np: XY UU Stage 1 - Reload [Salamence: BL | Next: DROPS!!!]

[Shiny Minun]

If blissey drops again I feel it will be a new chansey, raining full HP wishes on pretty much everything UU has to offer.

And with Mienshao (HJK baits protect) and heracross (usually choiced, also read by protect) being UU's only poster fighting types, I don't think it will be any better than chansey was.

OU has plenty of fighting types to deal with the blobs so they're not an issue but I just think they make teams way to resilient in UU.
Blissey wish heals 100% on 77 or under invested and up to 108 base HP uninvested this means that the wishes are

100% on Klefki, Forretress, M-Aggron and every non-HP invested offensive pokemon in the whole tier.
98% on M-Blastoise
92% on M-Ampharos
90% on Slowbro, Umbreon
88% on Invested base 100: Mew, suicune, Shaymin, Celebi
85% on Hippo

On the BL side of things

100% on uninvested Zygardes
85% on max HP zygarde

All the other BL are like sweepers so 100% on all of them too.

 

[Mew2]

If blissey drops again I feel it will be a new chansey, raining full HP wishes on pretty much everything UU has to offer.

And with Mienshao (HJK baits protect) and heracross (usually choiced, also read by protect) being UU's only poster fighting types, I don't think it will be any better than chansey was..

You forgot Machamp

 

[Shiny Minun]

You forgot Machamp

dynamic punch has a pp issue and Chansey constantly heals Champs counters.
he can spam confuse all he wants, he can only do that 8 times, so he only has 8 chances to take out blissey.with the wish-running she likes to do, I would call machamp a good play against blissey but its going to have to catch her off guard several times in the match and make sure to predict and not waste those punches.

especially with suicune around, pressure is real.

 

[Machi]

dynamic punch has a pp issue and Chansey constantly heals Champs counters.
he can spam confuse all he wants, he can only do that 8 times, so he only has 8 chances to take out blissey.with the wish-running she likes to do, I would call machamp a good play against blissey but its going to have to catch her off guard several times in the match and make sure to predict and not waste those punches.

especially with suicune around, pressure is real.

He also has knock off so it is not exactly wise to keep switching around like that since losing an item is not exactly fun, and if he ends up pressuring you to shuffle and removes multiple items you're the one at the disadvantage.

Regardless the very big difference between Blissey and Chansey is that Blissey can't actually wall both ends of the spectrum, whereas Chansey can thanks to Evolite. There are some calcs far back here somewhere but generally Blissey is more vulnerable to physical attacks than Chansey which makes all the difference. Course we still need to see how this performs in practice.

 

[Schpoonman]

This is going to sound like I'm out of my fucking mind, but I think Blissey is less of a problem than Chansey would be. Blissey gets the freedom of an item, including Lefties recovery, but she's also significantly less bulky than Chansey.

252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 357-421 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 489-576 (68.4 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

That is a very large gap in physical bulk, and it lets a lot of Pokemon more effectively take down Blissey. Unlike Chansey, you don't NEED to have Heracross, Mienshao, Keldeo, or Crawdaunt on your team in order to break Blissey (those last two were legal and effective Chansey stops when Chansey was UU, so bear with me on those). For example, let's look at a late game sweeper like Sharpedo.

252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 320-378 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 234-277 (33.2 - 39.3%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO

Simply put, Sharpedo will never break Chansey, but he has a chance to beat Blissey. That difference, with Blissey not being able to be a physical wall in a pinch, only a good special wall, makes her more balanced than Chansey was. Do I really want to see Blissey in UU? Fuck no, but I could live with it.

 

[Mew2]

dynamic punch has a pp issue and Chansey constantly heals Champs counters.
he can spam confuse all he wants, he can only do that 8 times, so he only has 8 chances to take out blissey.with the wish-running she likes to do, I would call machamp a good play against blissey but its going to have to catch her off guard several times in the match and make sure to predict and not waste those punches.

especially with suicune around, pressure is real.

Of course, if blissey ever drops to UU it will most likely be banded like her younger sister just some calcs to show her bulk.
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 321-378 (44.9 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Blissey can just stall with wish+ protect

252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 226-268 (31.6 - 37.5%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not even a 3HKO to a super effectve boosted hit comming from a 135 base special attack.

Finally just for the lolz:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 291-343 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Schpoonman]

Dugtrio is a horrible example to use. It won't be coming in when Blissey is at full health unless it's something hell of gimmicky like a SubLiechi set. What makes Blissey less broken than Chansey is its significantly lesser physical bulk. Chansey had no right switching or staying in on Darmanitan, but it could because Scarf Flare Blitz only barely 2HKO'd. Even Superpower fails to 2HKO from full unless you get absolutely maximum damage rolls on both hits.

Blissey physically (heh) cannot make these plays. She is still a damn effective special wall, at least as good as Florges, probably better thanks to not being afraid of Nidoking, but those random moderately powerful physical attacks take their toll, unlike with Chansey who was rarely 2HKO'd or better by any unboosted attack, period.

 

[Patrick1088]

Snorlax does a pretty good job checking volc if it comes down. It doesnt care about fiery dance or fire blast. It has the bulk to take the bug buzzes and giga drains.

Other than that you have mega aero, scarf shao with stone edge, bulky fire types ala arcanine, entei. Darmanitan,etc.

Jellicent is good on paper but has to watch out for giga drain.

There really isnt too many safe bets outside of those few. Revene killing can be tough especially since it can boost its speed. I was more pro volc in the beginning. Now, im leaning more towards pretty broken...

 

[Shiny Minun]

Snorlax can't touch bold pdef volcariona without boosting, it also has to beware of flame body burns (pdef set aims for these)
volc with no sp.atk investment only needs to get to +3 to 2HKO snorlax with bug buzz. (+4 or 5 for assault vest)

it does well against volc but I wouldn't call it a solid counter

Timid Volc can OHKO darma with HP Rock or ground at +1 which would actually be a good idea to carry what with the lack of things covering fire/ground, not to mention hitting other common potential switch in's like...
Arcenine - +1 252 SpA Volcarona Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arcanine: 170-200 (44.2 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Rotom-H - +1 252 SpA Volcarona Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-H: 140-166 (46 - 54.6%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Victini.+1 252 SpA Volcarona Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 202-238 (59.2 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Victini being the only one with a chance to kill it here, with v-create. However, defensive Volcarona can survive two v-creates if they roost the first one, being able to 2HKO victini with HP rock or bug buzz and being left at +1 with 12% HP to spare. (assuming Victini gets two max damage roles, you're more than likely to leave this with more than 20% tbh)

252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 231-273 (61.7 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. -1 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 280-331 (82.1 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I should also mention that volc is a base 100 so at +1 it outspeeds any scarfer that is lower than 100, which is pretty common in UU. it also speed ties with the range of base 100 scarfers we have.

As far as jellicent goes, I don't see how its dealing with volcarona, Volc can just continue to set up on you and your scalds get weaker and weaker every time, roosting off the minimal damage it does.

4 SpA Jellicent Scald vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 98-116 (31.5 - 37.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

And on the Blissey debate, I think she deserves a chance of anything, at least she is not borderline unkillable like chansey is

I still think that these giant wishes go to far in the tier, UU is full of sky high defense tanks but with lower HP, these tanks often don't have recovery moves of their own but with blissey healing things ful is the problem and its something no other wish passer does.

When you compare Blisseys 357 HP wishes to the next in line for HP heavy wish passer, Alomomola. It's 267 barely do as much, only healing 100% on base 64 HP or lower uninvested or a crazy 32 base invested.

So basically Shuckle and Uninvested Crawdaunt (BL), Heliolisk, Ninjask, Chandelure, Starmie. As apposed to the whole line up of S ranks that Blissey gives a "Second life" to

 

[Machi]

And on the Blissey debate, I think she deserves a chance of anything, at least she is not borderline unkillable like chansey is

I still think that these giant wishes go to far in the tier, UU is full of sky high defense tanks but with lower HP, these tanks often don't have recovery moves of their own but with blissey healing things ful is the problem and its something no other wish passer does.

When you compare Blisseys 357 HP wishes to the next in line for HP heavy wish passer, Alomomola. It's 267 barely do as much, only healing 100% on base 64 HP or lower uninvested or a crazy 32 base invested.

So basically Shuckle and Uninvested Crawdaunt (BL), Heliolisk, Ninjask, Chandelure, Starmie. As apposed to the whole line up of S ranks that Blissey gives a "Second life" to

Look while full HP wishes are annoying it certainly isn't why Chansey was such a pain to deal with it was primarily how Chansey could generally wall both ends of the spectrum since it took very exceptional physical attacks, aside from high STAB Fighting ones, to take her out. Blissey will definitely have a chance in the tier it is not as if it was speculated as an auto-BL the only drop down that is proving to be worrisome is Volcarona.

 

[Kingpoleon]

Look while full HP wishes are annoying it certainly isn't why Chansey was such a pain to deal with it was primarily how Chansey could generally wall both ends of the spectrum since it took very exceptional physical attacks, aside from high STAB Fighting ones, to take her out. Blissey will definitely have a chance in the tier it is not as if it was speculated as an auto-BL the only drop down that is proving to be worrisome is Volcarona.

Blissey also is broken by hazard damage less than Chansey because of leftovers. Regardless, I don't think Blissey will be proken. Why not?
Pros and Cons:
Pros:
- Great HP
- Good Special Defense
- Recovery
- Can attack on the special side( a little)
- Can effectively hold leftovers

Cons:
- Bad defense
- Fighting weakness
- No resists
- Easily broken by SubRoost, SubSplit, and Sub in general
- Minor hazard weakness

Yeah. While it has good Pros, the Cons are bad enough to barely make this a A/A- ranking. I really doubt it will be broken.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

What's so bad about AV Goodra? What would you do besides a bad Rain Dance + Rest strategy (Curse? Fun but Florges is everywhere)

Because I feel it's better off with a damage boosting item. Specs Draco Meteor hits hard as hell and is going to OHKO pretty much every special threat, you don't need to take a second or even third hit. And between Draco Meteor and Goodra's enourmous offensive movepool, not a lot can safely switch in. A Specs set of Draco Meteor / Sludge Wave / Focus Blast | Thunder Bolt / Flamethrower | Fire Blast, or something like that, has next to no safe switch ins and lets it handily beat most any special attacker or at least deal tons of damage to whatever switches in (sans Florges mostly.)

I've not used it UU obviously, but on paper I'm liking a Specs or Expert Belt set more. Just don't switch it into STAB Ice Beam lol, or Gardevoir/Florges.

If blissey drops again I feel it will be a new chansey, raining full HP wishes on pretty much everything UU has to offer.

And with Mienshao (HJK baits protect) and heracross (usually choiced, also read by protect) being UU's only poster fighting types, I don't think it will be any better than chansey was.

OU has plenty of fighting types to deal with the blobs so they're not an issue but I just think they make teams way to resilient in UU.
Blissey wish heals 100% on 77 or under invested and up to 108 base HP uninvested this means that the wishes are

100% on Klefki, Forretress, M-Aggron and every non-HP invested offensive pokemon in the whole tier.
98% on M-Blastoise
92% on M-Ampharos
90% on Slowbro, Umbreon
88% on Invested base 100: Mew, suicune, Shaymin, Celebi
85% on Hippo

On the BL side of things

100% on uninvested Zygardes
85% on max HP zygarde

All the other BL are like sweepers so 100% on all of them too.

Blissey isn't OP for its humungous wish bombs, but for beating pretty much every single special attacker 1v1. But unlike Chansey, it doesn't have a lot of physical bulk so it won't be so much of a cancer problem in UU.

 

[Verminator]

I think that if anything would make Blissey broken in UU, it's her ability to function in a core. While there's no Skamory down here to team up with her, I'm kind of interested in trying her out with Cofagrigus instead, as Coffinbro's typing and extreme physical bulk soundly beats more or less everything that can KO her (that I can think of from the top of my head,) while Blissey keeps him supplied with HP owing to Blissey's massive Wishes comboed with Cofag's low HP stat. Darmanitan might be a problem, I dunno. Need to run calcs.

Also, while I've rarely been a big fan of Blissey every time its reared its fat, stupid pink face in prior gens, I'm tentatively a little happy at the prospect of having something that can switch in safely to LO Nidoking. At least, until physical Nidoking becomes a big thing.

 

[Schpoonman]

Because I feel it's better off with a damage boosting item. Specs Draco Meteor hits hard as hell and is going to OHKO pretty much every special threat, you don't need to take a second or even third hit. And between Draco Meteor and Goodra's enourmous offensive movepool, not a lot can safely switch in. A Specs set of Draco Meteor / Sludge Wave / Focus Blast | Thunder Bolt / Flamethrower | Fire Blast, or something like that, has next to no safe switch ins and lets it handily beat most any special attacker or at least deal tons of damage to whatever switches in (sans Florges mostly.)

I've not used it UU obviously, but on paper I'm liking a Specs or Expert Belt set more. Just don't switch it into STAB Ice Beam lol, or Gardevoir/Florges.



Blissey isn't OP for its humungous wish bombs, but for beating pretty much every single special attacker 1v1. But unlike Chansey, it doesn't have a lot of physical bulk so it won't be so much of a cancer problem in UU.

252+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 329-387 (46 - 54.2%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 242-285 (34.3 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

A special attacker that should by all means beat the Blobs collectively one on one, but fails to because fucking Eviolite. The more I look at this the more I think that Blissey is not OP for UU. Again, for god's sake don't think this means I WANT Blissey in the tier, I like my HO thank you very much, but should she drop she belongs in the tier, and should not go BL like her fat-ass younger sister.

 

[thecrowing2k8]

Cofagrigus isn't ideal with all the Knock Off in the tier. Mega Absol, who is already MEvolved, can come in on Blissey and spam attacks with any mixed, all out attacking, and swords dance set. Cofagrigus can come in and take STAB Knock Off, or MAbsol can Swords Dance and it can't be hit by WoW since he didnt fall for Mummy.

This shell can use a Fairy type to round out the core like Florges or Granbull to make an annoying, defensive core. They each provide Cleric support and they hit you with Toxic or Thunder Wave respectively. Granbull also has Intimidate.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Actually another plausible partner for Blissey is Slowbro, who can tank Fighting type attacks aimed at Blissey, while not being very reliant on too much support in general due to Regenerator (he really only needs Aromatherapy). Unfortunately this core has a rather obvious Knock Off weakness.

A replacement for UU 'Skarmbliss" is Mega Aggron, and is actually a straight up upgrade to Aggron/Florges as Nidoking no longer shits all over this core. A Fighting resist is obviously welcome, so you can pull off something like AV Slowbro as a general mixed tank, while Aggron takes the physical hits and Blissey takes the special hits.

 

[Shiny Minun]

- Easily broken by SubRoost, SubSplit, and Sub in general

That is a bold statement considering she can carry seismic toss to deal with substitutes under base 100 HP
With Zygarde BL (at the moment) it leaves us with a bunch of things that don't often carry substitute, or invest in HP for that matter

Meloetta and other base 100's could cause her problems but again its full of things that don't usually invest in max HP like victini, Honchcrow or Drama up at 105. Going further up the list you've got hippo who has his moves slots full as it is.

I'm sure if blissey dropped down these pokes would start running sub for sure, but I remember the main issue of Chansey being you switching into a wish and then ANYTHING that could even survive ANY hit would now be against you at full HP most likely.

This becomes an issue when pokemon can jump in on perfectly predicted hits (IE: Most damaging against the switch in) and still be at full HP.

 

[EonX]

Shiny Minun , uh, you do realize that Kyurem only needs, like, 52 HP EVs to hit 404 HP. Pressure stalling is a thing and it's why Kyurem's best set in BW was SubRoost as it could effectively handle Blissey / Chansey without giving up a lot of offensive presence.

I know Blissey is going to drop at some point; it's only a matter of time, but I really don't look forward to it. That said, Blissey is not as stupidly bulky on both ends as Chansey is considering Eviolite just makes Chansey an evil bitch for anything that can't Pressure stall or boost with SD. With Blissey, many hard hitting physical attackers will 2HKO, at worst, while most Fighting-types are capable of OHKOing her rather handily. This will be especially true if Lucario drops with her considering Luke is immune to Toxic, has SD, and is capable of blasting many of Blissey's would-be partners with Crunch (Slowbro, Cress, Cofag) or even using a 2nd SD if Blissey tries to use Wish as it will be painfully obvious that a switch to one of these bulky Luke counters is coming in.

 

[Shiny Minun]

Shiny Minun , uh, you do realize that Kyurem only needs, like, 52 HP EVs to hit 404 HP. Pressure stalling is a thing and it's why Kyurem's best set in BW was SubRoost as it could effectively handle Blissey / Chansey without giving up a lot of offensive presence.

my response was only to sub in general, sorry. I'll bold that to make it more clean.

obviously blissey can't touch sub roost or sub seed or any of its variations.

 

[Kingpoleon]

That is a bold statement considering she can carry seismic toss to deal with substitutes under base 100 HP
With Zygarde BL (at the moment) it leaves us with a bunch of things that don't often carry substitute, or invest in HP for that matter

Meloetta and other base 100's could cause her problems but again its full of things that don't usually invest in max HP like victini, Honchcrow or Drama up at 105. Going further up the list you've got hippo who has his moves slots full as it is.

I'm sure if blissey dropped down these pokes would start running sub for sure, but I remember the main issue of Chansey being you switching into a wish and then ANYTHING that could even survive ANY hit would now be against you at full HP most likely.

This becomes an issue when pokemon can jump in on perfectly predicted hits (IE: Most damaging against the switch in) and still be at full HP.

Not really the point. SubSeed and SubPunch are the only other reasons to use Sub, and if you think Blissey beats them, I see no point in arguing. The thing is, so many special attackers can 2HKO a blissey, especially with a boost. Keldeo, M-Houndoom, and probably soon-to-be-unbanned Hydreigon(I think it hasn't tested yet...) all just use a Sacred Sword, Nasty Plots, or Superpower abilities to destroy that fat, ugly, pink blob-thing.

 

[Shiny Minun]

Not really the point. SubSeed and SubPunch are the only other reasons to use Sub, and if you think Blissey beats them, I see no point in arguing. The thing is, so many special attackers can 2HKO a blissey, especially with a boost. Keldeo, M-Houndoom, and probably soon-to-be-unbanned Hydreigon(I think it hasn't tested yet...) all just use a Sacred Sword, Nasty Plots, or Superpower abilities to destroy that fat, ugly, pink blob-thing.

A hydreigon set that can 2HKO blissey with super power is not a special attacking set. Not even adamant max attack can if she uses soft-boiled on the first hit, unless its... choice banded... hydreigon (can you hear me laughing?) And those two do not change how hard it is to deal with those giant wishes. Chansey did have way too much bulk but theres knock off literally everywhere it just makes more of your pokemon crucial to keep. The real problem was making teams practically unkillable by giving members "Free lives" and taking those nasty burns off.

Mega doom posses a slight problem, but can't 2HKO till +3, blissey has ample time to lay down the law with seismic toss, or switch to an appropriate counter (who now has full health btw, no matter what it switches into) Otherwise, dark pulse and fireblast are doing meh to blissey. If shes really scared she can run max def / sp.def, that wont really hurt her as a wish passer in UU, she is still miles MILES better than Alomomola and Umbreon wishes are tiny, they don't pose the same problem.

The only way I see you taking out Blissey with special attacks is hitting her soft underbelly (physical defense attacking special attacks) and ridiculous boosts she can prevent with S.Toss anyway. I mean at least if Blissey drops we'll have SOMETHING to counter Volcarona (haha)

 

[Machi]

The real problem was making teams practically unkillable by giving members "Free lives" and taking those nasty burns off.

Considering that one of the more effective means of dealing with Chansey was essentially wearing her down with hazards I can't say all too often that her team mates from my experience necessarily managed to get that second lease in life all too often, in fact chances are even if you cannot break Chansey you know full well that is usually better to nonetheless prepare to hit the potential switch in so as to prevent wish passing. Wish passing IMO is quite overrated because it is much more easy to deal with and I don't agree that it is what pushes the pink blob over the edge, I maintain my stance regarding her defensive prowess on both sides of the spectrum being what makes her particularly infuriating. Frankly, given that most sweepers aren't exactly invested in HP in the first place most wishes running around right now from Jirachi/Vaporeon/Umbreon/Florges more or less accomplishes the same thing that I can't say this is all too new to deal with.

 

[kokoloko]

chansey wan't a problem, blissey won't be a problem.

you guys need to learn that you don't always need force to beat x mon. sometimes the threat of setup is enough to force them out. i remember this one team in early bw uu in which my main way of dealing with chansey was by setting up spikes on it with roserade, then rest looping its seismic toss away if i had to.

however that doesn't mean we're at a shortage of shit that can straight up wreck either one of them anyway. we still have heracross, mienshao, reuniclus, suicune, mew, sableye, subsplit chandelure... and a fuckton of other shit.

they still have the same problem as shit like alomomola and eviolite gligar/dusclops etc: they have no offensive presence. the blobs can kind of deal because they're so massively bulky that they don't /have/ to heal every time they come in, so they can do other shit on the turns they force shit out, like SR/status, but that's hardly game-breaking.

CM blissey might be cool, though.

 

[Ununhexium]

I actually used CM blissey on a joke team and it actually pulled weight. Just run some Def EVs so it doesn't get wrecked.

 

[Shiny Minun]

I don't think you guys are seeing the impact that these giant wishes have on the tier, giving a free life to potentially any counter to any counter blissey has is the larger deal. Since there are so few things that in inherently threaten her, making a team with Doublade (which can easily set up to +4 on heracross and mienshao given they are not banded SE attacks fail to 2HKO, even with LO) grabbing other things to cover the few things that give blissey a "Hard time" makes it extremely hard to step on a blissey wish supported team, if her team is looking healthy (which most of the time it is with those giant wishes) she can protect and heal herself up, the only way you can pressure a blissey or chansey is being in BEFORE she wishes. Which can be extremely difficult with how bulky she is and the amount of things she straight up walls.

I could go into detail about every counter listed but I hope you get my point.