kinda agree w/ this, if i can find a reason to use it over spD slowbro. this thing still has a pursuit weakness and lacks physical bulk, and i think b+ is a little too high for it, but i can see it rising to B.Slowking B- -> B/B+
kinda agree w/ this, if i can find a reason to use it over spD slowbro. this thing still has a pursuit weakness and lacks physical bulk, and i think b+ is a little too high for it, but i can see it rising to B.Slowking B- -> B/B+
It's main niche is in its AV set, which is ridiculously bulky on the special side along with an ability that lets it be a fat dope that never dies. With some investment, it can avoid the 2HKO from Mega Charizard Y, phaze a +3 Tail Glow Manaphy a better offensive movepool compared to Slowbro, with the ability to pivot in almost any special attacker that doesn't have SE STAB on it, even some of the weaker ones that do! Yes, it definitely likes team support, especially things that can eat Toxics and Wisps, and something for Pursuit users, but its definitely a solid pivot for bulkier teams, being able to scout out almost any special hit, and switching out to get rid of the damage it has taken. Not only is it extremely specially bulky, it isn't passive and is also rather difficult to wear down (Chansey, I'm looking at you, despite Softboiled). I'd definitely support a rise to B, although I'm a bit iffy on B+.
sorry fren but nopebkc said:This is kind of a tall order though. I was messing around with calcs and stood aghast as I beheld the fevers:
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 150-178 (38 - 45.1%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (same calc if both natures are neutral)
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
So Slowking needs to have max HP, a positive nature, and 176 SpDef EVs to live 2 SolarBeams after SR from Timid Zard. I mean it's nice if rocks aren't up but I don't think that's something you can really rely on. I would personally scrap this as a benchmark and focus on Landorus or something; 248 HP/56 SpDef survives 2 EPs with SR and sand against neutral Lando, it takes 160 SpDef to do the same against +SpAtk but I'm not sure if that's worth it since you can abuse its affirmed lack of speed and the almost forced second EP to pivot around it when you learn it isn't sitting at that dangerous 331 Speed. The EVs that you would put into surviving Zard are better off elsewhere.
True. It can check it without rocks but that's it. I'll cross it out to avoid confusion.sorry fren but nope
It's actually preferable to show a wall of calcs as opposed to the alternative, and "what it can survive" is pretty integral to the functioning of a defensive mon, especially one whose niche is checking most of the S and A+ ranks. It's not like someone nominated lando-I to S+ without any real justification or anything.id be better if you could compare slowking to other b mons rather than saying how cool it is or what hit can it survive. this isnt the place here we discuss the best sets, we dont need you tell us about it pls.
I'm on board with what you're saying, but I wouldn't go so far as to compare Suicune to Alo as Alo has no offensive presence whatsoever and trades off whatever greater support it can give by being more passive than Chansey.My big problem with Suicune is the amount of free turns it can potentially give to the opponent because of how unreliable ResTalk is. And although in theory it has ridiculous bulk, when you realise that it only needs to be 3HKOed to be defeated as opposed to 2HKOed like most walls, it becomes a lot less impressive. Most teams are equipped with somthing to handle bulky waters given how omnipresent they are at the moment and how important they are to deal with, and Suicune kinda falls to most of these, particularly NP Celebi and TG EBall Manaphy. Also, it doesn’t even beat a lot of stuff it’s supposed to. For example, at +1, it can’t 2HKO standard XZad who, in return, 2HKO it at +2, so it’s going to lose to it 1v1. It has the same problem as Alomomola where it needs a Scald burn beat stuff like Bisharp or Scizor (to a lesser extent, Scizor needs to be extremely lucky to actually win). Except Mola can afford to carry Toxic more easily and supports its teammates much better. It’s just not on par with the rest of B+ in terms of consistency, it relies too much on Scald burns and Sleep Talk rolls to do its job as well as it wants.
It's true that I should have compared Slowking to other B 'mons, how much a defensive 'mon can take as well as its positive traits isn't exactly something to be dismissed. Noted though, I'll consider that in the future.id be better if you could compare slowking to other b mons rather than saying how cool it is or what hit can it survive. this isnt the place here we discuss the best sets, we dont need you tell us about it pls.
Alright I'm going to have to disagree with a few things you said here. Let's address your first point about Fairies and Clefable.I think with Conk the problem comes from how matchup reliant it is as a wallbreaker. Its movepool is OK, but it always suffers from either being walled by something it needs to break or sacrificing a priority move (i.e. its way to outpace faster Pokémon) to hit all of its targets with its coverage options. If there were no Fairy-types to worry about, Conk would be significantly better at its role, but the fact that it has to choose between Mach Punch, Knock Off and Poison Jab means that it needs significant support to handle a lot of the things it needs to break. TBH, there are better choices for a team the majority of the time, and I fully support it moving down to B-. Additionally, like bludz said, it needs to sacrifice a significant amount of bulk to outpace walls such as Clefable and Heatran, to the point of one of its main selling points simply losing prominence. Unless a metagame shift which renders pokemon like Clefable obsolete (not going to happen), Conk's effectiveness is severely capped, with it being just barely B- material in the current state of the meta. If there are any metagame shifts that favor Fairy- or Flying-types, no matter how minor, Conk will tip over the edge into mediocrity, and it is something which needs to be kept in mind when discussing him as a Pokémon. It also makes one question why it hasn't dropped under the 3.41% usage bracket that defines OU while Pokémon which are actually good, such as Volcarona, Hippowdon, Alakazam, Pinsir and M-Aero, are stuck in BL and below.
People use the term 4MSS to refer to anything that wishes it had at least one extra move slot in order to fulfill its role to the absolute best of its ability. This can manifest itself in positive or negative ways. For example, for Greninja, its 4MSS was a plus, since it meant that it could pick four moves from a total of 6 or 7 very useful moves to run depending on what the team needs most, making it fairly unpredictable. It might have liked to run more than 4, but it didn't actually need to. Then you get to things that don't necessarily need to have all of their viable moves for a set in order to be successful, but would really benefit from it. Since I've been pushing Custap Skarm a bit lately, I'll use it as an example. It would love to be able to run Brave Bird, Iron Head, SR, Spikes, and Taunt all on the same moveset, but it doesn't lose too much viability with only being able to pick 4 of those. It's just a question of what you need the least.I was under the impression that 4MSS referred to a Pokemon that needed more moveslots than it has in order to effectively fulfil its niche, like Lucario?
I definitely disagree with this. M-Scizor is one of the best bulky offense mons at the moment. I'm not sure what you mean specifically when you say M-Scizor has a "hard time doing its job", because its has so many sets to choose from. M-Scizor is an incredibly versatile pokemon - bulky set up sweeper, baton passer, u-turn/defog, roost 3 attacks - just a ton of different things to choose from, and it can perform all of these roles rather effectively. Yeah that fire weakness sucks, but it is its only weakness, albeit a 4x one. With fairies everywhere, M-Scizor makes one of the best blanket fairy checks because it can threaten/revenge kill most if not all of them with technician boosted priority bullet punch. Also, the M-Metagross and Ferrothorn comparisons are kinda off. M-Metagross is mostly an all out attacker (bar the rare agility) and ferrothorn is a utility/support mon.Nominating mega scizor for A (from A+)
Taking up a mega slot is a huge deal rn, and As a steel type scizor had lots of threatening competition (metagross,ferrothorn and metagross mainly)
Alot of pokemon like to get coverage for Ferro like altaria or hp fire lati, and for such a crucial slot like a mega slot, i feel like m scizor has a hard time doing its job, as it could end up dieing on the switch, but it definitely does its job as a late game cleaner, but i fell like that's just not enough for Warrent an A+ MEGA slot.
You're missing the point. Mega Scizor is A+ at the moment precisely BECAUSE MegaGross is so popular. Mega Scizor is one of the few things that can really stand up to MegaGross, thanks to great defenses that allow it to take a few hits, and a great attack score that makes it easy for something like Knock Off, or even Superpower to do major damage to MegaGross, especially if it can get an SD under its belt. Also, you mention Mega Scizor as being a late-game cleaner, but that's only one of its sets. The Bulky SD set is quite capable of coming in at various points throughout the game to sponge weaker or resisted hits and take out targets of opportunity, or wear down whatever your opponent switches in to counter it (with the exception of Magnezone, but you'd have to be an idiot to send Scizor out with that thing still around, unless you're gonna double switch immediately). It can't really set up until all of its checks and counters are gone, but that's what the other five team members are for. If Mega Metagross were to get banned, or if MegaGross' usage suddenly fell off for some inconceivable reason, Mega Scizor would probably go back down to A. But right now, Mega Scizor is one of the best Megas for use on Bulky Offense teams, and it definitely belongs in A+ at this point in time.Nominating mega scizor for A (from A+)
Taking up a mega slot is a huge deal rn, and As a steel type scizor had lots of threatening competition (metagross,ferrothorn and metagross mainly)
Alot of pokemon like to get coverage for Ferro like altaria or hp fire lati, and for such a crucial slot like a mega slot, i feel like m scizor has a hard time doing its job, as it could end up dieing on the switch, but it definitely does its job as a late game cleaner, but i fell like that's just not enough for Warrent an A+ MEGA slot.
I think zapdos needs a lot more love, so yeah move the big bird up, but torn-t i disagree with.I don't know if anyone has nominated them yet, but suggesting Zapdos moving from B- to B/B+ and Tornadus-T from A to A+.
Atm, SpDef Zapdos is one of the few Pokemon that can switch in onto Landorus-I, Tornadus-T or offensive Scizor-Mega with ease and threatening them with HP ice/Heat wave. Also, it performs an awesome role against SpikeStack teams which tend to abuse a lot mons like Garchomp, Ferrorhorn, Starmie or Skarmory to name a few. It has also the speed necessary to outpace threats like Bisharp and it can spread some paras with Discharge, which is always good to lure incoming threats (mainly Heatran) or offensive builds.
Moving onto Tornadus-T, its promotion is almost self-explanatory, and I don't get why this isn't A+ yet. Its blazing speed (pressuring slower and abused mons such as the Lati twins, Keldeo, Starmie, Gengar and so on), access to a vast movepool (Hurricane, Heat Wave, Focus Blast, U-Turn, Superpower, Knock Off, IcE Wind...), the ability of switching into a plethora of special threats, the momentum it gives with U-Turn (pretty much a 0 downsides move) and the possibility of running a mixed attacking set makes it deserve a place in the A+ club. It fits well in either offensive or balanced structured teams, and it doesn't take a mega slot, so its opportunity cost is not very high at all.
So what do you guys think? :]