This is quite conceptually wrong. Pinsir is one of the Pokemon that can capitacapitalize the most on death foddering with Moxie so switching something into it that loses to it is just a bad play and the best defensive response is clearly to just stay in and hit it or just switch to a revenge killer or something that can take 2 hits or a +2 hit (granted there are few but if Pinsir is against a Pokemon it can force out like say Tangela most likely the team is balanced and has a rhydon mawile costa or something that can take a +2 hit). Also the strenght of +3 quick attack which is a very rare situation is being a little overstated especially considering from full even Pokemon like Zebstrika and Electrode can take it.
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Resource ORAS NU Viability Rankings (Under Construction)
- Thread starter Ares
- Start date
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Small update
Some of the council wanted to drop Aurorus from A- to B+, I personally think it deserves A- and I know that a lot of other people do as well. So before that happens I would like to see some discussion on that.
Code:
Cacturne A- --> B+
Pelipper B --> B+
Pawniard B --> B+
Barbaracle B+ --> A-
Primeape B- --> B
Mr. Mime C --> C+
SD isn't common at all. all people use are stealth rock and choice band, so yes, a common scenario is the opponent goes to some middle ground option that can scout what move it wants to lock into (esp garbodor, which gets tossed by +2 life orb eq).
I think Aurorus should stay A-, it's position in the current meta is good. It checks most of the high-ranked mons such as Xatu, Archeops, Rhydon, and Shiftry if it is running Rock Polish. It also carries two great abilities which make nukes of it's Ice type stab, and it can break Focus Sashes with Snow Warning. Another niche is it can fill both an offensive and defensive roles, with support moves like Encore and Stealth Rock. You are right Montsegur, Aurorus does deserve A-.
I mean Stealth Rock shows Mold Breaker so unless people commonly fun Moldy SD it is a reasonable assumption to predict SD when not shown. I don't have any experience with CB sets but they aren't in the analysis and I honestly don't see much appeal in being locked in moved such as Earthquake without Mold Breaker or an easily resisted move such as X Scissors.
Maaaan after all that this is what Mime gets? Surely it is at least on par with the B- Ranks in this meta at least.
Perhaps this is just my soft spot for Aurorus, but I still feel Aurorus can hold its own well in this meta. Sure, Fighting-types becoming popular is bad for it, but Ice Dino here still had a good amount of wallbreaking opportunities, and it's still just as hard to wall as ever.
Using its substantial bulk and somehow useful defensive typing, it can easily take advantage of mons like Skuntank, Psychic-types, and the increasingly popular bulky Poison-types as well as Flying-types not named Archeops, and start doing large chunks of damage; Aurorus can even easily adapt itself to break them more effectively by running Nature Power to dodge Skuntank's Sucker Punch and render it even more helpless (while inflicting bs hax in the process :PPP), use Frost Breath to blow past Calm Mind boosts, or even forgo Refrigerate boosted hits in favor of Snow Warning to completely screw over Musharna (if combined with Frost Breath). Cryogonal dropping in favor means there are even fewer foes that can take Aurorus's hits; Hariyama is still a thing but not all of them run Thick Fat these days, while Piloswine is cleanly 3HKOed by Specs Hyper Voice so it can only switch into Aurorus once. With the resurgence of weather, Scarf Snow Warning Aurorus doesn't look to have fallen in favor either, and few weather teams have much to take Aurorus's attacks, especially with the loss of their bulkiest team member in Uxie.
While the increase in Fighting mons spells trouble for Aurorus, Aurorus's wallbreaking capabilities have not waned enough (heck, they're probably improved) to warrant a drop imo, so I'd preferably keep Aurorus where it is.
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Just because Aurorus is hard to switch into doesn't mean it shouldn't drop. If I was judging Aurorus purely on its ability to break fat shit, then yes, I probably wouldn't say it should drop. But the reason I think it should is because it's nowhere near as splashable as most of the other mons in A-. I've literally never used Aurorus on any team that I wasn't specifically building around it because it does almost nothing other than wallbreak. It's slow and relies purely on its bulk to take any hits, and while I will say it is actually pretty bulky and can check some weaker mons pretty well, being able to switch into passive stuff and force them out isn't exactly a rare trait. Most importantly, it's the only Rock-type in the entire tier that can't switch in on non-Swellow Normal-types, which is massively crippling for teambuilding and compared to other "unwallable" breakers like Sawk or Magmortar, the biggest difference is that they actually do stuff other than wallbreak. Sawk serves as a one-time catch all to any non-Klinklang sweeper because of Sturdy, and Magmortar gives useful resistances to Ice, Grass, and Fire (and they're both also a lot faster).
Honestly I think Aurorus would be better in mid-B especially when stuff like Beheeyem and Bouffalant are there too, but B+ works I guess.
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On another note, Cryo should really drop to somewhere in C, it's been really bad for a long time and I feel like anyone who's actually used Vanilluxe knows how much better it is in this meta. The weakness to priority and Pursuit is just awful for it especially when Speed is its biggest niche.
Honestly I think Aurorus would be better in mid-B especially when stuff like Beheeyem and Bouffalant are there too, but B+ works I guess.
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On another note, Cryo should really drop to somewhere in C, it's been really bad for a long time and I feel like anyone who's actually used Vanilluxe knows how much better it is in this meta. The weakness to priority and Pursuit is just awful for it especially when Speed is its biggest niche.
Agreed with Cryo dropping. Even if only using joke teams, it has been huge Pika-bait everytime and that also meant it failed to do its job (spinning). I've never seen Cryo succesfully spin when using joke teams... (I did not use serious teams for a long while, I can't imagine Cryo doing any better against those).
Talking about Pika, this is what happens if you don't teambuild with it in mind:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-258202568
Not the first, and certainly not the last victim.
Talking about Pika, this is what happens if you don't teambuild with it in mind:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-258202568
Not the first, and certainly not the last victim.
Since I was originally the one to nominate Aurorus to A-, I'll defend its placing.
I don't see the problem with this? Magmortar and Sawk do almost nothing other than wall break and because of that they're able to hold their A+ and S ranks, respectively. Clearly, that's not all they have going for them, but I'll argue that Aurorus has plenty going on for it to maintain a ranking that's close to both of them.
I'll give you slow because, yeah, Aurorus is slow and that's its worst quality, but its ability to take hits shouldn't be important when it's an offensive wall breaker. You don't switch in Sawk to tank a hit and retaliate. You bring in Sawk safely using momentum cores/double switching to put yourself in an advantageous position. Similarly, Aurorus does have a perfectly viable Choice Scarf set that outruns the entire unboosted meta, aside from Swellow which it beats 1v1 anyways. It's significantly weaker, but it can single-handedly destroy every weather abuser outside of resist berries and stoutland. You can also make a case for the Rock Polish set which can grab a boost using offensive pressure vs a defensive Grass-type or something similar.
Archeops, Kabutops, and Barbaracle are equally shitty Normal-type checks and they either hold the same rank as Aurorus right now or higher ranks. It's also not as important for a mon utilizing a great offensive typing to be able to use that typing defensively when they're an offensive pokemon. If you want a Normal-type check, you can run a bulky Ghost-type, Gurdurr, or god forbid stack types by running a bulky Rock-type too. Aurorus's typing lets it get past opposing bulky Ice-types, a fairly useful Flying resist (especially when the only Flying-type in the tier that can put on serious damage to it is Archeops and Aurorus lives an EQ from full anyways), and an alternative way of hitting opposing bulky Fire-types, such as AV Mag, that otherwise give strong Ice-types shit.
And Aurorus does plenty outside of "just wall breaking" too. It's one of the best offensive Stealth Rock setters in the tier with its Focus Sash set because of its ability to beat Xatu and opposing Sash leads, provides anti-weather support with Snow Warning (which has plenty of utility to it outside of just removing the current weather status with its ability to whittle opponents/negate leftovers) as stated before, revenge killing support with Choice Scarf, and has useful resistances of its own like Flying-, Poison-, and Ice-types. And yes, aside from an odd Archeops or opposing Aurorus, Aurorus can switch in comfortably against most monts in these typing categories.
Bouff has maybe 2 good sets and is much easier to wall due to its limited coverage. Beheeyem has 1 great set that's nigh unwallable, but that's the only good set. Aurorus has 3 great sets (Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, and Focus Sash lead) and one alright set (Rock Polish). If it was just the Choice Specs set, I'd agree Aurorus would be comparable to the likes of Beheeyem, but it's on a much higher level of viability in my honest opinion.
I think Hitmonchan should drop to B- Rank. Hitmonchan is just outclassed too much offensively by Sawk and Gurdurr, so it needs Rapid Spin to be effective. That gives up a moveslot which can be used for coverage. Another major flaw of Hitmonchan's is that it cannot touch most Ghost types. The ones it can touch generally outspeed and 2HKO it. Personally, I also think it is outclassed by Claydol in terms of spinning. However, it does have the niche of being able to hit common defoggers and rockers with its coverage. These mons include Pelipper, Sandslash, and Claydol. It also has unnaturally high special defense for a Fighting type, which are a few of the reasons why it should not drop further.
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Hitmonchan still 2HKO's other Ghosts like Haunter, Mismagius and Rotom easily. Just because Ice Punch isn't super effective doesn't mean it doesn't maim them. He can also spin against them with Foresight or just knock them out with Drain Punch afterwards. But yes, it's outclassed offensively by Sawk and with hazard removal/prevention options like Xatu, Cryogonal or Pelipper available Hitmonchan is far from optimal right now.
Nomming ferroseed to B/B+
I feel like people give this more flack than this deserves just for being bodied by xatu, when in reality ferro brings a lot to the table for teams in the current metagame. Being a rocker/hazard setter that doesn’t automatically get flattened by offensive grass and water types (cough rhydon cough) can be important for a team. It also checks numerous threats that few other mons can claim to do, such as both special and physical samurott, where most defensive pokemon can only check one or the other. for example, vileplume loses to ice beam on the special set, and lanturn crumbles to boosted megahorn from the physical set. Iron Barbs and incredible physical bulk allow it to soft check pretty much every non-fighting type physical attacker in the tier.
A major reason people might consider other defensive options, such as plume, would be because of ferroseeds passive nature and not being that hard to take advantage of, but ferroseed can combat this with its incredible support movepool. Powerful attackers such as sawk, primeape, magmortar, and pyroar can’t switch in mindlessly, lest they get crippled by t-wave. Taunt and sub users can really bother ferroseed, but the vast majority of common sub/taunt users have trouble with ferro- if it carries knock off (which it should), klingklang can’t really set up on it. Mismagius and haunter can’t 2HKO with STAB shadow balls, can’t hold up their subs, and thus risk getting caught by twave, and if they carry taunt then they take a lot of damage from the attack move. Skunk can taunt but can’t do anything back to ferro, unless its the fairly uncommon special variant. Granted, bulkier things such as malamar can set up on it without too much trouble, but leech seed really helps its teammates deal with these sorts of threats to ferroseed.
Another thing I think people overlook is its overall good matchup against opposing hazard removal. The only spinners ferro loses to 1v1 are hitmonchan (not that common) and torkoal (not common and a shitty spinner). Ferro completely bodies non-superpower kabutops, can take whatever claydol/sandslash wants to throw at it and set up leech seed/hazards in its face. With defoggers, ferroseed beats all the defensive (prinp, pelipper) with leech seed while only shiftry and special skunk are the only offensive ones that pose much of a threat to it—both of which get crippled by twave.
And even though ferroseed will never get around xatu on its own, this tier shift gave us two dark types that can mess with xatu, one of which switches in with ease and can pursuit it. Ferroseed is underrated in general, and its biggest problem has become easier to manage in this meta, and warrants a rise.
I feel like people give this more flack than this deserves just for being bodied by xatu, when in reality ferro brings a lot to the table for teams in the current metagame. Being a rocker/hazard setter that doesn’t automatically get flattened by offensive grass and water types (cough rhydon cough) can be important for a team. It also checks numerous threats that few other mons can claim to do, such as both special and physical samurott, where most defensive pokemon can only check one or the other. for example, vileplume loses to ice beam on the special set, and lanturn crumbles to boosted megahorn from the physical set. Iron Barbs and incredible physical bulk allow it to soft check pretty much every non-fighting type physical attacker in the tier.
A major reason people might consider other defensive options, such as plume, would be because of ferroseeds passive nature and not being that hard to take advantage of, but ferroseed can combat this with its incredible support movepool. Powerful attackers such as sawk, primeape, magmortar, and pyroar can’t switch in mindlessly, lest they get crippled by t-wave. Taunt and sub users can really bother ferroseed, but the vast majority of common sub/taunt users have trouble with ferro- if it carries knock off (which it should), klingklang can’t really set up on it. Mismagius and haunter can’t 2HKO with STAB shadow balls, can’t hold up their subs, and thus risk getting caught by twave, and if they carry taunt then they take a lot of damage from the attack move. Skunk can taunt but can’t do anything back to ferro, unless its the fairly uncommon special variant. Granted, bulkier things such as malamar can set up on it without too much trouble, but leech seed really helps its teammates deal with these sorts of threats to ferroseed.
Another thing I think people overlook is its overall good matchup against opposing hazard removal. The only spinners ferro loses to 1v1 are hitmonchan (not that common) and torkoal (not common and a shitty spinner). Ferro completely bodies non-superpower kabutops, can take whatever claydol/sandslash wants to throw at it and set up leech seed/hazards in its face. With defoggers, ferroseed beats all the defensive (prinp, pelipper) with leech seed while only shiftry and special skunk are the only offensive ones that pose much of a threat to it—both of which get crippled by twave.
And even though ferroseed will never get around xatu on its own, this tier shift gave us two dark types that can mess with xatu, one of which switches in with ease and can pursuit it. Ferroseed is underrated in general, and its biggest problem has become easier to manage in this meta, and warrants a rise.
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Sweet Jesus
Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...
I disagree. I was thinking the same as you about him being outclassed, but lately I've used him and realized people concentrate too much on the fact he doesn't have knock off. I'm going to concentrate on the assault vest set because it's the one I've used.
Hitmonchan's iron fist makes drain punch and ice punch 90 bp moves which is pretty respectable considering your stab heals you a whole lot with your shit hp and amazing sp.d (with AV). Ice punch being hitmonchan's only coverage move is not that bad either. At 90 bp, it's basically a physical ice beam and hits a whole lot of things that prepare so much for knock off with a colbur they actually counter sawk and gurdurr better than hitmonchan. Ice punch actually hits some of the most common threats that hold a colbur for super effective too like xatu and golurk and none of NU's best ghosts takes one well at all and they can only hope to retalliate with a will-o-wisp (mismagius, rotom, golurk, haunter, gourgeist). Another thing that's often said about hitmonchan is how he's not doing much to bulky mons but a lot of those are either weak to drain punch or ice punch or do such shitty damage that hitmonchan can heal most off with a medium power drain punch. One final thing I'd like to say about hitmonchan is how devastating he can be with burn support. Having teamates burn multiple opponents (I used sub wow pyroar) makes hitmonchan a true king as it patches his weak defence and can get him the kill on things that would usually heal in his face like wish protect megadino.
Gonna suggest a couple of drops to go against ranking inflation.
Prinplup to B. Now that we have 3 new ways of removing hazards to compete with prinplup's defog he loses a big part of his niche.
Torterra to B. I feel this thing never belonged in the A tier. I mean it's surprising as nothing else comes close to hitting this hard with a physical grass move, but grass is still a rather bad typing for spamming which makes a choice band a dangerous item. Torterra is also pretty slow and his typing is rather mediocre defensively as his main niche is to resist edge-quake but NU's best edge-quaker also runs megahorn.
Shedinja to D. I'm not gonna say you can't make this thing work because you can, but it is really gimmicky and depends a whole lot on team match up (a simple snow warning aurorus is deavstating for shedinja). We do have a meta where hazards can be kept rather easily off the field if you build in such a way, but very often, shedinja isn't even worth the trouble of keeping hazards off the field. The fact lanturn sometimes runs toxic also kills what would have otherwise been his main asset in one game out of 5.
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You're focusing solely too much on the Grass STAB to realize that Torterra is still one of the best EQ spammers in the tier, not to mention it is one of the best EQ resists as well, and having both in one is really nice to have in this current meta. It's not like Grass is a bad typing either, as Torterra's coverage is remarkably hard to wall outside of super bulky resists like Weezing and Gourgeist. Rhydon also doesn't run Megahorn that often since DualDance is more common and popular (of which Torterra becomes one of the hardest stops to it in the tier), and considering Rhydon's prominence and the Pursuit-happy meta, having a solid offensive Ground switch-in can be highly favorable. Torterra can still function as a tank, thanks to access to reliable recovery, to blanket check things like Kabutops, Mawile, Shiftry, Hariyama, etc. in addition to Tauros, so it definitely still has defensive worth. Torterra imo performs better than a majority of B+ mons anyway.
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I have two nominations that may seem a bit weird, but here goes nothing...
Ariados to C-
Ariados is a very under-represented sticky web user imho. Having used it on multiple teams (including my Dark Horse team that went kinda well) I've found it does 1 of 3 things: check Malamar which is a huge problem for sticky web teams, kill something with Swam-boosted Megahorn, or set up Webs AND a layer of Toxic Spikes or damage opposing leads. And i have found it to be rather decent at doing those three things, if you play your cards right.
First, checking Malamar. If you're using a webs team, you should never set up webs first if they have a Malamar. Instead, you play the battle as normal until Malamar comes out. THen, you go to Ariados, predicting a Superpower which does nothing (+1 4 Atk Malamar Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ariados: 40-47 (14.2 - 16.7%) -- possible 6HKO) and then you can freely Megahorn, knowing whatever they send in is taking quite a bit from STAB base 120 power off of 90 attack. Then you can repeat this process until the rest of the team has taken significant damage from Megahorn or Malamar is dead. But can't other webs setters do this? NOPE. None of the other webs setters (bar Bug Buzz Masquerain xd) can come out of this scenario without major damage, or do it more than once like Ariados can. They all take too much from Superpower to relaibly check Malamar more than once which then becomes a problem for the rest of your team.
Second, setting up multiple hazards. NO other webs setter can set up more than one hazard, and if you come up on an opposing lead you can usually get up Sticky Web and one Toxic Spike/Megahorn/Sucker Punch off. But can't the other webs setters do that? Leavanny can dish out major damage with Leaf Storm, but after that it's rather useless because its uninvested X-Scissor does very little damage to neutral targets, and Endeavor is easily played around with things such as Rotom-N and Mismagius floating around. This means that Ariados is considerably harder to "wall" (as in take less damage from) than the other two setters.
Lastly, doing damage. While Leavanny may have a powerful Leaf Storm, and Kricketune can get any mon down to 1 hp, but they can't really KILL things. If you lead with Ariados and don't think the opposing team needs to be Sticky Webbed/want to smack a Xatu, just click Megahorn. It beats pretty much every mon that isn't a bulky resist with two megahorns because Swarm-boosted Megahorn does a fuckton of damage to everything (252+ Atk Swarm Ariados Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Miltank: 192-226 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, for example, on one of the most physically bulky mons in NU) and most of the time kills after another unboosted Megahorn.
I am by no means saying that Ariados is super amazing, but I feel it's at least on the level of Kricketune and shouldn't be lumped with things like things like Frillish and Dusclops.
My next nom is
Kadabra to B-
I'm sorry to all those whose Dark Horse teams might get messed up, but this thing is an absolute monster of a Psychic-type. It has a really nice speed tier which is higher than all the other Psychics in the tier, and it has a HUGE damage output off of 120 base special attack which makes it a threat whenever it comes in. It may not be able to beat any of the Dark-types unless you're like SubDisable or something odd like that,and it may be rather frail and not able to come in on many attacks, but then again, most frail offensive attackers don't either, and they don't have the great combo of speed, power, coverage, and ability that Kadabra has. I'm not gonna write a huge wall of text like I did for Ariadons because it's fairly obvious what Kadabra does, but here's some calcs:
As you can see, it has the coverage and the power to 2hko many of the most common mons in NU (these were literally ripped from the top of the usage at 1630). This and it speed and very useful ability that allows it to not take damage from Life Orb, hazards, Toxic and burn, make me think that Kadabra is at least worth B-, if not higher.
Ariados is a very under-represented sticky web user imho. Having used it on multiple teams (including my Dark Horse team that went kinda well) I've found it does 1 of 3 things: check Malamar which is a huge problem for sticky web teams, kill something with Swam-boosted Megahorn, or set up Webs AND a layer of Toxic Spikes or damage opposing leads. And i have found it to be rather decent at doing those three things, if you play your cards right.
First, checking Malamar. If you're using a webs team, you should never set up webs first if they have a Malamar. Instead, you play the battle as normal until Malamar comes out. THen, you go to Ariados, predicting a Superpower which does nothing (+1 4 Atk Malamar Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ariados: 40-47 (14.2 - 16.7%) -- possible 6HKO) and then you can freely Megahorn, knowing whatever they send in is taking quite a bit from STAB base 120 power off of 90 attack. Then you can repeat this process until the rest of the team has taken significant damage from Megahorn or Malamar is dead. But can't other webs setters do this? NOPE. None of the other webs setters (bar Bug Buzz Masquerain xd) can come out of this scenario without major damage, or do it more than once like Ariados can. They all take too much from Superpower to relaibly check Malamar more than once which then becomes a problem for the rest of your team.
Second, setting up multiple hazards. NO other webs setter can set up more than one hazard, and if you come up on an opposing lead you can usually get up Sticky Web and one Toxic Spike/Megahorn/Sucker Punch off. But can't the other webs setters do that? Leavanny can dish out major damage with Leaf Storm, but after that it's rather useless because its uninvested X-Scissor does very little damage to neutral targets, and Endeavor is easily played around with things such as Rotom-N and Mismagius floating around. This means that Ariados is considerably harder to "wall" (as in take less damage from) than the other two setters.
Lastly, doing damage. While Leavanny may have a powerful Leaf Storm, and Kricketune can get any mon down to 1 hp, but they can't really KILL things. If you lead with Ariados and don't think the opposing team needs to be Sticky Webbed/want to smack a Xatu, just click Megahorn. It beats pretty much every mon that isn't a bulky resist with two megahorns because Swarm-boosted Megahorn does a fuckton of damage to everything (252+ Atk Swarm Ariados Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Miltank: 192-226 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, for example, on one of the most physically bulky mons in NU) and most of the time kills after another unboosted Megahorn.
I am by no means saying that Ariados is super amazing, but I feel it's at least on the level of Kricketune and shouldn't be lumped with things like things like Frillish and Dusclops.
My next nom is
I'm sorry to all those whose Dark Horse teams might get messed up, but this thing is an absolute monster of a Psychic-type. It has a really nice speed tier which is higher than all the other Psychics in the tier, and it has a HUGE damage output off of 120 base special attack which makes it a threat whenever it comes in. It may not be able to beat any of the Dark-types unless you're like SubDisable or something odd like that,and it may be rather frail and not able to come in on many attacks, but then again, most frail offensive attackers don't either, and they don't have the great combo of speed, power, coverage, and ability that Kadabra has. I'm not gonna write a huge wall of text like I did for Ariadons because it's fairly obvious what Kadabra does, but here's some calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malamar: 354-416 (94.1 - 110.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO (other psychics bar hp bug mime can't do this)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Hidden Power Ground vs. 16 HP / 252 SpD Skuntank: 174-205 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (can't switch in after hazards, and that's a kinda weird set)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Pawniard: 221-260 (95.6 - 112.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (dies)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Xatu: 218-257 (65.2 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (dies)
Okay, so it can beat most of its switchins. But how does it's damage output fare against some of the most common mons in NU?
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Energy Ball vs. 40 HP / 216+ SpD Lanturn: 216-255 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (dies)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Hidden Power Ground vs. 16 HP / 252 SpD Skuntank: 174-205 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (can't switch in after hazards, and that's a kinda weird set)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Pawniard: 221-260 (95.6 - 112.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (dies)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Xatu: 218-257 (65.2 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (dies)
Okay, so it can beat most of its switchins. But how does it's damage output fare against some of the most common mons in NU?
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Energy Ball vs. 40 HP / 216+ SpD Lanturn: 216-255 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (dies)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Signal Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mesprit: 192-229 (63.5 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (dies)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mismagius: 175-207 (54 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (dies)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mawile: 260-307 (107.8 - 127.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (dies)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Hidden Power Ground vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 185-218 (65.1 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (even psychic breaks sub)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Claydol: 205-244 (63.2 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (signal beam also 2hkos)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mismagius: 175-207 (54 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (dies)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mawile: 260-307 (107.8 - 127.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (dies)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Hidden Power Ground vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 185-218 (65.1 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (even psychic breaks sub)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Claydol: 205-244 (63.2 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (signal beam also 2hkos)
As you can see, it has the coverage and the power to 2hko many of the most common mons in NU (these were literally ripped from the top of the usage at 1630). This and it speed and very useful ability that allows it to not take damage from Life Orb, hazards, Toxic and burn, make me think that Kadabra is at least worth B-, if not higher.
Deej Dy
Verified Ladder Scurb 乁( ◔ ౪◔)ㄏ
I'm not quite sold on your argument for Kadabra, as you are using life orb calcs when clearly the sash set is better in this meta with all the pursuit trappers and whatnot.I have two nominations that may seem a bit weird, but here goes nothing...
Ariados to C-
Ariados is a very under-represented sticky web user imho. Having used it on multiple teams (including my Dark Horse team that went kinda well) I've found it does 1 of 3 things: check Malamar which is a huge problem for sticky web teams, kill something with Swam-boosted Megahorn, or set up Webs AND a layer of Toxic Spikes or damage opposing leads. And i have found it to be rather decent at doing those three things, if you play your cards right.
First, checking Malamar. If you're using a webs team, you should never set up webs first if they have a Malamar. Instead, you play the battle as normal until Malamar comes out. THen, you go to Ariados, predicting a Superpower which does nothing (+1 4 Atk Malamar Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ariados: 40-47 (14.2 - 16.7%) -- possible 6HKO) and then you can freely Megahorn, knowing whatever they send in is taking quite a bit from STAB base 120 power off of 90 attack. Then you can repeat this process until the rest of the team has taken significant damage from Megahorn or Malamar is dead. But can't other webs setters do this? NOPE. None of the other webs setters (bar Bug Buzz Masquerain xd) can come out of this scenario without major damage, or do it more than once like Ariados can. They all take too much from Superpower to relaibly check Malamar more than once which then becomes a problem for the rest of your team.
Second, setting up multiple hazards. NO other webs setter can set up more than one hazard, and if you come up on an opposing lead you can usually get up Sticky Web and one Toxic Spike/Megahorn/Sucker Punch off. But can't the other webs setters do that? Leavanny can dish out major damage with Leaf Storm, but after that it's rather useless because its uninvested X-Scissor does very little damage to neutral targets, and Endeavor is easily played around with things such as Rotom-N and Mismagius floating around. This means that Ariados is considerably harder to "wall" (as in take less damage from) than the other two setters.
Lastly, doing damage. While Leavanny may have a powerful Leaf Storm, and Kricketune can get any mon down to 1 hp, but they can't really KILL things. If you lead with Ariados and don't think the opposing team needs to be Sticky Webbed/want to smack a Xatu, just click Megahorn. It beats pretty much every mon that isn't a bulky resist with two megahorns because Swarm-boosted Megahorn does a fuckton of damage to everything (252+ Atk Swarm Ariados Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Miltank: 192-226 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, for example, on one of the most physically bulky mons in NU) and most of the time kills after another unboosted Megahorn.
I am by no means saying that Ariados is super amazing, but I feel it's at least on the level of Kricketune and shouldn't be lumped with things like things like Frillish and Dusclops.
My next nom isKadabra to B-
I'm sorry to all those whose Dark Horse teams might get messed up, but this thing is an absolute monster of a Psychic-type. It has a really nice speed tier which is higher than all the other Psychics in the tier, and it has a HUGE damage output off of 120 base special attack which makes it a threat whenever it comes in. It may not be able to beat any of the Dark-types unless you're like SubDisable or something odd like that,and it may be rather frail and not able to come in on many attacks, but then again, most frail offensive attackers don't either, and they don't have the great combo of speed, power, coverage, and ability that Kadabra has. I'm not gonna write a huge wall of text like I did for Ariadons because it's fairly obvious what Kadabra does, but here's some calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malamar: 354-416 (94.1 - 110.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO (other psychics bar hp bug mime can't do this)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Hidden Power Ground vs. 16 HP / 252 SpD Skuntank: 174-205 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (can't switch in after hazards, and that's a kinda weird set)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Pawniard: 221-260 (95.6 - 112.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (dies)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Xatu: 218-257 (65.2 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (dies)
Okay, so it can beat most of its switchins. But how does it's damage output fare against some of the most common mons in NU?
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Energy Ball vs. 40 HP / 216+ SpD Lanturn: 216-255 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (dies)252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Signal Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mesprit: 192-229 (63.5 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (dies)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mismagius: 175-207 (54 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (dies)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mawile: 260-307 (107.8 - 127.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (dies)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Hidden Power Ground vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 185-218 (65.1 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (even psychic breaks sub)
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Claydol: 205-244 (63.2 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (signal beam also 2hkos)
As you can see, it has the coverage and the power to 2hko many of the most common mons in NU (these were literally ripped from the top of the usage at 1630). This and it speed and very useful ability that allows it to not take damage from Life Orb, hazards, Toxic and burn, make me think that Kadabra is at least worth B-, if not higher.
Also how does Ariados check Malamar? Don't you use it a suicide lead turn 1 in order to get up sticky webs? I don't see it being able to come out of that unscathed and then come back and revenge kill a Malamar (esp if malamar can outspeed it witha sticky webs speed boost). I also would pick Dusclops in an instant over Ariados, it is a terrible, terrible pokemon and I've tried in on a number of joke teams with less success than even Speed pass Torchic (before Busk dropped). In fact it maybe even be worse than it ever was with more prevalent defoggers and spinners and hazard control in general in NU at the moment.
Ariados is also WEAK to Malamar as it gets destroyed by Psycho Cut on the three attacks set. It does not check Malamar at all. Anyway, I have another nom:
Skuntank for A Rank. Skuntank possesses a good trait of being able to take on types one of it's types shouldn't be able to extremely well. With all the Psychic types around, the skunk Pokemon stands out as a Poison type immune to them, a trait which most of this type does not possess. It also is one of the best Pursuit trappers in the tier, 2HKOing most Psychic types upon switchout (the main exception is physically defensive Musharna). It also can damage Fairy types with it's Poison type stab attack, and if you want to, you can even run a mixed set with Fire Blast and HP Grass that defeats checks such as Quagsire. Finally, it is a great Defog user if you need it to be, as it's speed is decent (but a bit awkward). Skuntank is great in the current metagame and deserves a rise.
(I may add another nom later but i don't know if i will)
Skuntank for A Rank. Skuntank possesses a good trait of being able to take on types one of it's types shouldn't be able to extremely well. With all the Psychic types around, the skunk Pokemon stands out as a Poison type immune to them, a trait which most of this type does not possess. It also is one of the best Pursuit trappers in the tier, 2HKOing most Psychic types upon switchout (the main exception is physically defensive Musharna). It also can damage Fairy types with it's Poison type stab attack, and if you want to, you can even run a mixed set with Fire Blast and HP Grass that defeats checks such as Quagsire. Finally, it is a great Defog user if you need it to be, as it's speed is decent (but a bit awkward). Skuntank is great in the current metagame and deserves a rise.
(I may add another nom later but i don't know if i will)
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Considering barely any Malamars even run psycho cut (by far, the best and most common set is is Sp. Def w/ Rest/Sleep Talk/Knock Off/Superpower), and Ariados outspeeds it, the worst it can typically do is 0 Atk Malamar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ariados: 130-154 (46.2 - 54.8%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO, which still means Ariados has at least one more switch-in and forces out the Malamar.
Xatu S –> A+ (tl;dr in the end)
Well, I know that Xatu is probably like a god to us alongside Sawk and Klinklang, but… It just isn’t a S-Rank nowadays imo. Don’t get me wrong, I know that Xatu’s capability to check Fight-types and prevent hazards is a god send to a tier like NU, but the way the metagame is developing right now isn’t doing him any good.
First, the cliché argument of the new drops: Shiftry and Skuntank just give Xatu the middle finger (Shiftry has to be aware of bug coverage tho!), while Hitmonchan is a Fight-type that don’t really mind Xatu due to Iron Fist + Ice Punch. Of those, maybe Shiftry is the one that may actually fear Xatu, as the bird can tank a Dark move (IF colbur!) and retaliate with U-Turn or Signal, whith the later having a good chance of OHKOing. "But Ren-chon, Xatu is hella fast. You can just bump his speed!" Yeah, you can, but at the cost of doing even worse against the things you were supposed to check (and a lot of them already has priority, is faster/scarfed or you can't switch in anyway)
Phew, that was a lot of calcs for the same mons, but just showing how much of a problem Xatu has with the new drops. Oh, and remembering that while Colbur is a good option to let you be a one time check to Dark-types, it isn't a definitive one and still doesn't allow you to switch in said Dark-types! Now, speaking about the meta itself, it too isn't doing good to the poor totem: Primeape is becoming more common, and is able to deal with Xatu via Ice Punch/Stone Miss or U-Turning to the Skuntank he's often used with; Rotom-Fan is getting more usage as a offensive check to Fight-types, Sawk is still a problem to Xatu due to Knock Off and maybe Ice Punch; Ice-types are seeing some more usage since Sneasel left the tier; he has problems with some SR Setters like Rhydon, Archeops, Carracosta, offensive Thunderbolt Mesprit, lead Aurorus, Piloswine and, of course, the almighty lead Pinsir. Yes, it can deal with like half of this list depending of coverage, but now comes Xatu main problem: he can't fit all he wants in the same moveset. You'll ALWAYS miss something, be it Thunder Wave, Giga Drain, Heat Wave, you name it (and even Giga isn't a guaranteed KO on Rhydon, Carracosta and lol maybe a 3/4HKO on Regirock?). It still nulifies Ferroseed from using hazards and maybe "checks" Garbodor's (T)Spikes, even though the offensive set of the later isn't an as rare of a sight nowadays. And not really an argument against Xatu but in the current meta, Fight resists that aren't weak to Dark or are bulky enough to tank hits (let's be honest: Xatu isn't really too bulky, it depends way too much on his defensive typing to wall things) like defensive Mesprit.
And I'm just talking about the things that Xatu was supposed to do (bounce back hazards and check Fight-types), I won't even say a word about the things that were already a headache, and are still being used as the tier shift didn't really do anything bad to 'mons that were already hard for him to even switch in like Scyther, Fire-types, Lanturn and others. Well, now just reforcing the moveset argument: people seems to love Xatu by how you can tailor him to fit your team needs in the teambuilder, but it just can't nowadays: you need Giga Drain for SR Setters, you need Thunder Wave for setuppers, you need Heat Wave for Klinklang, you need Bug coverage for the Dark-types... This argument can be used for almost every mon, I know, but the fact that it's so huge on Xatu is a big problem, don't you think?
Oh, and before someone say that his moveset depends on what your team has problem against, let's remember that you can easily take advantage of Xatu with everything it doesn't packs the Super Effective coverage to hit @_@ (maybe not the U-Turn versions, but you understand what I'm trying to say) Well, sorry for the long as hell text, but only with a wall text one can show Xatu's bad points and argue against his supposedly good ones ;_; Also ffs not an argument but the fact that Xatu is 99% of the time poisoned by Poison Jab/Sludge Bomb/Gunk Shot makes me mad.
Don't get me wrong, folks: it can still check a lot of mons specially the new NU waifu Gurdurr, but in my opinion it just isn't as good as it was or people say it is
tl;dr (I don't know how to change spoiler tags, so deal with it n_n)
Well, I know that Xatu is probably like a god to us alongside Sawk and Klinklang, but… It just isn’t a S-Rank nowadays imo. Don’t get me wrong, I know that Xatu’s capability to check Fight-types and prevent hazards is a god send to a tier like NU, but the way the metagame is developing right now isn’t doing him any good.
First, the cliché argument of the new drops: Shiftry and Skuntank just give Xatu the middle finger (Shiftry has to be aware of bug coverage tho!), while Hitmonchan is a Fight-type that don’t really mind Xatu due to Iron Fist + Ice Punch. Of those, maybe Shiftry is the one that may actually fear Xatu, as the bird can tank a Dark move (IF colbur!) and retaliate with U-Turn or Signal, whith the later having a good chance of OHKOing. "But Ren-chon, Xatu is hella fast. You can just bump his speed!" Yeah, you can, but at the cost of doing even worse against the things you were supposed to check (and a lot of them already has priority, is faster/scarfed or you can't switch in anyway)
252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 180 Def Xatu: 234-278 (70.2 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 180 Def Xatu: 257-304 (77.1 - 91.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 180 Def Colbur Berry Xatu: 185-218 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 180 Def Xatu: 244-291 (73.2 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Colbur Berry Xatu: 177-211 (53.1 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 354-421 (106.3 - 126.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
224+ Atk Dread Plate Skuntank Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 180 Def Colbur Berry Xatu: 144-169 (43.2 - 50.7%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO
224+ Atk Dread Plate Skuntank Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 180 Def Xatu: 288-338 (86.4 - 101.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
224+ Atk Dread Plate Skuntank Pursuit vs. 248 HP / 180 Def Colbur Berry Xatu: 72-85 (21.6 - 25.5%) -- 0.5% chance to 4HKO
224+ Atk Dread Plate Skuntank Pursuit vs. 248 HP / 180 Def Xatu: 144-170 (43.2 - 51%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 180 Def Xatu: 257-304 (77.1 - 91.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 180 Def Colbur Berry Xatu: 185-218 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 180 Def Xatu: 244-291 (73.2 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Colbur Berry Xatu: 177-211 (53.1 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 354-421 (106.3 - 126.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
224+ Atk Dread Plate Skuntank Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 180 Def Colbur Berry Xatu: 144-169 (43.2 - 50.7%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO
224+ Atk Dread Plate Skuntank Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 180 Def Xatu: 288-338 (86.4 - 101.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
224+ Atk Dread Plate Skuntank Pursuit vs. 248 HP / 180 Def Colbur Berry Xatu: 72-85 (21.6 - 25.5%) -- 0.5% chance to 4HKO
224+ Atk Dread Plate Skuntank Pursuit vs. 248 HP / 180 Def Xatu: 144-170 (43.2 - 51%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
Phew, that was a lot of calcs for the same mons, but just showing how much of a problem Xatu has with the new drops. Oh, and remembering that while Colbur is a good option to let you be a one time check to Dark-types, it isn't a definitive one and still doesn't allow you to switch in said Dark-types! Now, speaking about the meta itself, it too isn't doing good to the poor totem: Primeape is becoming more common, and is able to deal with Xatu via Ice Punch/Stone Miss or U-Turning to the Skuntank he's often used with; Rotom-Fan is getting more usage as a offensive check to Fight-types, Sawk is still a problem to Xatu due to Knock Off and maybe Ice Punch; Ice-types are seeing some more usage since Sneasel left the tier; he has problems with some SR Setters like Rhydon, Archeops, Carracosta, offensive Thunderbolt Mesprit, lead Aurorus, Piloswine and, of course, the almighty lead Pinsir. Yes, it can deal with like half of this list depending of coverage, but now comes Xatu main problem: he can't fit all he wants in the same moveset. You'll ALWAYS miss something, be it Thunder Wave, Giga Drain, Heat Wave, you name it (and even Giga isn't a guaranteed KO on Rhydon, Carracosta and lol maybe a 3/4HKO on Regirock?). It still nulifies Ferroseed from using hazards and maybe "checks" Garbodor's (T)Spikes, even though the offensive set of the later isn't an as rare of a sight nowadays. And not really an argument against Xatu but in the current meta, Fight resists that aren't weak to Dark or are bulky enough to tank hits (let's be honest: Xatu isn't really too bulky, it depends way too much on his defensive typing to wall things) like defensive Mesprit.
And I'm just talking about the things that Xatu was supposed to do (bounce back hazards and check Fight-types), I won't even say a word about the things that were already a headache, and are still being used as the tier shift didn't really do anything bad to 'mons that were already hard for him to even switch in like Scyther, Fire-types, Lanturn and others. Well, now just reforcing the moveset argument: people seems to love Xatu by how you can tailor him to fit your team needs in the teambuilder, but it just can't nowadays: you need Giga Drain for SR Setters, you need Thunder Wave for setuppers, you need Heat Wave for Klinklang, you need Bug coverage for the Dark-types... This argument can be used for almost every mon, I know, but the fact that it's so huge on Xatu is a big problem, don't you think?
Oh, and before someone say that his moveset depends on what your team has problem against, let's remember that you can easily take advantage of Xatu with everything it doesn't packs the Super Effective coverage to hit @_@ (maybe not the U-Turn versions, but you understand what I'm trying to say) Well, sorry for the long as hell text, but only with a wall text one can show Xatu's bad points and argue against his supposedly good ones ;_; Also ffs not an argument but the fact that Xatu is 99% of the time poisoned by Poison Jab/Sludge Bomb/Gunk Shot makes me mad.
Don't get me wrong, folks: it can still check a lot of mons specially the new NU waifu Gurdurr, but in my opinion it just isn't as good as it was or people say it is
tl;dr (I don't know how to change spoiler tags, so deal with it n_n)
The tier shift and the way the metagame is developing affected Xatu way more than we would like to admit, with Dark-types becoming more common as well as the Skuntank+Fight-type core; NU nowadays has a preference for bulkier Fight resists or ones that aren't weak to Dark, like Rotom-Fan, Pelipper and Poison-types; he still has problem with common SR Setters if not running Giga Drain; his 4mss is unfortunately way too bad (maybe an exaggeration, sorry); depends way too much on his typing to wall things; and still has problem with the same 'mons as he did in the last metas. In general, Xatu is still really good, but not S-Rank ;_;
I don't think Leafeon fits the standard for B rank anymore. Pure Grass typing isn't doing it much favours for an offensive mon outside of resisting ground attacks and it's coverage moves struggle to even break walls like Vileplume, Weezing and Garbodor even if it's managed to get up a Swords Dance. Theirs usually better options such as SD Shiftry or even Jumpluff and Torterra who have better typing or speed. There's also not to mention the increase of flying types such as Scyther, Rotom-F and Vivillon which all make quick work of this thing. Outside of Swords Dance, defensive sets are better off done by Tangela or Vileplume which have more bulk or better typing while baton pass sets face competition from Mawile.
Look elswhere for better hazard control and a wall, it's just gerneally a poor option. It's constantly being worn down by stealth rocks while also taking full damage from spikes and toxic spikes. It was great for being a nice answer for sneasel in the past meta but that's gone now and there's much better spinner options to use such as Claydol, Shiftry and Kabutops etc. While most ghost types are frail or have a weakness to ice, this thing lacks a good stab and so spinblockers don't even care too much and most of them can attack on Avaluggs horrid special defence. To add on, this thing hates status so anything like a gunk shot/ Sludge bomb poison or Will'o just screw this over even more and 28 speed means you'll always be moving last unless it's ferroseed lol. It's makes for nice blanket check to a decent amount of physical orientated mons but that typing and special bulk holds it back from being effective a lot of the time.
I swear this thing is good, it's fantastic offensive stab combination makes it very hard to switch into as it's resisted by almost nothing. Freeze dry smacks other water types and has hydro pump to hit everything else, Ice beam gives you stronger ice stab and has plenty of other options. Water absorb gives you an immunity and it's amazing bulk means it can take repeated hits from neutral attackers. Choice Specs turns it into a solid wallbreaker while it also has the option to run AV/Icicle plate even with ice shard which lets it pick off faster threats. It's still held back by it's slow speed and numerous weaknesses but I believe it's positive traits easily outshine. It works well with teams that can grab momentum and hazard control just got a lot easier too.
Swellow from A- to A+.
Why should it go to A+ you ask, ill answer. It is a intense wallbreaker. Both viabale with special attack and physical attack. Get some guts off and you get a sweeper, have a specs swellow- Go sweep with boomburst. And here are some calculations.
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Vileplume: 160-190 (45.1 - 53.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Muk: 244-288 (58.9 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Regirock: 94-111 (25.8 - 30.4%) -- 3.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
And i approve this message.
Why should it go to A+ you ask, ill answer. It is a intense wallbreaker. Both viabale with special attack and physical attack. Get some guts off and you get a sweeper, have a specs swellow- Go sweep with boomburst. And here are some calculations.
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Vileplume: 160-190 (45.1 - 53.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Muk: 244-288 (58.9 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Regirock: 94-111 (25.8 - 30.4%) -- 3.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
And i approve this message.
I disagree with this nomination personally. I feel like the meta isn't very kind to Swellow with Rhydon (a full counter to both sets) being spammed like crazy.
To add to this, this meta has so many more priority users that frail things like Swellow are constantly at risk of taking huge damage against. The meta brought in 2 powerful Sucker punchers, which you have to play mind games with and let's be honest, Swellow won't win every one because of how frail it is.
Swellow is fine where it is imo, A- is a good descriptor for it as its by no means a metadefining threat like Klinklang which is in A+, its a much smaller scale threat but by no means bad at all.
Leavanny also manhandles Malamar. Offensive Leavanny just OHKO's with X-Scissor as long as it carries a Life Orb, and is even a full counter to Malamar if SR is not up (and a hard check if it is). It can switch into anything and come out on top, except if a Scarfed Knock Off.
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Well, in that case, would you drop Krick down to D as well, and Leavanny to C- because of new defoggers (which by the way don't particularly want to come in on any of the webs setters, leaving them at a disadvantage)? If you see a Malamar on the opposing team, it would be beyond daft to even attempt to set up sticky webs; instead, you would lead with something that matches up well against their team rather than giving them an advantage by letting their sweeper have +1 speed automatically. I'm not sure how you got the notion that it's bad and some proof that it is "a terrible terrible" Pokemon would be appreciated; what exactly does it do or not do that's so bad? It beats most variants of Xatu given you have a bit of luck, which isn't as much as you could say about the other two (Leavanny rarely runs KO, and Krick is too slow to beat Xatu anyways), and it does exactly what it should do as a sticky web setter: set webs and die. In some cases it kills things, too. HOw is that bad?
Kadabra I can somewhat agree with, but at the same time I feel like it is definitely on par viability-wise with other things in B- such as Ursaring, Ninetales and Kecleon. As I stated previously, it IS frail and weak to a lot of things and as such can't come in, but LO is just as viable on Kadabra as it would be on Jynx over Sash as they share many traits, and it's a similar concept of boosting your power to really nice heights. Again, why is it so bad?
- Status