NU Viability Rankings

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I think rhydon should drop from A to A- or even B+. Now I know rhydon has a great offensive presence and is a good stealth rock setter but it is threaten many of the top tier threats such as emboar, rotom-c, slowbro, barbaracle etc. I know some of these need rhydon weakened and cant switchin on it but even pokemon like sceptile ,vanilluxe, vikavolt ,virzion, any many more all threat rhydon. i think steelix has better typing as a stealth rocker and lefties for passive recovery while rhydon is weak some of the common types in nu which includes fighting grass and water and has to hold an eviolite. It checks normal and flying types yeah but that doesnt outweigh its weakenesses. Its still an offensive threat nonetheless and a good pokemon for certain teams who needs its capabilities. edit: yes i know virizion can switchin on rhydon my bad
 
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You guys forgot to put Miltank on the rankings.
To avoid making this a one liner.

I think rhydon should drop from A to A- or even B+. Now I know rhydon has a great offensive presence and is a good stealth rock setter but it is threaten many of the top tier threats such as emboar, rotom-c, slowbro, barbaracle etc. I know some of these need rhydon weakened and cant switchin on it but even pokemon like sceptile ,vanilluxe, vikavolt ,virzion, any many more all threat rhydon. i think steelix has better typing as a stealth rocker and lefties for passive recovery while rhydon is weak some of the common types in nu which includes fighting grass and water and has to hold an eviolite. It checks normal and flying types yeah but that doesnt outweigh its weakenesses. Its still an offensive threat nonetheless and a good pokemon for certain teams who needs its capabilities. edit: yes i know virizion can switchin on rhydon my bad
While I don't completely disagree with the fact that steelix is the better rocker, almost every threat you listed (sceptile, vanilluxe, vikavolt, emboar, rotom-c), steelix could not switch in safely either. Tbh I think the more proper nom is making Steelix A+ as it has always been the staple glue mon that has just the right typing and other utilities to fit like 80% of team builds.

Regice for Unranked/C-
Mudsdale for Unranked/C-
Wormadam Trash for Unranked/maybe even negative unranked


While one can argue that these mons are already licking at the bottom of the barrel, they really don't have much use. Mudsdale is probably the most forgivable of the bunch but its main set being choice band blows because its STAB move has a very common immunity and its resttalk sets are actually bad. Regice got saved a few pages ago from being unranked however having boltbeam very hardly matters when vanilluxe has freeze dry and its main set of attraction being rock polish is still very awkward to fit in team builds as it's not quite a wallbreaker with only base 100 sp atk nor is it quite a great setup mon with no way to boost its sp atk. Wormadam is actually garbage *laugh track*. Ok jokes aside people like to bring up "oh but this is a vanilluxe switch in that can get my rocks up! or "this is a good resttalk quiver dancer!" First of all, miltank and piloswine can both rock up on the ice cream's ass and can check other things too with actual other utility (miltank can heal and piloswine can do damage). Resttalk quiver is just lol. Fried by fires after a boost and can't even fight back. Use vivillion, liligant or even jynx.
 
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Eternally

quack
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A+ > S: Vanilluxe is arguably the most terrifying Pokemon to face in the tier right now, and it has continuously proven itself in high level tour matches to be a very low drawback Pokemon with incredible return. Freeze-Dry + Blizzard is basically all the coverage it needs, giving it room to use things like Flash Cannon (for Cryogonal / Piloswine) and HP Ground (Togedemaru / 2HKOing Emboar). More importantly however, is the sheer lack of sturdy, viable Ice-type resists we have in the tier. Incineroar and Magmortar are easily broken down with Stealth Rock up, Hariyama is pressured to switch in multiple times throughout games, taking Hail, Blizzard, Hazards, and most likely having to check other Pokemon along the way. Then you've got more reliable 'checks' like Cryogonal and Piloswine which get 2HKOed by Flash Cannon, although admittedly they do make decent enough soft checks against the Scarf set. It might seem a but picky, but the fact that 4 of the 5 mentioned Ice-types have no form of recovery makes it very difficult to call them durable, consistent ways of stopping Vanilluxe, while Cryogonal does an alright job, but only fits on specific teams. Aside from Specs having very few switch-ins, there's the Scarf set which rips through offensive teams with Modest Blizzards, with common Ice-type resists on this archetype such as Barbaracle and Emboar being easily chipped away and unable to fufill their actual role. However, it's not just these two sets individually that make Vanilluxe S for me, it's the fact that you'll never know what item Vanilluxe is running until you're forced to switch into it, meaning Vanilluxe almost always gets a kill in the process. Sets such as NevermeltIce have had success as well just because of that unpredictable factor Vanilluxe has, tied in with the fact that most teams only carry 1 or possibly 2 Pokemon that can deal with it in the first place. Overall, I definitely see Vanilluxe as one of the most defining Pokemon in the tier and easily up there with other S ranked Pokemon like Emboar.

A > A+: Whimsicott is starting to pick up a lot more steam with people realizing that offensive Whimsicott is VERY difficult to deal with. Specs and Life Orb are very tricky to switch into with their unresisted coverage coupled with Whimsicott's impressive speed. These offensive sets also easily break down standard balance cores like Steelix/Golbat/Water-type or Rhydon/Garbodor/Water-type and in general thrive on how popular fat Waters are atm (thanks to Emboar). SubSeed is another good set punishes fat teams and actually takes advantage of Whimsicott's typing and ability better than Pixie Plate encore (which isn't a very good set). To keep this short, offensive Whimsicott sets are really good and Whims is definitely one of the better Pokemon in the tier rn.
 
Klinklang unranked>C- (I'd really go B but I'll take this one step at a time)

I can't believe we have trash like Claydol and Alola-Sandlash in D, yet Klinklang is still unranked.

Hear me out for a second. Klinklang can switch into so many thing in this meta, like Vanilluxe, Sceptile, Dodrio, Braviary, Ampbiom, Cinccino (Like christ.... that alone should be enough to warrant C-). It can outspeed Hitmonlee (and everything else) after a fake out, easily deal with the invincible mega-audino, guarantee shuckle cannot set up both webs and stealth rock (2HKO), KO unsuspecting water mons and Slowbroken (No idea how many times I've killed slowbro or vape with gigavolt havoc, I've lost count), after a shift gear or 2 (fairly likely with it's bulk and ability to force switch out) there are very few safe switch ins (and intimidate does not work with it's clear body, nice try scrafty), in theory there aren't as many things that wall it as fighting and fire types, it can fit well on a fairy weak team (one of the only mons that resists it in the meta). I don't have any incredible reason why it should rise, but the real question to me is, why shouldn't it? What stops it from at least gaining C- status?
 
C- -> UR: Absolutely no reason to use this now that its Mega evolution is released. Not much to say, it's straight terrible if it's not making use of its mega stone, so it should definitely leave the list.
B -> B+: I think that Hariyama should be ranked a bit higher. B+ seems like a nice fit for it as of right now, since Vanilluxe is getting so popular, Thick Fat AV Hariyama is a nice check to it and it fits pretty easily in most teams. It also can softly check Vikavolt and various Special attackers, so that's always a plus, but the main reason why I want it to go a little bit higher is because we lack Ice-type answers and Hariyama happens to be a viable one -- although not on the long run -- so I believe it deserves some love because being able to check one of the most prominent threat of the metegame is not something that should be ignored.

Also, I'm definitely supporting Vanilluxe rising to S, it's insanely good because of the lack of reliable switch-ins to snow-boosted Blizzard; it's S rank material to me.
 
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Mawile from UR --> C/C+

Mawile is a really underrated mon in the current metagame which has quite a few positive traits. It has a very useful ability in Intimidate, while resisting Bug, Dark, Fairy, Flying, Grass, Ice, Normal, Psychic, and Rock, and having Poison and Dragon immunities. Respectable physical bulk along with respectable attack makes Mawile able to not passively set rocks. Mawile hard-counters Sneasal, Dodrio, Ambipom, and Cinccino and is a great switch-in to knock off in general.


Shedinja from UR --> C
Shedinja walls an incredible amount of things in the SM NU metagame - Choiced Mowtom, Sceptile, Vikavolt, Slowbro,Non-stone edge Virizion, Whimsicott, Cryogonal, and many others. Goggles can allow Shedinja to wall Vanilluxe, another top Pokemon, as well. Shedinja’s ghost typing allows for situationally risk-free switch-ins to block spinners like Cryogonal or Hitmonlee. It also learns setup, priority, and Will-o-Wisp, giving it lots of roles it can fulfill alongside its incredible ability in Wonder Guard. It does have the downside of needing a lot of support and being somewhat matchup dependent, but with such high usage of the things that it hard counters, it deserves a spot on the VR.

EDIT: Will put in replays later
 
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Klinklang unranked>C- (I'd really go B but I'll take this one step at a time)

I can't believe we have trash like Claydol and Alola-Sandlash in D, yet Klinklang is still unranked.

Hear me out for a second. Klinklang can switch into so many thing in this meta, like Vanilluxe, Sceptile, Dodrio, Braviary, Ampbiom, Cinccino (Like christ.... that alone should be enough to warrant C-). It can outspeed Hitmonlee (and everything else) after a fake out, easily deal with the invincible mega-audino, guarantee shuckle cannot set up both webs and stealth rock (2HKO), KO unsuspecting water mons and Slowbroken (No idea how many times I've killed slowbro or vape with gigavolt havoc, I've lost count), after a shift gear or 2 (fairly likely with it's bulk and ability to force switch out) there are very few safe switch ins (and intimidate does not work with it's clear body, nice try scrafty), in theory there aren't as many things that wall it as fighting and fire types, it can fit well on a fairy weak team (one of the only mons that resists it in the meta). I don't have any incredible reason why it should rise, but the real question to me is, why shouldn't it? What stops it from at least gaining C- status?
Klinklang doesn't really switch in safely vs Vanilluxe, Sceptile, Dodrio and even Braviary:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 150-177 (57.4 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 220-260 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 156-185 (59.7 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 386-456 (147.8 - 174.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Dodrio Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Klinklang: 172-204 (65.9 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Braviary Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Klinklang: 224-264 (85.8 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO


2HKO'ing Shuckle isn't a good argument to let an unranked mon rise unfortunately especially when lots of other mons can do the same. Electrium Z is good for it but it doesn't even KO Slowbro reliably: +1 252+ Atk Klinklang Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 352-416 (89.3 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO. Don't forget that mons like Steelix, Rhydon, and Seismitoad check Klinklang and are all very common. It's rather weak unboosted and there are a lot of mons that can threaten it out like Emboar, Delphox, Vikavolt, Virizion, etc. As long as Steelix dominates the meta, I can't see Klinklang doing well in the current meta.

Mawile from UR --> C/C+

Mawile is a really underrated mon in the current metagame which has quite a few positive traits. It has a very useful ability in Intimidate, while resisting Bug, Dark, Fairy, Flying, Grass, Ice, Normal, Psychic, and Rock, and having Poison and Dragon immunities. Respectable physical bulk along with respectable attack makes Mawile able to not passively set rocks. Mawile hard-counters Sneasal, Dodrio, Ambipom, and Cinccino and is a great switch-in to knock off in general.


Shedinja from UR --> C
Shedinja walls an incredible amount of things in the SM NU metagame - Choiced Mowtom, Sceptile, Vikavolt, Slowbro,Non-stone edge Virizion, Whimsicott, Cryogonal, and many others. Goggles can allow Shedinja to wall Vanilluxe, another top Pokemon, as well. Shedinja’s ghost typing allows for situationally risk-free switch-ins to block spinners like Cryogonal or Hitmonlee. It also learns setup, priority, and Will-o-Wisp, giving it lots of roles it can fulfill alongside its incredible ability in Wonder Guard. It does have the downside of needing a lot of support and being somewhat matchup dependent, but with such high usage of the things that it hard counters, it deserves a spot on the VR.
Don't forget to submit replays when nomming an unranked mon. Shedinja doesn't actually wall that many current threats to begin with. Most Virizions are Stone Edge, Toxic Slowbro is definitely a thing, Cryogonal runs Knock Off or Toxic etc.
 
Klinklang doesn't really switch in safely vs Vanilluxe, Sceptile, Dodrio and even Braviary:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 150-177 (57.4 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 220-260 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 156-185 (59.7 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 386-456 (147.8 - 174.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Dodrio Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Klinklang: 172-204 (65.9 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Braviary Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Klinklang: 224-264 (85.8 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO


2HKO'ing Shuckle isn't a good argument to let an unranked mon rise unfortunately especially when lots of other mons can do the same. Electrium Z is good for it but it doesn't even KO Slowbro reliably: +1 252+ Atk Klinklang Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 352-416 (89.3 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO. Don't forget that mons like Steelix, Rhydon, and Seismitoad check Klinklang and are all very common. It's rather weak unboosted and there are a lot of mons that can threaten it out like Emboar, Delphox, Vikavolt, Virizion, etc. As long as Steelix dominates the meta, I can't see Klinklang doing well in the current meta.
Braviary is probably scarf locked, remember leaf storm cuts your SPA in half, you'll probably have some EVS in hp if you apply them wisely because X2 90 full evs is overkill.

It gets walled by steelix, but you obviously don't set up while steelix or rhydon is up, if you get to X2 or seismitoad is weakened return should do the trick. You bring up Slowbro as well, but after stealth rocks, that is an OHKO. Vanilluxe a lot of the time isn't scarfed, in which case you either force switch out and get a chance to set up or OHKO with gear grind.


I forgot to bring up the most important point though, it does not get revenge killed by scarfers, if you're set up and only scarfers are left GG
 
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Braviary is probably scarf locked, remember leaf storm cuts your SPA in half, you'll probably have some EVS in hp if you apply them wisely because X2 90 full evs is overkill.

It gets walled by steelix, but you obviously don't set up while steelix or rhydon is up, if you get to X2 or seismitoad is weakened return should do the trick. You bring up Slowbro as well, but after stealth rocks, that is an OHKO. Vanilluxe a lot of the time isn't scarfed, in which case you either force switch out and get a chance to set up or OHKO with gear grind.


I forgot to bring up the most important point though, it does not get revenge killed by scarfers, if you're set up and only scarfers are left GG
The argument "if x pokemon is alive you dont set up" is a poor rebuttle lol. Klinklang has all the same problems it did last gen, just further enhanced by good pokemon like vika and emboar. Its just really weak before setup and still kinda underwhelming after setup. From experience i know that it misses a lot of ohkos at +1 which is terrible because all of its offensive checks ohko it, and its defensive checks usually take two hits with ease.

PS: calc takes lstorm drop into account when giving you 2hko+ calcs

Edit: also relying on a mon being choiced is super unreliable and again, a poor rebuttle
 
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The argument "if x pokemon is alive you dont set up" is a poor rebuttle lol. Klinklang has all the same problems it did last gen, just further enhanced by good pokemon like vika and emboar. Its just really weak before setup and still kinda underwhelming after setup. From experience i know that it misses a lot of ohkos at +1 which is terrible because all of its offensive checks ohko it, and its defensive checks usually take two hits with ease.

PS: calc takes lstorm drop into account when giving you 2hko+ calcs

Edit: also relying on a mon being choiced is super unreliable and again, a poor rebuttle
Not really. Not being able to set up and sweep safely at the start of a game is pretty much a give for every sweeper. Sure it's underwhelming without any set up, but it can still force switches because of it's typing and in turn manage to set up two shift gears. It's underwhelming power is compensated by outspeeding scarfers who tend to be frail. With Mega-Audino here, klinklang's steel typing should be a viable offensive mon of at least C- rating. What do any of the other C- mons do outstandingly well?
 

quziel

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Not really. Not being able to set up and sweep safely at the start of a game is pretty much a give for every sweeper. Sure it's underwhelming without any set up, but it can still force switches because of it's typing and in turn manage to set up two shift gears. It's underwhelming power is compensated by outspeeding scarfers who tend to be frail. With Mega-Audino here, klinklang's steel typing should be a viable offensive mon of at least C- rating. What do any of the other C- mons do outstandingly well?
Matches up well vs offense, wears down enemy normal resists for teammates, U-turn support is always nice, a tad outclassed by Cinccino, but Low kick is notable enough to give it C- Rank
Unlimited bulk, Freeze Dry remains an overpowered move. Sub-toxic sets are an excellent win condition when paired with toxic spikes, and legitimately can just win certain matches. Offensive sets are outclassed by vanilluxe, but greater bulk gives them a niche. SR is a bitch.
Amazing wish passer, but needs to be unranked.
Sets up hazards very reliably, forces out Xatu, overall a fairly consistent hazard lead, only real issue is that its outclassed by Omastar
Good bulk, ridiculously hard to switch into for many defensive teams if they're lacking a general purpose special wall like Mega Audino. Good enough bulk and a unique typing/ability combo lets it come in easily vs Steelix, that said, largely outlcassed by Vikavolt, probably would need a drop.
SD Z-Wood hammer breaks basically everything in the tier barring Steelix, and still does 70% to it. Sure its frail as fuck, but it gets easy switchins vs any ghost, as well as status moves. This is enough for a niche.
Hydro pump hits typical ice resists such as Delphox for incredible damage. Typing and Water absorb lets it come in on water and ice types with relative ease.
Rain Dance
Defogger that beats every single relevant rocker, only down here cause garbodor walls it, and general speed issues.
If it actually manages to set up, and the enemy flying resist is weakened enough it wins, that said, the enemy will keep their flying resist healthy, hence why its down here.
Walls so much, shit, it even checks SD virizion, which is just insane. Reason its down here is mainly due to its main playstyle being somewhat lackluster in the tier, could honestly go for a rise.

Frankly, all of these mons have more reason to be used than Klinklang, which is walled by the most common pokemon in the tier, with its only way to break through Steelix being the opponent letting it get worn down to low levels. Without the incredibly telegraphed Z-Wild charge it fails to break Slowbro (which is often run with steelix, only compounding issues), and it struggles to efficiently break pokemon such as Druddigon (you literally KO yourself with gear grind, or get EQ'd/Glared trying to use return) and Seismitoad. The singular recent change to the meta that has helped it is Audino dropping, and Mega Audino is running offensive sets a third of the time, which simply destroy it. Frankly, it is in a very bad place in the current meta, and should not rise. Yes steel typing lets it come into Vanilluxe, but Vanilluxe is so broken it does nearly 70% to standard Klinklang, which basically means the only way you set up on Vanilluxe is if you bring it in after a sack, which ain't guaranteed at all. A similar story applies for Sceptile. Dodrio is running a z-move half the time, meaning that if you predict wrongly you now no longer have a Klinklang.

In other news:
Seismitoad: B+ => A-
I maintain Seis has been underranked for quite a while, but the sub-toxic set contributes consistently in almost every single matchup, and really assists prediction, as a lot of seis answers are choiced, or dislike toxic. This combo also lets you just deny Slowbro, as you have the bulk to tank a boosted Psyshock, and Slowbro aint' setting up once its toxiced. Its also a fairly ok answer to any Barbaracle not carrying grass knot, which is sorely needed in the meta. Getting a 100% free switchin to the eternally spammed steelix as well as the majority of other rockers also really helps it as sorta an anti-rocker rocker.

Aromatisse: B+ => B
Not a big change, but like, its basically free setup for Delphox, is really hurt by Steelix being everywhere, and being free spikes for Garbodor really hurts. I haven't used this mon in absolute ages, and really haven't felt a reason to. Plus Mega Audino is here, and Vaporeon is rising, which really edge into its role as a wishpasser, with significantly HP, generally better bulk, and being so much easier to bring in. Honestly, this is a nom more cause I personally haven't had any reason to stick it on a team in ages. Frankly, the only reason to use it atm is if you need a Wish Passer and a Fighting answer in the same slot.

Hariyama: B = > B+
Agree: Its an offensive check to Vanilluxe, which is otherwise incredibly hard to find, especially one that isn't SR weak, and therefore not worn down instantly. AV only needs 2 moves, so you can customize it to your team's exact needs, from EQ nailing the ever common Garbodor, to Stone Edge nailing golbat. It doesn't really work as a fire check anymore, aside from Houndoom, but with how disgusting Vanilluxe is right now, its really helpful for any team that needs to beat that mon without losing the most momentum.
 
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Frankly, all of these mons have more reason to be used than Klinklang, which is walled by the most common pokemon in the tier, with its only way to break through Steelix being the opponent letting it get worn down to low levels. Without the incredibly telegraphed Z-Wild charge it fails to break Slowbro (which is often run with steelix, only compounding issues), and it struggles to efficiently break pokemon such as Druddigon (you literally KO yourself with gear grind, or get EQ'd/Glared trying to use return) and Seismitoad. The singular recent change to the meta that has helped it is Audino dropping, and Mega Audino is running offensive sets a third of the time, which simply destroy it. Frankly, it is in a very bad place in the current meta, and should not rise. Yes steel typing lets it come into Vanilluxe, but Vanilluxe is so broken it does nearly 70% to standard Klinklang, which basically means the only way you set up on Vanilluxe is if you bring it in after a sack, which ain't guaranteed at all. A similar story applies for Sceptile. Dodrio is running a z-move half the time, meaning that if you predict wrongly you now no longer have a Klinklang.
Vanilluxe is usually not scarfed from what I've seen, in which case klinklang outspeed it. I do digress, as I can't deny you've brought up some good points. But I must say, klinklang getting wrecked by mega audino is absolute bull shit.

252+ Atk Klinklang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Audino-Mega: 244-292 (59.5 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Audino-Mega Fire Blast vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 218-258 (74.4 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Klinklang wins 100 percent of the time unless Maudino has specs, which in case the team is probably already bound to lose anyways.
 
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Vanilluxe is usually not scarfed from what I've seen, in which case klinklang outspeed it. I do digress, as I can't deny you've brought up some good points. But I must say, klinklang getting wrecked by mega audino is absolute bull shit.

252+ Atk Klinklang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Audino-Mega: 244-292 (59.5 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Audino-Mega Fire Blast vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 218-258 (74.4 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Klinklang wins 100 percent of the time unless Maudino has specs, which in case the team is probably already bound to lose anyways.
Scarf Vanilluxe is almost just as common as Specs Vanilluxe - its great at ripping apart offensive teams and has amazing revenge killing potential.

All your calc is showing that Klinklang can't even reliably switch in to mega Audino. Also, what is this 128HP shit going on here? That leaves klinklang with only 227 Speed which even after a shift gear is really slow. You're now outsped by scarf emboar after a shift gear, Sceptile, Whimsicott, and more. Thats even worse than standard 252Atk/252Spe Klinklang.

edit: forgot shift gear was +2 speed

Also lololol
Klinklang wins 100 percent of the time unless Maudino has specs, which in case the team is probably already bound to lose anyways.
Maudino has specs
Maudino has specs
Maudino has specs
 
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Shadestep

the sound quality is pretty and rough
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have some noms here:
B+ > A-:
I have been toying around with a wide variety of Toxicroak sets lately, and it has impressed the hell out of me. Toxicroak is a way stronger Pokemon than I imagined, with all the tools available to break or check whatever it wants to. I had first been toying around with SD + Rockium-Z Stone Edge to effectively lure Golbat and clear the way for my other teammates to sweep or clean up more easily, like Scarf Medicham. That's why I think Medicham + Toxicroak is such a good combo too. They work with the whole idea of a Fighting-spam Core, and both have their own ways to punish bulky Psychic-types from walling them, with Toxicroak being Knock Off / Gunk Shot Poisons, while Medicham can quite easily Trick away its Choice Scarf upon anything that's not called Slowbro.

Toxicroak @ Rockium Z
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Stone Edge
252+ Atk Toxicroak Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Eviolite Golbat: 242-286 (68.3 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <-- Guaranteed OHKO after basically any prior damage / removal of Eviolite via Knock Off
Cool partner:

Medicham @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
- Thunder Punch
- Trick
They work well because, after something like Golbat is eliminated, there most likely won't be any other really sturdy Fighting-resist left, cleaning up the way for Scarf Medicham to spam HJK until it eventually misses or gets knocked out otherwise.

Another cool Toxicroak set I have been using a lot lately is Shuca Berry SD, and it's soooo good. Really. Especially when you pair it with teammates that really appreciate Ground-types being eliminated, like Choice Specs / Scarf Rotom-Mow or Choice Specs Vikavolt. Both really benefit from Toxicroak basically KO-ing Steelix, Rhydon, or say... Piloswine, so that they can freely Volt Switch out whenever they want to, later on in the game. It always lives an Earthquake from the most popular Ground-types in the tier, being Steelix, Rhydon, and also lives one from Piloswine and Seismitoad. But Toxicroak's purpose doesn't stop at just being able to lure in Steelix and be done after that, because it also easily switches in and sets up on various other scary threats in the tier, like Virizion, Garbodor, most Hitmonlee sets, Xatu, and so on. Here is the set and some teammates you can use with it:

Toxicroak @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Knock Off
+2 252+ Atk Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 254-300 (72.1 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Toxicroak Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 55-65 (15.6 - 18.4%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
if you Knock Off on their initial Switch In, then SD on their Earthquake, and then Drain Punch on the turn after, you'll be in the best shape, since Toxicroak gets about 50% of its health back, bringing it back to nearly full HP.
136+ Atk Steelix Earthquake vs. 28 HP / 0 Def Shuca Berry Toxicroak: 171-202 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Partners:

Vikavolt @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 176 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Bug Buzz
- Volt Switch
- Energy Ball
Vikavolt greatly appreciates Steelix being gone, and same goes the other way around. They work very well together as Vikavolt can easily beat Golbat, Slowbro, etc.

Rotom-Mow @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Trick
Rotom-Mow always appreciates a lure for Steelix, Rhydon, Seismitoad... basically any Ground-type that can block Volt Switch and throw away momentum. Both sets are fine, since Scarf Rotom-Mow deals with Scarf Emboar better (a big threat to Toxicroak), but Specs has more raw power and hole-punching potential.


B+ > A-:
Guzzlord is super bulky, and really hard to deal with. It's really only a matter of prediction (or just mindlessly clicking Draco Meteor), to succesfully use Guzzlord. It takes on pretty much every special attacker in the tier bar Vanilluxe, and really dents about any Switch-in bar maybe Mega Audino..? but realistically, it hurts anything that tries to switch in on it, and forces you to carefully play around it and play aggresively (Focus Blast with Specs Sceptile, Dazzling Gleam with a locked-in Delphox), and if not, you get heavily punished. It is obviously no S-rank Pokemon and it's not the hardest Pokemon to lure or wear down throughout the match with Hail, Stealth Rock, Spikes, constant hits, etc etc. You can look at it similar to Hariyama. I still think Guzzlord is absolutely worthy of A- ranking, due to its splashability and offensive pressure.

A+ > S: agree
after playing around with both never-melt ice, Choice Specs, and Choice Scarf, I can definitely agree that this thing is S-rank worthy. Eternally's post covers it all; no full-blow counters, all checks get easily chipped and worn down, and it's by far the most scary Pokemon to see at team preview.
 
So I've collected some thoughts from situations I've observed over the past couple of weeks.
Drops:
S -> A+: Rotom Mow practically ran the tier on its own since NU became official with its solid typing, power coverage, and decent speed tier. The majority of the teams struggled to find switch-ins to mowtom because it beats all ground types and volt switches on any of its resists. However, there has been a rise of Guzzlord and Togedemaru in competitive play. Even thought it can technically just volt switch on a slow mon like Guzzlord what Guzzlord does paired with a Ground Type is force the mowtom user to overthink whenever they want to click because if they leaf storm expecting the ground and Guzz comes in, Guzz easily forces it out and will hit back hard. Togedemaru could also force it to run HP Ground to beat it (which hasn't really been seen as of late) but that can be scouted and toge serves as a deterrent to spamming volt switch or storm anyways. The meta developed and people started to figure out how to play around mowtom hence my suggestion for it to drop.

A -> B+: Lass is an interesting case. It is a newer mon that people assumed would break the metagame and force a lot of team changes, but it really didn't do much at all. Seeing 0 tournament play in Snake and small amounts in Slam and NU League, lass has simply been underwhelming. There's a great deal of counterplay to it as well, such as Xatu running ~16 SpDef evs to live a max attack ice beam and u turning out into Sneasel to pursuit or another mon that forces lass out. In general, it finds itself struggling in the metagame and it should drop to B+ at least until the most optimal set of running it comes out with a decent amount of success.
252 SpA Froslass Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 16 SpD Xatu: 278-330 (83.4 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

B -> C+: Turtonator has lost a lot of competitive usage since the veil ban since that was really the only reliable way for it to set up. Having a rock weakness, extremely slow natural speed, poor HP and SpDef, Turt is one of the hardest sweepers to support. It gets worn down very easily and even at +2 is still outsped by the majority if not all of the prevalent scarfers that can revenge it quickly. Without having veil to stack a couple of smash boosts, it's just too hard to use and does not have the team synergy with a lot of mons.

Rises:
Others have mentioned a lot of rises I agree with which will be listed later. However, there is one mon that I feel could be even higher that deserves a discussion on its placement.
A+ -> S: Barbaracle is just great. Seeing usage on 4 out of the 10 teams presented thus far in Snake Draft NU, people have started to pick up on it. It just does everything it is meant to accomplish in an overwhelming fashion. Here's eternally using it vs Hootie in his first game, Barbaracle getting its time to shine after finding the perfect oppurtunity to set up on a choice locked sneasel and in my game vs Blast where the threat of it setting up let me get a lot of free damage and kills in on his Pokemon with taunt, not to forget the threat of Blast's own barbaracle forcing me into a tricky end game situation. Aside from tournament results, Barbar is easily the hardest mon to prep for. It sets up without a sweat on choice locked fire type mons like Emboar's flare blitz or Delphox's fire blast and abuses it. The rockium set allows it to even set up freely on choice locked Sneasels and can kill Slowbro and Vileplume at +2 with Continental Crush, forcing some mind games with that. People using offensive typically used Scarf Phox to counter it with Grass Knot but Barbars now run jolly to outspeed Phox and kill. It's just crazy how much pressure Barbar can apply as a Pokemon with an insane threat potential and many mons being unable to revenge it. Barbaracle, in my opinion, will be very meta defining and continue as one of the top NU threats.
Barbaracle @ Rockium Z
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Razor Shell
- Stone Edge
- Return

UR -> C: This is a mon previously brought up by a user and played around with by many experienced players as well. To be blunt, Type: Null has insanely stupid bulk. 394 HP at max and hitting 472 SpDef or Def (SpDef is the set I'm going to talk about because it's the better one) due to Eviolite, Type: Null clearly isn't messing around. The set people have used is RestTalk Swords Dance Frustration. Its crazy bulk allows it to set up and switch in to many mons such as Specstile's Leaf Storm, easily catch Delphox's Fire Blasts, and, to an extent, Ice Cream's blizzards. It takes advantage of fat teams (ex: snagaa vs Kushalos's fat team where Type: Null can practically 6-0 in NU Open) and sets up, allowing it to wallbreak pretty easily. It is also shown in Gunner Rohan vs snagaa in the next round where it easily switches in to a Delphox and Ice Cream but unfortunately gets held back slightly due to a freeze that it laters thaws out of. The draw backs of the set are its vulnerability to Knock Off, Fighting moves, and only being able to run Normal STAB so it cannot hit ghosts. It requires a decent amount of support to really pull off but the results show of how useful it can be, especially towards fatter teams that rely on cores such as Bro, Bat, Clefairy etc.
Type: Null @ Eviolite
Ability: Battle Armor
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 244 SpD / 12 Spe
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Frustration
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Those are the rises and drops I think should happen that haven't been mentioned, showing support for S-Rank
, A-Rank
, and A+-Rank

thx for reading
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
is a member of the Site Staffis a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Yeah I know I'm just an OU mod that hasn't played a ton of NU but I 100% agree with Lax on Barb going S and I'm really surprised it hasn't already. Just playing like 30+ ladder matches today I found such immense success with this Pokemon. I know it's ladder but like I was facing some legit teams against players that weren't completely idiotic and I was still able to consistently win with Barb with basically just Spikes support. Being able to set up on the likes of Sneasel, Scarf Emboar locked into Blitz, Scarf Vanilla locked into Blizz, Garbs that are dumb enough not to run Seed Bomb, etc. After a boost, outside of like what Seismitoad, which is easy to wear down if you can keep hazards up (which drops at like 60%ish to Return) mostly anything not fat as all fuck will die. Slowbro and Plume loses to +2 CC after rocks, Virizion to +2 Return, Vaporeon, etc. It's not like revenge killing it is super fucking easy either when there's basically Scarf Delphox I guess and like Mach from a Lee or something. Even at -1 Defense it's fat enough to take Suckers from Croak and Shards from CB Sneasel.

Yeah it's not super splashable like Slowbro or Rotom-C nor is it versatile, but its ability to just completely turn games around with one slip up is just absolutely insane. Without dedicated answers to it and careful play with your Seismitoad, it can just win so many games, and any time I faced one I always found myself so scared to ever click Scarf Blitz on Emboar or Knock on Sneasel because I was so damn afraid of just letting it come in and win, especially if he's got like a Spike or two up. It seems a lot like Volcarona in OU except with like 50% less counterplay lol. This Pokemon is 100% S in my book, it's just so threatening and team restrictive and I can't really think of any other sweeper in NU that performs as well as Barbara. It defines the NU metagame by setting a standard for basically any other sweeper in the tier lol, because nothing even comes close imo. It's busted out the ass.
 
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Sir Kay

Pack your meat bicycles, we're going to the moon.
is a Pre-Contributor
S -> A+: Rotom Mow practically ran the tier on its own since NU became official with its solid typing, power coverage, and decent speed tier. The majority of the teams struggled to find switch-ins to mowtom because it beats all ground types and volt switches on any of its resists. However, there has been a rise of Guzzlord and Togedemaru in competitive play. Even thought it can technically just volt switch on a slow mon like Guzzlord what Guzzlord does paired with a Ground Type is force the mowtom user to overthink whenever they want to click because if they leaf storm expecting the ground and Guzz comes in, Guzz easily forces it out and will hit back hard. Togedemaru could also force it to run HP Ground to beat it (which hasn't really been seen as of late) but that can be scouted and toge serves as a deterrent to spamming volt switch or storm anyways. The meta developed and people started to figure out how to play around mowtom hence my suggestion for it to drop.
I 100% disagree with this nom. Rotom-m is one of the most annoying mons in the tier to face because all the "good" answers to it aside from Togedmaru all can't stop it from gaining momentum. Guzzlord + a ground type means your ability to beat it comes down to forcing 50/50's where the reward best case is draining momentum with a volt switch on your ground or a leaf storm on your Guzzlord. In the worse case you switch into your ground type and take a leaf storm and die or swap into Guzzlord on a volt and you take chip damage and it gains the momentum. This forces the player against the Rotom-m into moderate reward high risk situations which is a very shaky way of dealing with it. Togedmaru is an issue for it, sure, but honestly that isn't reason enough to drop it from S rank. Rotom-m still is a bitch to build for and play against and it still defines the tier as the premiere grass type.


Other then that I strongly support moving both Vanilluxe and Barbarcle to S ranks. Other people have made wonderful posts on them so I wont go too in depth, but I wanted to share my support for them while I was here.
 
So I've collected some thoughts from situations I've observed over the past couple of weeks.
Drops:
S -> A+: Rotom Mow practically ran the tier on its own since NU became official with its solid typing, power coverage, and decent speed tier. The majority of the teams struggled to find switch-ins to mowtom because it beats all ground types and volt switches on any of its resists. However, there has been a rise of Guzzlord and Togedemaru in competitive play. Even thought it can technically just volt switch on a slow mon like Guzzlord what Guzzlord does paired with a Ground Type is force the mowtom user to overthink whenever they want to click because if they leaf storm expecting the ground and Guzz comes in, Guzz easily forces it out and will hit back hard. Togedemaru could also force it to run HP Ground to beat it (which hasn't really been seen as of late) but that can be scouted and toge serves as a deterrent to spamming volt switch or storm anyways. The meta developed and people started to figure out how to play around mowtom hence my suggestion for it to drop.
I want to add on to this as part of my support for this drop.

Part of the reason in why Rotom Mow has gotten less useful is because of metagame adaptions such as the ones listed above, but another huge reason is competition for roles.

Mowtom generally ran 2 different sets most commonly, Scarf and Specs, and with the occasional Will-o-Wisp set in there. People are realizing that there are some emerging scarfers in the metagame that just are more useful than Mowtom, notably Delphox, Emboar, Vanilluxe, and Hitmonlee (Delphox can notably revenge kill Barbaracle at +2, something that is very useful in a tier where letting Barbaracle set up can mean game over). All of these Pokemon tear apart the grass-infested offensive metagame, but both of Mowtom's STAB attacks are resisted by the multiple grass types in the tier. These grass types are also the Pokemon that Mowtom has to compete with for use - think Virizion, think Whimsicott, think Sceptile. All of these Pokemon have ways of beating some of their checks effectively (Virizion can run Z-Stone Edge for Golbat, Xatu and other Fire, Bug, or Flying types, while it can also run Z-Zen Headbutt for Poison types like Garbodor and Golbat. Whimsicott runs Psychic to hit Poisons, while Sceptile runs Focus Blast for steels (like Togedemaru!), and Rock for things like Golbat or Vikavolt.

Oh, but you say, Delphox, Emboar, and Hitmonlee are checked by Slowbro, one of the best mons in the tier, while Mowtom pressures it all the time. The thing is, there are things that pressure Slowbro better while also having great wallbreaking capabilities - some of which are just recently becoming heavily used in the metagame, think Guzzlord, think Vanilluxe, think Vikavolt. All of these Pokemon have the ability to beat Slowbro (Guzzlord is able to come in safely almost all the time), while also making much better utility wallbreakers in general just to sheer power, better movepools, and better typing.

All of these Pokemon listed have significantly more complex counterplay than Rotom-Mow, and that along with the meta adaptations (such as Togedemaru, Seismitoad running protect, Z moves limiting trick, Guzzlord, etc. etc.) to Mowtom signal to me that Rotom-Mow is not as good as it once was and should no longer be in S rank.
 
A+ -> S - I agree with everyone who previously stated Vanilluxe should become S rank. It has many different sets such as nevermelt ice, choice scarf, and choice specs. It beats slowbro due to freeze dry, and scarf outspeeds emboar dealing around a good half chunk of health, so once emboar is low enough it cant even switch in on Vanilluxe. If its specs vanilluxe, and they predict you to switch to emboar it does 75.3 - 89.1% to Emboar, and even a blizzard doing 51.5 - 60.9%. Not to mention, blizzards don't miss due to snow warning. This mon definitely deserves S.

A+ -> S - This mon also deserves S rank. If barbaracle gets to shell smash, which it likely gets to due to it being 72/115/86, so it takes a hit bar a grass move, you're done. Once it sets up, the only way you're beating it is if you have a scarfer that has at least 108 base speed (if it's jolly), which isn't many pokemon that are viable with above that speed tier. This mon is deadly.

B+ -> A - This mon is incredibly bulky and counters a common threat, slowbro, can counter boar if it is choice locked into not superpower/brick break. This mon can potentially take a crit dazzling gleam from mismagius, which has happened to me before. Specs guzzlord is very good and is an excellent special wallbreaker.
 
Hi guys, this is a bit of a weirder update. The VR Council recently came together to discuss making a bunch of our own shifts because we felt as if the current rankings needed an overhaul. A lot of nominations were brought up and we have the finished results here.
Code:
Rises:
Vanilluxe A+ > S
Whimsicott A > A+
Guzzlord B+ > A
Piloswine B+ > A-
Seismitoad B+ > A-
Mesprit B- > B+

Drops: Sceptile A+ > A
Slowbro S > A+
Mismagius A > A-
Steelix A > A-
Tauros B > B-
Scyther B > B-
Golbat A- > B+
Jellicent B+ > B
Audino C- > UR
Wormadam Trash C- > UR
Poliwrath C+ > C-
Absol C+ > C
Persian-Alola B- > C+
Turtanator B > B-
Oricorio-Baile C+ > C-
Drampa B- > C+
Rises:
Vanilluxe A+ --> S
Mostly everything has been said about Vanilluxe that can be said. Vanilluxe is one of the single most defining offensive threats in the tier. Defensive teams usually need to bend backwards to find answers to it and offensive teams are highly pressured by Scarf's powerful Blizzard and Hail chip. Freeze-dry is broken.

Whimsicott A > A+
Whimsicott rose for its fantastic dual stab in combination with a stellar speed tier. Choice Specs has very little switch ins in the tier, with very few teams having lasting switch ins to Moonblast. The meta has favored it over Sceptile as of late and this ranking reflects this shift.

Guzzlord B+ > A
Guzzlord has been consistently on the rise for a while. Its typing is fabulous offensively and defensively. Sporting impressive coverage and extreme natural bulk, Guzzlord has found itself an advantageous matchup against most team archetypes in NU nowadays.

Piloswine B+ > A-
Piloswine's typing is very useful, being the only Pokemon that's able to wall Vanilluxe while being able to set up rocks. Xatu being on the rise also makes it more favorable to throw Piloswine on teams as it is one of the few Stealth Rock setters that threaten it.

Seismitoad B+ > A-
Defensive Seismitoad finally finds itself a very significant niche in being a hard check to Emboar with Stealth Rock. It has other useful functions like being a good Slowbro check with Toxic and a generally physically bulky Water-type.

Mesprit B- > B+
Mesprit's Healing Wish utility makes it a great Pokemon to have on offense and is able to set up Stealth Rock while being able to threaten Xatu with Ice Beam. This Pokemon fills many slots into a team's needs, which warrants this rise.

Drops:
Sceptile A+ > A
Sceptile finds itself being overshadowed by Whimsicott, which has a better STAB combination and provides more to a defensively while still sitting in a fantastic Speed tier. There's a lot more in this metagame that punishes Sceptile for going for Leaf Storm, so it's forced to rely on prediction more often to remain as an effective breaker, causing it to be less consistent.

Slowbro S > A+
The metagame has more or less shifted Slowbro out of favor. While its natural physical bulk is useful on slower teams, the rise of Pokemon such as Guzzlord, Vikavolt, Seismitoad, Expert Belt Emboar, Samurott, and the omnipresent Grass-types often will put Slowbro at a more pressing disadvantage in a given match.

Mismagius A > A-
Not much has changed for Mismagius, but the VR council felt as if it was not on the same level of viability as the rest of A rank and that it was more suited to A-. It's fairly frail, not impressively fast, and is pretty easy to revenge kill or Pursuit trap.

Steelix A > A-
Xatu's rise to power makes running Steelix more of a liability nowadays. Overall its a fairly exploitable rocker and is pretty easy to overwhelm despite how much it can blanket check by itself. The metagame has also adapted too well to Steelix, with nearly every top threat either heavily threatening or outright beating it.

Tauros B > B-
There are much better fast attackers that can actually get kills using their superior offensive presence.

Scyther B > B-
Scyther struggles to maintain a field presence throughout the course of a match because of how easy it is to set up Stealth Rocks. Hazard control in NU is suffering right now and a lot of very common Pokemon, such as Steelix and Barbaracle, easily threaten or take advantage of Scyther.

Golbat A- > B+
The rise of Xatu really hurts Golbat. It's hazard control that actually threatens Steelix and Seismitoad and acts as another easy switch-in to Golbat itself. Additionally, team builders are finally realizing how exploitable Golbat is, especially in a metagame where Barbaracle is so damn threatening.

Jellicent B+ > B
There's very few reasons to run Jellicent over Vaporeon, Seismitoad, Slowking, or Slowbro. It's a decent spinblocker and that's about it.
We excluded reasoning for C Ranks because they're very insignificant Pokemon.

We should be working on another update fairly soon based off of the nominations presented in this thread. Thank you again everyone for the hard work and great discussion!
 
Small update, but we had a fringe nomination that was described as "very important" by one of our esteemed leaders back when we voted on the other VR-council-suggested changes. The vote recently finished:

A+ --> S

Here is a wonderful post outlining Barbaracle's very significant impact on the tier and why the VR Council believed it deserves its placement in the S rank: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-sm-nu-stage-2-girls.3614206/#post-7517946

Additionally, we have a new VR Council member. quziel has done a great job as a contributor in this thread and we felt like he would be a perfect addition to our body of decision-makers here. Welcome aboard!

That's all for now. I'm sure we'll have a regular update soon cause we've had a lot of nominations come through as per usual.
 
to B
Recently, the meta has shifted away from Braviary's favor, in quite a few ways. For one, Barbaracle has recently rose in ranking, which affects Braviary heavily. Scarf doesn't outspeed Barbaracle after a Shell Smash, and at that point even Razor Shell kills. One last Pokemon on the rise is Vikavolt, which checks Braviary as well. Druddigon is also a worthy mention, since it sets up rocks against it, Dragon Tails it out, as well as eating hits all at the same time. Unfortunately, it only does this to the scarf set, as Druddigon in set-up fodder for Bulk Up. Rhydon and Piloswine also get rocks up on Braviary, as well as work as amazing checks, specifically Piloswine, which has gained popularity as a rocker recently.

All in all, a lot of Pokemon that Braivary has a hard time dealing with are rising in usage, which is why I believe that it should drop to B.
 
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