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[on site] Little Cup EV Training Guide

Discussion in 'Archives' started by eric the espeon, Sep 1, 2009.

  1. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    I was asked by mingot if I would like to write a EVing guide for Little Cup, happily I actually had one already written on LCF, less happily it was lacking in substance even though it had the basics you needed, so I basically rewrote and massively expanded it. There are still a few sections at the end that I plan to add/finish, and this was partly written while half asleep so please forgive and point out any mistakes.

    dr00 did write a "how to apply this" add on to this guide that I was planing to go over and add, but looking again large parts of it are covered in other guides (Pt EVing manual, distributing EVs in LC), so I will incorporate the other parts and the "applying it" element into the main guide, and some specific demonstrations at the end.

    Places marked with a # for ctrl F need coming back to/thinking about for various reasons. its mostly "note to self" stuff.

    ---------------
    EV Training for Little Cup

    As the Little Cup metagame is played at level 5 rather than the usual level 100, there are some unique difficulties in fully EV training a Pokemon without bringing it over the level 5 limit. This guide will help you to overcome these difficulties and allow you to give your Pokemon any EV spread you want, while staying at or below level 5. This guide will assume that you have a basic knowledge of how EVs and EV training works, and if you do not have such knowledge already, please refer to the EV Training Manual. This guide will not attempt to teach you how to construct and choose EV spreads for Little Cup. For that, please refer to the EV Distribution section of the Little Cup Guide.

    In short, to fully EV train a Pokemon without letting it grow too many levels, adhere to two simple principles:
    1. Gain as few Experience Points per battle as possible
    2. Gain as many EVs per battle as possible
    In practice it's quite hard to stick to those extremely closely, and though the math will be kept to a minimum in this article some understanding is required, and everything else in this guide is about applying those principles effectively.

    Before you start: Always, always remember to keep an untouched clone in case you mess up. EVs can be undone with the right Berries, but there is no way to level down a Pokemon that is at too high a level. Breeding the perfect Pokemon and then having it ruined permanently by poor EV training is not something you want to happen.

    "Spare" EXP before you hit Lv. 6:

    Each Pokemon has a Base EXP rate which determines how quickly it levels up. Depending on which category your Pokemon falls into, you will have a different amount of EXP to use before level 6. If you deposit a Pokemon in the Box, its stats will be recalculated and EVs taken into account (normally you would have to wait for a level up for stat recalculation). This is called the "Box Trick" and it means you can finish training while at level 5 not 4. Despite what some rumors may say, the Box Trick does work in DPPt so long as you are not at level 100, so don't worry about not being able to train your Emerald hatched Pokemon. The Box Trick lets you safely train until you are one EXP from hitting level 6.

    Below is a list of all Pokemon eligible for Little Cup ordered by their Base EXP groups, with the maximum amount of EXP they can gain without reaching level 6 from Lv. 1 (DPPt hatching) and Lv. 5 (ADV hatching). Beware that if you use your full quota as listed here, you will be a single point from levelling up and becoming ineligible for Little Cup.

    (# maybe links to each Pokemon's page from its name, nicer format with HTML table or something, for whoever HTMLises it. Columns for each speed of training?)
    Fluctuating
    From Lv. 1: 111
    From Lv. 5: 46

    Corphish
    Drifloon
    Gulpin
    Makuhita
    Shroomish
    Wailmer

    Fast
    From Lv. 1: 171
    From Lv. 5: 71

    Aipom
    Azurill
    Chingling
    Cleffa
    Duskull
    Glameow
    Happiny
    Igglybuff
    Ledyba
    Misdreavus
    Purugly
    Shuppet
    Skitty
    Snubbull
    Spinarak
    Spoink
    Togepi

    Medium Slow
    From Lv. 1: 178
    From Lv. 5: 43

    Abra
    Bellsprout
    Bulbasaur
    Charmander
    Chikorita
    Cyndaquil
    Gastly
    Geodude
    Machop
    Nidoran♀
    Nidoran♂
    Oddish
    Pidgey
    Poliwag
    Squirtle

    Medium Fast
    From Lv. 1: 215
    From Lv. 5: 90

    Caterpie
    Diglett
    Doduo
    Ekans
    Grimer
    Magnemite
    Mankey
    Meowth
    Onix
    Paras
    Ponyta
    Psyduck
    Rattata
    Sandshrew
    Scyther
    Seel
    Slowpoke
    Spearow
    Venonat
    Vulpix
    Weedle
    Zubat

    Slow
    From Lv. 1: 269
    From Lv. 5: 113

    Chinchou
    Dratini
    Exeggcute
    Houndour
    Larvitar
    Magikarp
    Ralts
    Rhyhorn
    Shellder
    Staryu
    Swinub
    Tentacool

    Erratic
    From Lv. 1: 405
    From Lv. 5: 168

    Anorith
    Clamperl
    Feebas
    Lileep
    Nincada
    Swablu

    Battles Needed To Fully Train

    To know how many battles you will need, and therefore how many EXP you can afford to gain per battle (and whether you need Pokerus) it is advised that you perform a calculation to check how many EVs you will need to gain in battle.

    This section assumes you will be using Magikarp or Starly to train; if you use something else check what EVs it gives, if it gives 1 Speed the following steps are the same and you have nothing to worry about. If the Pokemon gives one EV for any other stat, apply the steps (shown below), but replace the differences for Speed with whatever the Pokemon you are training against gives and EV in. You should not be training against something that gives more than one EV as they all give too many EXP to be practical.

    Choose your EV spread, then take 100 points away from each stat you are investing more than 100 EVs in, and for stats you are investing less than 100 EVs in take away the largest multiple of 10 that you can without dropping into negative numbers. This represents using Vitamins on these stats; yes, it will be expensive.

    The next part is complicated by Magikarp/Starly giving one Speed EV as well as the four EVs per battle you get from the correct Power Item, so it may be slightly tricky to follow:
    1. Divide needed EVs for each non-Speed stat by eight (four without Pokerus)
    2. Round each up
    3. Add up the total then multiply by two (unless you lack Pokerus, in which case don't multiply) and take it away from the needed Speed (if the number drops below 0 you must add multiples of 10 until the result is greater than 0, these are Tamato Berries to compensate for gaining too many Speed EVs while training for other stats).
    4. Divide the remaining needed Speed by ten (five without Pokerus)
    5. Round Speed up
    5. Add the Speed number to each of the other stats. This is the number of battles you will need.

    As an example let's use an Abra which wants a spread of 76 HP / 236 SpA / 196 Spe. Using the correct amount of Vitamins on each leaves 6 HP / 136 SpA / 96 Spe to be earned in battle.

    For our Abra (which does not have Pokerus) this means the following:
    1. Divide each non-Speed stat by 4: 1.5 HP / 34 SpA / 96 Spe
    2. Round up: 2 HP / 34 SpA / 96 Spe
    3. Take the non-Speed total away from the Speed: 96 - 36 = 60 so: 2 HP / 3. SpA / 60 Spe
    4. Divide the Speed by 5: 2 HP / 34 SpA / 12 Spe
    5. Round up Speed (not needed in this case)
    6. Add up total: 2 + 34 + 12 = 48

    So Abra will need 48 battles to be fully EV trained. If you look back to step 4 you can see which Power Items it will need to hold, and for how many battles each. Two Battles with a + HP Item, 34 with a + SpA Item and 12 with a + Spe Item.

    For an example of a Pokemon that does not need Speed EVs see Demonstration B (#link to that part of the guide)

    It is worth noting that whenever you round down a number, you will gain 2 more EVs than you need. For our Abra it will have a final spread of 78 HP / 136 SpA / 96 Spe, which is still inside the 510 limit. A vast majority of the time this does not matter, but when repeatedly rounding down on EV Spreads with a total very close to 510 EVs you may run into problems. Careful use of EV reducing Berries and planing out/keeping exact track of EVs given, and in some cases reducing vitamin use, will always be able to get you out of this. For an example see Demonstration C (#link to that part of the guide)

    Now, check the spare EXP from the previous section against the number of battles you need to win to fully EV train your Pokemon. This gives you an indication of how many EXP you can afford to gain per battle. If the number of battles is greater than the spare EXP then you will need to catch Pokerus (if your Pokemon is or was infected with Pokerus then it will gain double EVs) and go through the steps again in order to get the desired spread. If not then you are in the clear! It is well worth catching Pokerus if it is available as it speeds up the actual training process massively.


    Minimizing EXP Gain Per Battle
    How to get only one EXP point per battle.

    The main difference between EV Training for Little Cup and for any other metagame is that you must be extraordinarily careful not to gain too much EXP. This section will teach you how to have your Pokemon gain only a single experience point per battle.

    Since you will be gaining most of your EVs via Power Items, it's best to just look for Pokemon that give few EXP per battle, unlike the EVing hotspots used for normal EV training. Wild Magikarp give lowest EXP of any Pokemon that can be found, and are easy to find, even if fishing is slightly slow. Simply fish anywhere with the Old Rod. In Diamond or Pearl they range in level from three to 10, and in Platinum from three to 15. In HeartGold and SoulSilver they come from level 2 to 20 when Surfing in a varity of places, Blackthorn City being an easy to access example. Depending on how you received the Pokemon you intend to train (via Trade, Pal Park or Home Grown) and how many spare EXP you have, you will have to run from Magikarp above a certain level, because by beating all Magikarp you encounter will often lead to gaining too many EXP and missing the Lv. 5 limit.

    By making one of your Pokemon (other than the one you are EV training) hold an EXP Share, you will halve the EXP that your Pokemon in training receives. To split the EXP still further you will need to switch in multiple Pokemon; the total number of Pokemon needed in the battle to hit the magic one EXP Gain for your baby depends on how you obtained the Pokemon and the level of the Magikarp:

    (# this section can get a nice table)
    Home Grown

    1 EXP for Home Grown:
    Lv. 2 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 3 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 6 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 9 and above N/A

    2 EXP for Home Grown:
    Lv. 2 Magikarp need 1 in total
    Lv. 3 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 6 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 9 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 11 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 12 Magikarp need 6 in total

    3 EXP for Home Grown:
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 9 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 11 Magikarp need 4-5 in total
    Lv. 12 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 13 Magikarp need 5-6 in total
    Lv. 14 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 15 Magikarp need 6 in total

    4 EXP for Home Grown:

    Lv. 6 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 9 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 12 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 13 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 14 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 15 Magikarp need 5 in total

    5 EXP for Home Grown:
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 11 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 12 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 14 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 15 Magikarp need 4 in total

    Pal Parked


    1 EXP Pal Parked:
    Lv. 3 Magikarp need 4-6 in total
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 5-6 in total
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 6 Magikarp and above N/A

    2 EXP Pal Parked:
    Lv. 3 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 3-4 in total
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 4-5 in total
    Lv. 6 Magikarp need 5-6 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 9 Magikarp need 5-6 in total

    3 EXP Pal Parked:
    Lv. 3 Magikarp need 4-5 in total
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 6 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 4-5 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 9 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 11 Magikarp need 6 in total

    4 EXP Pal Parked:
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 6 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 11 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 12 Magikarp need 5-6 in total
    Lv. 13 Magikarp need 6 in total

    5 EXP Pal Parked:
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 11 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 13 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 14 Magikarp need 6 in total

    Traded

    1 EXP Traded:
    Lv. 3 Magikarp need 4-6 in total
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 5-6 in total
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 6 and above N/A

    2 EXP Traded:
    Lv. 3 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 4-5 in total
    Lv. 6 Magikarp need 5-6 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 6 in total

    3 EXP Traded:
    Lv. 3 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 5-6 in total
    Lv. 9 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 6 in total

    4 EXP Traded:
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 6 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 9 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 11 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 12 Magikarp need 6 in total

    5 EXP Traded:
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 9 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 11 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 12 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 13 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 14 Magikarp need 6 in total

    Another option is to chain low level Pokemon (for information on how to chain please consult the Chaining Guide (#link to chaining guide)); this has the advantage of keeping the level consistent and being relatively quick once the chain starts for those experienced at it. However, the lowest EXP per battle it is possible to get per battle from a chained Pokemon in Diamond and Pearl for Pal Parked or Traded Pokemon is two, so some spreads may require Magikarp training or Platinum. PokeRadar is also unavailable in HG/SS, so will not be an option for everyone.

    The best option for chaining is generally Starly which can be found at level 2 on Route 201 (both DP and Pt), and is found 50% of the time for easy chain starting. Starly gives two EXP to Home Grown Pokemon if all six Pokemon participate in the battle, but will give a minimum of four to both Pal Parked and Traded Pokemon. Another option is Kricketot, which is rarer (10% on Route 201) and can only be found at level 2 on Platinum at night. It gives slightly lower EXP than Starly, it two minimum.

    (# this can get a table, number of exp gained down the side, where it came from along the top)
    Lv. 2 Starly

    Home Grown
    1 EXP: 5
    2 EXP: 3
    4 EXP: 2

    Pal Parked:
    1 EXP: N/A
    2 EXP: 5
    3 EXP: 4
    4 EXP: 3
    6 EXP: 2

    Traded:
    1 EXP: N/A
    2 EXP: 5
    3 EXP: 4
    4 EXP: 3
    6 EXP: 2

    Lv. 2 Kricketot

    Home Grown
    1 EXP: 4
    2 EXP: 3
    3 EXP: 2

    Pal Parked:
    1 EXP: 6
    2 EXP: 5
    3 EXP: 3
    4 EXP: 3
    5 EXP: 2

    Traded:
    1 EXP: N/A
    2 EXP: 5
    3 EXP: 4
    4 EXP: 3
    6 EXP: 2

    If your Pokemon does not want Speed EVs, or you have got as many as you want, use Tamato Berries every 10 battles (5 with Pokerus), or less when nearing the EV limit, to get rid of the Speed EVs that Magikarp give and make room for more useful EVs. Always keep a careful count of EVs and make sure you have the correct Power Item.

    The larger a difference between your Pokemon's spare EXP and the number of battles needed to fully train it, the more EXP you can get away with gaining per battle. However, you must be very careful to keep count of how much EXP you have received and how much more you can gain before level 6, as well as how many more battles you need to fully train.

    This may seem arduous, but once you get in practice both methods are not particularly difficult, though still harder than standard EV training. The extra time spent EV training a Little Cup Pokemon is more than compensated by the time you save breeding one due to lower IVs being required for a "perfect" Pokemon, as seen in the Little Cup Breeding Guide (#link when its up, I've asked Swinub to post it).

    Demonstration B

    To demonstrate of how to follow the steps with a spread for a Pokemon which does not want Speed, here is Munchlax who wants a spread of 236 HP / 36 Def / 236 SpD.

    First, take 100 points away from each stat you are investing more than 100 EVs in, and for stats you are investing less than 100 EVs in take away the largest multiple of 10 that you can without dropping into negative numbers. This gives: 136 HP / 6 Def / 136 SpD

    For our Munchlax (which has Pokerus)
    1. Since there is no Speed, divide each stat by 4: 34 HP / 1.5 Def / 34 SpD
    2. Round up: 34 HP / 2 Def / 34 SpD
    Steps 3, 4 and 5 can be skipped as they only relate directly to Speed.
    6. Add up total: 34 + 2 + 34 = 70
    So Munchlax will need 70 battles to be fully EV trained. If you look at step 2 you can see which Power Items it will need to hold, and for how many battles each. Two Battles with a + Def Item, 34 with a + Def Item and another 34 with a + SpD Item.

    The important thing to remember with no or very low speed spreads is to remember to use plenty of Tamato Berries (which reduce your Speed EVs by 10), with no Speed spreads just use one every 5 battles (10 without Pokerus) and right near the end if your spread can't afford to have a few useless EVs in Speed use them every battle. For low speed spreads (where you would naturally gain more Speed EVs from just Magikarp/Starly than you need), simply wait until there are enough battles remaining to give you the correct amount of Speed EVs, and use Tamatoes to cut your Speed to zero. Then continue battling, and let Magikarp/Starly give you all the Speed you need.

    Demonstration C

    In the previous demonstrations I have tried to use competitively reasonable spreads, however since the following problem is so rare I have had to resort to using specific non max IVs to find an example that works. The issues brought up below should not worry EV trainers, it will virtually never happen and is only included for completeness. The times when you may need to understand the below are when you are aiming for an EV spread that uses almost every one of the 510 allowed (508 and some unusual 504 spreads), and invests a number less than 100 ending in 2, 4, or 6 in several stats.

    To demonstrate the possible problems rounding up can cause, a Gulpin who wants a spread of 116 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 12 SpA / 12 SpD / 104 Spe (hits 11 Spe with a IV of 14), total 508 and has Pokerus.

    Now, following through the steps gives us:
    Remove up to 10 multiples of 10 to reduce each stat: 16 HP / 152 Atk / 2 Def / 2 SpA / 2 SpD / 4 Spe

    1. Divide needed EVs for each non-Speed stat by eight: 2 HP / 19 Atk / 0.25 Def / 0.25 SpA / 0.25 SpD
    2. Round each up: 2 HP / 19 Atk / 1 Def / 1 SpA / 1 SpD
    3. Add up the total then multiply by two, and take it away from the needed Speed (if the number drops below 0 you must add multiples of 10 until the result is greater than 0, these are Tamato Berries to compensate for gaining too many Speed EVs while training for other stats): 4-48=-44 may not go below 0, so -44+(5*10)=6
    4. Divide the remaining needed Speed by ten: 0.6
    5. Round Speed up: 1
    5. Add the Speed number to each of the other stats. This is the number of battles you will need: 25

    However, there is a problem. If you try to do this in game, you will end up with 116 HP (100 from Vitamins, 2 battles at 8 EVs each) / 252 Atk (100 from Vitamins, 19 battles at 8 EVs each) / 18 Def (10 from Vitamins, 1 battle for 8 EVs) / 18 SpA (10 from Vitamins, 1 battle for 8 EVs) / 18 SpD (10 from Vitamins, 1 battle for 8 EVs) / 108 Spe (100 from Vitamins, 48 from Magikarp while training for other stats, 50 removed by Tamato. Or to avoid inefficiency 50 from Vitamins, 48 from Magikarp while training for other stats, one battle for 10 EVs)

    The total is 530, which as we all know is well above the 510 limit for all EVs. Why is this you ask? None of the stats gained more points! Because too many of the stats use more EVs than they need for the stats that they want. This is because with Pokerus you gain 8 EVs per battle, quite a lump, forcing you off the minimum needed EVs on numbers that end with 2, 4, and 6 which you want less than 104 EVs in and use Vitamins on. Stats you are investing more than 104 in should have no problems, (unless they have an even IV you are correcting as this causes you to add a number of EVs that does not divide by 8) because they will always need an exact multiple of 8 EVs from battles. In a vast majority of cases the two "buffer" points between the 508 that are useful and the 510 that is possible will remove any problems you encounter, but occasionally something like this example will happen.

    Even in the worst case scenario it should be possible to work around, but it can be very messy and will take a few extra battles. In this case you will need to not use any Vitamins on Def, SpA, and SpD, do four battles for each (32 EVs) then use two Tamatoes which will bring them to 12 EVs each. This will reduce the EVs for each of those stats by 6 and the total by 18, which is not enough as the spread total would still be 512. Speed is the stat causing this problem, and unfortunately it is much harder to solve as each battle will give the same Speed EVs that you can remove with Tamato, so you can't use them together to adjust the number the EVs end with. One way to get around this is to do your first few battles without Pokerus, keeping track of how this will effect then other stats, and bring your speed down like that. A generally better and easier to understand way is to use the Macho Brace instead of the Speed Power Item. One battle against Magikarp with the Macho Brace will give 4 Speed EVs, to add to the 98 it has from other battles and Vitamins, so it needs two to reach or pass 104. With two battles holding the Macho Brace you hit 106 Spe, still more than you need but low enough to put you at the 510 limit. This will leave you with a spread of: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 12 SpA / 12 SpD / 106 Spe, which has a total of 510. Perfect.

    Together these actions will cause you to do four more battles than you would otherwise have to do, but the minimum EXP you can gain is still well within what is possible without levelling over 5. You will still need to be extraordinarily careful in this kind of situation, use EV reducing berries at exactly the right times, and occasionally on a very tight spread wait until the end before applying the last Vitamin (allowing room for Speed to accumulate 10 extra EVs before you erase them), but in theory every spread is attainable.

    ----------

    So, any suggestions about the more finished sections? What questions would non-LC players be asking that I have not answered? What title would be less bland?
  2. Xia

    Xia aka Lone Gansel
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    I believe elaborating on using Power items to EV train would help, since I didn't understand why I would only train against Magikarp until you mention them in the last apragraph of the Minimizing EXP section. Perhaps adding something like:

    Having your Pokemon hold a Power Item allows it to gain EVs in stats that Magikarp cannot give. Let's say you're training for Attack EVs; if you're Pokemon is holding the Power Bracer and defeats a Magiarp, you will receive four Attack EVs and one Speed EV (iirc this is correct without Pokerus). By using a Tamato Berry to wipe the Speed EVs from your pokemon, you can effectively gain four EVs in the required stat while only defeating Magikarp.

    Or something along those lines. Also, make sure that numbers lower than eleven are spelled out (it's grammatically correct). I'll look through for spelling errors later.
  3. jumpluff

    jumpluff you stare right through me
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    Actually, it's numbers less than ten. (Not including ten.)

    1 2 3
  4. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    I did try to limit the overlap between this and the standard EVing guide, but a quick section on the effect of power items could be handy.

    And I'll fix up the numbers issue, but will leave the numbers that are parts of lists/tables. Should things like "level 5" be expanded as well?
  5. Xia

    Xia aka Lone Gansel
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    I tend to leave levels alone, just because it's not expanded upon in-game (jumpluff, I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong ;])

    Some nit-picks:
    Also, anytime you refer back to a step, I would capitalize the word "step" (ie. Back in Step One...), since it is a title.

    I would also put any contractions you use (EXP, EVs, ect) in parentheses after using the entire term the first time; it allows the reader to understand any unfamiiar contractions used in the guide (not entirely needed, but it's how I was taught).
  6. dr00

    dr00

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    i still think that you should have calculations involving the use of pokerus with a note at the end to double the calculations to figure out how many one would need without pokerus.
    pokerus is really quite common to be honest.


    also, i think something should be added to explain in more detail what the box trick is (or a link to it), and a more overt explanation that you train up to right before lv. 6. when i was training, i would always freak out and not know if i could finish my pokemon in time, i would often switch several times and end up training them by lv. 3 and then use a rare candy.
    if anything got to lv. 5, i would freak out cos i would always forget that you can still train past lv. 6


    also the running from pokemon of a certain level, i don't believe that this method should be suggested, or at least not the only method.
    a table showing how much exp a magikarp would give per level for each of the different exp tiers along with your graph showing the total amount of experience to work with should work well imo.

    i battled a few lv. 10 magikarp on several occasions because after battling a bunch of lv. 3's, it didn't matter.
    sometimes it can take a long time to get a magikarp to show up while fishing, and i found i'd rather just battle everything that popped up to save on overall time.


    i think that saving time and making shortcuts in the entire process should be more apparent in this guide, as EV training for little cup can take a lot of time compared to training pokemon without a level restriction.
    i would argue that it's the main offputting factor for new people who want to try to train in LC themselves.



    i'll edit this post later with actual contributions to be added to it if you agree and i'll read it over again later for grammar and such as well.

    and do you want me to consolidate the totodile guide for the demonstration?
  7. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    sounds good, changed most a while back but doing the rest now.

    Do you mean the first time I write EXP put it as "Experience Points (EXP)"? If yes, ok.

    Its slightly easier to explain the way I have, I think, but if the majority of people have pokerus available and can easily infect, then Ill swap it.

    Ok, Ill add in something about how the box trick works.

    Yep, I intend to add more numbers and turn that into a table.


    What tricks do you know of that you can use to save time that Ive missed?

    A grammar check would be nice when its a bit closer to done.

    Probably not, its good but I'm trying not to double up on info such as how LC EV spreads are made, or general EV training information, but link to the relevant guides. I'm going to write up a couple of examples with different Pokemon who have odd situations.
  8. dr00

    dr00

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    as i said, i honestly don't know anyone without pokerus.

    at any rate, just adding that Pokerus gives 8 EVs and without, you get 4, along with calculations side-by-side should be good as well.


    awesome. i have a feeling this will be extremely helpful.
    let me know if you want help with this.

    nothing, really, just things like vitamins and pokerus, then a table showing how much total exp you have to work with and how much you'll be expected to get when battling magikarp (with and without exp. share) will help allow people to battle whatever pops up instead of running from high level magikarp.

    the actual fishing is the biggest time sink


    so you're just going to link to that one then?

    if so, then cool beans. i thought you were going to consolidate it into this guide and not use the original.
  9. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    ok, I'll change it then.


    I think I added pretty much all the data needed yesterday, unless you think its useful to include situations where you gain more than 5 EXP per battle? If more is going to be added I'll show you through the method I use, com on #littlecup sometime if you have irc. It would be great not to have to do another load of mind numbingly boring calculations...


    mmk, Ill try and rework some of it to make it clear what you're aiming for (quickly/efficiently train before Lv. 6, not train in the absolute minimum time).



    What I'm going to do is link to guides like the ev manual, and the LC EV spread guide (your previous example had a lot of overlap with both of these), and add in two specific examples of odd cases to the end as well as having a running example (Abra) through the rest of the guide. Toto will not be used, but the general idea and maybe some parts of the text for the example will be used.
  10. Diesel

    Diesel

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    This may sound a little conceited coming from someone who just wrote a chaining guide, but the mention of chaining here could be quite helpful, IMO. Chaining allows you to encounter the same pokemon as many times as necessary. Not only that, but the level of the pokemon chained will remain constant throughout the chain. So let's say you want to fight only level 3 Shinx, but they might only 12.5% the time or so on Route 202 (not sure on this, this is just an example). With the use of chaining, you only need to rely on luck to encounter one of them, then you can fight as many as you need. As a matter of fact, I think Little Cup might be the type of EV training where chaining is most important. Anyway, up to you of course, tell me what you think.
  11. dr00

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    Diesel i believe magikarp were chosen because they give such low exp.

    i'm not sure how much shinx gives, but it could definitely be worth a look.



    eric, what server?
    i need to redownload it again, but i can hop on sometime so we can talk more in realtime
  12. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Interesting idea, Ill have to check to see if any/many of the chain able Pokemon give low enough EXP... Looking through the lower base EXP givers:

    Starly - 56
    Pidgey - 55
    Poochyena - 55
    Kricketot - 54
    Ledyba - 54
    Spinarak - 54
    Wurmple - 54
    Zubat - 54
    Caterpie - 53
    Sunkern - 52
    Weedle - 52
    Wooper - 52
    Wynaut - 44
    Igglybuff - 39
    Cleffa - 37
    Azurill - 33
    Magikarp - 20

    Cleffa can be found at Lv. 12 on D/P gives 63, which can be chopped down to 5 EXP per battle at the lowest.. Zubat can be found at 3 on Pt and 4 on D/P, Ravaged Path 78% or 65% of the time actually, gives 23 or 30 per battle. Krickentot can give 15 EXP if you find a Lv. 2 one (Pt), or 23 for a Lv. 3 one (DP). Starly gets a mention for being easy to find (50% on Route 201) and able to get at Lv. 2 on both games, gives 16 so lowest EXP you can get from it is 2.

    Ill probably keep the Karp table but have a few lowest levels noted down for those who prefer chaining.

    edit: #littlecup on irc.synirc.net same as other smogon channels
  13. Diesel

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    Hmm maybe everything is too high, I'll leave the details to you, chaining COULD just be something to speed up the process, IDK though.
  14. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Starly seems like worth mentioning, I'll probably not actually put much info about chaining up (just a para and some Pokemon worth using) and link to your guide once it gets on site.
  15. Diesel

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    Sounds good, that's what I would do.
  16. dr00

    dr00

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    it would certainly save on time for people who are decent at chaining i would think.


    maybe also mention specific areas that aren't too difficult to chain in where you can find low level starly (and others that may be mentioned)
  17. franky

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    ---------------
    EV Training for Little Cup

    As the Little Cup metagame is played at level 5 rather than the usual level 100, or the occasional level 50, there are some difficult ways in fully EV training a Pokemon without bringing over the level 5 limit. This guide will help you to overcome these difficulties, and allow you to give your Pokemon any EV spread you want, while staying at level 5. This guide will assume a basic knowledge of how EVs and EV training works, if you don't know that already please refer to the EV Training manual. This guide will also attempt to teach you about constructing and choosing EV spreads for Little Cup, for that use the EV Distrubution section of the Little Cup Guide.

    In short, to fully EV train a Pokemon without letting it grow too many levels adhere to two simple principles:
    1. Gain as few Experience Points per battle as possible
    2. Gain as many EVs per battle as possible
    In practice its a lot more complex than that, though the math will be kept to a minimum in this article because some understanding is required, and everything else in this guide is about applying those principles effectively.

    Always remember to keep an untouched clone in case you mess up, EVs can be undone with the right Berries, but there is no way to level down a Pokemon that is too high. Breeding the perfect Pokemon then having it ruined permanently by poor EV training, is not something you want to happen.

    "Spare" EXP before you hit Lv. 6:

    Each Pokemon has a Base EXP rate, which determines how quickly it levels up depending on which category your Pokemon falls into and you will have a different amount of EXP to use before level 6. The "Box Trick" (elaborate on the box trick) does work in DPPt, as long as you are not at level 100, so don't worry about not being able to train your Emerald hatched Pokemon.

    Below is a list of all Pokemon eligible for Little Cup ordered by their Base EXP groups, with the maximum amount of EXP they can gain without reaching level 6 from Lv. 1 (DPPt hatching) and Lv. 5 (ADV hatching). Beware that if you use your full quota as listed here, you will be a single point from leveling up and becoming ineligible for Little Cup.

    Use CTRL-F to find your Pokemon quickly.

    (# links to each Pokemon's page from its name, possibly nicer format with HTML table or something)
    Fluctuating
    From Lv. 1: 111
    From Lv. 5: 46

    Corphish
    Drifloon
    Gulpin
    Makuhita
    Shroomish
    Wailmer

    Fast
    From Lv. 1: 171
    From Lv. 5: 71

    Aipom
    Azurill
    Chingling
    Cleffa
    Duskull
    Glameow
    Happiny
    Igglybuff
    Ledyba
    Misdreavus
    Purugly
    Shuppet
    Skitty
    Snubbull
    Spinarak
    Spoink
    Togepi

    Medium Slow
    From Lv. 1: 178
    From Lv. 5: 43

    Abra
    Bellsprout
    Bulbasaur
    Charmander
    Chikorita
    Cyndaquil
    Gastly
    Geodude
    Machop
    Nidoran♀
    Nidoran♂
    Oddish
    Pidgey
    Poliwag
    Squirtle

    Medium Fast
    From Lv. 1: 215
    From Lv. 5: 90

    Caterpie
    Diglett
    Doduo
    Ekans
    Grimer
    Magnemite
    Mankey
    Meowth
    Onix
    Paras
    Ponyta
    Psyduck
    Rattata
    Sandshrew
    Scyther
    Seel
    Slowpoke
    Spearow
    Venonat
    Vulpix
    Weedle
    Zubat

    Slow
    From Lv. 1: 269
    From Lv. 5: 113

    Chinchou
    Dratini
    Exeggcute
    Houndour
    Larvitar
    Magikarp
    Ralts
    Rhyhorn
    Shellder
    Staryu
    Swinub
    Tentacool

    Eratic
    From Lv. 1: 405
    From Lv. 5: 168

    Anorith
    Clamperl
    Feebas
    Lileep
    Nincada
    Swablu

    Battles Needed To Fully Train

    To know how many battles you will need, and therefore how many EXP you can afford to gain per battle, and whether you need PokeRus, it is advised that you perform a calculation as to how many EVs you will need to gain in battle.

    Choose your EV spread, then take 100 away from each stat you are investing more than 100 in, and for stats you are investing less than 100 in, take away the largest multiple of 10 that you can without dropping into negative numbers. This represents using Vitamins on these stats, yes it will be expensive.

    As an example, lets use Abra who wants a spread of 76 HP / 236 SpA / 196 Spe. Using the correct amount of Vitamins on each gives: 6 HP / 136 SpA / 96 Spe

    The next part is complicated, by Magikarp giving one Speed EV as well as the four EVs per battle you get from a power item, so may be slightly tricky to follow:
    1. Divide needed EVs for each non-Speed stat by four (eight with PokeRus)
    2. Round each up
    3. Add up the total (multiply by two with PokeRus) and take it away from the needed Speed
    4. Divide the remaining needed Speed by five
    5. Round Speed up
    5. Add the Speed number to each of the other stats. This is the number of battles you will need.

    For our Abra (which does not have PokeRus) this means the following:
    1. Divie each non-Speed stat by 4: 1.5 HP / 34 SpA / 96 Spe
    2. Round up: 2 HP / 34 SpA / 96 Spe
    3. Take the non-Speed total away from the speed: 96 - 36 = 60 so: 2 HP / 3. SpA / 60 Spe
    4. Divide the Speed by 5: 2 HP / 34 SpA / 12 Spe
    5. Round up Speed (not needed in this case)
    6. Add up total: 2 + 34 + 12 = 48
    So Abra will need 48 battles to be fully EV trained. If you look back to step 4 you can see which Power Items it will need to held, and for how many battles each. Two Battles with a + HP Item, 34 with a + SpA Item and 12 with a + Spe Item.

    For an example of a Pokemon that does not need Speed EVs see Demonstration B (#link to that part of the guide)

    It is worth noting that whenever you round down a number, you are wasting four times whatever was after the decimal point (normally .5, leading to a two point waste). Most of the time this doesn't matter, but when rounding down repeatedly on EV Spreads with a total very close to 510 you may run into problems. Careful use of EV reducing Berries and planing out/keeping exact track of EVs given, will always be able to get you out of this. For an example see Demonstration C (#link to that part of the guide)

    Now, check the spare EXP from the previous section against the number of battles you need to win to fully train your Pokemon. If the number of battles is greater than the spare EXP then you will need to catch PokeRus (if your Pokemon is or was infected with PokeRus then it will gain double EVs) and go through the steps again in order to get the desired spread. If not, then you are in the clear! But it is well worth catching PokeRus if it is available as it speeds up the actual training process massively.


    Minimizing EXP Gain Per Battle
    How to get only one EXP point per battle.

    The main difference between EV Training for Little Cup and for any other metagame is that you must be extraordinarily careful not to gain too much EXP, this section will teach you how to have your Pokemon gain only a single experience point per battle.

    Wild Magikarp give lowest EXP of any Pokemon can be found, and are easy to battle. Simply fish anywhere with an Old Rod. In Diamond or Pearl they range in level from three to 10, in Platinum from three to 15, but depending on how you received the Pokemon you intend to train (via Trade, Pal Park or Home Grown) you will have to run from them above a certain level.

    By making one of your Pokemon (other than the one you are EV training) hold an EXP Share, you will halve the EXP that your Pokemon in training receives. To split the EXP still further you will need to switch in multiple Pokemon, the total number of Pokemon needed in the battle to hit the magic one EXP Gain for your baby depends on how you obtained the Pokemon, and the level of the Magikarp:

    (#this section can get a nice table, more data?)

    Home Grown

    1 EXP for Home Grown:
    Lv. 3 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 6 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 9 and above N/A

    2 EXP for Home Grown:
    Lv. 3 Magikarp need 1-2 in total
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 1-2 in total
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 6 Magikarp need 3-4 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 4-5 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 4-5 in total
    Lv. 9 Magikarp need 5-6 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 5-6 in total
    Lv. 11 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 12 Magikarp need 6 in total

    3 EXP for Home Grown:
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 9 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 11 Magikarp need 4-5 in total
    Lv. 12 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 13 Magikarp need 5-6 in total
    Lv. 14 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 15 Magikarp need 6 in total

    4 EXP for Home Grown:

    Lv. 6 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 9 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 12 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 13 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 14 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 15 Magikarp need 5 in total

    5 EXP for Home Grown:
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 11 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 12 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 14 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 15 Magikarp need 4 in total

    Pal Parked


    1 EXP Pal Parked:
    Lv. 3 Magikarp need 4-6 in total
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 5-6 in total
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 6 Magikarp and above N/A

    2 EXP Pal Parked:
    Lv. 3 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 3-4 in total
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 4-5 in total
    Lv. 6 Magikarp need 5-6 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 9 Magikarp need 5-6 in total

    3 EXP Pal Parked:
    Lv. 3 Magikarp need 4-5 in total
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 6 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 4-5 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 9 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 11 Magikarp need 6 in total

    4 EXP Pal Parked:
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 6 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 11 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 12 Magikarp need 5-6 in total
    Lv. 13 Magikarp need 6 in total

    5 EXP Pal Parked:
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 11 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 13 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 14 Magikarp need 6 in total

    Traded

    1 EXP Traded:
    Lv. 3 Magikarp need 4-6 in total
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 5-6 in total
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 6 and above N/A

    2 EXP Traded:
    Lv. 3 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 4-5 in total
    Lv. 6 Magikarp need 5-6 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 6 in total

    3 EXP Traded:
    Lv. 3 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 5-6 in total
    Lv. 9 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 6 in total

    4 EXP Traded:
    Lv. 4 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 6 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 8 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 9 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 11 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 12 Magikarp need 6 in total

    5 EXP Traded:
    Lv. 5 Magikarp need 2 in total
    Lv. 7 Magikarp need 3 in total
    Lv. 9 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 10 Magikarp need 4 in total
    Lv. 11 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 12 Magikarp need 5 in total
    Lv. 13 Magikarp need 6 in total
    Lv. 14 Magikarp need 6 in total


    This may seem arduous, but there really is no other efficient way. Depending on how much of a difference there is between your Pokemon's, spare EXP and the number of battles needed to fully train it, you can get away with beating higher level Magikarp, but you must be very careful and keep in mind how much EXP you have received and how much more you can take.

    If your Pokemon does not want Speed EVs, or you have got as many as you want, use Tamato Berries every 10 battles (5 with PokeRus), or less when nearing the EV limit, to get rid of the Speed EVs that Magikarp give and make room for more useful EVs. Always keep a careful count of EVs and make sure you have the correct Power Item, and that it's attached for only as long as you need it.


    Demonstration B

    To demonstrate what happens with a Pokemon which does not want Speed, here is Munchlax who wants a spread of 236 HP / 36 Def / 236 SpD.

    #steps/explanation

    Demonstration C
    To demonstrate the possible problems rounding up can cause, a Drifloon who wants a spread of 36 HP / 36 Atk / 40 Def (This would only happen to correct for a less than 31 IV) / 196 SpA / 4 SpD / 196 Spe

    #steps/explanation

    ---

    Comments in parathesis, Bold for changes, and The bolded RED indicates that I changed the wording on those specfic words you bolded. Other than that gj.
  18. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    franky, agree with most but a few, not so much. I prefer my:
    to your
    which flows... oddly.

    Also:
    Is true, you changed it so it said it would try and teach you. I meant to say it is not going to try.

    Mine:
    Yours:
    This changes the meaning again, I am not minimizing the math because understanding is required, I am stating that some understanding is required even though I have kept it to a minimum.

    Changed most of the others, thanks. Also added most of the other changes I have been meaning to do for a while, only the two examples left to do I think.
  19. franky

    franky
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    Yeah, i'm not used to editing first person speaking thats why :P
  20. Erodent

    Erodent

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    Hello eric the espeon, I'm going to proofread this for you. I basically made some parts sound better / complete because a you have a lot of sentence fragments.

    I'd recomend changing "PokeRus" to "Pokerus" since it's what most sites use.

    Edits are in bold red;
    Some comments are in bold blue

    EV Training for Little Cup

    Battles Needed to Fully Train

    Mininizing the EXP Gain per Battle



    Nice job!
  21. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Thanks a lot Erodent, lots of punctuation things..
    Fixed them all other than the sentence shortening in places (will do soon) and this:
    I had "and" in the place of to because I list the spare EXP from level 1 to 6 and level 5 to 6, not from 1 to 5.
  22. mingot

    mingot free agent
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    ete, please let me know when all of the changes from the checkers are integrated into your post. I am reading over it and see some corrections, but am not sure that the OP is completely up to date.
  23. yayece

    yayece

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    Out of curiosity... Is there a way of doing this in the ADV generation? It seems like it's doubly hard since your hatched guys start at level 5, and you don't have access to the Power items.
  24. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin Smells
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    EV Training for Little Cup
    "Spare" EXP before you hit Lv. 6:

    Battles Needed To Fully Train

    Minimizing EXP Gain Per Battle
    How to get only one EXP point per battle.

  25. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    I have added all corrections so far suggested by Erodent and Eo, or made an alternate change by rewording the section. Sorry for the delay, should've got round to this sooner.

    Thanks very much Eo and Erodent.

    I do not know, this was brought up on #littlecup earlier today and... Without Power Items (and without Serebii's easily searchable encounter level thing which only exists for the 4th gen) it is a lot harder to be totally sure. I can check specific spreads without massive difficulty, and prove that they are possible, but its hard to be totally sure that a spread is impossible because I may have missed a Pokemon to train against that is hidden away somewhere (it seems the best Pokemon to EV train HP against is Lv. 5 Mirage Island Wynaut >_>).

    I would not be surprised if a few odd spreads were indeed impossible in the 3rd Gen, but the vast majority should be. Not sure of the best way to handle this when ADV LC becomes a played metagame, having something like the illegal IV spread checker for EV spreads.. I think in this case it would be absolutely horrible to program, and only affect things in a tiny minority of cases.

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