It dose not even make sense, bad players just spam all the best pokemon in a vein attempt to win, like in 4th gen. Since when has smogon been an excuse to play for fun, rather than the sport of competition?As someone sayed earlier, i think that the tiers should be made by usage statistics of players with a certain min rating. I mean guys look at OU right now...
Gliscor is #9 even though it is outclassed by Landorus-T in offensive and offensive balanced teams, and that it's Toxic stalling and AcroBat sets are bad. Only the SubPass and the defensive sets are worth using, yet look where he is.
Cloyster is #20 for some strang reason. I don't remember it ever being popular to noobs. Anyway it is an ok sweeper, but has a hell of a time setting up, and even if it does, it has Breloom and Keldeo to make its life hard.
Infernape at #22 is weird as hell, as rain is everywhere, as are Lati@s, Tentacruel and better sweepers and wallbreakers for most sun teams. He still has a niche, but a small one, and its usage isn't deserved at all.
As for Thundurus-T, Tornadus-T, Keldeo, Deoxys-D, Landorus, Landorus-T, Celebi, Latias, and Hippowdon, they are all criminally underused... And when shit like Ninjask are #50 in usage you know that something is really wrong.
So i think that we can't count all the players in PS for our tiering. I may be overreacting, but i just can't accept how terrrible the OU stats are. In the past (before PS), they weren't the most reliable source of telling what's good and what isn't, but they still could provide some backround for what pokes were good in OU, and what was the shape of OU in general. Now? Lol!!! If a new player ever sees the current usage stats, i doubt that its pokemon career will start in a good way. There are simply too many bad players...
Yes and I agree, they are now too many players that are not trying to win on smogon they are just battling for the hell of it. Thus pokemon that are expected to be high in use are low on occasions and the same with pokemon as you pointed out, cloyster are much higher in useage than their capability would understand and your suggestion of applying stats to ranks would allow us to see stats when people are playing seriously.Did you understand what i was saying?
Ah great! I thought you were disagreeing with me...Yes and I agree, they are now too many players that are not trying to win on smogon they are just battling for the hell of it. Thus pokemon that are expected to be high in use are low on occasions and the same with pokemon as you pointed out, cloyster are much higher in useage than their capability would understand and your suggestion of applying stats to ranks would allow us to see stats when people are playing seriously.
God no, your right and I could not agree more, ninjask in ou is like the return of electivire. This is really damaging for smogon too as you said newbies look at it, and get the idea that certain pokemon are better than others and our image as a competive site, the whole in it to win it thing kept people away that had no interest in serious battles before, whats happened thta people think smogon is for jollies and their favourites?Ah great! I thought you were disagreeing with me...
Are you freaking kidding me? Dragonite is one of the most versatile and dangerous dragons to deal with in this meta. Are you hinting that it should drop to UU or something? Multiscale is easily broken if you have poor team building and or bad predictions. You MUST have a spinner on a team with Dragonite in order for it to shine, and you also need to make sure to bring Dragonite in on a free switch, so he doesn't take damage in the process.OU
| 4 | Dragonite | 124017 | 16.016%
Suspect
| 16 | Dragonite | 2617 | 11.587%
Dragonite isn't that great guys....DD is actually just too slow in this meta, multiscale is too easy too break.
Usage is usage. As long as we determine our tiers based on the choices of all players, the "true" usage stats are the OU usage stats themselves.As far as I'm concerned, these are the true usage stats for OU. They show the metagame as it really is: dominated by Rain and offense spam.
He's really not that stellar at all. All of his sets have different issues to contend with, most of them involving his speed and the fact that in a Rain meta, Skarmory and Ferrothorn are pretty hard checks. Outside of DD and CB, I think most of his other sets are gimmicks. He's a little TOO reliant on multiscale for my tastes.Are you freaking kidding me? Dragonite is one of the most versatile and dangerous dragons to deal with in this meta. Are you hinting that it should drop to UU or something? Multiscale is easily broken if you have poor team building and or bad predictions. You MUST have a spinner on a team with Dragonite in order for it to shine, and you also need to make sure to bring Dragonite in on a free switch, so he doesn't take damage in the process.
Being so incredibly unpredictable and being able to go so many different routes in move sets makes this thing something to watch out for. Don't just use his DD set, try his CB, Parashuffler, or even bulky DD. Please don't ever use the words "not great" and "Dragonite" in the same sentence. Not counting that one ;)
I'm sorry, but this bugs me. What's wrong with playing for fun as long as you don't make teams specifically to bug people? I freely admit that I play for fun. What other reason is there to play pokemon?Since when has smogon been an excuse to play for fun, rather than the sport of competition?
Even with moxie, mence is not that great. If he uses moxie he is rather frail 95/80/80 defences in this metagame are not that great and it's not that hard to ko him, unlike dragonite who will find it very easy to get up a dd if multiscale is intact and even if it's not he has still got good bulk, he can either roost or set up. The thing's mence have really got going for it is tha bility to out speed genesect and that beautiful scarf set, making it arguably the second best scarfer after genesect. Dragonite has issues as a dragon dancer because of genesect.He's really not that stellar at all. All of his sets have different issues to contend with, most of them involving his speed and the fact that in a Rain meta, Skarmory and Ferrothorn are pretty hard checks. Outside of DD and CB, I think most of his other sets are gimmicks. He's a little TOO reliant on multiscale for my tastes.
If you want to talk about something threatening without rocks up, try Mence or Volcarona. Those two send me in a panic faster than Dragonite.
Of course Salamence is a huge threat as well, but he's quite frail, and even without Multiscale Dragonite can take hits better, and dealing almost the same amount of damage (not counting Moxie). His speed is lacking however, but Salamence is very easy to revenge kill with priority and scarfed Genesect, where as with Dragonite at Multiscale he's much harder to revenge kill, and with access to Roost, he can get it back up. Lastly, he works similar to Volcarona by being able to spam Hurricane, making him a viable rain team member.He's really not that stellar at all. All of his sets have different issues to contend with, most of them involving his speed and the fact that in a Rain meta, Skarmory and Ferrothorn are pretty hard checks. Outside of DD and CB, I think most of his other sets are gimmicks. He's a little TOO reliant on multiscale for my tastes.
If you want to talk about something threatening without rocks up, try Mence or Volcarona. Those two send me in a panic faster than Dragonite.
Also this plays a role in his drop in effectiveness. Genebitch.Dragonite has issues as a dragon dancer because of genesect.
You mention that because rain is so popular, Skarmory and Ferro are very good checks to Dnite. And then you say that Mence is far more threatening than Dnite, as if the above pokes that you mentioned don't really afect him, which is not the case at all. Maybe i just understood wrong, in which case excsuse me.He's really not that stellar at all. All of his sets have different issues to contend with, most of them involving his speed and the fact that in a Rain meta, Skarmory and Ferrothorn are pretty hard checks. Outside of DD and CB, I think most of his other sets are gimmicks. He's a little TOO reliant on multiscale for my tastes.
If you want to talk about something threatening without rocks up, try Mence or Volcarona. Those two send me in a panic faster than Dragonite.
Yeah Gene's Ice Beam KOs and outspeeds +1 Jolly DNIte. However, +2 KO after rocks w/ Outrage, and outspeeds. I think DNite is actually really good since it beats so many teams after +2.Even with moxie, mence is not that great. If he uses moxie he is rather frail 95/80/80 defences in this metagame are not that great and it's not that hard to ko him, unlike dragonite who will find it very easy to get up a dd if multiscale is intact and even if it's not he has still got good bulk, he can either roost or set up. The thing's mence have really got going for it is tha bility to out speed genesect and that beautiful scarf set, making it arguably the second best scarfer after genesect. Dragonite has issues as a dragon dancer because of genesect.
We shall see, regardless to whether genesect is broken or not there is a difference between between versitile to the point he is useful on 99% of teams. I have never madea team since it's release that genesect was not ideal, he can do so many jobs at once that would normally require more than one pokemon, jack of all offensive trade and the not 100% uber of them too like mewtwo or arceus. I don't want to get involved in a debate or whether it's uber or not for the reason I don't think genesect has a cat in hells chance of getting a fair test. Vertility and effectiveness may imply uber but they mean no more than latias, deoyxs d and keldeo being bad for being so rrarely used, when clearly they are not and I know everyone agree with me here on the whole why in gods earth are these pokemon not used more part.hello? 50%, you kidding me?
Definetely every person realizes that this pretty much means that (good) players have no reason not to use genesect, which essentially means broken, (but i think that discussion should be in a thread where everybody is focused on that topic). And as most people i consider the suspect the real OU stats due the number of scrubs you find in the regular OU ladder, i like seeing deoxys d and keldeo getting the respect they deserve.
Also, copying 4-5 teams isnt what most of us did in the Suspect ladder, i only used 1 :]
What? This statement is really rubbing me the wrong way. I don't think a single user is on here for any reason besides fun. If you find winning fun then so be it but there are loads of people on Smogon, and PS, who are just there to have fun. And why is that so wrong?Since when has smogon been an excuse to play for fun, rather than the sport of competition?
That's what I'm saying too. On top of this Rain bullshit making Keldeo and Tornadus God-tier sweepers/wallbreakers, there are a lot more viable Scarfers now to stop him from sweeping anything even with a free dance. On top of the support he requires to maintain his advantage, I think ~#15 is just right for him.Yes I agree there are better choices out there, but I don't agree with the fact that he's not good in this meta, because he is.
I think not even Kyogre has seen that much usage. Then again, I don't like taking Suspect stats into consideration because we, well, have a Uber being tested there, but Genesect's still ridiculous.Yeah, you see these suspect stats make more sense. Things like Keldeo and Deoxys-D are high because they're ridiculously good Pokemon. Latias sees the use it deserves (it's offensive sets are literally just as good as Latios imo). Things like Metagross aren't seen because it's aggressively mediocre, etc.
| 1 | Genesect | 11417 | 50.549% | 10233 | 52.536% |
I don't think any Pokemon has ever this much usage in any OU metagame. Even DPP OU Garchomp couldn't crack 50%... Not much else to say, the usage stat pretty much speaks for itself.