Challenge One of the hardest Pokemon questions of all time

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That's weird. According to Bulbapedia, ColorChange will turn dual type into a single type, so a sableye should chance to pure Ghost type after being hit. Or because he's already ghost type so this won't work?
I will try to test this in-game. Will post result later
It's because Sableye is already Ghost-type. Same thing with Dark moves. And on Spiritomb.
I swear, we need to get the answer from the guy who came up with this cause I think we are all about to go insane (or in some of our cases, including me, more insane).
 
Regarding Skill Swap Colour Change, unless I have made a mistake concerning game mechanics, I believe the analysis I did actually proves that it cannot work as a solution. You can see it here.

Could it simply be that the quizmaster was mistaken? That he found a solution he thought would work, posted the question, and then found out it didn't work anyway? I mean, this thread has seen a couple of very thorough analyses exploring every possible option, and found exceptions that counter every possible strategy. A few solutions could work assuming a cooperative opponent, but unless the foe is tailored to be beaten by the chosen strategy, everything seems to fail. There simply is no correct answer to the question.
It is of course possible that there is no solution to the puzzle, but there is not yet proof that there is none.
However, it is also very possible that we are not working on a solution to the actual puzzle that the quizmaster provided, since it was translated from Japanese originally, and a small difference in how the question is phrased might have a large impact on the possibility of finding a solution.

In my original post that I linked above I read the requirement to "be able to hit every Pokemon super effectively" as being able to hit a Pokemon of any species, taking into account all available abilities and legal movesets, for super effective damage. However, I am not sure anymore if this reading of the requirements is possible to fulfill. In fact, I am relatively sure it is impossible, but for different reasons than one might expect: If every legal set is to be taken into account, what about an Electrode with only Explosion? None of the solutions discussed up until now could hit this Pokemon at all, since it will have fainted itself before they even have the ability to act. And to be able to hit a Pokemon super effectively certainly would necessitate to be able to hit it in the first place. This might sound like a bullshit objection, but it shows how careful one must be when wording a question like this to obtain the answer that one would expect.

There are other possible readings, however. Since it was explicitly mentioned that all possible abilities need to be taken into account, that part of the puzzle is not open to interpretation. However, nothing was said about the movesets. That means a few different alternative readings are possible:

1. Find a Pokemon using a set of up to three moves so that there existst a scenario in which it is able to hit an opposing Pokemon of any species, taking into account all available abilites, for super effective damage in a 1v1 situation.

The main difference between this reading and the first is that not every possible moveset needs to be taken into account, there only needs to be one moveset for each different Pokemon that can be hit super effectively. This actually changes the puzzle a lot. For example, Arceus, who usually stops Skill Swap Colour Change, gets Role Play. Under the condition that Arceus uses it this move, a standard Skill Swap Colour Change set will now work on it. However, I believe this reading of the puzzle was already solved by this set:

Kecleon
Ability: Protean
-Skill Swap
-Brick Break
-Flame Thrower

All Pokemon that cannot be affected by Skill Swap are hit super effectively by this set naturally. Everything else learns a normal type move with which to change itself to normal type, and make itself vulnerable to Brick Break, except Weedle, which is hit SE naturally as well.

This reading is sort of unfulfilling, though, since it does not really match up to the way we usually think about the question if one Pokemon can hit another super effectively. For example, if I asked "Can Basculin hit Greninja super effectively?", we would expect the answer no, since Basculin only gets Ice, Water, Dark and Ground attacks (outside of Hidden Power), which hit none of Greninjas types super effectively. However, if Greninja uses Extrasensory, Basculins Dark moves would of course be able to hit it super effectively, provided it is not fainted first.

But all those realities of an actual battle (if or if not certain moves are used by the opponent, if the attacker is fainted before being able to hit the opponent, etc.) are usually not of interest to us. This is why I prefer a different reading:

2. Find a Pokemon using a set of up to three moves so that there existst a scenario in which it is able to hit an opposing Pokemon of any species, taking into account all available abilites, for super effective damage in a 1v1 situation. The opposing Pokemon is assumed not to take any actions.

The difference between 1 and this is that under this reading, you can't rely on the opponent to use any of their moves, so the Protean solution would no longer work.

This reading might sound implausbile, since it is not how Pokemon battles usually work, but it models the way you would usually think about the phrase "a Pokemon can hit another Pokemon super effectively", since usually you do not think about the possibility that an opposing Pokemon might take actions to make itself unable to be hit when thinking about this question. The Electrode example above serves to illustrate this: If we ask, "Can Marowak hit Electrode super effectively?", the answer we would expect is yes, since Marowak learns several Ground moves, which Electrode is weak to. We only want to look at what the type chart would tell us, without taking into account any actual specific battle. Now, if we ask, "Can an Octillery with Soak and Charge Beam hit an Electrode super effectively?", we would again want to answer yes, since after using Soak, Electrode would be vulnerable to Charge Beam. However, in a real battle Electrode would be able to attack Octillery two times before it could attack with a super effective Charge Beam. This would give it enough time to realiably faint Octillery, or faint itself. But this is not something we are interested in when we ask the question. We only want to know if there is any way for Octillery to get a super effective hit, providing nothing it gets to execute all the attacks it wants. This is why I believe that this reading is legitimate, and also believe this reading matches the puzzle to which we are currently unable to find an answer.

To give an actual point to this post (other than making really clear what question it is that we are stumped by):
Has anyone thought about certain aspects of the battle that might help a Pokemon achieve a super effective hit, but that it might not be able to bring about by itself? Weathers, Terrain moves, Wonder Room and the like? A Pokemon might not be able to set them up themselves, but might be able to make use of them. For example, I believe Nature Power under effect of a Terrain move turns into that moves type. This might give a Pokemon the Electric, Grass or Fairy coverage it needs to pull off an SE hit it might otherwise miss.
 
So there is a little quiz that's going viral in the Japanese Pokemon community, and I thought it would be cool to see if people here can figure it out. The solution has not been revealed yet, so I don't know the answer at the time of this post. The problem is as follows:

In XY 1v1, name a Pokemon that can hit EVERY Pokemon for super-effective damage with only 3 moves.
- No Smeargle
- No hacks or glitched sets (like DP mimic glitch)
- No Hidden Power
- Not inverse battle
- Not luck dependent (so Metronome is not an option)
- The location of battle is constant (so no variations in Nature Power)

Things to keep in mind:
- Stance Change, Multitype, and Wonder Guard cannot be skill swapped
- Storm Drain, Water Absorb, and Dry Skin nullify Soak. Multitype blocks even with Mold Breaker
- Trick-o-Treat and Forest's Curse add onto the existing types
- If a dual type Pokemon with Color Change gets hit by one of its own types, it will not become a pure type
- Magic Bounce is still totally a thing

Some close attmpts that I've seen so far have been:

Golduck @Rawst Berry: Worry Seed, Soak, Natural Gift (grass)
Stopped by Magic Bounce

Keckleon: Skill Swap, Feint Attack, Brick Break
Stopped by Sableye/Spiritomb, since Feint Attack will fail to make them pure dark types

The guy giving out this quiz is well known for giving a few of these types of questions in the past, and they all had proper answers (not one of those loopholes in the question sort of thing), so this has one as well. Have fun!
isnt that impossible cuz things like spiritomb have no weakness
 
Has anyone thought about certain aspects of the battle that might help a Pokemon achieve a super effective hit, but that it might not be able to bring about by itself? Weathers, Terrain moves, Wonder Room and the like? A Pokemon might not be able to set them up themselves, but might be able to make use of them. For example, I believe Nature Power under effect of a Terrain move turns into that moves type. This might give a Pokemon the Electric, Grass or Fairy coverage it needs to pull off an SE hit it might otherwise miss.
The problem with that is 1v1, so it would require the opponent to set them up.

isnt that impossible cuz things like spiritomb have no weakness
While Spiritomb and Sableye are problems to this puzzle, they can have weaknesses:
1) Soak can turn them into pure Water-types.
2) Giving them Protean or Color Change with certain moves can cause them to change to a monotype Pokémon.
3) Scrappy, Foresight, and Odor Sleuth will get rid of their Fighting immunities, making them weak to Fighting-type attacks.
4) They are naturally weak to Fairy.
 
The problem with that is 1v1, so it would require the opponent to set them up.
That depends on your reading of the puzzle. I agree that it would be a natural assumption, but the conditions might just be assumed to be in effect when the 1v1 begins. It is not specified that there can be no additional conditions present, only that the battle should be 1v1, and that we are not allowed to use different types for Nature Power (which is what originally led me to the idea that an unconventional secondary condition might be key to this puzzle, although the rule might also just be a precaution to prevent people from packing several attacking types into one of their move slots).
 
For the Color Change/Skill Swap trick to work, we need move #3 to be SE on the type of move #2, and we also need move #2 to have nothing immune to it that isn't hit SE by move #3. We also need to be able to hit everything immune to Skill Swap.

This appears to be impossible.
 
Wanted to point this out if it wasn't apparent to some:
"Multitype no longer prevents the effects of Knock Off, Trick, Switcheroo, Thief or Covet if the target is not holding a Plate." -Bulbapedia
Since the opposing Pokémon is assumed to not be holding an item (this includes the unTrickable Mega Stones), Item-altering moves are a real option for all the traditional problems in this scenario, including Multitype Arceus. (Magic Bounce users are still affected by Trick, too.)

The exceptions to this rule? Sticky Hold users - the following: Grimer, Muk, Gulpin, Swalot, Shellos, Gastrodon, Trubbish, Accelgor. However, ALL of these Pokémon have alternate abilities to Sticky Hold... So if our goal is to hit every Pokémon species super-effectively, perhaps we do not need to account for those who have an ability option.

Maybe an answer is found there somehow. Item altering moves a la Bestow, Trick, and Switcheroo now viable, perhaps there's a way to win like that. Still, I couldn't find a method that was less than 4 moves.

But, that "let's only hit one individual of each species" brings up another chain of thought. If we only have to consider hitting each species once, not necessarily every species' Ability possibility, what other important Pokémon should be under closer scrutiny by this? Sure, Aegislash will always have an un-Skill Swappable ability along with Arceus, but note that all Magic Bounce users are either Megas (necessitating a hold item which is not present) or are Espeon, Natu, and Xatu with other Abilities they can use. This way of viewing the problem may open up more possibilities, just wasn't sure if it was totally in tune with the question.

I also was confused for a while on how Soak worked, but apparently it changes even dual-type Water types into mono Water, which is incredibly helpful.

So, if I were to try to solve it under that logic, I'd go with Azumarill or Marill with Soak, Grass Knot, and Brick Break (or other Fighting move). Soak, by the above logic, is not halted by any Magic Bounce users, all Storm Drain and Water Absorb Pokémon (who would be immune to Soak) have other ability options, and all Sap Sipper Pokémon (who would be otherwise immune to GK) have other ability options. This means Soak+Grass move OR Electric move is capable of hitting every single Pokémon species super-effectively bar Arceus (whose only ability is Multitype, and cannot be Soaked), who is hit SE by the Fighting move. Azumarill/Marill chosen over other Soak users because Lanturn and Pelipper lines lack a Fighting move, Octillery's only non-HP Fighting move is Seismic Toss, and the rest simply lack a non-HP Grass or Electric move.

tldr; Azumarill and Marill with: Soak/Grass Knot/Brick Break

-given that all Pokémon that are capable of using Magic Bounce, Sap Sipper, Storm Drain, or Water Absorb use their other available abilities
-no other non-Smeargle Soak user has the combination of (no Hidden Powers) a damage dealing Grass/Electric attack + a non-Seismic Toss Fighting attack.


What do you guys think? Sorry that this is so convoluted...
 
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Wanted to point this out if it wasn't apparent to some:
"Multitype no longer prevents the effects of Knock Off, Trick, Switcheroo, Thief or Covet if the target is not holding a Plate." -Bulbapedia
Since the opposing Pokémon is assumed to not be holding an item (this includes the unTrickable Mega Stones), Item-altering moves are a real option for all the traditional problems in this scenario, including Multitype Arceus. (Magic Bounce users are still affected by Trick, too.)

The exceptions to this rule? Sticky Hold users - the following: Grimer, Muk, Gulpin, Swalot, Shellos, Gastrodon, Trubbish, Accelgor. However, ALL of these Pokémon have alternate abilities to Sticky Hold... So if our goal is to hit every Pokémon species super-effectively, perhaps we do not need to account for those who have an ability option.

Maybe an answer is found there somehow. Item altering moves a la Bestow, Trick, and Switcheroo now viable, perhaps there's a way to win like that. Still, I couldn't find a method that was less than 4 moves.

But, that "let's only hit one individual of each species" brings up another chain of thought. If we only have to consider hitting each species once, not necessarily every species' Ability possibility, what other important Pokémon should be under closer scrutiny by this? Sure, Aegislash will always have an un-Skill Swappable ability along with Arceus, but note that all Magic Bounce users are either Megas (necessitating a hold item which is not present) or are Espeon, Natu, and Xatu with other Abilities they can use. This way of viewing the problem may open up more possibilities, just wasn't sure if it was totally in tune with the question.

I also was confused for a while on how Soak worked, but apparently it changes even dual-type Water types into mono Water, which is incredibly helpful.

So, if I were to try to solve it under that logic, I'd go with Azumarill or Marill with Soak, Grass Knot, and Brick Break (or other Fighting move). Soak, by the above logic, is not halted by any Magic Bounce users, all Storm Drain and Water Absorb Pokémon (who would be immune to Soak) have other ability options, and all Sap Sipper Pokémon (who would be otherwise immune to GK) have other ability options. This means Soak+Grass move OR Electric move is capable of hitting every single Pokémon species super-effectively bar Arceus (whose only ability is Multitype, and cannot be Soaked), who is hit SE by the Fighting move. Azumarill/Marill chosen over other Soak users because Lanturn and Pelipper lines lack a Fighting move, Octillery's only non-HP Fighting move is Seismic Toss, and the rest simply lack a non-HP Grass or Electric move.

tldr; Azumarill and Marill with: Soak/Grass Knot/Brick Break

-given that all Pokémon that are capable of using Magic Bounce, Sap Sipper, Storm Drain, or Water Absorb use their other available abilities
-no other non-Smeargle Soak user has the combination of (no Hidden Powers) a damage dealing Grass/Electric attack + a non-Seismic Toss Fighting attack.


What do you guys think? Sorry that this is so convoluted...
You have to hit each Pokemon super effectively whilst considering all of its possible abilities, so unfortunately this is not a solution.
 

Arcticblast

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Wanted to point this out if it wasn't apparent to some:
"Multitype no longer prevents the effects of Knock Off, Trick, Switcheroo, Thief or Covet if the target is not holding a Plate." -Bulbapedia
Since the opposing Pokémon is assumed to not be holding an item (this includes the unTrickable Mega Stones), Item-altering moves are a real option for all the traditional problems in this scenario, including Multitype Arceus. (Magic Bounce users are still affected by Trick, too.)

The exceptions to this rule? Sticky Hold users - the following: Grimer, Muk, Gulpin, Swalot, Shellos, Gastrodon, Trubbish, Accelgor. However, ALL of these Pokémon have alternate abilities to Sticky Hold... So if our goal is to hit every Pokémon species super-effectively, perhaps we do not need to account for those who have an ability option.

Maybe an answer is found there somehow. Item altering moves a la Bestow, Trick, and Switcheroo now viable, perhaps there's a way to win like that. Still, I couldn't find a method that was less than 4 moves.

But, that "let's only hit one individual of each species" brings up another chain of thought. If we only have to consider hitting each species once, not necessarily every species' Ability possibility, what other important Pokémon should be under closer scrutiny by this? Sure, Aegislash will always have an un-Skill Swappable ability along with Arceus, but note that all Magic Bounce users are either Megas (necessitating a hold item which is not present) or are Espeon, Natu, and Xatu with other Abilities they can use. This way of viewing the problem may open up more possibilities, just wasn't sure if it was totally in tune with the question.

I also was confused for a while on how Soak worked, but apparently it changes even dual-type Water types into mono Water, which is incredibly helpful.

So, if I were to try to solve it under that logic, I'd go with Azumarill or Marill with Soak, Grass Knot, and Brick Break (or other Fighting move). Soak, by the above logic, is not halted by any Magic Bounce users, all Storm Drain and Water Absorb Pokémon (who would be immune to Soak) have other ability options, and all Sap Sipper Pokémon (who would be otherwise immune to GK) have other ability options. This means Soak+Grass move OR Electric move is capable of hitting every single Pokémon species super-effectively bar Arceus (whose only ability is Multitype, and cannot be Soaked), who is hit SE by the Fighting move. Azumarill/Marill chosen over other Soak users because Lanturn and Pelipper lines lack a Fighting move, Octillery's only non-HP Fighting move is Seismic Toss, and the rest simply lack a non-HP Grass or Electric move.

tldr; Azumarill and Marill with: Soak/Grass Knot/Brick Break

-given that all Pokémon that are capable of using Magic Bounce, Sap Sipper, Storm Drain, or Water Absorb use their other available abilities
-no other non-Smeargle Soak user has the combination of (no Hidden Powers) a damage dealing Grass/Electric attack + a non-Seismic Toss Fighting attack.


What do you guys think? Sorry that this is so convoluted...
You miss Sap Sipper Azumarill.
 
You miss Sap Sipper Azumarill.
That post was assuming the logic that the opposing pokemon is allowed to have alternate abilities that are available.

-Azumarill is allowed to have Huge power
-Zebstrika could have lightning rod
-Bouffalant could have Reckless (though it's hit by brick break anyways)

This puzzle depends on how cooperative the opposing pokemon can be.
 

Arcticblast

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That post was assuming the logic that the opposing pokemon is allowed to have alternate abilities that are available.

-Azumarill is allowed to have Huge power
-Zebstrika could have lightning rod
-Bouffalant could have Reckless (though it's hit by brick break anyways)

This puzzle depends on how cooperative the opposing pokemon can be.
In that case it appears you miss Volcanion either way.
 
In that case it appears you miss Volcanion either way.
Volcanion's not released. The question assumes Pokémon that actually exist legitimately at this time.
Still, I doubt the answer I gave too. It would be too easy it seems... and the way the guy emphasized Dry Skin, etc. probably means his intention was that you need to hit each Pokémon's possible Ability too. Can't say for sure, I don't speak Japanese. :B

This question is burning me up though... I can't wait until they reveal the answer!

I suppose it would also help a bit if Pokémon Showdown was up so we could !dexsearch thoughts.
 
-no other non-Smeargle Soak user has the combination of (no Hidden Powers) a damage dealing Grass/Electric attack + a non-Seismic Toss Fighting attack.

You forgot about Natural Gift (grass), TM83 in Gen. IV
So we have 8 other options :
- Psyduck/Golduck: Brick Break/other + Natural Gift (grass) + Soak
- Basculin: Revenge/Superpower + Natural Gift (grass) + Soak
- Alomomola: Wake-Up Slap + Natural Gift (grass) + Soak
- Buizel/Floatzel: Brick Break/other + Natural Gift (grass) + Soak
- Wailmer/Wailord: Rock Smash + Natural Gift (grass) + Soak

Pretty sure no other pkmn have Soak + damage dealing Fighting attack.
Here is the problem:
-given that all Pokémon that are capable of using Magic Bounce, Sap Sipper, Storm Drain, or Water Absorb use their other available abilities

What about Kecleon: Skill Swap, AncientPower, Brick Break ?
 

You forgot about Natural Gift (grass), TM83 in Gen. IV
So we have 8 other options :
- Psyduck/Golduck: Brick Break/other + Natural Gift (grass) + Soak
- Basculin: Revenge/Superpower + Natural Gift (grass) + Soak
- Alomomola: Wake-Up Slap + Natural Gift (grass) + Soak
- Buizel/Floatzel: Brick Break/other + Natural Gift (grass) + Soak
- Wailmer/Wailord: Rock Smash + Natural Gift (grass) + Soak

Pretty sure no other pkmn have Soak + damage dealing Fighting attack.
Here is the problem:



What about Kecleon: Skill Swap, AncientPower, Brick Break ?
It can't get past Aegislash.
 
Kecleon w/Color Change
Skill Swap
Shadow Ball
Brick Break

Obvious Skill swap to get the opponent with the Color Change ability. Shadow Ball hits all Pokemon except for Normal types, changes type to Ghost, then can hit them again for SE.
If the opponent is normal, Brick Break for SE. For pokemon that resist fighting (ex:normal/fairy jigglypuff), hit them with Brick Break anyways to change their type to Fighting, then hit them with Shadow Ball twice.
Problem Pokemon:
Arceus can be hit with Brick Break
Aegislash and Shedinja are hit with Shadow Ball
Magic Bouncers are Espeon and Xatu, who are both hit for SE damage by Shadow Ball
Anybody I'm missing?
 

Codraroll

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Kecleon w/Color Change
Skill Swap
Shadow Ball
Brick Break
(...)
Anybody I'm missing?
Only, I'm afraid, that Color Change won't activate if the Pokémon is dual-typed, including the type of the move used. As such, Color Change won't affect Sableye or Spiritomb, and neither Shadow Ball nor Brick Break will hit them super-effectively. Others have proposed the same strategy earlier in this thread. It's a good guess, but it isn't the correct solution.

Then what is?
Assuming that only every species has to be hit, and that you don't have to account for all possible abilities (that means, no Magic Bounce), a set of Soak/Fighting move/Grass move solves the problem. Assuming this and a cooperative opponent, a Protean Kecleon with Skill Swap, Brick Break and Fire Punch also solves it.

This long post by Neil Arthur Hotep discusses all possibilities for any "convenional" interpretation of the question, as far as I can tell, and shows that the problem is unsolvable.

This much shorter post by LightningLord2 practically solves the problem in an unconventional way, but it's controversial whether or not it complies to the intention of the question.

So all in all, I think we've either solved it long ago, or exhausted all possibilities. Yet people keep posting guesses, often without reading the thread. As such, I think I'll lock this thread. It's been a fun question, though, and well worth a thread until it started going in circles.
 
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