Resource On RBY Stat modifications, paralysis/burn stat drops

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The mechanics involving stat modifications in RBY are really weird, with a lot of glitches involved. Thankfully, it becomes simpler when we take badge boosts out of the picture. At this point we all know agility and sd/sharpen will ignore paralysis and burn stat drops respectively, but there's a lot more to it.

Basically, whenever a move that affects the stat levels (aka stat stages, stat modifiers) in any way, of either Pokemon in battle, is succesfully used (or if a move like Bubblebeam's secondary effect occurs), if the Pokemon whose turn it is not right now is paralyzed or burned, the correspoding stat penalties will be applied again to that Pokemon.

Here is an example: My opponent has 20 attack. During my turn, I use Ember and burn it, its attack stat becoming 10. In my next turn I use Double Team, a stat modifying move. Not only my Evasion will be raised due to Double Team's effect, but, since it's my turn and my opponent is burned, my opponent's attack stat will be halved again, becoming 5.

Whenever one certain stat of a Pokemon is affected by a stat modifying move, the stat is recalculated again ignoring any stat modification not related to stat level (aka stat stages). So, if say, my original speed stat is 100 and my speed stat level is 7 (+0) and I use Agilty, or my opponent uses String Shot on me, the resulting speed stat will become 200 and 66, respectively, no matter what. But, if I'm paralyzed in the second case (String Shot), my speed will be quartered, becoming 16. Notice how my speed isn't quartered in the first case (Agility), because I use Agility in my own turn; if my opponent happens to be paralyzed when I use Agility myself (or Amnesia, or Growl, etc), HIS speed will be quartered, and same applies to attack if burned (halving it).

So, in short, here's how it goes.
- This is triggered whenever a stat level modifying move effect succesfully occurs
- Apply move's effect. Recalculate ONLY the affected stat based on stat level modifiers only, ignoring any old paralysis/burn stat drop if applicable.
- Check if the player whose turn it is NOT is paralyzed or burned. If the answer is "no", we are done.
- If paralyzed gave "true" quarter its speed
- If burned gave "true" halve its attack

Note that minimum stat is always 1.

Here's a video I made showing the glitch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlhsYKeUt-w

Someone told me in the comments that this was already documented here: http://www.dragonflycave.com/rbystatmods.aspx The information in this page is pure gold, even though it contains information related to badge boosts and items that are irrelevant for us. It also talks about Rage and Haze effects in relation to this, which I hadn't investigated myself yet.

I just reported this to Pokemon Online: http://pokemon-online.eu/threads/on-rby-stat-modifications-paralysis-burn-stat-drops.29838/
 
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This is a pretty big deal and an awesome find, Crystal_. I can think of a few major ways this can impact the metagame:

1) If your opponent uses Agility after being paralyzed in an attempt to shake off the speed drop, you actually have a way to slow him back down without him having to switch out.
2) Pokemon like Slowbro and Snorlax who, when paralyzed, are slower than everything ELSE even when everything else is paralyzed, can use Amnesia, Reflect, Withdraw, whatever, and suddenly become faster than anything they're facing (so long as their opp is paralyzed). This is a huge deal since Slowbro is going to use Amnesia anyway, and getting Slowbro faster than any of its opponents can be a huge help.

I wonder if, should this be properly implemented, carrying around a stat-impacting move on other Pokemon might become more standard. What do you guys think? Would Reflect Kinesis Zam be more valuable than Seismic Toss because of the extra utility, for example? (ETA: Reflect is excluded from this calculation. Other possible examples ... Harden on Snorlax instead of Reflect, to both raise defense AND potentially make you faster than your opponent? Kinesis on Zam? Etc.)
 
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Reflect/Light Screen are excluded from this glitch though. Their boosts are only temporal, and only last during damage calcualtion. They just double whatever the stat is temporarilly.
 

Jorgen

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So to put it another way to make sure I'm getting it:

When ANY effect that modifies stats is triggered:
step 1: take base stats prior to status modifiers (burn, para)
step 2: update stat level (e.g., 0 to -1)
step 3: recalculate stats based on stat levels
step 4: check status of the Pokemon that did NOT just use a move
step 5: IF it is burned or paralyzed, change the affected stat accordingly (e.g., if burned, halve its attack)
step 6: end

Because nothing re-applies status to the Pokemon that just used the move, its paralysis/burn is ignored UNTIL the OTHER Pokemon uses a stat-changing move.

If I understand this correctly, this means when two paralyzed Zapdos use Agility, the second-to-move Zapdos re-applies the first-to-move Zapdos' paralysis while ignoring its own.

Is the "check status of non-moving Pokemon and change its stats accordingly" routine also called any time a burn or paralysis is inflicted? Or just when statuses are already in place and a stat-changing effect is triggered?
 
step 1: take base stat of the affected stat prior to status modifiers (burn, para)
step 2: update stat level (e.g., 0 to -1)
step 3: recalculate affected stat based on stat levels
step 4: check status of the Pokemon that did NOT just use a move
step 5: IF it is burned or paralyzed, change the affected stat accordingly (e.g., if burned, halve its attack)
step 6: end
If I understand this correctly, this means when two paralyzed Zapdos use Agility, the second-to-move Zapdos re-applies the first-to-move Zapdos' paralysis while ignoring its own.
Yes, first to move Zapdos will end up will original speed * 2/4 while the second to move Zapdos will end up with original speed * 2.

Is the "check status of non-moving Pokemon and change its stats accordingly" routine also called any time a burn or paralysis is inflicted? Or just when statuses are already in place and a stat-changing effect is triggered?
It's called anytime burn or paralysis is inflicted, and any time a burned or paralyzed Pokemon enters the field.

Because nothing re-applies status to the Pokemon that just used the move, its paralysis/burn is ignored UNTIL the OTHER Pokemon uses a stat-changing move.
I think you are missing here what I said in my answer above. This would be true after using SD/Sharpen for burn and Agility for paralysis, but otherwise the stat drops will be applied as soon as the pokemon gets statused, or the statused Pokemon switches in.
 
Does this glitch still activate if "nothing happened" ie the stat is already maxed or minned?
No, only if the stat is actually affected.

However, it does activate if, say, a +5 attack pokemon uses swords dance, even though the second +1 won't be applied.
 
Since this is a tangentially related question: Other than the known oddity of giving a +2 boost when it fails, does Gen II Belly Drum have any other oddities related to stat boosts?
 
Since this is a tangentially related question: Other than the known oddity of giving a +2 boost when it fails, does Gen II Belly Drum have any other oddities related to stat boosts?
Specifically, there's a situation I'm curious about; does DrumLax reach +5 or +6? I've heard Belly Drum increases Attack in jumps of +2 (and forgets to check the first one, hence the glitchdrum), but does that mean it can hit +6 when boosting from +0, even though +5 is already capped?

(It matters if you then try to Growl or Charm it back down with Miltank/Umbreon/whatever. I'm wondering whether Drum -> Growl is +4 (ie no longer 999) or +5 (still at 999).
 
Okay, I'll start with what I know for sure. Belly Drum starts by executing Swords Dance's command right away, then checks if mon's hp is above half, and only if so, halves it, and loops into executing SD's command a total or 5 times (so that even a -6 mon is guaranteed to become +6).

From now on, I could be wrong, but I hope I'm not. I'll have to track back more stuff to be sure and check stuff a bit more carefully. Either way, this is how the stat up commands seems to go:

Increment affected stat level by 1, unless it's already +6. If it's already at +6, finish the move now; no effect.
If it's a +2 effect, increment again, unless it's already +6
If the affected stat is already 999, decrement affected stat level by 1, and don't do anything else
If the affected stat is not 999, recalculate EVERY stat according to its stat level, capping it at 999. Apply paralysis/burn penalties.

So, if I'm not mistaken, if a 999 +4 attack mon used SD, its attack level will end up as +5, because +4 + 1 + 1 - 1 = +5. Since Snorlax reaches 999 at +5, assuming it starts from +0 here's how I think it goes.

First SD command: from +0 to +2
Second SD command: from +2 to +4
Third SD command: from +4 to +6
Fourth/Fifth/Sixth SD command: no effect

But let's say Snorlax was somehow at -5:

First SD command: from -5 to -3
Second SD command: from -3 to -1
Third SD command: from -1 to +1
Fourth SD command: from +1 to +3
Fifth SD command: from +3 to +5 (already 999 attack)
Sixth SD command: +5 + 1 - 1 = +5

Again, try not to take any conclusion from this yet, since I could be wrong at some point. I'll try to test it in the game.

BTW, the paralysis/burn glitch is fixed in GSC, since EVERY stat is recalculated ignoring par/brn drops, then they are applied if necessary.
 
So, if I'm interpreting this properly, the game should go like this.
  • Chansey paralyzes Mewtwo
  • Mewtwo uses Amnesia
  • Bye bye Chansey
Or, only boosts related to that certain stat works.
  • Mew is burned by Flamethrower
  • Mew uses Sword Dance
  • RIP Physical walls
Which one is it? Both?
 

Isa

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your interpretation is wrong

chansey paralyzes mewtwo
mewtwo uses amnesia
literally nothing unexpected happens

mew is burned by flamethrower
mew uses swords dance
literally nothing unexpected happens


----

mewtwo paralyzes chansey
mewtwo uses amnesia
chansey's speed is now divided by 16 rather than 4

mew burns snorlax with fire blast
mew uses swords dance
the opposing snorlax is now having his attack divided by 4 rather than 2
 
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your interpretation is wrong

chansey paralyzes mewtwo
mewtwo uses amnesia
literally nothing unexpected happens

mew is burned by flamethrower
mew uses swords dance
literally nothing unexpected happens

----

mewtwo paralyzes chansey
mewtwo uses amnesia
chansey's speed is now divided by 16 rather than 4

mew burns snorlax with fire blast
mew uses swords dance
the opposing snorlax is now having his attack divided by 4 rather than 2
Oh, so it stacks, but doesn't go away.
 

Isa

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yeah you are correct, when i wrote this i was thinking in the terms of "how does this change the stat of the opposing pokemon" and forgot that sdance will indeed remove the drop from the burn.
 
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