Lower Tiers BW NU Viability Rankings

[Punchshroom]

CB Kanga cannot make use of its priority as well, which is one of its main arguments for its placing in Top-S. However, being able to spam CB Normal attacks with less repercussion than other Normal-types is appealing, though the likes of Zangoose, Tauros and Ursaring can threaten the same level of power, more/equal speed, and can use their coverage moves to immediately threaten the switch-in, unlike Kanga who has to predict if she wants to hit them.

 

[TCTphantom]

Id like to nominate Hypno for B Rank. Hypno is a fantastic special wall. With Hypno, I have survived attackers like NP Jynx and Specs Charizard. Hypno can stall them both out with Wish+ Protect, or paralyze them, leading to them being crippled for an entire match. Hypno also is a great supporter as well, as paralysis and Wish are always welcome. However, perhaps the best part about our Pedophile-esce pokemon is his ability to counter Jynx, who several people, including myself, would debate as the best pokemon in NU at the moment. With all these traits, I feel it deserves a little higher than C Rank.

Truth be told, it does have its faults, but hey, almost everything does. Not to mention, unlike Lickilicky, you don't fear Primeape and Sawk, who are outstanding pokemon.

 

[Nozzle]

Get Rapidash out of Low B.
Mid B would only be reasonable for something with such nice speed, not to mention how great fire is as an offensive type atm. The CB set is a great late game cleaner and so is Sunny Day (who also has solarbeam, which does about 70% against momo) which is also more rewarding but a tad harder to pull off. It actually has some decent-ish bulk too allowing to live some neutral moves. It's attack stat isnt great but good enough.

Mid-B

(I could push for top-b but mid seems reasonable)

 

[Raseri]

Get Rapidash out of Low B.
Mid B would only be reasonable for something with such nice speed, not to mention how great fire is as an offensive type atm. The CB set is a great late game cleaner and so is Sunny Day (who also has solarbeam, which does about 70% against momo) which is also more rewarding but a tad harder to pull off. It actually has some decent-ish bulk too allowing to live some neutral moves. It's attack stat isnt great but good enough.

Mid-B

(I could push for top-b but mid seems reasonable)

Rapidash is one of the most suicidal Pokemon there is. It's main STAB requires Choice Band to do much of anything, without it its way to weak. Flare Blitz Recoil adds up realyl fast when youre SR weak, Rapidash will be lucky to do much most matches. It's also frail as fuck, low b seems like a good place for it.

 

[Lasagne]

I've tried to use Rapidash on many teams, and it never really did much except die quickly. As Raseri said, it needs Band to do any real damage, which rapidly wears away at its HP by using Flare Blitz. Add in the weakness to rocks and how frail it is, and you have a Pokemon that won't be staying around very long at all. If I was to push for any change for Rapidash, I'd say Top C. But I think its fine where it is in Low B.

 

[watashi]

i wasn't too impressed with how the b tier looked so i wrote up this pastebin really quickly. not gonna go over everything in details and i might be repeating some things that already have been said in this thread but if anyone has any objections then i'll gladly go over my opinions with them. http://pastebin.com/QZfw1Mxj

 

[Punchshroom]

swanna -> mid b
too unreliable, frail, weak to sr. it hits hard but not /that/ hard so should be demoted

gorebyss -> top b / low a
sets up on common walls, mainly metang and alomomola. still very dangerous and not as prepared for anymore. a lot of people use jynx to check it and die to signal beam

shiftry -> top b
mandibuzz sucks and this thing would be like a rank if not for it but it still does a lot of work and has like barely any counters

volbeat -> top c
weather is not that good and it sucks outside of providing weather support.

zebstrika -> top c
this thing is really weak and frail. all it has is speed but it doesn't really revenge kill anything notible in the metagame that other pokemon don't.

combusken -> mid b
a lot of teams lack good counters to it and it can quickly overwhelm the opponent with its speed while not giving a fuck about kangaskhan revenging it. it is similar to swanna in that it hits really hard but misses a lot. the eviolite swords dance set has decent bulk and can hit hard as well if left unchecked.

simisage -> top c
doesn't really have a niche compared to the other simi bros due to charizard being in the tier. it is sr weak, lacks useful resistsances, and really frail.

Swanna is still useful for Rain teams by swiftly removing Grass-types and shrugging off their status, or even go solo with SubRoost to combat offensive teams or RainRest to waste stall, operating with its good dual STABs. It is held back by its low stats, especially its base 87 offenses and bad defenses, though access to 2 forms of recovery and above average 97 base speed are still workable. I'd say its good dual STABs can still place it in Top B.

Much agreed with Byss, it can set up easily on the numerous hazard setters of the tier, even Scolipede by virtue of base 105 defense. Scarfers can still outrun it, but it can employ Substitute to block status if need be and prevent revenge kills, and can run Signal Beam to destroy Jynx and Ludicolo and have solid 2-move coverage. Low A from me too.

Yeah I was interested in Shiftry too until the vulture came swooping along, meaning pretty much anything Shiftry does will be blocked by Buzz in some way (+2 Normal Gem Explosion??), but its powerful attacks, decent coverage and powerful Sucker Punch can threaten offensive and defensive teams alike, and has Early Bird to play insane mindgames with Jynx looking to avoid Sucker Punch. Its frailty and exploitable typing is a letdown though. Top B from me.

Volbeat may only work on weather teams, but does provide near unparalleled support, with moves like Encore, T-Wave, a slow U-turn and Glow/SubPass to give the weather teams even more of an upper hand, amd can take Grass, Ground and Fighting attacks in a pinch, something Liepard can't do. Low B from me.

Kick this Zebra down, its average power is usually not worth the huge speed, as it can only KO a selective amount of targets if it doesn't want to be KOed, 'Sneasel syndrome' if I do say so myself. Volt Switch is a plus for Zeb as it can wear down its targets for a KO without being hit itself, but its teammates must be ready to take the opponents' attacks constantly as Zeb will be doing this often. Top C as well.

Combusken can quickly turn a game around if you take your eyes off it for even a second. Just because it's an NFE, doesn't mean its dual base 120 base power STABs off base 85 Special Attack and a likely LO boost won't hurt (it is as strong as Seismitoad's Hydro Pump by comparison). Its dual STABs are not easily resisted either, and with Speed Boost has the potential to roll right through most offensive teams. If the shaky accuracy is a turn off, using Swords Dance is an option, with Eviolite as the item of choice for easier setup, with SD somewhat making up for the LO boost. Physical Ken is somewhat conflicted with its Fire STAB though: " use Flare Blitz for crazy damage + crazy recoil or Fire Punch for reliable Fire STAB but is weaker than Sky Uppercut?" Oh, and with Protect and a Sucker Punch resistance, Combusken is one of the few sweepers to have little trouble with Kangaskhan, which in itself is a valuable trait to have. The final move is filler, with Substitute being handy against opponents predicting Protect or a coverage move of some sort. Mid-B from me, and not Top because of accuracy/ boosting issues.

FLCL, you meant Simisear, you fail :P Agreed with Top C though because Charizard's immediate power and recovery is often more useful than Simi's marginally higher speed and Nasty Plot which is hard to setup. The gradual shift to bulkier teams can allow Nasty Plot Simi to shine though, but even then Charizard can still shine brighter with Solar Power, so there's that.

 

[Lasagne]

Id like to nominate Hypno for B Rank. Hypno is a fantastic special wall. With Hypno, I have survived attackers like NP Jynx and Specs Charizard. Hypno can stall them both out with Wish+ Protect, or paralyze them, leading to them being crippled for an entire match. Hypno also is a great supporter as well, as paralysis and Wish are always welcome. However, perhaps the best part about our Pedophile-esce pokemon is his ability to counter Jynx, who several people, including myself, would debate as the best pokemon in NU at the moment. With all these traits, I feel it deserves a little higher than C Rank.

Truth be told, it does have its faults, but hey, almost everything does. Not to mention, unlike Lickilicky, you don't fear Primeape and Sawk, who are outstanding pokemon.

I don't think Hypno is worthy of Low B. It can be a fun special wall, but it is rather disappointing physically, and will struggle to take many hits on that side of the spectrum. It is, as you say, a reliable Jynx counter, but that's about it. It might be able to take a hit from a Specs Charizard, but it certainly doesn't do a good job at walling it, as you are most likely going to be the one switching in, so unless you get lucky and your opponent misses, you have one dead Hypno. Also it does not beat Sawk and Primeape, as the former can fire off a powerful Banded Earthquake, which does a shit ton of damage. The latter can easily U-Turn out of a dangerous situation, dealing massive damage to Hypno in the process. If enough people pushed it, I'd accept Hypno in Top C, but once C Rank is sorted, I'd probably say it deserves its place in Mid C Rank, if only because it can beat Jynx.

 

[vyomov]

I'd like to nominate Skuntank for A-Rank.
Frankly speaking, it surprises me that Skuntank is still B-Rank.
It's 3rd in the June 1850 Stats, something that speaks volumes about it.
Skuntank can easily beat out most Psychic types in the tier with Sucker Punch + Pursuit.
With only one weakness(which is easily covered with a fighting type) and 4 good resists, Skuntank certainly shouldn't be B-Rank.

 

[Raseri]

Changes:

Kangaskhan down to Mid S from Top S
Scolipede up to Top S from Mid S
Seismitoad down to Top A from Low S
Exeggutor up to Low A from B

Mandibuzz is still under discussion, I am thinking Low A right now
Also what about Sawk for Low S? Lots of counters but it does its job so well.

:>

 

[Punchshroom]

Low A seems a bit low for a poke whose bulk is comparable to Musharna's and isn't plagued by absolute crap speed, allowing Mandibuzz to use Taunt and Roost well. While her most effective set is becoming fairly standard, other neat move options such as U-turn and Knock Off can still be used, broadening the variety of teams Buzz can fit on. She fits best on balance and still performs well in stall, serving as the team's panic button (by virtue of Foul Play to KO something like Zangoose, SD Samurott or Swellow) and is the best Golurk switch-in we have, which is excellent when considering its usage. Thanks to her bulk and recovery, she can easily stall out threats and when properly invested, can take hits no other Flying-type would ever dream of taking (like Ice Punch, Stone Edge and Thunderbolt, and mind you that can all be done with the same EV spread). I find Mandibuzz to not be setup fodder for a lot of things and isn't easily brought down by status, because Taunt and Foul Play go a long way. In fact, a Mandibuzz paired with a Heal Bell user is one of the trickier/harder things to KO in NU: either you hammer away at her with your strongest moves like you would against an Eelektross, or exploit her SR weakness to ease the task of bringing her down, but keep in mind that Mandibuzz isn't particularly easy to force out, as we're staring down a Flying-type that can take on a Eelektross and/or Carracosta one-on-one (or hell, even consectively!) if she has to, if that wasn't enough indication to how self sufficient she can be. I'd still only give her a small bump to Mid-Rank, because her overall lack of resists (bar Golurk) means she is often relying on her bulk to take attacks, and she doesn't offer that much team support.

As a final note, when Buzz was still RU my Archeops of all things struggled to take her out, I mean damn, that's Musharna-esque bulk right there.

 

[Infernis]

I'd have to agree with Sawk for Low-S. Golurk can punch pretty hard, Rampardos can ram through walls with its head, but only Sawk has the combination of speed and power to decimate even defensive behemoths, and woe betide any frailer Pokemon that Sawk can outspeed. Mandibuzz may be fast for a wall, but either Close Combat or Stone Edge will tear right through Mandibuzz on the switch. Vileplume may have the typing to resist Close Combat, but Ice Punch will wreck it. Only those walls are are truly outstanding in NU can withstand Sawk, which is after all why they are considered to be good walls. There's not a long list. Musharna, Alomomola, and Tangela spring to mind, and there aren't many others.

By the way, I've tried a joke Sawk set out a couple times as a Musharna lure, and it's hilarious. Use Bulk Up on the switch, Fling an Iron Ball. If you've got rocks up, you've a decent chance to OHKO Musharna. If you live, you have a CB boost and the ability to switch moves. Gimmicky, situational, but oh so possible.

EDIT: Sawk is beaten by Jynx pretty handily usually, which is a bummer. Custap is a fun workaround, but again berry gimmicky.

 

[Lasagne]

I'm on the edge with Sawk honestly. If this was the start of Stage 9, I would have said that it should stay Top A, because I considered it and Primeape to be on par with each other, just used for different roles. Now, however, I do feel that Sawk has more of an impact on the metagame. Its amazing wallbreaking power is unequaled in NU, and there are only a few Pokemon that can straight up counter Sawk. These Pokemon include Musharna, Alomomola, Tangela, and Misdreavus to an extent. One of the reasons a lot of these Pokemon are so popular is just their ability to beat Sawk, which speaks volumes about its dominance. They are all good Pokemon anyway, but the fact that they can beat Sawk is just so incredibly useful. Sawks speed is probably its biggest problem, as base 85 means it struggles to outrun threats like Jynx, Primeape and Kangaskhan, which can be very detrimental to its survival. It has 2 great abilities in Sturdy and Mold Breaker, though the latter is generally the preferred option, as it allows Sawk to hit Misdreavus with Earthquake despite Levitate, break through Golems sturdy and OHKO it, and just kill lots of things it normally wouldn't. Choice Band is almost always the item of choice, as it increases Sawks wallbreaking power greatly. Because of its unfortunate speed, Sawk almost always runs Adamant, which gives it more punch in exchange for less speed, since the speed doesn't really matter too much at that point.

Overall Sawk is a really solid wallbreaker, and kills pretty much everything in sight. This gives it a Low S Rank spot imo.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I'd be cool with moving Sawk to S-Rank. It's arguably the best wallbreaker in the tier, having unrivaled power in its CC, and can just tear shit apart. I'd say that it's good enough that I'd go for it as a wallbreaker of choice. As said, I'd say that most Sawk counters have arisen to power simply to handle Sawk; Musharna's great, but walling Sawk is basically one of its best assets. It's also incredibly useful as a tool to prevent SR from going up on your side of the field; CB+Mold Breaker pretty much destroys most SR leads such as Bastiodon, Golem, Probopass, etc. It has a lot of power, plus some useful coverage options in Stone Edge, Ice Punch, and EQ, so it's definitely not short on coverage. It's rather disappointing Speed wise for this current metagame, but it's still an amazing mon. S-Rank imo.

 

[Hot N Cold]

Nominating Mothim for (low or mid maybe?) C-rank, is slow, frail and weak to Stealth Rock x4 which makes an awful pokemon but is strong, a decent wallbreaking being an effective lure and thanks to Choice Specs + Tinted lens doesnt need predict like another wallbreaker mons.

Some damage calcs:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Mothim Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arbok: 89.69 - 105.72%

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mothim Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pinsir: 95.57 - 112.91%

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Mothim Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mawile: 101.97 - 120.39%

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mothim Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Metang: 47.53 - 56.48%

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Mothim Bug Buzz vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Mantine: 50.17 - 59.58%

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Mothim Bug Buzz vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Klang: 51.92 - 61.4%

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Mothim Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garbodor: 75.82 - 89.4%

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Mothim Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-S: 75.93 - 89.62%

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Mothim Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sawk: 84.53 - 99.31%

 

[Punchshroom]

Mothim is plagued by low speed and defenses, which already dooms many pokemon of the same trait, but its poor defensive typing easily seals it. Specs Mothim might be unresisted, but poor speed and defenses mean that most pokes that survive its attack can often KO right back, like Mantine's Air Slash, Garbo's Rock Blast, Klang's +1 Gear Grind, hell Mawile can do some damage with Iron Head + Sucker Punch. Honestly I don't know why you aren't using Quiver Dance, since it grants Mothim the same power boost and newfound speed....which numerous opponents can still outrun because Modest +1 Mothim is outrun by positive base 110s, while Timid +1 Mothim is still outsped by Jolly Swellow. Need I mention every Scarfer that outspeeds Mothim naturally, a good deal of which can outspeed even +2 Mothim. Did I mention it's SR weak? Yeah that's a thing.

I don't get why you're bothering with Mothim when you have Butterfree, who is faster, also has Tinted Lens or Sleep Powder which is boosted by Compoundeyes, greatly easing setup and can stop SR leads; or Masquerain, who has Intimidate to also ease setup, coverage moves such as Hydro Pump and Ice Beam in its movepool, and can Baton Pass the boosts away. Mothim simply has no place in the meta.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Mothim has a higher special attack stat than all the other bug/flying-types, but I agree with Punchshroom: there isn't a reason to use this over them. Mothim has to switch out often due to it being choice locked, and having low speed and defenses leaving it vulnerable to being killed the next turn. When compounded with SR weakness, Mothim is bound to get worn down. On the other hand, Mothim is pretty outclassed as a Quiver Dance user since Butterfree and Masquerain have utility to go along with it (namely status, Intimidate and pass). It does hit switches hard but that's pretty much all it does, I don't see a reason why I should use it over any other wallbreaker because unlike Mothim, they can do the job numerous times over.

 

[Hot N Cold]

I never mentioned Mothim like Quiver Dance user which i agree that is outclassed by Buttefree (Sleep Powder) and Masquerain (Baton Pass), i mentioned Specs Mothim which just hits harder than them and doesnt need a turn to use QD like Masquerain and Buterfree , while needs less prediction and beats stuff that Buterfree for example dont beat them like Primeape Scarf that is on everywhere, in this case in the best option you need run Air Slash (dont run this w/e) and predicting the right attack.
While Mothim Specs against Primeape:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Mothim Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Primeape: 259-306 (95.57 - 112.91%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

You kill Primeape and just spamming Bug Buzz which you need less prediction (none?); are different at least.

 

[Punchshroom]

Mothim's bad 66 base speed means he's not going to threaten many offensive mons at all, and a Choice mon with a 4x SR weakness has better net some good rewards. Your 'reward' for putting up with this slow, frail Bug is unresisted 90 base power STAB off + 1 94 base Special Attack....wait that's it? Does his STABs have good coverage against the tier? Yes, but most of those targets are faster than Mothim and can kill him in a heartbeat. Even if you do somehow manage to snag a kill you'll be lucky to get any more because between his horrid SR weakness, bad speed and common weaknesses, Mothim is simply not built to last, and the impact he leaves is nowhere near worth the hassle for a pokemon that lasts for ~2-3 turns in an entire game. Seriously, Charizard looks way more appealing, because it threatens much of the same mons Mothim does, is much more powerful with 120 base power STAB off 109 Special Attack, actually outspeeds most of what it can threaten, and can at least take advantage of SR with Blaze, whereas Mothim is outright shredded by it. I'd even go to say Mothim needs Quiver Dance just to have a better chance of success, and considering he faces competition for that role as you said, yeah...

Or you know, use a more productive Bug-type that can sweep better than Mothim can 'wallbreak' (it can outright lose to most pokes bulky enough to take the hits anyway), or a wallbreaker that isn't near dead just from switching in twice into battle unscathed.

 

[Dell]

Wanted to talk about Mandibuzz a bit.

I honestly don't find myself raving about the idea of placing Mandibuzz as high as Low/Mid A-rank, and I feel that Top B-rank appears to be the more enticing of an accurate placing for it. While Punchshroom did list a lot of facts about its utility, I think we're viewing too much of what its capable of on paper and not taking too much in account of the circumstances on practice. For example, the presence of Stealth Rock heavily limits Mandibuzz's defensive capabilities in such variety of ways, turning potential 3HKO's into actual 2HKO's from a lot of offensive Pokemon that aren't Psychic-types such as Charizard. This means that hazards in general would in turn greatly deter Mandibuzz's ability to switch into and check threats. While Mandibuzz is able to stall a lot of Pokemon, it does have a limiting moveset that it has to utilize in order to put those capabilities into its best effect. It doesn't really have much room to forgo its important moveslots of Roost, Taunt, Foul Play, or even Toxic in placement of other mentioned utility options like Knock Off, U-turn, or Whirlwind. Knock Off in itself is a bit of a drag for what Mandibuzz normally likes to do, since it usually wants to make its turns of its utility much more worthwhile than that to beat various threats 1v1. U-turn is likewise viable to provide some steady momentum, but the presence of this move also tends to make Stealth Rock a bit more of a problem for Mandibuzz, as it is forced to switch out upon each use and take even more damage. Whirlwind's probably the best bet for a filler out of these options, allowing Mandibuzz to phaze stuff and works reasonably well with Taunt so that you don't get statused on the process. Either way, I think that Toxic is Mandibuzz's most viable filler option as it is necessary towards adding to the win condition of stalling Pokemon out, which is one of the things that it does best besides stallbreaking.

Referencing Mandibuzz as a "panic button" when talking about its use of Foul Play doesn't necessarily seem like a valid phrase when it isn't like Mandibuzz can just switch into most powerful physical attackers not named Golurk repeatedly and safely use Foul Play without having to worry about being 2HKO'd. It is also worth noting that it faces a lot of competition with Golbat in general, who matches up better against most physical attackers thanks to its better defensive typing, bulk, and speed that allows it to matchup against physical threats and slower Pokemon better. Mandibuzz's typing is only superior when facing Psychic-types, while Leftovers can be useful at times. Also, I'm not sure about the mention of being able to take on Eelektross and Carracosta when Mandibuzz is unable to even match-up well at all against those two.

In short, in order to get Mandibuzz to work, it is crippled in the fact that Stealth Rock makes it so that it just makes a pretty significant difference towards whether it walls something to death or just gets soundly defeated. Mandibuzz also doesn't have as much variety as one expect because of how important most of its standard options are to best stand out. With these shortcomings, I'd say that top B rank is fine for the vulture.

 

[Infernis]

Also, I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but Mandibuzz can't switch into CB Golurk repeatedly. Also, switching into even a non-CB Dynamic Punch can be dangerous. (Especially since a Dynamic Punch+SR->Ice Punch->Ice Punch can be killer, so you only need that first confusion to work if you outspeed.

252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Golurk Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 218-258 (51.53 - 60.99%) -- 93.36% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golurk Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 242-286 (57.21 - 67.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And even if it has enough speed EVs to outrun Golurk, it's pretty much crippled for the rest of the match if you have a relatively fast Pokemon that can finish it off before it roosts. This said, I still have no idea where to place Mandibuzz because I haven't used it much myself.

I'm off to make a team with Mothim to see what it even does. I've never seen anyone use it on the ladder, and I've never used it myself. (I've seen Heatmor more!)

 

[Punchshroom]

It's true, Mandibuzz's walling capability is diminished when you consider her SR weakness, relative lack of resists and limited support movepool. But the point still stands that Buzz can make use of what she has very well. Part of the problem stems from when you want to switch something in to deal with Buzz: you want to either cripple her with status, Trick or just some really powerful move. However, Mandibuzz can stop status with Taunt, and her bulk makes it marvelously difficult to bring down otherwise. Direct super effective / boosted blows can wear down Mandibuzz, but most of these users do not appreciate a Foul Play to the face, while slower attackers (Golem, Regice, Eel) risk being outstalled by Buzz. Trick can be a nasty surprise, however either its users can actually force Mandibuzz out (Jynx, Rotoms) or even risk giving themselves away (Now why would you switch a Haunter/Gardevoir into a healthy Mandibuzz?). Like Musharna, Mandibuzz can be such a pain to KO if you do not prepare for it. Am I in no way suggesting it for S-Rank, because of flaws aforementioned, but something as self-sufficient as Buzz IMO deserves better than B, because she can take attacks like you wouldn't believe...

...which brings me to my next points. Firstly, the 'panic button' scenario. What I mean by this is for when an opponent manages to catch you off guard, or sneak a boost right under your nose. You might have to sac your pokemon, but I find Mandibuzz to be able to prevent you from sacking your whole team. For example, a Mandibuzz with some (not even max) SDef investment can survive a +2 Ice Beam from Gorebyss, +2 LO Weather Ball from Victreebel after SR, and even Charizard's Solar Powered Sun boosted Fire Blast or LO Jynx's Ice Beam. This same Mandibuzz can then go on to survive attacks like CB Iron Fist Golurk's Ice Punch after SR, Adamant Zangoose's Facade, Sawk's CB Stone Edge, Samurott's +2 Torrent LO Waterfall, and Scolipede's +2 Swarm Megahorn, then respond in kind to these threats with either Whirlwind or Foul Play. Jesus, that vulture can take some abuse. However, you will have noticed that SR is mentioned only a couple of times, as the others are attacks Buzz would've tanked had she not lost 25% of her health on the switch. Then again, while she can't take these absurdly powerful blows as well if the Rocks are up, but she can still shrug off anything weaker. She also doesn't severely cripple offensive threats like Musharna's T-Wave can, but her STAB (Foul Play) isn't as easy to exploit, since most of its offensive resists (Fighting) have meaty Attack, so it's not necessarily a free switch-in for them. Foul Play also doesn't weaken in the face of Bulk Up/Coil, while a wall who uses other attacks always has to be wary of Calm Mind as well as the aforementioned two. In fact, sweepers that boost their Attack stats only are completely inadvised to do so in order to avoid essentially pwning themselves. My mentions of Eel and Carracosta is to prove how Mandibuzz can hold her own against them. Eel's naturally high Attack makes it susceptible to a 3HKO from Foul Play, while Carracosta can potentially defeat Buzz with LO Stone Edge + Aqua Jet, but a strike from Foul Play can dash its chances for a sweep (more defensive Carracostas can actually be beaten by Toxic + Roost + Foul Play), let's see Golbat do all that? Taunt can even stop them from setting up Coils or Shell Smashes, further making it hard to defeat Mandibuzz.

Reply to Infernis: what makes Mandibuzz different from previous Golurk switch-ins is that a) she can outspeed it with little investment, and thus Roost the damage away to potentially dodge a super effective blow, and 2) she can OHKO if not 2HKO Golurk immediately, the former of which Tangela cannot do without Leaf Storm. Mandibuzz either threatens to KO if Lurk stays in, or Buzz can heal while Golurk retreats so that she can tango with it again. The latter strategy is less reliable than Regenarator, but considering Alomo and Tangela risk being 2HKOed by Lurk on the switch before they can respond, which Mandibuzz has no issue with, makes it quite the check for the ghost robot.

Willing to tone it down to Low-A, but still opting for mid-A.

 

[Infernis]

Out of curiosity, which EV spread are you referring to in that list of attacks Mandibuzz can survive? Because it seems to me that no one Mandibuzz set can survive all those hits. This is what maximum SpD Mandibuzz takes from +2 Gorebyss and Sun Charizard:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Gorebyss Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 367-432 (86.76 - 102.12%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO even before rocks.
252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz in sun: 291-343 (68.79 - 81.08%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

This same Mandibuzz would take...

252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 336-396 (79.43 - 93.61%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Golurk Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 300-354 (70.92 - 83.68%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 301-355 (71.15 - 83.92%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Samurott Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 273-321 (64.53 - 75.88%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

and wouldn't have the speed to outrun any of them, which means it could die or be forced out even without rocks. It certainly can't take any of them after an ice beam, and it would be hard-pressed to survive after even a LO Sun Weather Ball from Victreebel (~40% damage). Even if it manages to survive and Whirlwind out its attacker, what's it going to do at 25% health? Even Scarfstrika can deal that. 252+ Attack Ninjask can do that. If it forces something fast into play, it's still dead meat or beating a hasty retreat.

Contrarily, a Mandibuzz that can reliably beat those physical attackers is going to get flattened by both Charizard and Gorebyss. I have no idea when any Mandibuzz could take any two of these attacks in succession: many of these attackers could get a 2HKO even if Mandibuzz manages to roost. Moreover, if it's Roosting it's not hitting back with Foul Play; it's just going to get worn down.

 

[vyomov]

Requoting this because it got lost in the discusssion:

I'd like to nominate Skuntank for A-Rank.
Frankly speaking, it surprises me that Skuntank is still B-Rank.
It's 3rd in the June 1850 Stats, something that speaks volumes about it.
Skuntank can easily beat out most Psychic types in the tier with Sucker Punch + Pursuit.
With only one weakness(which is easily covered with a fighting type) and 4 good resists, Skuntank certainly shouldn't be B-Rank.

So what do you guys think re Skuntank? Should it be A or should it stay B?

 

[Raseri]

Psychics arent nearly as prominent as they used to be, and the best one (jynx) can beat skuntank with lovely kiss. Skuntank fails to counter the most common psychic, and many of the others have ways to get around him (baton pas, focus blast). This as well as Skuntank generally being weak make it more of a b rank threat than an A rank threat.