If you are running a scarf set, then I recommend that you run Magneton so that you can outspeed Talonflame and other similar speed tiered Pokemon.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Other ORAS Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter alexwolf
- Start date
- Status
-gizmo-
Smogon's Kingpin
The thing about that is while magneton's speed is at a better tier, it's very frail. It takes HUGE damage from moves that should be resists, and it cant be counted on as anything but a shaky check to most mons. I found it more justifiable when it outsped ninja, but now idk. I don't really care for either as a trapper as I find them to be inconsistent/liabilities sometimes. Just my opinion.
Magneton is still viable. While Greninja is gone, it still outspeeds Tornadus-T, Bird Jesus, Hawlucha, +1 Altaria (this is really relevant) and ties with +1 Adamant Gyarados if it's running Hidden Power Fire. Yes, it has taken a major blow in being unable to outrun the meta's formerly best Pokemon, but it is still usable.
-gizmo-
Smogon's Kingpin
Mysteria
I wasn't trying to say magneton isn't viable, didn't mean to seem like that. I just don't think it's as good, since it doesn't really function as I'd want a steel on offense to.
Though Adamant gyara isn't used anymore being outsped by lucha scept and mega man at +1(and beedrill too I guess)
I've also seen many jolly alts to outspeed jolly bisharp, which would then, in turn outspeed mag, and if they're running that much speed there's a good chanxe they have eq. It still has niches over zone of course in outspeeding faster birds, but I think zone is just more consistent in being an asset to teams,though it all comes down to how you build,what you're building, and what fills those holes.
I wasn't trying to say magneton isn't viable, didn't mean to seem like that. I just don't think it's as good, since it doesn't really function as I'd want a steel on offense to.
Though Adamant gyara isn't used anymore being outsped by lucha scept and mega man at +1(and beedrill too I guess)
I've also seen many jolly alts to outspeed jolly bisharp, which would then, in turn outspeed mag, and if they're running that much speed there's a good chanxe they have eq. It still has niches over zone of course in outspeeding faster birds, but I think zone is just more consistent in being an asset to teams,though it all comes down to how you build,what you're building, and what fills those holes.
Scarf Magneton does not outclass Magnezone, because besides checking birds and trapping steels, Magnezone also serves as a Fairy check, which Magneton can't really do due to its lesser bulk preventing it from switching into Fairy type attacks, as well as other stuff like Latis and Kyurem-B. Just to give you an idea :
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 137-162 (48.7 - 57.6%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magneton: 151-178 (62.6 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 211-250 (75 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magneton: 249-294 (103.3 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 151-178 (53.7 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magneton: 185-218 (76.7 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 187-221 (66.5 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magneton: 229-270 (95 - 112%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
As you can see that's a pretty significant difference in damage, and definitely makes Magnezone worth running over Magneton as a scarfer.
Thank you for informing me about the benefeits of using Magnezone over Magneton as a scarf user, and I have decided that whether you use Magnezone or Magneton on your team depends on what your team is weak to. If your team is weak to faries, then you should use Magnezone; however, you should use Magneton if your team is weaker to birdspam.
It's still Leftovers or that. But now Mega Metagross gets elemental punches plus its bulk making Skarmory a little risky to switch in to, but can Whirlwind it if you have the chance or have full health and Sturdy since M.Meta gets Tough Claws.
Mega meta barely 3hkos skarmory with thunder punch, and thunder punch is still a subpar choice for metagross.
Slowbro is still barely 3hkoed by t-punch, and even if you run t-punch counter skarm still wins.
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 136-160 (40.7 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
The only way you are pressuring Skarm is through some kind of EQ-TPunch 50/50, and Slowbro can just stall and Scald.
Even if Meta isn't OHKOed by Counter, it can't finish Skarm anyways, so Skarm can just Roost and Counter again.
Tbh let's all agree Mega Metagross is bulky, can make huge dents, and well Rip if you don't have counter Pkmn.
FrocoTerra
Banned deucer.
OK, having just found out the Pinsir learns Stealth Rock, (?!?) I wanted to know if there's any reason at all that you might run that on a Mega Pinsir. I can't for the life of me think of a reason you would, but it would be so funny that I really want to. I mean, Pinsir!???!? Stealth Rocks!?!
Amusing though it sounds, it doesn't make much sense practically. You want your STAB, Quick Attack, and your coverage move, so the only move you could consider replacing is Swords Dance. Unfortunately, Swords Dance is part of the reason that Pinsir is so good against stall and balance teams, and against offense, +2 Quick Attacks can clean up very well. Pinsir doesn't exactly have the typing, defenses, or speed to set up Stealth Rock reliably. It's not really an effective option.
The main problem of counter skarmory is that if you use Sturdy Skarmory it negates you the access to Brave Bird, which is really important when facing opponents like Mega Lopunny or Mega Gallade (There are also other for sure). Skarmory can just run 29 ivs in speed to be slower than -2 MMetagross and roost one time plus to have chance to setup hazards or simply use whirlwind, rather than using counter.
-gizmo-
Smogon's Kingpin
The thing is that whirlwinding it away really doesn't get rid of it, unless you can keep a couple layer of spikes at all times during the game somehow, but skarmory would be on a passive build, so I doubt that. Mega gallade and lopunny are much more easily dealt with so you could live without skarm being able to touch them. Unaware clef is commonly found on stall and switches into both well as long as it stays healthy for example.
Well, using brave bird skarmory doesn't force you to find a counter/check to both pokemons (like in this case Unaware Clefable). Brave Bird Skarmory also can find a way to deal with Mega Venusaur (Unaware clefable is weak to him), as long it's enough weak and is not offensive, so same story as before. There are are things that can check MMeta, and doesn't force you to use counter skarmory and get weak to other pokemons. Usually every team has a way to deal with MMetagross as long the team it's built good.
Last edited:
-gizmo-
Smogon's Kingpin
Well thinking of skarmory, you'd know its at home on very passive teams most times, and on passive teams, you want solid switchins to threatening pokemon in the current metagame. Skarmory isnt the most solid switchin to lopunny as ican 2hko with adamant high jump kick after rocks(yes, people do run adamant lop)
252+ Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 138-163 (41.3 - 48.8%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
The only important thing ada lop misses out on is torn-t, but that doesn't really run max BUT that's a different conversation.
And gallade..yeah..
+2 252 Atk Mega Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 265-313 (79.3 - 93.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Idk about hitting venu either because you don't exactly swallow hp fire
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 184-218 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 136-162 (40.7 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
As i said, if it's weak enough and to add to what i said before, if it fulfill the circumstances, because we all know that Mega Venusaur would win most of the times.
Lol at people who are using adamant Mega Lopunny, that doesn't do at least the speed tie to other Mega Lopunnies/Mega Manectric and that loses also to Scarf Magneton and Alakazam/Aerodactyl.
Yes but the main problem is that with counter you can't deal with special users like Keldeo, Gardevoir, Gengar, Celebi, Mega Venusaur ecc.. without using another teammate.
Last edited:
Skarmory shouldn't be staying in to deal with those things anyways, so it should have a teammate regardless of what attack it carries. I see no problem with Counter Skarmory considering how physically offensive the metagame is right now.
I absolutely agree that it shouldn't deal with those pokemons, but a lot of situations can happen that forces Skarmory to deal with they.
- Status