Wish+Protect can be setup fodder, but I would still count it as reliable recovery. Also, yeah I forgot about the fighting neutrality, but my point remains. I also did mention that it can't hit back and, yes, Venusaur gets Leech Seed, but Audino gets Heal Bell, TWave, and Knock Off. At this point I'm repeating myself, I wasn't saying it's better than Mega Venusaur at all; I just think people are severely underrating it.
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Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
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I wasn't necessarily going against Mega Audino myself; I just feel the comparison was innaccurate considering Venusaur can still hit back pretty damn hard and overall is probably the better poke.
I'm not sure Audino will be that viable tho; if it is I doubt it'll reach above C.
It's exploitable because it involves two turns.
Nope, because then MegaMane outspeeds it.
Exploitable isn't the same as unreliable- it's certainly not ideal in some circumstances as it can drain pretty heavily on momentum and be overly predictable, but it's perfectly "reliable", unlike say RestTalk which can leave you useless for several turns due to randomness, or something like Drain punch which depends on the opposing mons.
"+2 Gallade Close Combat 2HKOs, or even OHKOs sometimes with SR." - So yes, literally exactly what I said. It can very well OHKO with rocks sometimes. I didn't post the Adamant Gallade calcs, you did lol. If your counter is taking 70% ON A GOOD DAY you need a better counter. What does it do back? Is your response to every argument "Enjoy your Twave!!!"? So are you running Wish / Protect / Dazzling Gleam / Twave? Why would you even use a Mega slot on this over Slowbro. No good stall is going to use Mega Audino. It merges Chansey and Clefable but removes the best parts of both while still taking up your Mega slot.
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Uh yes it is.
Take this for example:
You switch into mega gallade as it sets up an SD, and you're (mega audino lets say) defensive.
So you dazzling gleam, that does jack crap, as he uses zen headbutt and puts you down to 52%~, there's a small chance for you to get 2hko'd.
So you obviously have to heal up. Now if you had softboiled, you could sit there stalling softboiled until zen headbutt misses.
However, you have wish protect.
Remember, mega audino's dazzling gleam isn't a 2hko on mega gallade, and mega gallade's +2 zen headbutt (for the most part) isn't 2hko'ing mega audino through max investment.
The thing is, when you wish, you take a hit; you don't heal immediately. Seeing as mega gallade can live one more dazzling gleam, it COULD predict your protect and get up another SD, which would seal your death.
Sure, you COULD predict him and dazzling gleam after your wish expecting him to SD again if he was in range for it, but he could also just zen headbutt again.
Your protect is exploitable and thus is unreliable; they are pretty much the same.
So basically, when you're being heavily pressured by an opponent that can set up, having wish/protect as recovery forces you into a 50/50 every turn, which is usually in your disadvantage, whereas softboiled or roost lets u stall a lot better. I understand that the scenario is a bit in mega gallade's favor here but i hope I got the general point across :S
No yeah I get that, I just don't think "unreliable" is a word that applies. It's not as good at outstalling things and is easier to be exploited (That said, what's stopping mega gallade predicting a softboiled and swords dancing so it gets a clean 2hko?), but I'm not sure that fits with the term unreliable, which implies its going to fail under certain circumstances or be randomised in some way. It's just semantics really, all I was trying to get across is that Mega Audino is pretty self-sustainable, when people say things dont have reliable recovery they usually imply it needs wish support from other mons.
why the hell are people defending Mega Audino?
Yes its not bad, no Mega is bad, even Abomasnow, and if MAudino wasn't a mega we would be singing its praises because it would have a lot going for it.
But it is a Mega.
why the hell would you use it over Venusaur, Altaria or Slowbro on a stall team? it does NOTHING new. its recovery is also not reliable, Wish-Protect is not Reliable and takes up two move slots. that realistically leaves you one slot for Heal Bell or another support move or your taunt bait. so for the above comments of "Enjoy your TWave!" Audino doesn't have room for TWave to be halfway viable. look at the other Stall Megas. Venusaur can recover easier with Leech Seed and Synthisis, if you wanna run those, and Sting with hard hits. Slowbro has very reliable recovery in Slack Off, The option of Rest Talk, etc. and has the CM set to hit hard, and of course can just stall out. Altaria has amazing typing and bulk, a similar movepool with the key addition of roost and its own version of Fairy Voice.
so not only does Audino face competition from things like the blobs, it faces competition from these as Megas. why would you run Audino on a Stall team when these are available?
on an unrelated note, personally i wanna use mega Lop. a hard hitter with Utility sounds very promising to me, putting the roles of a competent cleaner and cleric into one slot, which is great for HO. you can scare out pokes with the threat of your Duel Stab and Heal Bell on the Switch, getting rid of pesky status. another option is Sub Passing. i wanna use it badly.
Yes its not bad, no Mega is bad, even Abomasnow, and if MAudino wasn't a mega we would be singing its praises because it would have a lot going for it.
But it is a Mega.
why the hell would you use it over Venusaur, Altaria or Slowbro on a stall team? it does NOTHING new. its recovery is also not reliable, Wish-Protect is not Reliable and takes up two move slots. that realistically leaves you one slot for Heal Bell or another support move or your taunt bait. so for the above comments of "Enjoy your TWave!" Audino doesn't have room for TWave to be halfway viable. look at the other Stall Megas. Venusaur can recover easier with Leech Seed and Synthisis, if you wanna run those, and Sting with hard hits. Slowbro has very reliable recovery in Slack Off, The option of Rest Talk, etc. and has the CM set to hit hard, and of course can just stall out. Altaria has amazing typing and bulk, a similar movepool with the key addition of roost and its own version of Fairy Voice.
so not only does Audino face competition from things like the blobs, it faces competition from these as Megas. why would you run Audino on a Stall team when these are available?
on an unrelated note, personally i wanna use mega Lop. a hard hitter with Utility sounds very promising to me, putting the roles of a competent cleaner and cleric into one slot, which is great for HO. you can scare out pokes with the threat of your Duel Stab and Heal Bell on the Switch, getting rid of pesky status. another option is Sub Passing. i wanna use it badly.
Why are the some of the analyses in the google doc "complete"? Seems like things are still developing atm, and set theorymoning really isn't close to done. The ORAS OU ladder just went up earlier today.
Also, I would at least mention the EV spread Rosen suggested, SDef Heatran is a much more relevant threat than Mega Manectric imo. I thought Rosen suggested dropping the speed. Nonetheless, the point still stands that Heatran is a much more important threat to Sceptile than Mega Manectric.
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er... no it doesn't...
136 atk / 192 satk / 180 naive is not outsped by mega manectric... 80 atk evs is not enough to ohko sdef heatran
Shit, Mega Sharpedo can slaughter many fully healthy bulky Pokemon too. Let's say you grab a Speed Boost at full HP and stuff like Keldeo/Breloom/priority is taken out of the way. Assuming you're running Max Attack, and Max Speed, you're gonna outspeed quite a few Scarfers (Scarf Lando included)....but your power is pretty ridiculous.
Let's say they switch in Lando-T (252/252+ Impish w/Lefties) and get the Intimidate off on you. Assuming you predict that and go for the Ice Fang on the switch, even with the -1 Attack, Ice Fang is 100% a 2HKO even without rocks. That's pretty sweet.
Certainly Mega Sharpedo has a lot of flaws, but the raw power it has is formidable too. Late game with priority and counters like Keldeo and Azumarill (the latter if you opt for Ice Fang over Poison Jab, otherwise Azumarill can't switch in) gone, Sharpedo can nab +1 speed and just sweep pretty easy. If you have rocks up, even stuff like Max Physical Bulk Hippowdon is always 2HKO'd.
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I've seen some people saying that Pidgeot's niche in OU will be having the "fastest Defog in the tier". Mega Aero gets Defog, has better typing, is faster, has better bulk, similar (if not better) coverage, and can actually beat Heatran. It also has a ton more support options that makes it much more valuable to a team than Mega Pidgeot appears to be.
Small nitpick, but Chansey doesnt use leftovers either. Anyway, I think you are forgetting Mega Audinos biggest pro over chansey, it is a normal/fairy type. While the sheer stats might not be as great, never underestimate the typing. Yeah, chansey is probably better in general taking into account that audino is a mega, however, i wouldn't say its completely outclassed.
C'mon, it's not that bad. Sure it's severely outclassed in OU but I'm sure it could find a great home on lower tier stall teams. You can't deny that it has impressive bulk and normal/fairy is a somewhat cool typing. It could be a discount Chansey if it's allowed in RU, or it could even outclass blissey as a cleric in UU with better mixed bulk if you don't mind using up the mega slot. Sure blissey takes special hits way better, but don't underestimate the typing differences.
Well, we are in the OU subforum so saying it's a worthless Mega is not unreasonable.
But sure, Mega Audino, unless it surprises us by going into BL at least, is going to work well in the lower tiers as it has little competition in terms of defensive Megas (None at all considering its main traits).
yeah but this is an OU thread, the fact that it does well in lower tiers is irrelevant. its like how Slowbro sucks in Ubers because of the heavy special bias it has, but will rule this tier because we are super physical. heck Slowbro is looking really good for a post Salamence meta,if it goes
(I know we aren't meant to discuss bans and drops, so i won't but its so obviously broken. its like Mega Gar all over again, with how busted it is, just somehow a little more tame.)
AIGHT NIGGAS FUCK YO NEW MEGAS IT'S AZUMARILL TIME
AZUMARILL 2.0 - ORAS EDITION
Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 240 HP / 184 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Knock Off/Superpower
- Waterfall
azu once again seems to be an extremely important mon this meta, but the standard shit just won't cut it (as i've discovered in testing). the standard cb set right now is faster than necessary and sacrifices a lot of bulk. this spread is tailored towards new shit poppin up. it does these things:
1. OHKOs max def Mega Sableye
2. Survives 3 Specs Keldeo scalds + takes his from errything a lil better
3. Outspeeds and 2HKOs Clefable
there was some other calc for somethin specific but i forget what, anyway new azu huzzah
also i guess you could adjust to outspeed min speed tar or something but scarftar and mega tar are way more common so it's just wasted evs imo
AZUMARILL 2.0 - ORAS EDITION
Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 240 HP / 184 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Knock Off/Superpower
- Waterfall
azu once again seems to be an extremely important mon this meta, but the standard shit just won't cut it (as i've discovered in testing). the standard cb set right now is faster than necessary and sacrifices a lot of bulk. this spread is tailored towards new shit poppin up. it does these things:
1. OHKOs max def Mega Sableye
2. Survives 3 Specs Keldeo scalds + takes his from errything a lil better
3. Outspeeds and 2HKOs Clefable
there was some other calc for somethin specific but i forget what, anyway new azu huzzah
also i guess you could adjust to outspeed min speed tar or something but scarftar and mega tar are way more common so it's just wasted evs imo
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One thing Mega Pidgeot has is U-turn, but I would agree that Aerodactyl is the better defogger. If Pidgeot runs U-turn + Defog, it must either give up Heat Wave or Roost, the former provides necessary coverage and OHKOs Bisharp on the switch, while Roost helps Pidgeot not get worn down by Stealth Rock and attacks/statuses. Aero, on the other hand, can just run Roost + EdgeQuake, outclassing Roost + Heat Wave + Hurricane on Pidgeot.
Mega Aero may technically be the fastest Defogger, but it has no business Defogging in OU. Ever. You're either giving up Hone Claws, Roost, Taunt, or valuable coverage.
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So, I've been using mLop a lot lately. Like, a lot. And it is outright amazing! Her power+speed+ability to healing wish is just stupidly awesome for HO teams. No Bullshit. It kills absolutely 0 momentum, hits like a truck, can clean, and make a team mate 100% healthy again. All in one fucking Pokemon. I remember theorymonning about her prior to the stat release and thinking she'd be decent at best. But, she far surpassed my expectations. After mMaw left I wasn't sure what mega my heart would be set on. I do now.
TLDR; If you haven't used mLop yet, drop your broken ass mMence and mPerts and use mLop.
TLDR; If you haven't used mLop yet, drop your broken ass mMence and mPerts and use mLop.
I'm excited for Mega Lopunny almost exclusively because of the concept of making double bunny offense become triple bunny.
Mega Lopunny does not have jawdropping stats but it's still jawdropping IMO. Having even a single 'free slot' (As in you get all it needs to do its basic functions in less than four slots) is great, as it provides unpredictability (Key points in the banning of Aegislash and Mega Mawile back then), but Mega Lopunny has TWO thanks to its Scrappy STABs, with a bunch of interesting support options, a Power-Up Punch that cannot be stopped and a great Speed tier.
Its weak points are that it does not hit as hard as other Megas and that it has mediocre bulk. Still feels like Lugia compared to Mega Beedrill, though.
Its weak points are that it does not hit as hard as other Megas and that it has mediocre bulk. Still feels like Lugia compared to Mega Beedrill, though.
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