There's also Mega Manectric, Weavile, Aerodactyl and Sceptile before Mega Evolving, Mega Pidgeot, and a TON of Dragon Dancers such as Mega T-tar, Gyarados and M-Alt.
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Other ORAS Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter alexwolf
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Adamant Bunny is fine as long as you are prepared for those faster threats (and you should be prepared for most outside of overextending Bunny anyways). Adamant is actually pretty good as a lot of "checks" to it hover in the 47 to 49% damage range for Jolly Lopunny's stronger STAB.
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-gizmo-
Smogon's Kingpin
Megaman speed tie really isn't worth much imo,since its Gyarados runs jolly in this metagame to outpace 135s anyways , and mega t-tar/weav/pidgeot really aren't used enough for me to think of it as a relevant threat, while tar and weav can't ohko, and of course in ou you want to prioritize relevant threats in building since there's just so much to beat in ORAS. And idk if someone would be willing to try to get the mega off on lop woth scep or aero, but again I'm not really sure if thats worth it, as adamant lop can break mons like magic guard and unaware clef, quagsire and skarmory with rocks up.
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SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
Mega Manectric should always run a Timid nature and just because Jolly Gyarados outspeeds it at +1 is not enough reason to go Modest. The speed tier between Adamant and Jolly is big, but there are not many pokemon that have the speed tier between 369 and 405. If your team can back up the added weakness to Weavile, LO Tornadus-T, Dragon Dancers (Adamant Gyarados, Altaria, Dragonite) and Scarfers (Magneton, Diggersby, Gothitelle) then I don't see a reason why you wouldn't consider Adamant (I don't say you should always go for Adamant if you can defeat mentioned threats, but it is definitely worth a consideration)
So... why is Mega Sableye really only found on stall? Both the utility and CM sets seem awesome for a balance team. I was talking about this with QuagGod and we built a balance M-Sable team. It's not perfect but the idea behind it works pretty well. We paired Utility Sableye up with Volcarona since Sab does a great job keeping rocks away.
I'm just surprised to only really find it on one team archetype when it can fit into more offensive playstyles as part of a defensive backbone since it isn't as passive as Chansey.
I'm just surprised to only really find it on one team archetype when it can fit into more offensive playstyles as part of a defensive backbone since it isn't as passive as Chansey.
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You only see it on stall because the ladder lacks so much diversity and catches up with the good stuff months later lol. I've been building M-Sableye balanced teams mostly on hazard stacking balanced which is where I think it truly shines. Whether or not people will start realizing it's not just a mon used on stall then maybe they'll get the picture.
When you say hazard stacking, do you mean getting up hazards, roaring them out, and preventing spin with m sableye being the basis of the strategy? Or is there some other point to the idea? I wasn't actually aware that hazard stacking was still a prominent thing since prankster roar riolu, so I'm not entirely sure how effective that strategy is. Not because I don't think it's good or anything, I've just never seen it in action, and I'm not sure what it entails. Could you elaborate?
Uh just to give you a basic idea of what an M-Sableye hazard stacking team would look like.
Utility M-Sableye, SR Setter, Spikes setter, Pursuit support, two extras generally wall-breakers, cleaners, stall-breakers etc. So a basic layout I've used is M-Sableye, SR Lando-T, Spikes Ferrothorn, Scarf Tyranitar, Specs Keldeo, CM Latios. Ignoring the massive fairy weakness it has, lol, basically you would emphasize on hazards wearing down the opponent with M-Sableye providing the spin blocking role. Scarf Tar deters the Latis from defogging. Generally the remaining partners after the hazard setting portion should focus on not only handling what weaknesses you have, what utility you need to check top tier threats, but also partners that threaten the common hazard removers of the meta in that time. M-Sableyes role is deterring their hazards while emphasizing on your own but in a much more focused manner. That's basically what I mean more or less.
For a balanced team like this, i find it pretty weird that you are in fact the one that's hazard weak the most, toxic spikes is quite a nightmare and you will be switching quite a lot, Toxic spikes is mainly used by Dragalge and you don't really want to take a Adaptability'd Draco meteor from it (it does like 50% to Sableye, less if you are careful max spdef, and sludge bomb poison without lefties+SS+maybe SR is as damaging imo). You'll most likely will have to lead with Sableye to mega evolve with it and use it as a "passive-spinner" which may not be the most reliable way imo. CMLatios is also a quite weak "win condition" tu use in balanced mirror imo, everyone already packs a scarfttar in balanced because Gengar 6-0 this playstyle so you won't really deal with them like that, and you are most likely rekt by Gross/Diancie/Gengar if you packs Hp fire which i assume you do / Lopunny against offense (btw lopunny with ice punch/power-up punch can destroy you easily), it's not an amazing set to play right now, but maybe it's my opinion.
Spikes stacking should put you in the mindset that you need to beat both offense and balanced/stall(well...balanced), i mean balanced is played because it has quite a good match-up against offense, you need to concentrate, and against opposing balanced they will wear you down because they can kill sableye and spinn off...but even if you do, you can't defog/spinn for crap so they will have a certain advantage against your team.
Team was made in like 5 minutes....3 months ago lol. I'd focus more on the roles I described than the actual team itself, the point of my post was just to give you an idea of roles more so than just what's on a team I just threw together for testing purposes. Toxic Spikes wasn't even a huge thing as it was now. Yeah everything else you said holds truth so I'd go with that.
Just popping in to say that Kyubes + bulky Starmie + Mega Sab is an incredibly effective core that I started using recently. I say this because Kyubes absolutely decimates the standard balance builds that are plaguing the metagame right now, and having an anti hazard core in Starmie + Mega Sab is a wet dream for this monster. Aside from stopping hazards, the two mons check / counter a plethora of threats in OU, including, but not limited to, Mega Gallade, Gengar (use SpDef Sab, it's amazing), Lando t, and pretty much any defensive mon not called Gliscor. Kyubes is just added to this because it takes on the few things that give this core trouble, such as Gliscor, Rotom-W, Mega. Gyarados, and has zero true counters. Also I really think that Kyurem is incredibly underrated right now, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it go up in usage from the pathetic, almost UU, benchmark it is currently sitting at.
Also I'm seeing more innovation, but that's for a different post. Kyubes and Meg Sab are still really good, although vastly underrated.
Also I'm seeing more innovation, but that's for a different post. Kyubes and Meg Sab are still really good, although vastly underrated.
Since you said destroys balance, what set did you have? If I had to guess, then I'd have to say either sub+3 attacks or specially based attacker. It does seem like an amazing core though.
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Rash Nature
- Roost
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt
Standard.Special attacker. Clef is annoying, so if youd rather beat that at the cost of beating Heatran and Rotom, run Iron Head > Earth Power and switch the Attack and SpAtk EVs and nature.
Yep, that is the same exact set that I was talking about. It absolutely kills everything if you can eliminate bulky steel types that don't get killed by earth power, and since you're using that set, you might want to use Magnezone to trap and kill Ferrothorn and Scizor, who would otherwise wall Kyurem-B. Make sure that mag runs choice scarf to outspeed SD mega scizor so that that you don't get bopped by superpower though.
Clefable will still get 2HKO'd with that spread, you don't need to change it.
56 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 265-312 (67.2 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Also you could always run it over Roost.
I prefer the Roost longevity--it's what let Kyu-B decimate balance teams. That being said, if you want to reliable beat Clefable, Iron Head is a must. Make sure to pair non-Roost Kyu-B with a reliable Defogger/spinner. It's SR weak and will quickly become worn down as a result. Personally, I really like Stamie with Kyurem-B. The typing synergy is good, and Starmie is incredibly reliable as a spinner. (It's also a good check to those pesky Keldeo that like to force out Kyu-B.)
Why isn't Adament scarf lando used more? Sure it loses speed ties to other scarf landos. But that acts as a "slow" U-Turn. You gain the ability to OHKO atk/spe metagross and you still loose to faster scarfers like Keldeo. The trade off for losing a speed tie with landos and swift swim swampert seems to be worth the extra power.
You miss the jump on Dragon Dancers such as Altaria, Gyarados and Charizard X, basically, which Lando-T is the best at stopping thanks to intimidate.
p2
Banned deucer.
Pretty sure Adamant Scarf Lando-T gets screwed over by DD'ers like Zard, Altaria and Gyarados since you can't outspeed them
Another problem of adamant landorus-therian scarfed is that it gets outspeeded by Mega Beedrill, Mega Sceptile, Mega Alakazam and Mega Aerodactyl. That's because they have more than 221 speed which is the speed of this type of landorus-T, while the jolly reaches 463 speed and outspeeds all of them. You can be also outspeeded by max speed DD Mega Altaria. For who thinks that you get outspeeded also by zard x or that Landorus-T is a good switch for charizard there was also a magic spread for Charizard-X used in XY (and i really think that is usable also on oras) who allowed you to outspeed jolly landorus-t after a dragon dance without losing too much bulkyness. For this and for other reasons like the possibility of being burned by wow charX, or the possibility of being deceived by Charizard's mega stone i think that Landorus-T may be the last switch-in for a Charizard.
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Theoretically though, Megaman/Ttar/Scizor take care of all the problems that addy lando faces from DD's. That and the volt-turn core formed by Megaman and Lando neuters a lot of DD's. Work up a defensive core and while Altaria/Zard would have the speed, they'd have either 0 or at worst +1 attack. Which while still dangerous is still manageable. Gyarados is checked by the core since it really doesn't want to take a volt switch in regular or a u-turn in mega.
Admittedly though that introduces a lot of mind games and predictions which is rather shaky. But so far Megaman/lando seem to appreciate the extra power from adamant.
Admittedly though that introduces a lot of mind games and predictions which is rather shaky. But so far Megaman/lando seem to appreciate the extra power from adamant.
Well I mean... if your team's really prepared to handle those threats, then I SUPPOSE you could use it, but Jolly's still the best set and those DDancers is one of the main reasons for using it. In addition, at the point you're completely structuring your team around compensating for Landorus-T's speed loss, you should probably start reconsidering what you're doing.
edit: please ignore this post; it was fucking stupid
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What kind of narrow thinking is this exactly? If you are prepared for DDers by all means run Adamant. The power increase is noticable enough and Lando has a ton of utility outside of checking DDers in the form of strong and fast Ground STAB and outstanding pivoting ability. Jolly is the best set because it's the most splashable, but you shouldn't go trying to jam the "best" set if you don't exactly need the cookie cutter set. Lando also usually is not a foundational core piece, more of a later process add-on so if you have a core built to handle certain thrats already there's no problem with that. That core metioned in the post you quoted also has a lot of milage and use outside of checking DDers so I wouldn't say it's specifically constructed for that purpose at first glance.
It's just a matter of Scarf Lando-T being the easiest to fit onto a general team when it's Jolly compared to Adamant, since one of its jobs, as noted, is stopping already boosted Dragon Dancers. Adamant is by no means unviable, several Zard-X's choosing the Speed creep anyway, so if your team needs an additional Metagross check and is already prepared for the DDers you miss out on, Adamant Lando by all means.
You just see Lando-T assumed to be Jolly because he's most often discussed here in a Vacuum, so it can't be assumed the threats beaten by Jolly>Adamant are handled by something else already.
You just see Lando-T assumed to be Jolly because he's most often discussed here in a Vacuum, so it can't be assumed the threats beaten by Jolly>Adamant are handled by something else already.
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