It's because Pokemon's level curve is probably based around the fact that you never run from wilds, try to fight every trainer possible when you run into them (i.e. no grinding the VS Seeker/Gabby & Ty) and that your endgame team is 5-6 Pokemon. Doing this usually puts you close to the bottom rung of the Elite 4 level wise, where you could either grind for a few more levels, or allow the fact you have a huge surplus of money/EVs take over.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
ORAS General Discussion - Mark 2 - Spoilers Inside
- Thread starter Stellar
- Start date
- Status
That's fair, yeah. I didn't realize we were talking about the lack of change from the level curve in RSE. Honestly, I really liked the level curve in Hoenn because it seemed to present a challenge to me. Even when I'm playing back through Sapphire, getting through the Elite Four is hard, and I welcome that! Thanks for clarifying. :)
That's a good point. I'm definitely hoping there are some more aftergame areas, but I'm alright with what the demo seems to be presenting to us. I'm a little bit worried about Sky Pillar, but the way they're leveling up Gabby and Ty as well as the rematch trainers is alleviating most of my worry about late-game grinding.
That or you verse the E4 underleveled but depend on type advantage (and plenty of potions & revives) to get you through:
Sidney: Pretty much any of the standard Dark-type weaknesses will get you through: Bug, Fairy, Fighting. Most notable is Bug which two if Sidney's Pokemon are quadruple weak to, but I would go for a Fighting and Fairy-type.
Phoebe: For the most part the typical Ghost weaknesses will gt you through: Dark, Ghost. only one who isn't is Sableye who's weak to only Fairy-types (which you already have).
Glacia: Here's the reason why I mentioned wanting the Fighting-type for Sidney. Use it to take out Glalie and Walrein. The Ghost/Dark used for Phoebe can also be used for Froslass.
Drake: That Fairy used against Sidney and Phoebe will be useful here.
Steven: Fighting deals with his Cradily, Armaldo, and Aggron. Claydol and his Metagross is weak to the Dark/Ghost. Skarmory is an outliner so you'll need another type for it, it's weak to Fire and Electric. I'd pick Fire as his Metagross is also weak to it as well as some of the Elite Four's Pokemon.
So by my analysis you'll need a Pokemon that knows a Fighting, Fairy, Ghost/Dark, and Fire move. If you're going to use your starter then Blaziken is ready to go, Swampert can learn Hammer Arm from Move Tutor (and we just got a set of 10 Heart Scales from the demo) or Brick Break/Power-Up Punch from TM, and Sceptile can learn Night Slash from Move Tutor or you can keep Pursuit it learns as a Grovyle.
Speaking of the Elite Four, I really hope for some improvement in that area. To be honest, Gen. III had probably the worst-designed Pokémon League challenge of them all (maybe second to Gen. II, though).
Once you arrive there, anything with a weakness to Water (or a not-very-effictive-ness against Water) is severely underlevelled. Upon passing through Victory Road, you can challenge the Elite Four, and find out that they probably outlevel you by some margin, or that they're a little too tough to take on right then.
"That's okay! I'll go train somewhere!" you think. That's when you realise that not only do the Elite Four outlevel you, they badly outlevel everything else in Hoenn too. Where do you go to train for the Elite Four challenge? Any Trainer's Eyes rematches have their Pokémon at level 40, tops (besides, those rematches are annoying to initiate). Gabby and Ty have their two Pokémon at level 39. In the very depths of Victory Road you might find some wild 'mons at level 44, but they have a low Exp. yield.
Basically, you're stuck grinding against weakling 'mons and -trainers unless you feel like throwing yourself against the Elite Four time and time again to slowly level up. Hoenn's Elite Four are made challenging only by the fact that they're infuriatingly tedious to prepare for, and that's terrible game design.
At least it's nothing against the chore of levelling anything beyond level 80, though. Once you beat the Elite Four in R/S, you find out that nowhere in the game are there any better places to train, and the Elite Four levels remain capped out at 58 or below (way below, in Sidney's case).
I like to scold D/P for their numerous shortcomings, but at least they had the Vs. Seeker.
Once you arrive there, anything with a weakness to Water (or a not-very-effictive-ness against Water) is severely underlevelled. Upon passing through Victory Road, you can challenge the Elite Four, and find out that they probably outlevel you by some margin, or that they're a little too tough to take on right then.
"That's okay! I'll go train somewhere!" you think. That's when you realise that not only do the Elite Four outlevel you, they badly outlevel everything else in Hoenn too. Where do you go to train for the Elite Four challenge? Any Trainer's Eyes rematches have their Pokémon at level 40, tops (besides, those rematches are annoying to initiate). Gabby and Ty have their two Pokémon at level 39. In the very depths of Victory Road you might find some wild 'mons at level 44, but they have a low Exp. yield.
Basically, you're stuck grinding against weakling 'mons and -trainers unless you feel like throwing yourself against the Elite Four time and time again to slowly level up. Hoenn's Elite Four are made challenging only by the fact that they're infuriatingly tedious to prepare for, and that's terrible game design.
At least it's nothing against the chore of levelling anything beyond level 80, though. Once you beat the Elite Four in R/S, you find out that nowhere in the game are there any better places to train, and the Elite Four levels remain capped out at 58 or below (way below, in Sidney's case).
I like to scold D/P for their numerous shortcomings, but at least they had the Vs. Seeker.
It's already been stated that Gabby & Tye appear to get to level 50 (and get Magnezone) in this version, so that's some damn good grinding pre-E4. In addition, depending on how redesigned Mauville is we could be getting restaurants, and post-E4 grinding won't be too hard due to E4 rematches. Also, as stated before, O-powers, Lucky Egg and Exp. Share exist now.
I hope they have a restaurant just like Le Yeah, best place to grind for levels and money.
Mm; personally Le Wow is my Number 1 want from ORAS right now. Yeah, not even a Mega Flygon, I just want a damn good grinding place (E4 rematches don't count)
Well I think if they bring back one of the restaurants they'll bring back them all. A food court would be pretty boring if there was only one kind of food vendor.
While it was relatively annoying, I actually found the length perfect because it allowed time to get my O-powers back up when I hadn't walked like a bajillion steps that day
Anyway... getting off topic here
Anyone else bemused by the fact that there's going to be a ORAS Dual Pack sold with a serial code that gives 100 potions?
You're right, that is kind of weird. I guess they wanted to do something that would let you get an easy start to the game without really impacting the mid- to late-game. That kind of makes sense, I guess... although to be honest, I would have expected Poké Balls or something.
Also, how do you think the Diancienite will be obtainable? Will it be an event for ORAS like Diancie itself, or something unlockable in-game ala the Gracidea, Reveal Glass, or DNA Splicers? I personally think that it'll be something in-game you can get any time as long as you have an event Diancie.
Last edited:
What? Oh, wow, didn't notice that. I think it's a tad excessive. I honestly don't remember using many potions when I play, at least early game. Maybe against a Gym Leader, but generally if my Pokemon are at a point when their low in HP/PP and not near a convenient healing area it's late in the game when I would need to use the stronger potions.
As nitrox116 said, Pokeballs would probably have been better (but then again the demo is giving out two sets of Pokeballs, normal and Heal Balls (which is thinking about it kind of a weird choice, honestly I would have expected a Potion package from that)).
I'm going to agree that it'll be something in-game. Actually in the movie Diancie created its Mega Stone so maybe there will be a place to take Diancie where it'll be empowered and create its Mega Stone?
Probably just talk to someone tangently related to it with diancie in your party. Either a random npc, steven (he loves stones), professor cosmo, etc
Defog hasn't been found available in any way, shape or form.
So any good defoggers, like latias, will have to be transferred from DPPt. That's annoying since I have no way of doing that apart from ask someone else to do it... And there dies my dream of sweeping teams with Volcarona XD.
Where is the list of TMs in the demo dump? I couldn't find the specific names...
Where is the list of TMs in the demo dump? I couldn't find the specific names...
There's still a decent amount of Defoggers you can get through level/breeding. Crobat, Scizor, Mega Pidgeot and Mandibuzz. But yeah, it would be REALLY nice to have Defog return as a tutor...
Anyway, the full TM list ain't anything spectacular. Rock Smash and Dive are now HMs, and replacing Rock Smash's former TM spot is Secret Power.
People discussing about grinding for XP, have you forgotten the Super Secret Bases? If the battles there give experience like in the originals, we will have an unlimited amount of XP available. It will be sweet if we can do triple battles there, imagine bringing your baby pokemon plus Mega Glalie and Normal Gem Snorlax and defeating a team of lvl 100 Blisseys, insta-level 50 in two turns.
This is a great point. It doesn't take much to update a secret base team, and you can most likely trade from XY after beating Roxanne. If they were made so that we can nab exp off of each other, you can just ask someone to post a lv55 team to get your Pokemon to an applicable level for taking on the E4.
True... Shame the team I want to make can't use Mega Pigeot (Mega slot taken by Steelix), but mandibuzz or crobat should work. I think I'll try Mandibuzz in showdown and see how it goes.
Unless trading is completely disallowed until beating Roxanne, I doubt we won't be able to trade with XY for any amount of time - they're really pushing connectivity this gen and we were allowed to trade with DPPt at the same time we were allowed to trade with other HGSS carts in HGSS.
Trading will likely become available immediately after completing the initial quest of getting to Rival 1 and coming back to the Lab. I'd be surprised if it was any later than that. That's the point you get Pokeballs after all. You're not allowed to trade with 1 Pokemon in your party.
That would make it the same as XY (heading back home then getting Pokeballs and you can trade). Makes sense to me.
This probably applies to our accessibility to Pokemon Bank as well, because that's also when we get the Pokedex. In RSE, this is also the point that we were allowed to access Pokemon Box. If I remember correctly, we weren't allowed to import pokemon from foreign games until we had one hundred pokemon captured in the pokedex, although we probably won't have the same restriction.
- Status