Resource ORAS OU Metagame Discussion

[Seth_]

I said consistent damage, Psyshock doesn't have a chance to miss. You also don't have Multiscale so a Iron Tail miss allow Clefable to do a good amount of damage.



There would be much better lures than of that matter of Dragonite. Gimmicks turn out to be really lackluster and just a waste of a slot on a team.

Martin. really sums up why that set wouldn't be as effective as you think.

Beside all those thing not worth arguing (like oppirtunit of using iron head with minimu attack investment) I'm using this set and I have succes with it.

It doesen't get like 5 kills but it does what it supposed to do: set up Mega Gyarados sweep by luring and weakening mgyra's counters.

 

[Halcyon.]

So I've noticed that a TON of teams are following a common building pattern. It seems like a very solid teamstyle has evolved where you can get a team that will serve you pretty perfectly if you follow these guidelines: start with a Keldeo, Latios, and Landorus-t core. From there, the next two slots should contain any combination of Steel type and Mega. The last slot is purely filler depending on what you chose for the other two slots/what you think you're weak to.

I personally have built a lot of teams around this concept, and all the teams end up extremely solid. An example is something like Keldeo/Landorus/Latios/Ferrothorn/Diancie/Tornadus which I literally just made up on the spot and I'm sure would end up being a pretty solid team. Or there's the team I posted in the Sample Teams thread that had Keldeo/Latios/Landorus/Volcanion/Scizor/Ttar It's so easy to build an easy team around those three Pokemon, and I feel like a lot of people do just that.

Thoughts on this? Threats to this style? I would say Overloading Lando-T with stuff like Zard+Exca or really strong Fairies like Gard and Diancie could pose a threat depending on the last few slots. But I think it's interesting just how solid and common these types of teams are.

 

[Seth_]

Keldeo, lando-t, lati.

All bluder's favourite mons. ;)

Well what do you expect, you throw bunch of OP mons (of course "op" ) and you get solid team. No wonders why all of them are A+ in viability ranking. They are just most splashable mons in oras ou. They just check so much things in just one slot that is hard to not use it.

And steel type is just mandatory right now. It is fari, dragon and psychic resist, stabs of very scary mons like diance, lati and alakazam.

 

[bludz]

Well those are all really solid glue mons that cover different things. I think the issue with those builds tend to be pretty variable, but often individual members will get overloaded. For example these teams may not carry another Keld check, or only have 1 Gard check (hello Wisp). In general I find these builds will be weak to Thundurus, Mega Diancie, or bulky Waters, you also have to be careful about fitting a stallbreaker or two without compromising your matchup against offense.

Usually a decent starting point but yeah careful for Thundurus, Latios is a completely garbage check for it.

 

[blank]

i just think those builds are insanely boring... whenever i come up with something that has like latios / keld / landorus-t / mega scizor (hyper offense) or mega latias / rotom-w / jirachi / w.e (bulky offense), it ends up getting scrapped :v. on top of being boring, like bludz said, these types of builds with formulaic backbones are usually torn apart by the same things.

it looks good on paper, but in practice, people have answers to all those mons... or at least they should lol.

 

[AM]

Echoing off the two monkeys above me and somewhat in a response to halcyons points those builds are almost always susceptible to meg scizor, which is why a total focus on using those archetypes can be a bit risky. They are ok as a basic foundation obviously but the linearity sometimes ironically, provide you less breathing room since everything is kind of checking stuff but only shortly. they also play the same ways to as in you can telegraph exactly what will happen turn by turn and sometimes when you are on the end of using these teams it sucks.

 

[Martin]

I'm gonna talk about the other Lati twin a bit. This is not at all motivated by the current discussion in the thread and more just because I am sick and tired of seeing some of the arguments that people use for why it's bad. Feel free to contradict anything I say I'm not gonna bother arguing with it on the basis that arguing with people will lead to me either having to argue against someone who is about as stubborn be a brick wall or me making myself look like a mental defect by trying to argue against a valid point.

I get a lot of what people say about Latias; Latios is generally better, and in a meta such as this one it is preferable to have slightly better firepower (slightly is probably an understatement in the case of 72 HP or 152 HP Latias variants) as opposed to slightly better bulk. That being said, I've used it recently and honestly it has been working out really well given how I play; its bulk allows it to more consistently check stuff like Keldeo, Modest Specs Volcanion and Thundurus--the latter of which is going mixed more nowadays from my experience,meaning the ability to take two KOffs is extremely useful in the early game when Thundy is at its most threatening. People say that Defogless Latias is pointless and bad and then rat on it missing Roost because they are insistent that HW is the only reason to use it and they want to use their two analysis attacks, but quite frankly this is all extremely misleading and doesn't accurately represent why you would use Latias as opposed to Latios.

First of all, non-Defog Latias isn't bad. Idk where this misconception comes from, but I've seen people assume that it's pointless using over Latios without Defog without even considering the other things that Latias brings to the table. Not only this, but by forgoing Defog Latias opens up it's movepool so much and it just generally succeeds a lot without it. By forgoing Defog, you are no longer limited to three moveslots, and this allows you to run both Healing Wish and Roost without sacrificing your two-move coverage. This means that you can continue to check Keldeo and Volcanion everything else you check throughout the match (which you can't do without Roost; hint: Roostless Latias is a worse Latios no matter how you look at it; having Healing Wish and higher bulk doesn't make any difference if you can only check the stuff you want to check once or twice in the match) while also being able to support the sweepers on the archetype that Latias fits on best (offense). Also consider that it pairs extremely well with Mega Diancie--who deters hazards with its very existence--and a lot of things which aren't actually particulary hazard weak, so being able to use it for its attributes other than its Defogging ability is really useful in the long run.

In addition to this, if you are really desparate to use it as a Defogger it is fine to sacrifice HWish or one of your attacks to do so. As much as I rat on about how Defog is a pretty limiting factor when used on Latias, it doesn't change the fact is that it is a v. good user of the move--especially considering that it pairs well with 'mons like Talonflame and Charizard which mandate consistent hazard control. Having a Spikes immunity and a SR neutrality on your Defogger is huge (kinda evidenced by Latios generally being considered to be the best Defog user), and the utility that hazard removal brings to the table in a moderately Spikes-oriented meta such as this makes it a very valid option. It is not a worse Latios with Roost+Defog+2 attacks as it functions slightly differently due to its bulk (I know it may come as a shock to a lot of players, but HWish isn't it's only niche *gasp*); it is argubly a better mono-attacker than Latios is due to the additional bulk allowing it to not be as heavily set back by the lack of coverage (Draco/Psychic (Psyshock is bad on this set)+Roost+Defog+HWish is a perfectly viable set; it's possibly my favorite set to use on darkspam due to how insanely useful the role compression of Defog+HWish is for such teams (ftr, Latias is better than Latios on these teams imo)). The flexibility that this freedom of moveslots provides is also really neat because it allows for it to be splashed onto offense pretty easily, and if it happens to lack a mega partner it is v. easy to swap out its Life Orb for a Latiasite and run a max/max spread to fill the same role even more consistently (v. slight drop in power over 72 HP+LO, very slightly bigger bulk gain over 72 HP, KOff "neutrality" and lack of LO recoil help hugely)

Reading back over this post, I guess the reason why I made it is less to promote Latias as a Pokémon and more to get people to stop using dumb reasoning for calling Latias bad. I understand its flaws and admit that--yes--it does have a case of 4mss in the role of a Defogger. It wants to use Roost, HWish, Draco, Psychic, HP Fire, HP Fighting, Earthquake, TBolt/Thunder and whatever the fuck else Latias runs nowadays all at the same time but can't due to Defog taking up a moveslot and only allowing three of those to be run. The point that I wanted to get across here was more just that people make this assumption about sets without Defog and I'm bored of reading people saying it sucks despite Defogless probably being its best set.

 

[Eclipse]

Piggybacking off of that just a bit, I have found Latias to be far more consistent on my teams than Latios as of late, not that it's better than Latios, as Latios' main strength is its immense power along with the support that it provides for teams, as Latias does lack a bit in the power department. But outside of that, from just playing with it a ton more as of late, it just feels like a more consistent check to the stuff that its actually supposed to check, and the added benefit of Healing Wish does give it that extra support value to its team. In my opinion, Healing Wish + Roost + 2 Attacks is its best set in the meta right now, as Draco + Psychic, Draco + Surf, or Draco + Tbolt are all valuable coverage options depending on what your team needs. Or even a simple Roost + 3 Attacks works well, given that some players don't really expect the extra coverage options such as HP Fire on Latias and are more willing to throw out their M-Scizor out against it, for example. And Latias' attacks still hurt pretty bad given how much STAB Draco still hits along with its strong coverage options.

So while Latios is still the better option overall, Latias is a better choice if your team needs more consistent checks to Keldeo/Volcanion while still providing phenomenal support in the form of Healing Wish and its great defensive/offensive utility; it's able to have more breathing room than Latios in situations where Latios feels overwhelmed in checking stuff due to not having as great of bulk as Latias (the extra bulk really does make quite a difference, despite what others might say). Especially since Band Tar is so common right now which spells doom for both Latis regardless, it's nice that Latias can at least Healing Wish and bring in a good T-Tar check (such as Band Terrakion, meaning you can play far more aggressively with it for example) at 100% wheras Latios just has to take it and die anyway without being able to do much back, it just feels more worthwhile to use Latias right now. it's just very underappreciated after getting shit on by a number of people a little while back, but it's still a great threat and its advantages over Latios really give it a clear role in the meta right now.

 

[Martin]

Also pls don't run 72 HP Latias, it isn't reliably checking Thundurus in the meta right now, and never really did do considering that god-awful spread does nothing 84% of the time when rocks are up even against non-Knock Off Thund. I don't understand how that even became standard, you should've always had a better check to Thund anyway.

The spread is good because there are a few other miscellanious things that it helps with outside of Thundy while also helping it differentiate itself a little more from Latios than the max SpA spread does. Its just that the spread happens to take that hit while also hitting a Life Orb number, and as such it just kinda stuck. For what it's worth a max SpA/Spe variant is listed in set details on the analysis for basically the reason that you listed, and in the great scheme of things I'm not particularly keen on generalising that either is particularly better than the other on the basis that you choose the spread based entirely on the needs of your team and whether it appreciates the slight bulk increase or the slight power increase more.

 

[Thatwackycruton]

So I've noticed that a TON of teams are following a common building pattern. It seems like a very solid teamstyle has evolved where you can get a team that will serve you pretty perfectly if you follow these guidelines: start with a Keldeo, Latios, and Landorus-t core. From there, the next two slots should contain any combination of Steel type and Mega. The last slot is purely filler depending on what you chose for the other two slots/what you think you're weak to.

I personally have built a lot of teams around this concept, and all the teams end up extremely solid. An example is something like Keldeo/Landorus/Latios/Ferrothorn/Diancie/Tornadus which I literally just made up on the spot and I'm sure would end up being a pretty solid team. Or there's the team I posted in the Sample Teams thread that had Keldeo/Latios/Landorus/Volcanion/Scizor/Ttar It's so easy to build an easy team around those three Pokemon, and I feel like a lot of people do just that.

Thoughts on this? Threats to this style? I would say Overloading Lando-T with stuff like Zard+Exca or really strong Fairies like Gard and Diancie could pose a threat depending on the last few slots. But I think it's interesting just how solid and common these types of teams are.

I can definitely second this. However, if we're looking at direct threats to the playstyle, I say that Stall takes the cake as long as the selected mega isn't something like Gardevoir or Heracross. It's kinda clicking now that I really think about it, how so many people have just easily dropped stall teams on the ladder and shot right up it- because while Lando/Latios/Keldeo certainly has enough juice to squash most balance builds, breaking full stall is a very tall task for it. While Specs Keldeo and a potentially swords dance Lando-T aren't exactly optimal opponents for full stall to face, they can usually handle them okay with Amoongus/Skarmory, respectively. I'm not saying its impossible for that build to beat full by any stretch, but it's almost always the kind of team that stall is looking to take advantage of on the ladder. It also tends to get battered down by sand quickly, depending on what the last mon is. I'm definitely not bashing this playstyle as it still trashes a bunch of balance and offense squads, but I feel that the rise of this style of team has something to do with the high reliability of stall lately.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

So I've noticed that a TON of teams are following a common building pattern. It seems like a very solid teamstyle has evolved where you can get a team that will serve you pretty perfectly if you follow these guidelines: start with a Keldeo, Latios, and Landorus-t core. From there, the next two slots should contain any combination of Steel type and Mega. The last slot is purely filler depending on what you chose for the other two slots/what you think you're weak to.

I'm a bit late to the party, but who cares! ^_^

I've noticed the same thing, not so much when starting a team, but definitely when trying to fill one out. This past week, my boss has been on vacation and work has been slow, so in my downtime I've tried building a team or two for the heck of it (albeit with little intention of actually using them, lol). I've had to consciously avoid slapping Keldeo, Latios, and Landorus-T (and to a lesser extent, things like Clefable and Tornadus-T) onto all of these teams and being done with it. It's so tempting because each one of them does so much for a team in one slot that it's hard not to use them, but you have to be careful about it. Like others said before me, running these sorts of standard cores can be a problem since everyone should be 100% prepared for each of those Pokemon, leading to similar weaknesses.
Plus, if you ask me, it's pretty boring. I can just as easily build a slightly different version of a bog standard balance/bulky offense team (whatever the difference is supposed to be, haha), but when a million other people have already been there and done that, where's the fun in it?

With regards to the Latias discussion, I agree that Latias gets way too undervalued and this "Latias is only viable with Healing Wish stuff" has never made sense to me. The way I see it, if you need the bulk you go with Latias, and if not you go with Latios. I've been saying this for years now lol, but oh well. When you've been doing this as long as I have, you tend to see the same patterns repeat themselves over and over.

As for 72 HP Latias, I view it the same way I view Latias as a whole. Do you need that extra bulk for something? Then run it. If not, don't. I know this community has kinda gotten to the point where everything is black and white and something is usually either great or terrible, but in reality there are so many more tweaks and combinations that can see legitimate use on certain teams but get dismissed by people just because they aren't the flavor of the month. But maybe I just think that way because I started out as a DPPt player, and back then we were generally a lot more open to more niche sets (which is why we have like 10 sets on Jirachi's DPPt analysis lol).

 

[Take Azelfie]

Gonna try to throw this in a different direction but I have been having a really fun time using MegaGross + Flamethrower CM Clef. Since TWave has just been accepted as standard and is more common I have been using Flamethrower to lure in Steels that trouble both Clef and Metagross like Skarm and Scizor. I also have defensive RoarCune on both of my builds that used this to stop set up sweepers and what not and check Chars. One of my go to Balance archetypes recently.

 

[Celticpride]

I deleted about 10 posts that started arguing about hyper optimization or w/e that then transitioned into basically insults. If everybody can just cool down that would be great. Otherwise infractions are coming soon. You all know if this is directed at you or not but some of you are really on thin ice now. I'm sure I deleted some lovely and meaningful content in the 10 posts or so but I'm not going to sort through and mod edit out all the crap. Martin's post is where I'm going to call that discussion dead. (PS the whole AM is a forum cancer thing is getting a little old considering that first started boiling up in October ffs and not everything the guy posts is a rude and condescending post)

 

[The Goomy]

I know this is completely out of left field, but am I the only one that thinks the metagame would be much more fun if there were no trapping moves or abilities?

It seems like every team is based around a trapper + something that abuses things being trapped.

FFS even stall is like, "ttar and shit are hard to deal with, I guess I should just use Duggy! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"

It's honestly kind of ridiculous how much it limits your plays because you can't really prevent yourself from getting trapped in a lot of scenarios without sacking something else.

Just food for thought.

 

[Ramses]

Speaking of teambuilding being very linear, which I whole-heartedly agree with, here are a few underused things I've recently toyed with and are actually really fun / great to use.

Hawlucha @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance
- Substitute

Hawlucha is lowkey cool and incredibly fun to use, although a bit difficult to utilize properly. It's more of a threat you have to build around rather than slap onto a team. There are quite a few trends that go against it which mandate substantial support for it such as the shift to bulky offense rather than offensive teams. Even with an SD, base 92 Attack only gets you so far so things like Clefable and Landorus-T are big obstacles for it that are unfortunately extremely common.

Scolipede @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake / Aqua Tail
- Swords Dance

I've always thought Scolipede was really good, just underrated. Nonetheless, i still think it's a pretty cool with a nice STAB combo. The metagame is actually pretty favorable for it though, it's checks are range from Landorus-T, Garchomp, and other situational checks that depend on its moveset. The Sword Dance variant is the best variant imo since the Spikes set is done better by other things and TSpikes are pretty bad in the current metagame and honestly it's pretty terrifying to face after a boost + Speed Boost, but priority and its fragility hold it back a ton. I paired it up with the usual VolTurn backbone to supplement it and help with its flaws. Earthquake breaks past Heatran and other Steel-types without relying on Megahorn, Aqua Tail on the other hand weakens Landorus-T and maintains similar coverage to Earthquake.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock

Specially Defensive Jirachi is a pretty good glue for more bulky teams seeking to make more use out of Jirachi rather than slapping Choice Scarf on it and calling it a day. One big pro of using this set is the fact that its increased bulk allows it to function as a better check to things like Mega Diancie and Gardevoir. A more offensive spread of 252 HP / 160 Atk / 96 Spe could actually be used over the specially defensive spread to maintain consistent offensive presence and be somewhat bulky, but i find the posted spread to function much better since it does the role more consistently. The only issue i have with this specific set is the fact that Heatran is usually better at this role since it at least keeps Mega Scizor at bay much better and is much less passive even with a specially defensive set due to Taunt, Lava Plume, Magma Storm, etc. However Jirachi has a niche in U-turn and has access to Wish to function as a long term setter. Rotom-W is an amazing partner for this set as well. This is definitely one of the more underutilized sets that I like using.

 

[Take Azelfie]

I'm not even sure if fun is the right word. Maybe it would open up a hole for lures to try to compensate for trapping. But I do get what you mean with trapping + thing that abuses it, you can see this often with Specs Keldeo + Scarf Tar getting rid of Lati@s. Trapping is pretty limiting but that is why its popular. Most people would prefer to go with the fullproof plan than a route that requires perfection.

 

[MANNAT]

Speaking of teambuilding frameworks, one that I've found to be incredibly effective is Lando-T+Rotom-W+Mega Wallbreaker. The basic premise of this framework is with landot and rotom pivoting around and gaining momentum so that the mega wallbreaker that they are paired up with can be put in a position to succeed. After starting with landot+rotom, you really want to get checks to bisharp, ways to help with fast elecs, and a lati switch in pretty soon after so that you don't have issues with them in the long run.

One mon that I thing does a pretty solid job compressing these roles into one mon is fast wisp heatran, it can cripple bisharp with wisp or just ohko it with fire STAB, switch into the latis and check them pretty well, but it has to have toxic or magma storm+taunt to acomplish this effectively(i pmuch never use trans without these moves these days, but thats still important since roost is as common as ever on the lati twins), and it can check electrics ok, but it still needs some support.
Tran can run rocks and allow lando to run scarf and potentially be paired up with a lati twin to be pretty well covered vs electrics if you're into that.

Additionally, these builds tend to be a tad weak to weavile and can become over reliant on your mega to check it in the long run if you don't add on Keldeo since rotom isn't exactly the best weavile check in the game. Also, if the mega wallbreaker that you end up choosing is something like diancie or megagross that isn't amazing vs stall, then the build often has to shove stallbreakers at the end of the build that you may not want to for the sake of not having a shitty stall matchup that requires you to make really good doubles and predictions to win. The main issue that I find with these builds is that depending on the mega chosen, they can end up becoming quite linear pretty quickly and don't offer the builder as much freedom with the build as they would like.

I just wanted to share this random blurb with you guys that I was thinking about on the car ride back from Chicago lol.

Side Note: Trapping is retarded and should be removed from the game.

 

[Ajwf]

Alright so this isn't on optimization at all but really an archtype that just wasn't ever touched in ORAS. I want to talk about Bulky Offense in a rain variant, something I touched on when I was dealing with the last research topic for tentacruel.

So basically, the rain offense that we see resurface every few meta shifts or so is nearly EXACTLY the same. Toed, Kabutops, Kingdra, torn-t (mamo in super early variants) and then pick from: ferro/scizor/steel and pick one electric/dragon. The ONLY changes is Aegi and MMaw aren't available to be on rain anymore. But rain actually gained Swampert-M in ORAS, who has been underutilized to completely ignored in context of rain.

So instead of ignoring him, this style basically HINGES on Swampert-M (and Toed, obviously). The style is roughly what I described in the research thread: You have huge ebbs and flow in power, same as a hyper offense rain. However, you have bulk and can sustain this constant ebbing and flowing for much longer while maintaining roughly the same power. So Chillarmy and I have used this a bit (he's gonna say something on this later) and while we certainly haven't optimized this (or even really scratched into it), we wanted to talk about the insane strengths we've found here.

For reference, we have three teams thus far. I use the one mentioned in the link above. Chill uses these:
http://hastebin.com/ibopilifex.md This is a fairly standard version and the one I'll use more for reference.
http://hastebin.com/rujogurige.md This is actually a balance team with a sweeper Seismitoad. Ask him how it works, I've not seen him use this version.

As far as we can tell, the archtype is something along the lines of Politoed + Ground/Water Swift Swimmer (Pert/Toad) + Bulky Spdef Dragon (Draglae, Goodra, M-Latias) + Ground Resist/Immune Physical wall + Water w/elec or grass neutral typing + Dragon Catch Pivot.

Bulky Spdef Dragons we've used/built in with: Goodra (like S rank for this style), M-Latias, M-Ampharos, Draglae (Chill mentioned it since it takes Keldeo without losing a mega slot for it).

Ground Resist/Immune Physical walls: Skarmory, Tangrowth, Celebi (less good, but a hazard catch-all).

Water+Subtype Grass|Elec resist: Rotom-W, Tentacruel. Ludiocolo, Lanturn (volt absorb) also probably work here. We're not really sure why we've navigated to a third water every time yet, so we're cautiously guessing this might be a "Keldeo/talonflame block" for whatever you've missed earlier. Realistically, it MIGHT be a BD/CB azumarill check (depending on preceding mons), which does change what this slot means.

Dragon Catch Pivot: Clefable, Doublade are the two we've used. Jirachi was used earlier and works well on rain, but you need to make sure you have Medi/Hera covered first. Basically, this slot is to make sure your dragon does the job walling special stuff, so primary focus here is to absolutely blow up latios and then hopefully take gard after.

Outside the obvious (Pert/Toad +Poli) part, we're absolutely certain about Spdef Dragons and Dragon special catches. Spdef dragons seem to work really well with this team simply because they catch electric and grass both in stride and most have some answer to the genies. They're also naturally very good vs volcanion, who is annoying due to his burn and water absorb vs swampert. Yeah you kill easily but he's still more pain than it's worth and otherwise you'd lack the defensive switches for a rain boosted specs steam eruption. The dragons are also important in that their diverse movepool forces your opponent into a lot of switches.

Under rain, very little outspeeds Swampert-M, so getting in free means you strike first almost always. (Choice scarf 95 positive speed and up, or something with >150 Speed max positive nature). Basically, scarf keldeo, Jirachi are about the only common speed demons outspeeding an adamant max speed swampert. Chill also runs a bulkier, slower spread, but this is the upper limit of speed. Defensively, Swampert has been bothered by ferrothorn, rotom-w and bro. He can't beat Tangrowth, but Tangrowth doesn't appreciate ice punch too terribly much. So normally, the dragons will be able to hit these for neutral or SE damage (rotom is generally the one we hit for neutral ,since rain boosted waterfall still chunks a fair bit).

The power of Pert (ignoring PuP sets since we've been more focused at spamming waterfall and boosts = unfair amirite):

252+ Atk Mega Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Rain: 136-162 (40.7 - 48.5%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Mega Sableye in Rain: 180-213 (59.2 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Mega Venusaur: 141-166 (38.8 - 45.7%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Latios: 240-284 (80.2 - 94.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

And he's a bit bulky (this is minimum, since you're so fast you can scale back speed for HP bulk):

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Swampert: 255-302 (74.7 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 153-181 (44.8 - 53%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 235-277 (68.9 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 159-187 (46.6 - 54.8%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-385780832

In closing, Rain in particular gets strong when EQ meta is around, but normally the rain meta is a bit hyper offense focused and ignoring one of the most dangerous rain mons available to OU. In fact, most of the mons we use here would probably be banned if rain was permanent, so the basis is to be absolutely unstoppable while the rain persists. It's bulky offense with rain, neither Chill nor I are experts in this style. Since we've been working on it for at most a week, we're not sure how particularly strong the style is. However when we've been using it, it has felt absolutely ridiculous (you literally have a wallbreaker that outspeeds most sweepers). What we're hoping is to find some people who actually know what the fuck they're doing when they build offensive oriented teams and help confirm/deny/research this.

Chill didn't believe me when I said this style felt absolutely broken until we played a few matches so I understand why people would question this. I'd expect similar skepticism, given we've been in ORAS for over a year and this hasn't been used much (if at all). Until I started working with it last week, I was pretty sure it'd be garbage. It might be the meta, but we'd still like a few other testers and opinions.

 

[MANNAT]

Ok so I've been working with this "rain bulky offense" style for a bit and I just want to share a few thoughts about issues that seem to come up for the style as a whole.

Issues
- You're forced to run rocks on pert most of the time
- Too much pressure on Spdef Dragon Slot as a water check (I use Goodra here 90% of the time)
- Issues against ferrothorn hazard stack since there's not as many opportunities to get rid of hazards as you would like and gets up hazards vs u really easily

So far, I've found a potential solution to the first two issues that I've found with the playstyle, but my solution for the last one is just to stick coverage moves for ferro on everything lmao. I recommend replacing the third water slot with grass/elec check that sets rocks. Celebi in particular is valuable here since it resists elec and grass types while providing another water check to take pressure off of goodra, and it can run rocks to free up a slot on pert for pup, which is really handy for busting through normal pert checks like weakened grass types (one that comes to mind is mvenu). Also, Celebi can run twave support so that pert can clean up outside of rain, baton pass to help lure ttar and pressure it, or even hw so that you can get 2 swamperts in rain.

Edit: If anyone wants to help me, AJ, and Chillarmy develop this playstyle more, please hit us up on showdown since it's still in development.

 

[leland527]

Do you guys believe there is a legitimate way to use Mega Altaria successfully in the current metagame?

I have really struggled with it and any help you guys could give me would be much appreciated :)

 

[BIG G CHOPPA]

Do you guys believe there is a legitimate way to use Mega Altaria successfully in the current metagame?

I have really struggled with it and any help you guys could give me would be much appreciated :)

The best way to make it somewhat decent would most likely be with magnezone as it can trap and dispose of annoying steels to mega altaria, primarily being ferrothorn, skarmory and mega scizor. Making mega altaria capable of sweeping defensive teams more easier as they have been removed. Magnezone in addition is an effective pivot. Mega altaria has some usable bulk too which is nice as it isn't dying to every attack. Still threatening if you manage to get rid of the potential threats / counters they have as you can sweep their team without much difficulty. Magnezone has good defensive and offensive synergy with mega altaria so yea that's nice. You could add weavile too as it provides pursuit support as well as threatening bulky grounds such as landorus therian, who is very common in this current meta. Magnezone checks fairy types who can take out mega altaria and weavile (bye bye azumarill ;) Mega altaria checks bulky waters too and can potentially set up on them as you can run heal bell on the set or facade too i guess (though personally i'd prefer return for overall more consistency and you're free to run heal bell). Pretty self-explanatory though, have fun dude :)

Offensive Core I Would Use With Mega Altaria:

sets

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 92 SpD / 28 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Return
- Heal Bell

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Fire
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt

Weavile @ Choice Band / Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit /Swords Dance

 

[HailFall]

I think right now defensive mega alt should be running body slam to cripple its checks with paralysis on switchin because checks to it are everywhere unfortunately. Alt is a really hard mon to set up in this meta so i think being able to annoy your opponents right off the bat is very valuble. The special attacker set with hyper voice/fire blast/earthquake/roost is also pretty decent because it has really good coverage and doesnt need to set up to leave holes in your opponents team.

 

[Martin]

Yeah HVoice+Roost+FBlast+Quake is probably it's best set in the current meta 'cause team's are a little unprepared for it compared to DD which teams happen overprepare for DD sets just by meeting basic building requirements anyway and also because it doesn't fail to break either Heatran or Ferro/Skarm like DD+2 attacks does due to its ability to run 2 coverage moves without sacrificing it's ability to function in it's designated role. That said Alt is pretty bad nowadays and you'd need a pretty good justification to use it over another mega/Fairy-type in the current metagame.

 

[BIG G CHOPPA]

Yes you need quite some significant support to carry it or make it at least somewhat decent but it's a chore really lol, which isn't the most ideal thing you're looking for when building a team. You'd rather prefer a mega that could carry itself and its team-members without wasting a slot or being dead-weight most of the time.

 

[JosephCottone]

One mon that I've been using on stall lately that I've liked lately is doublade. The ability to check all of Certain Zam sets, Terrakion (giant-ass threat to stall if banded), Mega Diancie, Clefable, Mega Pinsir, Mega Heracross, Mega Medicham, and Mega Gardevoir in the same slot is invaluable for stall since they all can be huge threats to standard stall teams and its ability to be a wincon for stall with sd is really nice overall. Obviously doublade's lack of reliable recovery kinda sucks ass, but checking so many mons in one slot is so nice. Additionally, it doesn't drop to dragmag builds like non-shed shell skarm does since it's a ghost type and can switch out along with it having really good offensive coverage in between its STABs and sacred sword. Also, if you find yourself relying on doublade to check every single one of these threats in one slot, then you can also run a restalk gyro set that can check all of these mons decently well at the cost of offensive presence and forcing you to run a wincon in another slot. When i build with doublade, i generally try to have a couple of backup checks to all of these mons just in case I see like Banded Terrak+Mega Medicham on the same team or something like that so that doublade doesn't have so much pressure on it to check both mons in the same slot, but that's just my personal preference when using this thing. Overall, doublade is an interesting option for stall teams that can be used to patch up weaknesses to common stallbreakers, but has some issues such as relying on restalk if it wants recovery as well as being weak to common offensive types such as fire and ground.

I like doublade too. I prefer to use power trick to add power to an amazing move set. I also like to put protect and defensive moves so it lasts longer in battle

A mon that has been very useful to me is mega Tyranitar. The varied physical move set can be adjusted with easy for the type of pokemon you are facing and these attacks can be boosted with dragon dance, providing even more power. The ability to do this, lay hazards and the sandstream ability make this pokemon great for any team