Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100

[Shruggy]

Hi guys! I would really like to nominate a mon that I dont think has been discussed much in this particular role: swift swim sweeper qwilfish to C or C-

Now this little critter has a couple of very very useful niches over the two main physical swift swimmers, kabutops and m-swampert

1) Neutral to grass instead of 4x weakness
2) Immunity to toxic
3) Access to nice utility moves like d-bond/taunt/tspikes/explosion

Going to here mainly compare it to its main rival for the physical non-mega sweeper, kabutops. As thats probably the fairest comparison. Stat-wise it is a bit subpar, less attack and bulk (hence the lower rank) but with life orb + ada + rain qwilfish still hits really hard and with a SD boost it becomes a terrifying sweeper much like kabutops.

Here is a sample set:

Qwilfish @ Life Orb/lum berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Poison Jab
- Swords Dance
- Taunt/Explosion/Toxic Spikes

Life orb for extra damage which he needs, swift swim is mandatory on rain teams then full attack damage. Just like kabutops lum berry is viable to stop burns/twaves.

The first two attacks are both stab 80 BP moves. Waterfall has a nice flinch chance and Jab comes with a 30% chance to poison which can turn a lot of 3hkos into 2hkos (not that it should be relied on but its a nice bonus. SD boosts his attack to 630 odd and is great on a predicted switch to nail something after. However it misses out on a couple of key OHKOs that kabutops would get under the same conditions (eg. Skarm)

The last spot is where the fish shines imo. Want a stallbreaker? Run taunt and watch them cry as you kill them or switch to keep momentum. Want a nuke? Run explosion and literally 2 hit the entire meta barring m-slowbro. Very good at surprising people as under the rain barring priority (which he resists a lot of) he will do a last hit to do mega damage. Finally you have t-spikes or even regular spikes which are great thanks to the number of switching you can force.

Calcs for some of the more common OU mons, qwilfish is actually capable of 2 shotting all of the s-rank mons which is quite a feat.

Hide

252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Altaria: 165-195 (53.7 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 165-195 (51 - 60.3%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus in Rain: 494-585 (154.8 - 183.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T in Rain: 237-281 (62 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 121-144 (34.2 - 40.7%) -- 51.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Explosion calcs:

Hide

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Explosion vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 252-298 (71.3 - 84.4%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 147-174 (37.3 - 44.1%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Explosion vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 198-233 (54.3 - 64%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Explosion vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Amoonguss: 320-377 (74 - 87.2%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Explosion vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Tentacruel: 294-347 (82.3 - 97.1%)

Point of these calcs is to show that even mons that counter you can be killed if necessary if it will allow another swift swim sweeper to clean.

However it is not without its flaws. While it handles most grass types which that in itself is amazing it struggles vs mons like amoonguss, m-venu who have grass/poison typing, while it resists their damage too its not the best matchup. Bulky waters like tentacruel, slowbro, suicune and especially empoleon also give it trouble since a scald burn is pretty bad but you can run lum berry if you are worried about that. However apart from that you pretty much can hit everyone since these mons wall rain sweepers in general

TL:DR. Doesnt hit quite as hard as kabutops but still does the job. Has a nice niche in no grass weakness, utility moves and hitting all s rank mons. Therefore im nominating to the C rank compared to kabutops in B

Currently im at work so I cant post replays of it in action but if it is required to make nominations then I will edit them in these evening

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

Hi guys! I would really like to nominate a mon that I dont think has been discussed much in this particular role: swift swim sweeper qwilfish to C or C-

Now this little critter has a couple of very very useful niches over the two main physical swift swimmers, kabutops and m-swampert

1) Neutral to grass instead of 4x weakness
2) Immunity to toxic
3) Access to nice utility moves like d-bond/taunt/tspikes/explosion

Going to here mainly compare it to its main rival for the physical non-mega sweeper, kabutops. As thats probably the fairest comparison. Stat-wise it is a bit subpar, less attack and bulk (hence the lower rank) but with life orb + ada + rain qwilfish still hits really hard and with a SD boost it becomes a terrifying sweeper much like kabutops.

Here is a sample set:

Qwilfish @ Life Orb/lum berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Poison Jab
- Swords Dance
- Taunt/Explosion/Toxic Spikes

Life orb for extra damage which he needs, swift swim is mandatory on rain teams then full attack damage. Just like kabutops lum berry is viable to stop burns/twaves.

The first two attacks are both stab 80 BP moves. Waterfall has a nice flinch chance and Jab comes with a 30% chance to poison which can turn a lot of 3hkos into 2hkos (not that it should be relied on but its a nice bonus. SD boosts his attack to 630 odd and is great on a predicted switch to nail something after. However it misses out on a couple of key OHKOs that kabutops would get under the same conditions (eg. Skarm)

The last spot is where the fish shines imo. Want a stallbreaker? Run taunt and watch them cry as you kill them or switch to keep momentum. Want a nuke? Run explosion and literally 2 hit the entire meta barring m-slowbro. Very good at surprising people as under the rain barring priority (which he resists a lot of) he will do a last hit to do mega damage. Finally you have t-spikes or even regular spikes which are great thanks to the number of switching you can force.

Calcs for some of the more common OU mons, qwilfish is actually capable of 2 shotting all of the s-rank mons which is quite a feat.

Hide

252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Altaria: 165-195 (53.7 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 165-195 (51 - 60.3%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus in Rain: 494-585 (154.8 - 183.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T in Rain: 237-281 (62 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 121-144 (34.2 - 40.7%) -- 51.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Explosion calcs:

Hide

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Explosion vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 252-298 (71.3 - 84.4%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 147-174 (37.3 - 44.1%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Explosion vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 198-233 (54.3 - 64%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Explosion vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Amoonguss: 320-377 (74 - 87.2%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Explosion vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Tentacruel: 294-347 (82.3 - 97.1%)

Point of these calcs is to show that even mons that counter you can be killed if necessary if it will allow another swift swim sweeper to clean.

However it is not without its flaws. While it handles most grass types which that in itself is amazing it struggles vs mons like amoonguss, m-venu who have grass/poison typing, while it resists their damage too its not the best matchup. Bulky waters like tentacruel, slowbro, suicune and especially empoleon also give it trouble since a scald burn is pretty bad but you can run lum berry if you are worried about that. However apart from that you pretty much can hit everyone.

TL:DR. Doesnt hit quite as hard as kabutops but still does the job. Has a nice niche in no grass weakness, utility moves and hitting all s rank mons. Therefore im nominating to the C rank compared to kabutops in B

Currently im at work so I cant post replays of it in action but if it is required to make nominations then I will edit them in these evening

I'm actually against torwards this as qwilfish wasn't ranked last time it was nommed. I use qwilfish as a defensive spikes stacker and have good experience with it but still wouldn't recommend it. Why? Cuz it's niche as fuck.

About mega medicham going to B- is something that I agree with because C+ is too low. Sure it takes up a mega but what other mega reaches 656 attack unboosted? Plus people realised mega gallade is mediocre and the hype for mega sableye and mega slowbro has died down some which is helping it.

 

[Flamer]

There is literally no reason I would use Quilfish as a swift swim sweeper over the multitude of other mons that get it. Hell Floatzel would probably be a better choice. The only "viable" set quilfish has is the intimidate+spikes/toxic spikes set and even that is pretty hopelessly outclassed in OU. Dont nominate mons just bc they have a miniscule niche in OU (if you could call being absolutely outclassed by every other swift swimmer in existance a niche). D rank is not for trash mons that you might use just to be different, they have a unique use on select teams that few other mons can provide and seeing as you nominated it for C makes me think you dont know much about OU.

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

for C-

Staraptor should drop simply because it's main niche on bird spam has dropped in usage and while it's still a thing it's really hard to justify it's use over other wallbreakers because they offer more defensive synergy,have more longevity,have better speed, or are not reliant on choice items to do Their dirty work. In fact staraptor's biggest problem is both it's sets are scarf and band and they are stupidly easy to see through based on damage output alongside it's severe lack of longevity alongside how hard it is to justify it's use over other wallbreakers. And besides honchkrow is a better bird spam wallbreaker because it isn't choice locked and can get around mega slowbro without committing suicide which is important because mega bro can have a field day vs bird spam cleaners.

 

[Shruggy]

There is literally no reason I would use Quilfish as a swift swim sweeper over the multitude of other mons that get it. Hell Floatzel would probably be a better choice. The only "viable" set quilfish has is the intimidate+spikes/toxic spikes set and even that is pretty hopelessly outclassed in OU. Dont nominate mons just bc they have a miniscule niche in OU (if you could call being absolutely outclassed by every other swift swimmer in existance a niche). D rank is not for trash mons that you might use just to be different, they have a unique use on select teams that few other mons can provide and seeing as you nominated it for C makes me think you dont know much about OU.

No sir im afraid I dont know much about OU, only been playing a couple of months and there is quite a steep learning curve I have found. Im sorry if you dont like my nomination it was really made on the fact it doesnt have a grass weakness which is rare for a swift swimmer so I thought that was an acceptable niche.

I am not using qwilfish "just to be different". I just thought it would be interesting to have a discussion about its strong and weak points. Was not intending to offend anyone with my post

 

[AM]

for C-

Staraptor should drop simply because it's main niche on bird spam has dropped in usage and while it's still a thing it's really hard to justify it's use over other wallbreakers because they offer more defensive synergy,have more longevity,have better speed, or are not reliant on choice items to do Their dirty work. In fact staraptor's biggest problem is both it's sets are scarf and band and they are stupidly easy to see through based on damage output. And besides honchkrow is a better bird spam wallbreaker because it isn't choice locked and can get around mega slowbro without committing suicide which is important because mega bro can have a field day vs bird spam cleaners.

Staraptor hits insanely hard man lol. The only reason why it's not higher is because its power output alone reduces its longevity. Both of the sets predictability doesn't change the fact that very little in the tier wants to be switching into it other than the rare Rhyperior and Band set is able to punch through most of its resists with the exception of like Doublade I guess? I mean Honchkrow isn't exactly a wall-breaker until it gets a Moxie boost and even then all the stuff it can get around normally will have ways to get around it as well.

 

[Master B8s]

While I agree the qwilfish isn't worth a rank, at least shruggy put a lot of thought into his nomination. His post was well thought out and provided all its pros and cons unlike most of the other D-Rank nominations in the past.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

I really don't know why I would use Qwilfish over another rain sweeper. There are other viable rain sweepers not weak to grass, just like Kingdra, and having a 4x weakness isn't detrimental as most rain sweepers can get past Grass-types. Mega Swampert has Ice Punch, and Waterfall does a nice chunk anyway, as well as Superpower for Ferrothorn, Kabutops has Stone Edge and Low Kick for Celebi and Ferrothorn, respectively etc. The only thing Qwilfish has over rain sweepers is its Poison STAB, and Poison is not a spectacular typing offensive to be honest, Taunt and Toxic Spikes. I mean, having Taunt and Toxic Spikes isn't relevant of a niche, or else Garbrodor, Drapion etc. would be D rank.

 

[Eraxxer]

I think Staraptor is a great wallbreaker still as it can get a guaranteed 2HKO on Mega Slowbro with the Banded set after a tiny bit of damage and rocks. It's guaranteed if Slowbro hasn't Mega Evolved before the switch. Sure, it kills itself in the process easily, but the absolutely disgusting power of its attacks makes up for it. Close Combat, Double-Edge and Brave Bird is walled by Doublade only, and just about everything that can switch in and take a hit doesn't have reliable recovery (Mega Metagross, Landorus-T, Rhyperior). In the current meta something that can hit this hard with near perfect coverage, braeking through even Mega Slowbro is ridiculously handy.

Whether it's band it's destroying defensive and bulky offensive teams or scarf and it's destroying offensive and balance, it's got a decent 100 Speed tier and just enough bulk to take a lot of faster hits (talonflame's Brave Bird for example) and destroy in return.

Just realised I've been ninjad by AM but the point still stands, it's a great mon and it doesn't need a drop.

 

[Tressed]

This didn't generate much discussion last time I posted it, so I'd like to bring up Mega Glalie again.

-> Unranked

I have no idea why Mega Glalie is sitting in D-Rank right now. No one disagrees that it hits incredibly hard, but OU isn't exactly lacking in hard hitters. Things like Landorus, Mega Gardevoir, Kyurem Black, Zard-Y, Mega Heracross, Mega Pinsir, and even edgier stuff like Mega Houndoom and Crawdaunt are all terrifying threats to stall teams. More importantly, all of these Pokemon have something that makes them far superior to Glalie, be it having a better matchup against offense, having some sort of defensive typing, not taking a Mega slot, or some combination of the above. Moreover, Glalie's claim to fame, Glaciate Explosion, kinda sucks. While it certainly can blow a hole in a defensive team, other wallbreakers are able to do that too, and without killing themselves to boot. It isn't something I'd ever put on a team simply because if you want an Ice type wallbreaker, Kyurem Black exists. You could make an argument that Glalie doesn't struggle as much with Chansey and Clefable, but the correct way to fix this would be to throw the proper coverage move onto Kyu-B and fix your team up so that the other one is better managed. I've also never seen or heard of anyone using Mega Glalie at a competitive level (though if there are some replays of tour usage, please correct me), so the fact that top tier players aren't considering this thing for their teams should speak volumes about how good it actually is.

TL;DR: Terrible matchup against offense, bad defensive typing and stats, takes up a Mega slot, and fails to find a niche outside of killing itself.

 

[talah]

The thing about M-Glalie is that, while it is true that Kyu-B is an Ice type wallbreaker, it's only Ice STAB is Ice Beam, which is special and requires investment in SpA, which Glalie doesn't need. It deals with things that Kyu-B doesn't deal much easier, such as Ferrothorn, Clefable, which are problems for the physical set. The special set struggles against things such as Chansey, CM Clefable and requires a lot of prediction. Mega Glalie deals with all of those in one set, and it just click Return most of the time, which does insane damage because of Regrigerate. It also has a better Speed tier and access to Ice Shard to pick off weakened threats, EQ to deal with things that would otherwise switch in such as Heatran, while Explosion is used as a last ditch effort to kill literally anything in OU(even things that resist it are either killed or severely wounded)

 

[Imperator Romanum]

So why did Kyurem go directly from unranked to C-?

 

[heritage]

So why did Kyurem go directly from unranked to C-?

It has a niche in its SubRoost set that can pressure (no pun intended) slower, more defensive Pokemon such as Ferrothorn to use up all of its Gyro Ball PP or the likes, while still hitting hard with STAB Ice Beam. It's certainly better than some of the Pokemon in D rank, like Rotom-Heat lol, hence why it was moved to C- instead.

 

[Toxzn]

I feel like Alakazam Mega should be bumped up to A or maybe as high as A+, after testing alot it is a pretty incredible Pokemon. The high speed and power gives offensive cores difficultly. The ability to trace immunities and power boosting abilities is also great for revenge killing and forcing switches, like tracing Heatran's Flash Fire or Landorus-I's Sheer Force.

Also Access to moves such as Encore, Taunt, and Calm Mind allow it to break stall to some degree.

The A- ranking is too low, it's definitely an up and coming threat.

 

[BlazeLatias]

I feel like Alakazam Mega should be bumped up to maybe as high as A+, after testing a lot it is a pretty incredible Pokemon, the high speed and power gives offensive cores difficultly. The ability to trace immunities and power boosting abilities is also great for revenge killing and forcing switches, like tracing Heatran's Flash Fire or Landorus-I's Sheer Force.

Also Access to moves such as Encore, Taunt, and Calm Mind allow it to break stall to some degree.

The A- ranking is too low.

I dont really agree with A+. Mega Zam as a whole is not on the same level as other A+ mons. Keep in mind that hes very frail. Where he currently sits is perfectly fine.
Other reasons why he should not be A+ is despite how fast he is and his good coverage as well as his bad typing set him back. Hes also very prone to being revenged and ohko'd which is a pretty big flaw and another reason why it shouldent be A+. Also i think mega zam has trouble pulling off a cm becuase of his pretty poor bulk.

 

[Toxzn]

I dont really agree with A+. Mega Zam as a whole is not on the same level as other A+ mons. Keep in mind that hes very frail. Where he currently sits is perfectly fine.
Other reasons why he should not be A+ is as despite how fast he is and his coverage his typing as well as being very prone to being revenged and ohko'd is a pretty big flaw and why it shouldent be A+.

Gengar, Mega Lopunny, Bisharp are all frail mons sitting happily in A+ All of them prone to revenging killing with common priority moves. Mega Zam can Trace immunity abilities and what not, like I said. This makes it harder to revenge, after looking at the A+ mons I definitely think it comparable.

 

[MANNAT]

It has a niche in its SubRoost set that can pressure (no pun intended) slower, more defensive Pokemon such as Ferrothorn to use up all of its Gyro Ball PP or the likes, while still hitting hard with STAB Ice Beam. It's certainly better than some of the Pokemon in D rank, like Rotom-Heat lol, hence why it was moved to C- instead.

Doesn't Kyurem-B do the same thing but better?

 

[Tressed]

Doesn't Kyurem-B do the same thing but better?

Kyu-B can do a more offensive variant of that set. Given how it lacks Pressure, though, it's not able to PP stall opponents anywhere near as effectively.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

I support Mega Alakazam's rise to A, but not A+, idk about A+ rn but A sounds ok.

Mega Alakazam is a really underprepared threat in today's metagame. Aside from its surprise factor, it functions as a great late-game cleaner, utility attacker, and stallbreaker. Its access to a blistering 150 base Speed allows it to outspeed top-tier threats such as Mega Metagross, Keldeo, Mega Lopunny, Landorus, Mega Altaria, as well as a sky-high 175 Special Attack, allowing it to effectively 2HKO most of the metagame. Psychic + Focus Blast + Shadow Ball covers the entire metagame bar Mega Sableye, leaving the last slot open for many options. Mega Alakazam has a whole host of utility options in its arsenal, such as Encore, Taunt, Calm Mind, rendering it capable of dealing with not only offense, which it primarily excels against, but also stall and in some cases balance. Its ability to trace potentially stellar abilities such as Sheer Force or Adapatability is an added bonus as well.
Yes, Mega Alakazam is frail, but during the late-game it won't need to take hits since the opposition is basically hanging by a thread.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

No sir im afraid I dont know much about OU, only been playing a couple of months and there is quite a steep learning curve I have found. Im sorry if you dont like my nomination it was really made on the fact it doesnt have a grass weakness which is rare for a swift swimmer so I thought that was an acceptable niche.

I am not using qwilfish "just to be different". I just thought it would be interesting to have a discussion about its strong and weak points. Was not intending to offend anyone with my post

I am aware that you say that you are new to the OU meta, but you need to refrain from posting comments that will bring nothing until you know what you are doing. I held my thoughts for over a year as I followed the meta and only recently have I deemed myself good enough for my opinions to carry any weight. If you are still in the stage of thinking that some garbage mon like Qwilfish should be even in D rank (not even mentioning C) then you need to take a step back and look more into how ORAS OU works. I am not trying to be mean, but proposing a mon to come into C from Unranked based on your own experiences which you yourself admit are limited is simply a post that will cause nothing but crap in chat as it is already showing. If anything if a Mod comes across this stuff about Qwilfish he may just blacklist it.

 

[Eraxxer]

Gengar, Mega Lopunny, Bisharp are all frail mons sitting happily in A+ All of them prone to revenging killing with common priority moves. Mega Zam can Trace immunity abilities and what not, like I said. This makes it harder to revenge, after looking at the A+ mons I definitely think it comparable.

Gengar has an amazing STAB combo that in combination with Focus Blast basically hits the entire tier Super Effectively. It also can hold a Life Orb which Zam can't, and has a much better defensive typing.

Lopunny is much bulkier than Alakazam in every stat while hitting harder with High Jump Kick, with unresisted dual STAB.

Bisharp has a relatively high 100 base Defense, with STAB Knock Off, powerful STAB Priority and decent typing, resisting Talonflame's Brave Bird.

Zam is good but not really worthy of A+ IMO. It lacks the stopping power to pick up KOs on a lot of things and has no bulk to live any hits after that.

 

[BlazeLatias]

I wasn't really calling mega zam bad. But was just listing a few reason why he shouldn't be A+ rank. Hes a mon that people often times dont prep for and while i do admit hes a great revenge killer A+ is a bit overboard. Hell trace is a great ability but his overall bulk and typing keep him from being A+. Agreeing with DarkNostalgia however. Also read Eraxxers comment as i was going to say that also on why those mons are A+ and not zam

 

[Shruggy]

I am aware that you say that you are new to the OU meta, but you need to refrain from posting comments that will bring nothing until you know what you are doing. I held my thoughts for over a year as I followed the meta and only recently have I deemed myself good enough for my opinions to carry any weight. If you are still in the stage of thinking that some garbage mon like Qwilfish should be even in D rank (not even mentioning C) then you need to take a step back and look more into how ORAS OU works. I am not trying to be mean, but proposing a mon to come into C from Unranked based on your own experiences which you yourself admit are limited is simply a post that will cause nothing but crap in chat as it is already showing. If anything if a Mod comes across this stuff about Qwilfish he may just blacklist it.

Thank you friend that point has been made a couple of times already. I have also already said that im sorry if my post offended people. I will keep my thoughts and opinions private until people consider me more qualified to post them on the forum

 

[QueenOfHax]

Doesn't Kyurem-B do the same thing but better?

Thanks to Pressure Kyurem can PP stall common 8 PP moves thrown at it such as Gyro Ball, Close Combat and Stone Edge, something Kyu-B can't do. It also has slightly higher SpA and SubRoost sets usually run Ice Beam+Earth Power so Kyu-B's higher attack stat is irrelevant.
It should be noted that even though Kyu-B's Teravolt gives it better coverage with IB+EP against the likes of Rotom-W and Bronzong, in practice Kyurem still wins by PP stalling since they lack reliable recovery moves.

 

[Martin]

mega zam has a much less exasperated case of mega latios syndrome. it is better as a pokemon, but the opportunity cost to doing so is high. unlike latios, alakazam kinda sucks in ou, but m-zam, while very good, takes up your mega slot. this makes it a poor option on most teams. hence why it doesnt sit above a-. tbh id support a drop to b+ personally, but im not going to go into detail as i dont care that much either way.