Lower Tiers ORAS NU Viability Rankings

[Teddeh]

Pyroar > magmortar > charizard > busken.
If anything I suggest Busken drops to B+ or A-, despite knowing how well it does with speed boost, I hate using it for sheer unreliability and it has competition for physical sweeper with zard.
Zard / pyroar / magmortar all offer an amazing set in special attacker, but pyroar being immune to shadow ball is a huge niche right now whilst being a lot faster than most of the tier is hella nice. However, if when sceptile gets banned, magmortar will be more openly available to check things since lilligant will go back to being number 1 choice for offensive grass type. Zard is simply my third choice due to its need for a lot of team support, but by definition zard falls under S rank as it has multiple extremely viable sets with a huge amount of coverage options that it just leaves all 3 equally viable in some form or another, depending on what your teams needs exclusively.
if anything, I'd suggest Pyroar + mag stay a+ / move to S at some point after sceptile ban, Zard probably to A despite having niche and busken to A- if this is the case. However, I can also see reason why all 4 of those pokemon are A+, since they all carry a viable niche in what they can provide to a team, none being identical, and i think the second the suspect test is over, it may become easier to define where each fire type's ideal place in the VR rank is.

 

[shiloh]

magmortar - A+ / S
pyroar - A+
combusken - A
charizard - A / A-

that would be the order I could see them in:

• magmortar is arguably the best fire type out of the options we have, as it has the combination of great power + coverage that allows it to get past the majority of fire checks in the tier like lanturn / mantine / etc. it also has the ability to boost its speed w/ flame charge and clean up late game is huge. while it does only have one really viable set in AV, i've tested out expert belt wisp to get by things like hariyama and its not as bad as is expected. its definetly the most defining fire type of the tier and its ranking should reflect that.
• pyroar is the next mon due to its combination of power + good dual typing that is very easy to spam, its also the fastest sans speed boost and has the best support movepool w/ things like taunt and wisp. it also fairs better against the big threat that is rotom, only really afraid of the discharge para's.
• combusken is next imo, as the special set is very hard to switch into and it just eats offense alive after a boost or two. even thought it does face competition w/ zard for a physical sweeper the ability to get +3 stats in a turn is a much bigger threat then zards ability to dd or sd and being forced to give up on speed or two attack boosts. also 3 attacks + tect is very hard to switch into, as things like mantine / peli are suddenly 2HKOd by hp electric and the opponent no longer has a reliable check to it.
• while zard was hyped up to be a huge threat, i really haven't been seeing it to be as prominent / as threatening as the other fire types in the tier. trying to do a choiced set with it is hard due to the fact a scarfed mon 4x weak to rocks makes it hard to reliably revenge kill things if rocks are up, and choice specs zard is just done better by pyroar. sd is a scary set, but NU has more than enough counterplay to the point where it isn't as scary as it potentially can be. the fact that its very passive without getting any boosts. it still is a big threat and should be in the As, but i think its the worst out of the 4 big fire type threats in NU.

 

[erisia]

A+ > A/A-: Agree: Combusken can provide a lot of useful team support with its Speed-passing set and be a fairly potent offensive threat with Swords Dance or a special attacking lure set, and neutrality to Stealth Rock is nice, but one thing it generally lacks compared to Magmortar and Pyroar is splashability. Its low stats and forced compromise between power with Life Orb and bulk with Eviolite give it a specific weakness that can be exploited once its set is identified, and the fact that it is generally forced to run Protect to be effective against offense also makes it more manageable by preventing it from doing too much at once. Focus Blast's accuracy is a huge annoyance for the special set and combined with Combusken requiring Fire Blast's power this can make the set somewhat unreliable compared to Pyroar's and Charizard's alternate STAB attacks. Its support value is what makes it probably A worthy as things like Malamar and even Aurorus become super deadly after a Speed boost, and it can win games single-handedly with a good pass at the right time. However, even then it's matchup dependent because the extra speed isn't useful against defensive checks such as Hariyama and Steelix that can wall a lot of things regardless of speed.

A+ > A/A-: Agree: Charizard is quite similar to Scyther in that it can run a lot of different sets, has good enough bulk + Roost to be a good defensive threat in certain contexts, and most importantly has a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock. This means you have to compensate for that in some way with your team, either using a dedicated hazard removal mon or by applying huge amount of pressure to hazard setters, the latter of which can be a pretty inconsistent strategy. Only being able to switch into battle once before being in fodder range is a huge drawback, and while good players can often prevent this situation from occurring, the risk is still there, and its rank should reflect this additional risk. Furthermore, its special set does have competition from Pyroar; although getting past Hariyama is great, Pyroar also has advantages such as outspeeding Mismagius, Hyper Voice bypassing Subs and having more neutral power than Air Slash, and even just the reduced SR weakness.

I'm not sure where exactly these mons should go but I definitely think they should be below A+ due to their considerable weaknesses, despite their obvious strengths.

 

[Raseri]

removed Sceptile

bolts edit: please give the metagame a day or two to settle before making any nominations

 

[Evan.]

it has been a day or perhaps 2, therefore it is time to make nominations !_!

as much as i hate to say it, zard should move down to A solely because it requires that much more team support than the other 3. I still think that it's the best mon in A if it moves down (since being a fire type that dunks on traditional fire checks is amazing, alongside the wisp sd set which provides such a strong offensive and defensive niche for offensive teams) and shouldn't move to A- like some of the others are suggesting.

there's no way that magmortar is S in this metagame at all. it's just a bit too slow, and not powerful enough to actually break teams like you'd think it does from the theorymon. not to mention that it can't really get by the best fire answers like yama and sliggoo (wisp doesnt even /really/ break past yama since alot of them run eq or stone edge now to still hit you super hard). i dont think flame charge is a great cleaner either because a lot of teams right now are running strong priority in order to deal w/ the faster frailer threats in the tier like swellow and (eventually when people realize how good it is) floatzel, which means more often then not it's not going to end a game, and you just gave up a valuable coverage slot. keep it in A+ cause it's still a really good breaker w/ /some/ defensive niche, but i think that's where it belonged and where it always should belong.

float should obviously move up but im probably just preaching to the choir here. it'll probably end up somewhere in the A ranks but for now i think that B+ is a good starter spot for it to see how the meta adapts around a certain other mon (which im gonna discuss in a bit) and such. just to reiterate for anyone that doesnt know, 115 speed + taunt + good strong STAB and coverage moves (Water / Ice / Fighting is amazing) make it a super threatening mon for both offensive and more passive builds alike. also having swift swim which greatly improves any team's matchup against the ladder menace known as rain, is just a valuable asset for teams to have. like I said, start it in B+ and we can see how the meta adapts.

now here's a bit more of a controversial nom, but i think it'd spark some good discussion at least. Swellow is definitely the best mon in A+ rn (sorry lix fans) and i honestly think that it's probably worthy of S rn, but its a little fringe. Specs boomburst just hits so hard (even off its abysmal spatk) that it ends up 2HKOing like every offensive mon in the tier and 3HKOing a lot of defensive mons as well. Combine that with its practically mythical speed tier that makes it so that the only way you're revenging it is by slapping a scarf on smth or spamming priority. not to mention i've been playing around a lot w/ the sub endeavor set that Blast posted and you add just a whole other dimension of being able to dodge sucker punch and do straight work against bulkier teams (which was one of swellow's main struggling points beforehand). Its seeing big usage in stuff like SPL and other big tournaments and really is a meta defining mon rn, and i'd like to see it's place in S rank to reflect that.

if you guys dont like the swellow nom, can we at least talk about moving rotom down from S? it's not nearly as good as it was when it first moved to S and the big metagame threats were stuff like tauros and sawk (mons that it actually beat). the fact that it loses to the best normal in the tier (see above) and the fact that most teams are actually preparing for its wisp hex shenanigans (unlike a couple months ago) means that it just doesn't break balance like it used to, and it's rank should reflect that.

Now i'm not saying that both swellow should move up and rotom should move down, but i'd like to see one or the other happen to more accurately reflect how the current metagame looks.

 

[tmacbalanced]

Electrode C- to C maybe?
With the return of faster threats like Floaztel coming to surface, as well as, Swellow coming to be the next star of NU; I feel like Electrode is a good answer to a lot of these threats. With HP ground for Lanturn that will rise again (as well as Magmortar and Steelix I guess), volt switch for momentum and hitting Floatzel for high damage, and soundproof for Swellow's BoomBurst. Not to mention it hits past base 121 speed tier when modest (379). Swellow is obviously fast BUT Electrode is almost just as fast and can be great for revenge killing fast threats (pokemon like tauros would have to be weakened though). It can also run Taunt for fat threats.
I've seen Electrode in action and I've used it on a few different teams (even rain haha) and it really does put in work sometimes.

 

[etern]

D > Unranked: Honestly, Torkoal is just plain mediocre as both a rock setter and a spinner. It's ridiculously slow, getting outsped by things like Rhydon, Piloswine, and Steelix which is pretty bad for a spinner, and has a terrible matchup against a majority of hazard removers in the tier. Since it has no recovery, it gets pressured and worn down way too fast to be spinning and setting up rocks, making it a huge momentum sap for any team. It has Lava Plume which is a pretty neat move, punishing switch-ins with that potential burn chance, but that's hardly enough to justify being ranked.

C- > D: 9 out of 10 times, Omastar is just a better choice for a suicide lead due to its superior typing, wider range of hazards, better matchup vs other leads, and higher speed. Basically the only thing that would even be keeping Crustle ranked is Custap Sturdy, and its good matchup vs Xatu.

B+ > A-: This one might be a bit controversial, but I think its at least worth a nom. SD Pinsir literally obliterates balance rn, and happens to be one of the most underprepared for mons in the tier. Bug/Ground/Rock coverage is really great, and coupled with a Life Orb and SD, pretty much everything in the tier gets OHKOed or 2HKOed. It has a pretty solid defense stat as well, so it can eat up a couple of priority moves which is really useful for a set-up sweeper. The Banded set is also really cool, breaking apart heaps of teams mid-late game. There's even the Sash MB Rocks set for getting rocks up vs Xatu which is always handy. Granted, it can get revenge killed by lots of faster stuff like Archeops, Tauros, and Pyroar, but by the time the opponent brings one of them in, Pinsir has likely already gotten a k

 

[Shadestep]

ya I guess Zard's best off in the A_ category after all. still a really solid mon, but doesn't fit on every team ever, unlike Steelix or Rotom for example.
also Combusken should definitely not be in A+, it's checked by way too many things to be an effective wallbreakers and you don't have to run a real counter for it as Lanturn, Hariyama, Mesprit etc which are all really common glue-mons on teams check it and will be able to check other stuff too, after dealing with Combusken.

here's a Mon i thought would definitely be A+ or A atleast, but i guess not:

Lanturn A- --> A_/A+
Lanturn is an amazing pivot on balance teams, checking all fire-types pretty well (outside of EQ Magmortar, but that doesn't really have good switchins anyway), and offers good utility in Heal Bell, as well as offering momentum by Volt Switching on things that you'd normally switch into Water-types like Ferroseed, giving teammates free room to do some work. the fact that it is pissweak offensively is covered by Toxic most of the time as it punishes mons that want to stay in on Lanturn to wear it down some more. it's also a check to the bulky grounds in the tier, although it's really risky to switch it in on them. with Rotom being the only S-rank mon in the tier, Lanturn does a pretty good job at stopping Volt Switch, and being a check to it, annoying it with Scald / Toxic so it can't deal with the rest of the team throughout the match.

 

[cyanize]

to B+
This thing is back, and it's out for blood. When Scept was here, Costa was largely overlooked as a smasher because it couldn't outspeed Scept after +2, and the defensive set was 100% Sceptile bait. Now, the only relevant thing it can't outspeed after a boost is Swellow, which can't touch Costa in the first place. The mixed Shell Smash set is very dangerous in every iteration since so few walls who woukd normally take moves from a single spectrum Costa can't stand up to its powerful coverage on both sides. Things such as Weezing, Garbodor, and Steelix can't stomach a Hydro Pump; Lanturn, Mantine/Pelitrash, and specially oriented walls get smashed by Stone Edge; bulky grasses get bodied by Ice Beam. also it can learn focus blast fuck ferro Pair this massive offensive presence with ease of setup due to a nice defensive typing and Solid Rock, and you have a fearsome, reliable and splashable (more so than barb imo) sweeper.

Even on the defensive side, Costa is very solid (haha geddit???). Albeit being rather passive with only Leftovers as recovery, Solid Rock coupled with its great physical defense and (previously mentioned) good defensive typing make it one of the best defensive Rock types in the tier. It stops Normals, Flyings, and other things that rely on EQ/Fighting for coverage quite easily, and can neuter them with Scald or Knock Off, as well as set SR on any free turns it gets from eating hits and forcing switches. However, it has very poor SpDef, which leads to it taking a lot of damage from moves other Rock types can take easily. Even with that flaw, it is a very good defensive mon overall.

wall of calcs

Special Bias Shell Smash
+2 228 SpA Life Orb Carracosta Hydro Pump vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 803-946 (228.1 - 268.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 228 SpA Life Orb Carracosta Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing: 452-532 (135.3 - 159.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 28 Atk Life Orb Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Mantine: 616-725 (184.4 - 217%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 28 Atk Life Orb Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 40 HP / 156 Def Lanturn: 378-446 (94.2 - 111.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO (av dies ofc)
+2 28 Atk Life Orb Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Mantine: 616-725 (184.4 - 217%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 228 SpA Life Orb Carracosta Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vileplume: 400-473 (112.9 - 133.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 228 SpA Life Orb Carracosta Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Torterra: 847-998 (214.9 - 253.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 228 SpA Life Orb Carracosta Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 112 SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 328-387 (112.7 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO get bodied
Defensive
16+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 139-166 (39.4 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
136+ Atk Steelix Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 112-132 (31.8 - 37.5%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Tauros Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 109-131 (30.9 - 37.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Archeops Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 106-126 (30.1 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Samurott Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Carracosta: 147-174 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 166-199 (47.1 - 56.5%) -- 23.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

to A+/S

This barely needs to be explained, but I'm going to support it nonetheless. Tauros is an absolute monster now that it's back to being the (usually) second fastest thing on the field. It's just as hard to prepare for as ever, and getting better with more sets being innovated to heighten it's potential such as Work Up I did it first :[ and Sub. I'm not looking forward to facing this thing.

 

[kay]

Archeops A- ---> A+

This thing has gone back to be really good again with Sceptiles ban and the speed tier dropping back down. Archeops has really found its way back into this meta as one of the best balanced breakers in the tier. With the ability to run mixed coverage such as Earth Power and Focus Blast to hit common flying resists like Steelix, and being able to run moves like Taunt it can really pose a big issues for a lot of balanced/ defensive teams to deal with. And with Rock typing it's also an offensive normal resist which is super handy in the tier right now.

Samurott A+ ---> S

This thing is a monster right now. With Sceptile leaving basically every water type got better and Samurott is no exception. Its mixed wall breaking set is amazingly powerful and the SD sets can just break down team that doesn't have dedicated mons to deal with this. Add torrent +2 aqua jets into the mix and even offensive teams can struggle to bring it down. This ones kinda self explanatory as the reasons it dropped from S aren't here anymore and it's coming back to its old self.

 

[Mistrals]

I'd like to quickly bring up Zebstrika for say, C-/D. With Sceptile gone it's speed tier niche has returned, only being outsped by Swellow (and ninjask/electrode ofc) naturally, but having Overheat over Electrode which is huge since Electrode's weak signal beams and hp water/ground do nothing to things like Vileplume and only like 3hkos Steelix, as well as Zebstrika having a nice immunity to grass or electric. It can also carry a hidden power that hits both Rhydon and Lanturn in one slot (grass) because of overheat.

 

[Evan.]

y'know the more i think about the VR, the more i just think that there really shouldn't be anything in S rank at this stage of our metagame's development. When I look at the tier list right now, it's pretty clear that since the departure of sceptile, we don't have any real metagame-defining mons atm like we've had in the past. like the more I think about my previous swellow nom, the more I disagree with it myself since at this moment in time, i really wouldn't consider it to be the best mon in the metagame right now (not saying that it won't get there in the future, i'm just saying right now as a snapshot). Even some of our old top threats like Samurott, Rotom and Tauros seem alot less threatening due to the fact that we have Steelix, the re-emergence of the Choice Scarf, and just the way that teams are being built right now. I'm still strongly advocating that we move Rotom down from S because it's definitely not the best mon in the tier atm, but I honestly think it'd be better if we just left S blank for now and let the metagame develop for a bit before making any serious noms for mons to take up the mantle as "metagame defining"

 

[yogi]

Okay, I have a weird nom but tbh idc lol.

Unranked > D/C-

So, no this isn't a late April fools joke or something, I think both of these mons have some decent potential in NU. However, only with one specific set though, as any QD or sleep powder set is vastly outclassed by vivillion in every way. Both of these mons have the ability to basically 2HKO most of the tier with specs+tinted lens bug buzz, which is a feat that not many pokemon can brag about. I'm not saying that they're great, but the amount of pressure that they can put on teams is massive depending on what playstyle is being faced. They have similar sets, but both have their own perks; mothim has usable atk and access to air slash, whilst butterfree gets access to sleep powder and has enough spd to generally take a neutral hit badly. I have a feeling this will be massively disagreed, but tbh how do they not deserve a rank next to mons like torkoal, arbok, frillish, etc?

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Butterfree Bug Buzz vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 132-156 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Butterfree Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 134-160 (31.2 - 37.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Butterfree Bug Buzz vs. 40 HP / 216+ SpD Lanturn: 168-198 (41.8 - 49.3%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Those are a few calcs against the specially defensive walls of NU, not accounting for super effective moves which do generally 2HKO.

 

[Realistic Waters]

I personally have to disagree, Mothim and Butterfree's problems lie in there poor defences and low speed. In most situations, it's pretty easy to outspeed and KO with an appropriate move given a large amount of Pokemon do that already. While it's said that they can be a little challenging to switch into, even most offensive Pokemon with moderate bulk are able to live a hit can take it out. Charizard resists Bug Buzz even with Tinted Lens and Air Slash is pretty weak considering its fairly low base power. Kangaskhan lives a Buzz and OHKO's in return too.

Against more balanced and defensive teams, they'll almost always carry a bulky Sp Def Tank / wall such as Mega Audino, Clefairy and Sliggoo for example which Mothim and Butterfree are never going to break due to there only good at best special attack. There's plenty of other stronger wallbrekaers that offer more than these 2. Even something like Hariyama beats them since Fake Out / Bullet Punch and Knock off take it out. Your either locked into Bug Buzz which it tanks or the weaker stab which Yama can still take and eliminate. And on that NU's riddled with plenty of priority attackers which also prey on there low defences.

The problems don't end there unfortunately. Bug/Flying isn't the best typing out there giving it a dozen common weaknesses and most importantly it loses 50% of its health to stealth rock so there something that require a lot of support. I've used Mothim and Butterfree myself and they really disappointed me. I don't think either should be ranked sorry. :/

 

[Adaire]

Klinklang B- ---> C/C+
Steelix isn't leaving the tier anytime soon, so this thing can almost be considered worthless when the most used pokemon in the tier walls it. The only way you can attempt to make klinklang work is by using magnet rise to avoid eq or probopass to trap steelix. The problem with magnet rise is you lose either return or sub and those are essential moves for klinklang, even if it does get a shift gear of, it still isn't that much of a threat unless your opponents entire time is completly weakened or/ void of water types/will-o-wisp users. Probopass isn't a viable option because not only does it add another fightng weakness, you are also running a probopass which is just a awful pokemon outside of trapping steelix. Also the special set sucks.

Omastar A- ---> A
This might be an odd nom, but Omastar is incredibly good in the current meta, boasting a varied movepool, good stats and decent offensive/defensive typing it can be really good. It also offers a wide amount of variability in its sets ranging from specs, to shell smash, to defensive, to lead. Also it's not outclassed by barbaracle since it varies in movepool. The meta is really kind to bulky rock/water shell smashers and omastar isn"t an exception.

Also agree with Cyanize and Kays posts.

 

[erisia]

B- > C+: Disagree: Klinklang's matchup against Steelix is obviously one of its biggest flaws, but remember that over 75% of teams don't use that Pokemon, and with the decline of Quagsire and most Weezing omitting Flamethrower now, I don't think Klinklang has become any worse since its initial drop. Gimmick sets are overrated; just using the standard set with Sub / Shift / Grind / Return alongside a lure for Steelix (or just something like Rotom that outright beats it unless it's Sheer Force Dark Pulse) is still a decent option. There are certainly more consistent sweepers but Klinklang packs some extra defensive utility thanks to all of its resists and good bulk, and I think it has enough of a niche for B-.

Short post but I just wanted to say that I agree with Evan.'s viewpoint on S rank currently being a bit of a weird phenomenon in this metagame. With Sceptile gone nothing really seems to be ultra-defining atm and while Rotom is as good as always I still stand by my viewpoint that it's not particularly defining (people don't build teams specifically to include Rotom checks, like they did with Sceptile checks, as far as I know). I think to be honest we probably could remove S-rank for now and things would be okay, but it might be more useful to simply make the guidelines a little less strict. The A+ tier is very large at the moment and there is some general consensus about certain mons being better by a clear margin (Samurott, for instance), so maybe less difference between the tiers would be beneficial.

 

[Realistic Waters]

I'd like to make a small nomination

Camerupt C+ ---> B-

Particularly I want to talk about it's defensive set. Camerupt acts a an neat Stealth Rocker that offers an Electric immunity and a Will-O-Wisp absorber which can allow it to hard check/counter Rotom and Weezing two extremely popular threats than can be difficult to play around for a lot of teams. No other Rocker can beat them which gives this thing a good niche in this meta. With it being a special defence tank, it has just enough bulk to check most special attackers such as Magmortar, Skunktank and Mismagius for example and retaliating back with it's stabs and spreading burns with Lava Plume. It's left with a free moveslot in the last option and with a good movepool it can run pretty much whatever it wants.

• Toxic - Good for wearing down switch ins
• Roar - Faze out set up sweepers and also works well with spikes stack
• Will-O-Wisp - Guaranteed burn and nice passive damage
• Rock Stabs - Coverage for Mantine / Pelipper / Zard if you feel your team is weak to them
• Protect - Take advantage of leftovers recovery and scout for moves

Thanks to Solid Rock it's able tank super effective hits much better and the fact that it's not completely forced out by defensive pivot lanturn despite the x4 water weakness. Instead it's can fire back off with a strong Earthquake. 100/105 offences and a stab combination which hits almost half the tier super effectively and almost all the rest for neutral damage and stops Camerupt from being passive.

0 SpA Lanturn Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solid Rock Camerupt: 180-216 (52.3 - 62.7%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 156 Def Lanturn: 270-318 (67.3 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Camerupt's able to distinguish it's self from competitors and is put into a favourable position in the current meta. In my experience with it, I found it to be very useful at fulfilling it's job role. It only has 2 weaknesses which can be covered easily and Camel will fit onto most teams. It still has a few issues but that's why im not nomming it any higher. This thing is underappreciated.

other random calcs

252+ SpA Skuntank Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt: 84-100 (24.4 - 29%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Magmortar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt: 121-143 (35.1 - 41.5%) -- 79.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Charizard Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt: 141-166 (40.9 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Garbodor Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 83-98 (24.1 - 28.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Rotom Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt: 93-109 (27 - 31.6%) -- 31.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Mismagius Hex (65 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt: 64-76 (18.6 - 22%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Vileplume Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt: 76-91 (22 - 26.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Quagsire Scald vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Solid Rock Camerupt: 156-189 (45.4 - 55.1%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Shadestep]

I'd like to make another nomination

Malamar A- ---> A
Malamar is such a big threat in the tier and is one of the biggest mons to keep in consideration while teambuilding. Especially mid- to lategame it is such a big threat and has to be responded to immediately. Malamar is also one of the reasons Bulky Psychics carry Signal Beam, but it can get past most of them by outspeeding them and after a boost, killing non-colbur Mesprit for example. Sceptile leaving means even less special attackers that threaten it with strong attacks.
unlike most physical attackers it can get past Garbodor by resting and boosting up it's Atk and Defense even further.

tbh i thought forsure that it was A+ or atleast A, but it seems not. I don't really think Malamar needs much explanation as everybody knows what it does already: just win.

 

[Raseri]

I have a few noms I want to make cause things are getting overinflated again

Rotom from S-> A+

Rotom is still a really good Pokemon, but I wouldn't consider it to even be in the top 5 in NU anymore. It doesn't switch in on many of the top pokemon, and relies on wisphex to be relevant. It's still a top tier balance breaker, but struggles with other playstyles a lot. Really though look at A+ and look at how many beat Rotom. It just isn't as good as it once was and absolutely does not deserve s-rank

Tauros from A+ -> S

Tauros is sooo good right now. The set I run is Rock Climb / Earthquake / Fire Blast / Iron Tail. This set is able to muscle its way through most of the tier, while also being the 3rd fastest relevant mon (Floatzel and Swellow being the others). Funny enough, Rotom is one of the best switch-ins to it, as I believe it avoids the 2HKO from Iron Tail after rocks even without defensive investment. Of course, Tauros can switch up its moves a bit if you need to hit certain threats, like Zen Headbutt for Weezing / Plume, or Rock Slide for nothing lol. But it is such an amazing pokemon rn and I think it should be S

Magmortar from A+ -> A

idk Magmortar just isnt nearly as splashable as it used to be, it still hits really hard and has great coverage, but its speed is awful for an offensive Pokemon so its easily revenge killed or pivoted into. Its low defense makes it Pursuit bait. Weak to all hazards, poor defensive typing etc. The meta is just not as kind to Magmortar right now, and it should finally drop as its no longer the king of the fire types (LONG LIVE PYROAR)

 

[Kiyo]

In regards to Malamar I haven't seen enough high level usage of it to justify A, you said it yourself everyone knows what it does. being extremely predictable isn't always a bad thing, but it definitely works against malamar more than the average Pokemon in my opinion. Also I'm not sure if this is just a personal problem I have with malamar or something people overlook because they sometimes win games with it but, Malamar legitimately lacks early and mid game presence. Whenever I've used Malamar in the past I kinda felt like I was playing down 5v6 for the majority of the game because I didn't want to bring malamar in (mainly because its not a great pivot due to not having unique resistances or solid immediate damage output or utility or u-turn/volt switch) unless I was using it to check a mono attacking psychic (read as barrier musharna) I can't remember the last time I saw someone effectively use a malamar before attempting to sweep with it, and tbh most of its sweeping attempts actually get thwarted imo.

I'd agree with rotom going down, not only because I think people have realized what spell tag hex does finally (so they stop leaving their lanturns and steelixes in) but also because people have realized that Steelix and Lanturn aren't always THAT great. This is strictly biased due to how my playstyle preference affects my building, but I honestly don't consider Steelix or Lanturn for a team that often, and when I do im typically running much more offensive sets than the next guy because I feel their passive af without them. Rotom's biggest niche was breaking balance that relied heavily on Lanturn and Steelix to function, now that team building has kinda gone away the Steelix hype we saw at the beginning of the drops I think Rotom has seen an equal decline in effectiveness. (I realize Steelix is still very common, but I definitely think theres been a decline in usage recently)

Agree with Tauros to S. The thing is just a monster that rips apart both offense and balance, and with work up can break even the beefiest stall. The only reason I could see Tauros not going to S would simply be that it CAN miss. but like 85% of the time it works 100% of the time.

I'd actually disagree with Magmortar dropping, it may not have the godsend defensive typing of some others but its enough for it to check some big time threats in the metagame. Its speed may be a little lackluster but i'd argue it can run enough to do what it needs to (i.e. outrunning samu and ludi tier stuff) without much investment. I don't think being Pursuit bait is a really strong argument considering you do insane amounts of damage to every pursuit user if not outright OHKO them, I could see the argument for being afraid of max speed Skuntank with Poison Jab so you'd want to switch but I think thats not always a favorable situation for the Skuntank user (whereas in most other situations the pursuit user is heavily favored). Not having to worry about EQ coverage from Sceptile is really nice for Magmortar too because now it can act as one of the premier Grass, Ice, and Fire checks in the tier again. While it may take a ton from coverage moves of these powerful pokemon (Jynx, Lilligant, Aurorus, etc.) it definitely makes up for it in power to break teams with insane coverage and a base 125 special attack stat. All in all I think Magmortar is a solid glue Pokemon for Balance and Offense and should be finding its way onto more teams soon with the rise in Lilligant and Jynx usage, although Charizard (and to a similar extent Pyroar) definitely makes it harder to call a standalone fire check I suppose.

 

[MaroGod]

Supporting the Pinsir nomination

The amount of pressure Pinsir puts on teams at the moment is staggering no matter the playstyle Pinsir is generally able to pick something off or straight break entire teams apart (usually balance occasional bulky-offense) the slight set diversity allows Pinsir that touch of unpredictability and the combination of MB EQ to force even less switch ins or Moxie to straight Clean late-game is pretty great. While there are those faster threats even they can be timid in case Pinsir is carrying the odd QA which at +2 (with the optional adamant nature) has the ability to OHKO such threats like Swellow or Pyroar after SR damage while certainly less threatening then Mold Breaker+EQ imo it allows Pinsir to get around certain would be checks and further threaten hyper-offense. Simply put a solid pokemon

Grumpig to B
Grumpig personally i have seen to be quite the splashable little psychic type as of late thanks to its vast movepool and access to Thick Fat allowing to be a top offensive or defensive check to the vast amount of special threats NU is filled with which Grumpig has shown to stop a great majority with its AV and SpD wall set respectively and even taking advantage of them with an offensive Calm Mind set and spread status with the previously mentioned SpD wall set or Stallbreaker.

Grumpig just has so many roles its able to pull off and has been great in this meta espically with the increase of Fire Types/Ice Types and fast special attackers such as Floatzel that have a greater presense as of the Sceptile ban.

 

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

Can Sliggoo drop a rank? The main reason it was being used was for checking Sceptile and with that gone, it's lost that niche. It is still a good special wall but I don't think there's a reason to use it over something like Hariyama or Mantine now.

 

[ryan]

(rotom doesnt deserve a+ either buttholes)

 

[Wandering Wobbuffet]

Ok I don't post on the VRs much but I have a nom I want to make since I've been playing a bit on NU the past couple of days

Primeape to B+/A-
This guy is severely underrated if you ask me. It's got power especially with a choice band, good STAB, and pretty decent coverage as is expected with fighting types. Sure it is lacking knock off but if you really want dark coverage it always get night slash. On top of that a fighting type with u turn is really nice being able to come in on things it pressures since fighting is such a fantastic offensive type and then pivot out gaining momentum. On top of that it faced A LOT of competition from sawk as a fast fighting type but now that sawk is gone it became much more worth considering on a team. On top of that it has a cool option with encore to lock mega audino's and musharna's who think they can just calm mind and then 3HKO audino with black belt boosted CC or pivot out into something else. It's speed tier might not be the best but it's better then sawk's was anyways outspeeding threats such as vivillion, lilligant, and rotom-f as well as speed tying with mons such as jynx and xatu being able to u turn or stone edge both respectably. Another cool option it has is scarf which although it's analysis says otherwise is a nice revenge killer/momentum gainer with a decent attack stat and STAB close combat being able to threaten a lot of mons such as tauros and swellow which would otherwise outspeed and kill it.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Primeape is a lot better now that Sawk's been banned, since it lost its biggest rival. I'd say B+ personally.

Also, I think Samurott should move back up to S personally. Its Swords Dance set is still very good (better bulk and superior defensive typing give it a niche over Kabutops), and there's also the surprise factor that comes with it - players expecting the physical set might switch in Weezing and get wrecked by Hydro Pump. And I don't think Rotom should be S Rank - it's a solid mon, but it's not that good. It's fragile, not that fast, and not that powerful. Its Hex set is still very good, but I think Rotom is A/A+ material.