Flawed logic here, scarf is the most threatening set but specs is countered too easily:Typhlosion hes only one threatening set, Scarf Eruption. every other set just isn't threatening enough (Specs is an option but its countered way to easily)
So I want Typhlosion to A+
specs typh is literally one of the hardest hitting sets in the metagame, to the extent that it 3HKOes even a lot of its own counters [most of the stuff that does counter it lack recovery], making it really easy to get past its counters to sweep teams. furthermore, your argument for it needing too much support, you don't even need to remove hazards, because if your opponent brings you into your blaze range, fire blast hits harder than your original eruption. I'm sorry but your logic is incredibly flawed.Malamar to A+/S
there are two types of people in this world. those who think malamar should at least be A+ rank, and those who have not tried the specially defensive Rest Talk set
Seriously, this thing is a MONSTER
it can sweep through teams with ease and has very few counters (Accelgor and eviolite Scyther).
Im gonna go ahead and say going to leave NU eventually due to usage, but until then Chtulhu Jr. can continue to destroy everything which tries to oppose him.
Let me quote the S rank description:
"Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths."
Do any of the categories match Typhlosion?
"Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support"
As rewarding as his sweeps are Typhlosion needs a lot of support. He cant switch in making you need to sacrifice a mon, he needs a clear playground for him to sweep so defog is a must
"Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability"
Typhlosion hes only one threatening set, Scarf Eruption. every other set just isn't threatening enough (Specs is an option but its countered way to easily)
So I want Typhlosion to A+
And S rank needs to be filled with pokemon who do match the description (I might add reasons later)
Hariyama to S
Feraligatr to S
Uxie to S
...cough...Poliwrath, the fabled Malamar and Gatr stopper.Care to explain about the shit that people are using to beat gatr? The only thing i can name that has become popluar lately that beats gatr is ludicolo?
Lilli's a fuckton more popular now. Cacturne, Eggy, Lanturn, Poli, Jynx, Garbodor have become a lot more used from what I've seen.Care to explain about the shit that people are using to beat gatr? The only thing i can name that has become popluar lately that beats gatr is ludicolo?
This is what I disagree with most.Uxie was S-worthy back when the subCM set was incredible, now it's bad because it loses to Malamar if it doesn't run Signal Beam, and Steelix if it does. I've always felt that the Stealth Rock support set is overrated by a lot of people, because while it does have a nice number of support moves available, it has trouble fitting them in one set, since you want rocks, status, u-turn and then probably Psychic so you can actually do damage to things in a pinch. It has awful defensive typing and no offensive presence, meaning it doesn't fit on offensive teams at all, while balance and such would probably rather use Musharna as their bulky psychic since it's a lot more reliable at doing its job and you want your SR setter to double as a normal/flying check a lot of the time. It just doesn't seem to find its place on teams well. Weather support is great and probably the best set for Uxie atm, being the best at enabling one of the tier's strongest playstyles. TrickScarf is pretty fun and good too, though it overlaps a lot with the support set, except it fits much better on offense. So yeah 2 good sets, one of which only fits on a very specific archetype. I really can't see that being S.
Mantine. Ninetales + psychic type. hariyama + seismitoad.Typhlosion fits S incredibly well. It really is not easy to counter since all it takes is 1 or 2 rather easy predictions to muscle past most of its checks, depending on its moveset. You are honestly handcuffed whenever Typhlosion hits the field because you're forced to go into your fire check or risk straight up losing a mon thanks to Typh's absurd power with Specs. Typhlosion, like other great wallbreakers, can really pick its counters and you can build your team around that. Pair that with an amazing speed tier and you have a behemoth of a pokemon that almost rivals the impact Charizard had on the meta in BW2. Though I really am interested to hear what is your way of "countering" Typhlosion.
Yeah honestly I can agree with this. I used to be an advocate for gatr being A+.Gatr is not S because people finally started using shit that beats it easily instead of just complaining. It's fine in A+ for the moment, we'll see what happens after drops.
Agree 100% fren :}Hariyama doesn't fit the definition in any way, it's a very solid mon but honestly it only has 1 relevant set with little deviations and it's pretty easy to wear down.
I think A is the most appropriate rank for Malamar. Malamar does have a number of effective sets (I love sub on this thing), but its main objective is to spam Superpower and accumulate enough boosts to sweep. The first few Superpowers aren't always super powerful enough to break through mons such as Mega Steelix before getting phazed out with Roar, and later mons like Typhlosion can revenge with Specs Fire Blast. It is definitely a threat to take note of when team building, but it is not invincible. The Scarf set, the rest talk set and the Sub set are all effective in their own right, but Malamar can't run all three sets at once, even though that would make it an S rank pokemon.Malamar to A+/S
there are two types of people in this world. those who think malamar should at least be A+ rank, and those who have not tried the specially defensive Rest Talk set
Seriously, this thing is a MONSTER
it can sweep through teams with ease and has very few counters (Accelgor and eviolite Scyther).
Im gonna go ahead and say going to leave NU eventually due to usage, but until then Chtulhu Jr. can continue to destroy everything which tries to oppose him.
Let me quote the S rank description:
"Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths."
Hmmm, with only a 21.5% chance of killing Mantine, safe to say that damage calcs should also be done for the Mantine:252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Mantine: 120-142 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
So you basically have to dedicate 1/3 of your team to handle Typhlosion? That screams S-rank to me.
His calc is to show how stuff doesn't enjoy switching in to typh. Typh would probably just switch out not wanting to risk not knocking it out.Hmmm, with only a 21.5% chance of killing Mantine, safe to say that damage calcs should also be done for the Mantine:
0 SpA Mantine Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Typhlosion: 164-194 (55.2 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That essentially cripples Typhlosion's Eruption, and places it at the point where it can't come back back in that easily if forced out.
And here's a Pokemon that really does deal with Typhlosion quite well in NU: Samurott.
With Rocks: 252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 217-256 (65.3 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Without Rocks: 252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 217-256 (65.3 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Torrent Samurott Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Typhlosion: 289-343 (97.3 - 115.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (Now that's a highly likely chance)
Just giving some additional calcs and my humble opinion.
this is a terrible argument. dedicating something to beat typhlosion means that the pokemon's role is to solely beat typhlosion, which completely false in this case.252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Mantine: 120-142 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
So you basically have to dedicate 1/3 of your team to handle Typhlosion? That screams S-rank to me.
I feel Eggy has actually taken more of a hit in this meta than a bump. The number of faster Pokemon that can revenge Eggy have become more relevant, and thus increased in number. Examples include Signal Beam Psychic-types (especially Xatu), Cacturne, Aurorus, Scyther, Ninetales, Sneasel, etc... It doesn't even check MLix that well Specs Leaf Storm does not even OHKO SpD MLix and Heavy Slam does loads (coming from the same SpD MLix). It still hits like a truck, but it gets threatened out just as easily as it can wreak havoc. Not advocating for a drop given its versatility, but not seeing a rise for this thing either.Exeggutor B+ -> A-
No I don't have an undying love for the plant, it's just very fucking good >.> No switch ins like taking the combination of hp fire, leaf storm and psyshock. Breaks apart balance, checks mega-lix and destroys anything that wants to check it. Deserves to be up there with the big boys in A.
I agree Mush is solid, but just let me bring up its 4MSS, which means it doesn't perform as universally well as it is made out to be. Psychic-type STAB and Moonlight are givens, so Mush only really has two moveslots to work with. Mush can be a wincon with Calm Mind, but can't do so without being total Dark bait (if Heal Bell is chosen) or status bait (if Signal Beam is chosen); oh and CM Mush wants Psyshock as well. The pivot set is cool, but loses to the Psychics it is supposed to check if they run Calm Mind.Musharna A- -> A
Again, i don't have a fetish, it's just the best fighting + psychic check (in one pokemon) in the tier with things like healing wish, reliable recovery, signal beam coverage (so you don't get 6-0'd by malamar), power, versatility, I wasn't even the first person to bring this up since scorp already suggested it . It's a really good pokemon and it's good even with mega-steelix around since it can lure and bp into an offensive pokemon.