By these damge calcs and those that I've done i have come to the conclusion that mega camerupt has an advantage over mega zard x and garchomp as it fails to OHKO camerupt meaning garchomp can only work as a check over camerupt. Aside from that though, mega zard Y can take on all these pokemon with relative ease, even some of the that mega camerupt can switch in on aside from raikou and manectric mega zard Y can. Aside from a stealth rock weakness, which is easier to handle now with all the defoggers available, I don't see any reason to use mega camerupt over zard Y.
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Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
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Idk why you are comparing Zard Y with Camel. Their roles as a fire type wall breaker is DRASTICALLY different. Camel is good in his role at being slightly bulky and also having the niche in absorbing electric type attacks. Zard Y on the other hand aims to wear down walls with his powerful fire type boosted moves and his lack of water weakness. Don't judge just by damage. You have to consider team synergy as well. Ground typing is a valuable typing. You are looking at the Camel at face value. Try it out. If using him outside of TR doesn't fancy you then use him with TR Lunar Dance Cress or HW TR Mes. Give the poor camel a break.
Those calcs are actually weaker than mega Camerupt actually hits. Did a test calc on my phone and Keldeo gets hit for up to 90% with earth power. Can't copy and paste for the life of me but as I say I'll update later because Camerupt is an even greater nuke than those calcs display.
Slightly related question here. Since all the ORAS mega have their own threads to discuss on, might it be appropriate to rename and redub this thread as more of an ORAS general metagame discussion thread?
EDIT: Going ahead and tagging Aragorn the King and alexwolf in this so it isn't completely lost and buried undernuclear bomb Camerupt discussion.
EDIT: Going ahead and tagging Aragorn the King and alexwolf in this so it isn't completely lost and buried under
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Mega zard Y is faster than mega camerupt and can take water type attacks from keldeo, something that mega camerupt can't do. Overall, there is much more utility to mega zard Y which makes it a better choice most of the time. But if your team struggles against zard x, garchomp, etc., or you have a trick room team in mind then mega camerupt is definitely worth considering.
Missing the Sheer Force boost.
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 522-614 (175.7 - 206.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 301-355 (105.2 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 247-292 (76.4 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Earth Power vs. 228 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 274-324 (68.8 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 261-307 (73.1 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 373-439 (116.9 - 137.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 334-394 (87.4 - 103.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 181-214 (54.6 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 273-322 (69.2 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Diggersby: 345-406 (110.5 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 228-268 (56.4 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Camerupt literally kills all momentum fast Volt Switchers build up. Normally, even if they can't do much damage, the Volt Switcher:
A) accumulates chip damage. 10% here and 15% there adds up quickly.
B) the point at which outright switching occurs before Volt Switch occurs every time. So if Chansey comes in on Raikou's Volt Switch, Raikou has the ability to switch to whatever Chansey killer you want, giving you momentum. That's VoltTurn 101.
Mega Camerupt doesn't deal with either of those issues, but the second one is more important. It checks the Volt Switchers without allowing them to gain any momentum what so ever. That's something nothing else in OU can claim. I've already had to adapt my VoltTurn heavy team to include a Camerupt counter because it's just such a pain for the playstyle. It forces the VoltTurn player out of their easier predictions and forces said player to overpredict or double switch, which is far riskier than just Volt Switching out of there.
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Quick question, why is it just Mega Camerupt that's able to achieve this well and not other ground types like Garchomp and Mamoswine?
Keldeo still 2HKOs Zard-Y even in the sun. Sure, it takes water attacks better than Camerupt does but switching into Keldeo is still the last thing Zard-Y wants to do especially if rocks are up.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 236-278 (79.4 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 170-204 (57.2 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 158-188 (53.1 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Most if not all Volt Switchers carry Hidden Power Ice, which makes Garchomp invalid as a stop to them. Mamoswine and Rhyperior are already in a better position, but they can't deal with Flash Cannon from Magnezone, which Camel eats like it was nothing. It's not like Camel is the only Pokémon able to stop Volt Switch effectively, in fact Pokémon such as Lanturn and Gastrodon can do just as well, if not better since they can also stop Hydro Pump from Rotom. However, they don't come nearly as close to Camerupt's power level, making Camerupt the most solid Volt Switch blocker overall.
252 SpA Raikou Shadow Ball or Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Camerupt: 77-91 (22.3 - 26.4%) -- 16.8% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Camerupt: 70-82 (20.3 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Thick Fat Mamoswine: 170-202 (47.3 - 56.2%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Raikou Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mamoswine: 135-159 (37.6 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Mamo actually checks Raikou decently, but Mamo needs Thick Fat to stand a chance at surviving against Manectric.
252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Garchomp: 344-408 (96.3 - 114.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Garchomp: 308-364 (86.2 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Exca loses to Flamethrower/Overheat, most of the others lose to HP Ice. Mega Swampert actually performs this role similarly as well. Forgot about that one. Camerupt is basically bulky enough to take any possible coverage move fro Mane and Raikou several times over the course of a match.
Also, what Talpr0ne said. I may have exaggerated a little bit by saying it's the only one, but Camerupt can punish switches better than anything else that performs the same role.
Because Garchomp has to watch out for HP Ice, Specs Magnezone's Flash Cannon OHKOs Mamoswine and Flamethower/Overheat from Mega Manectric can both 2HKO it even with Thick Fat, and Rotom-W can cripple both of them with Will-O-Wisp. Camerupt doesn't fear any of those things (except Rotom-W's Hydro Pump of course) and hits harder than both of them even if they're holding Life Orbs.
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Would running Thunderbolt in the third slot for Slowbro and Skarmory be a good idea or is Ice Beam / HP Fire / Surf better?I mean, it's more of the fact of what actually needs to be said? I know Albacore was preaching about how op it was earlier and I wasn't really buying it cause I saw a bunch of people using it terribly at first and I guess a bit of my own ignorance as well. Then I saw some better replays and I started using it and I have to say it's pretty damn good. The standard set of 3 attacks + SD is the go to now and that's generally all you need. I think as the meta changes little by little it'll start running some more support moves such as the ones you mentioned and that's when it'll flourish into a more complete threat. M-Gallade I wouldn't say is necessarily underrated but it's definitely something I've seen a lot of teams not actually prepare for and it's kind of insane to watch this thing sweep these unprepared teams. So yeah, M-Gallade is good and people need to stop making these M-Gallade weak teams. That's all.
Edit: To not double post. So I've been using M-Latios a bit after reading some discussion here and in the OU chat room, mostly from people bashing it lol. It's sort of weird cause there's certain aspects that M-Latios is blatantly outclassed in while in other aspects it's not.
Latios (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 132 SpA / 108 Spe
Naive Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake / Dragon Claw
- Ice Beam / HP Fire
- Dragon Dance
So Earthquake is to hit Heatran, Char-X, TTar, M-Camerupt, Raikou, the usual stuff. Zen and Dragon Claw is STAB that basically brings down whatever is weak to it. I don't use Dragon Claw simply for the fact I rather not get walled by Heatran using M-Latios but it's more consistent in handling Zard-X. EVs are correlated in speed to outpace Lando-T after a boost and KO with Ice Beam since once you reveal dragon dance M-Latios they love switching into you with the illusion that they're safe. The investment in special attack is to 2HKO things like Hippowdown and Rhyperior. HP Fire is interchangeable as it breaks Ferro, Skarmory, and M-Scizor really easily and Dragon Dance there's no need for an explanation. The EVS of Special Attack can be put into HP for a bit more bulk for preference sake but you potentially miss some 2HKOs on things like Hippowdon. More speed can be used to outpace scarf Garchomp with that spread if needed to handle that as well. Lots of interchangeable stuff and the usual partners with Latios are good for Mega as well so just know that.
You really don't seem to be getting the point everyone is trying to get across to you. Aside from sharing a fire typing, Zard-Y and Camerupt are NOT similar. Camerupt's viability does not begin and end in Trick Room. It avoids 50% damage from rocks upon the switch unlike Zard-Y, can use it's higher base attack for moves other than Earthquake, and is pretty much inarguably more versatile than Zard-Y, as it gets almost perfect coverage in three moves and can then run SR, Toxic, Wisp, even Yawn. I also get the impression you're just theorymoning and haven't even touched Camerupt. Try it with VoltTurn support and see how deadly it is. Timely switching and teambuilding is an integral part of Pokemon so you should seldom be put in a situation where your Rupt would be in dire straits against a water-type. And FYI, Zard-Y can't stay in on most water types either.
Thunderbolt is fine as well as it hits those you mentioned plus Gyarados otherwise it can evolve into M-Gyarados for free or threaten you with Twave if it's Specially Defensive. 2 moves are set in stone with Zen Headbutt, Dragon Dance while after that it's really interchangeable with just being a Dragon Dance sweeper. I'm pretty positive there are other good sets that haven't been used so as long as you cover everything then it's whatever works for you Jaguar360
blinkie
¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯ dank meme crew
Not to mention that Camerupt gets Stealth Rock, which it easily can set up thanks to its bulk and forcing switches. It shits all over Magnezone which is really nice cuz I can't tell you how many times people send in Magnezone on my Scizor, I U-turn to Camerupt, and something dies. Zard-Y also has a pretty useless flying typing offensively, as it does not get any good STAB(don't say air slash) while Camerupt not only gets Earth Power but also Earthquake. Camerupt has more bulk which is further augmented by SR neutrality as to Zard-Y's 4x weakness. Zard-Y has stronger Fire Blast due to his sun, but Camerupt has stronger Earth Power. Finally, Zard-Y is completely shut down outside of sun. You can't do anything to Toed if it switches in on you, but Camerupt actually can hurt it back. The worst thing is that Zard-Y is shut down by mega Mence, while Camerupt can wisp any mega Mence switchins. I've even played around with HP Ice to hit Lati twins, Dnite, Mence, and BalloonTran. Honestly when you see Zard-Y you know that its Fire Blast / Solarbeam / Focus Blast / Roost with some people running dragon pulse. You only know 2 moves Camerupt is going to be running, so you have to be careful about switching into it.
Both have their separate roles, the only things similar about them is fire typing and having a mega. Other than that they play very differently, as I myself laddered for a long time using Valentine's in depth guide to Zard Y team, while mega Camerupt requires completely different team mates etc.
Both have their separate roles, the only things similar about them is fire typing and having a mega. Other than that they play very differently, as I myself laddered for a long time using Valentine's in depth guide to Zard Y team, while mega Camerupt requires completely different team mates etc.
Just a note, the only volt switcher in OU that can do something against M-rupt is Rotom-W
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 131-155 (43 - 50.9%) -- 55.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Don't need calcs to show how much Rotom-w does to this thing w/ Hpump.
Maybe M-rupt can run Hp grass? Don't know what it'll hit outside of swamp and rotom-w
252+ SpA Camerupt Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 148-176 (48.6 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Camerupt Hidden Power Grass vs. 100 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 292-344 (79.7 - 93.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 100 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 128-151 (34.9 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 131-155 (43 - 50.9%) -- 55.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Don't need calcs to show how much Rotom-w does to this thing w/ Hpump.
Maybe M-rupt can run Hp grass? Don't know what it'll hit outside of swamp and rotom-w
252+ SpA Camerupt Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 148-176 (48.6 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Camerupt Hidden Power Grass vs. 100 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 292-344 (79.7 - 93.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 100 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 128-151 (34.9 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Ha, I figured some of these calcs seemed off... yeah, you cannot switch into this monster.
Charizard-Y would kill to have Earth Power, let alone STAB Sheer Force Earth Power, which is an amazing secondary STAB which, along with Ancient Power, hits everything for Neutral damage.
Yes, Camerupt needs a somewhat specialized team to work with, but if you build around it (which means you'll need Volt and U-Turners/Baton Passers/Trick Roomers to get and maintain momentum), then that sheer ridiculous nuking power comes in handy. Yes, even if you have rocks up, the opponent can switch in Rotom-W.
But they can only do that twice.
Yes, Camerupt needs a somewhat specialized team to work with, but if you build around it (which means you'll need Volt and U-Turners/Baton Passers/Trick Roomers to get and maintain momentum), then that sheer ridiculous nuking power comes in handy. Yes, even if you have rocks up, the opponent can switch in Rotom-W.
But they can only do that twice.
You don't need hp grass because with SR up rotom can barely switch in twice against fire blast and swampert gets marked by earth power.
But seriously LOL a resisted fire blast is barely weaker than a SE hp grass. What a fucking monster.
Mega Camerupt's Fire Blast hits exactly as hard as Mega Mawile's Play Rough (against a neutral target with equal defences - e.g. something like Mew, Diggersby, Mega Manectric, etc. This is not counting investment like most of Mew's sets). Not entirely relevant as Mega Mawile is of course sitting in Ubers and has a miles better typing, but it does demonstrate how strong Camerupt's Fire Blast is as we all know how hard Mawile hits.
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 279-328 (69 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 279-328 (69 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 334-394 (118.8 - 140.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 333-393 (118.5 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Diggersby: 345-406 (110.5 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Diggersby: 345-406 (110.5 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I removed Intimidate from Mega Manectric just for the sake of the example.
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 279-328 (69 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 279-328 (69 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 334-394 (118.8 - 140.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 333-393 (118.5 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Diggersby: 345-406 (110.5 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Diggersby: 345-406 (110.5 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I removed Intimidate from Mega Manectric just for the sake of the example.
Well speaking of Camerupt cores check this out.
Camerupt + Slowking + Ferrothorn = Camercore!
Here is a nice little FWG core that is also perfectly complimentary to Camerupt. Slowking is there to take on Scalds with his great SpD and also set up Trick Room for the core to take advantage of. Regenerator and Lefties let him come in multiple times. Ferrothorn is physically defensive with Rocky Helmet to deter physical attackers, and also throws a mean Gyro Ball. Leftovers also prompts switches, allowing Camerupt to come in easier and throw out those Sheer Force boosted attacks.
What's nice is that the other half of your team can be a separate core that doesn't require Trick Room to be effective. Although a Diancie wouldn't hurt to deter Fly Spam and set up additional Trick Room if needed.
Camerupt + Slowking + Ferrothorn = Camercore!
Here is a nice little FWG core that is also perfectly complimentary to Camerupt. Slowking is there to take on Scalds with his great SpD and also set up Trick Room for the core to take advantage of. Regenerator and Lefties let him come in multiple times. Ferrothorn is physically defensive with Rocky Helmet to deter physical attackers, and also throws a mean Gyro Ball. Leftovers also prompts switches, allowing Camerupt to come in easier and throw out those Sheer Force boosted attacks.
What's nice is that the other half of your team can be a separate core that doesn't require Trick Room to be effective. Although a Diancie wouldn't hurt to deter Fly Spam and set up additional Trick Room if needed.
For a core that's supposed to perfectly compliment mega camerupt its quite annoyed by rotom-w :[Well speaking of Camerupt cores check this out.
Camerupt + Slowking + Ferrothorn = Camercore!
Here is a nice little FWG core that is also perfectly complimentary to Camerupt. Slowking is there to take on Scalds with his great SpD and also set up Trick Room for the core to take advantage of. Regenerator and Lefties let him come in multiple times. Ferrothorn is physically defensive with Rocky Helmet to deter physical attackers, and also throws a mean Gyro Ball. Leftovers also prompts switches, allowing Camerupt to come in easier and throw out those Sheer Force boosted attacks.
What's nice is that the other half of your team can be a separate core that doesn't require Trick Room to be effective. Although a Diancie wouldn't hurt to deter Fly Spam and set up additional Trick Room if needed.
Somewhat? Camerupt can switch into anything but Hydro Pump, and both of the others can take Hydro Pump, so it's very prediction based. If it's physically defensive it can't switch into Fire Blast more than twice with SR and if specially defensive Ferrothorn uses Power Whip.
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 131-155 (43 - 50.9%) -- 55.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
And it's just not a problem in Trick Room. If the spread of burns is the concern then carry a Cleric. Potentially Umbreon with Sunny Day support, because look at this.
252+ SpA Camerupt Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 294-348 (96.7 - 114.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Camerupt in Sun: 232-280 (67.4 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I figure Solarbeam is an option in your 4th slot over WoW if you carry something else with Sunny Day. It's also good for Umbreon's Moonlight.
I wonder if Mega Diancie would make a good Trick Room setter? That's one of its main roles back before it had a mega, setting Trick Room, maybe SR and maybe going boom.
Trick Room teams need to work outside of trick room as well. With the option to have base 50 or base 110 speed, Diancie is very adaptable and you can decide to mega based on how much you can get trick room up, and with the option to change its defenses and offenses around, you can decide if you want to take a sturdier role with Diancie and set up trick room a lot, or a more offensive role. Diancie can also try to continue a sweep even after Trick Room ends, by hitting the mega stone up on the last turn of trick room.
One little issue is your EVs, Diancie has to either fully invest its EVs and end up with a non-mega speed stat (218) still higher than most walls, or leave its EVs and nature out of speed and have its mega speed really slow (230) though at least it can beef up both offenses that way. Though 218 speed in its fully invested, non-mega form is lower than most of the stuff you'll find on an offense team, which is nice.
Trick Room teams need to work outside of trick room as well. With the option to have base 50 or base 110 speed, Diancie is very adaptable and you can decide to mega based on how much you can get trick room up, and with the option to change its defenses and offenses around, you can decide if you want to take a sturdier role with Diancie and set up trick room a lot, or a more offensive role. Diancie can also try to continue a sweep even after Trick Room ends, by hitting the mega stone up on the last turn of trick room.
One little issue is your EVs, Diancie has to either fully invest its EVs and end up with a non-mega speed stat (218) still higher than most walls, or leave its EVs and nature out of speed and have its mega speed really slow (230) though at least it can beef up both offenses that way. Though 218 speed in its fully invested, non-mega form is lower than most of the stuff you'll find on an offense team, which is nice.
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