Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100

[henry]

Manaphy: A- it still ruins an entirely of a playstyle but is often next to dead weight against others
Tornadus-T: A- people are really overstretching its ability to piss off teams. often in some matchups it can do very little and doesnt do much more than knocking off some items and grabbing some momentum still a great pkmn but not akin to the ability of A rank pkmns
Dragonite: B+
Kingdra: A- rain is still batshit insane, and kingdra is at helm of playstyle next to politoed because of how it can outspeed all of ou (learns signal beam for high usage celebi as well)
Mew: B+
Mega Beedrill: B scarf landot and ferro are fucking everywhere. has hard time using an attack other than u-turn and is insanely weak to all priority/hazards
Mega Sceptile: B+
Volcarona: B
Togekiss: B terrorizes stall and can annoy offense with twave
Victini: B
Mega Ampharos: idk xD
Slowking: C+
Mienshao: unranked

 

[NotSoClutch]

Let's see this overrated bulk.
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 296-351 (73.4 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 307-361 (76.1 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
With an AV Azumarill has enough bulk to check like, everything on offense pretty much. It doesn't also get worn down as fast as you'd think because most of the time its forcing things out, and its only getting hit if you decide that you want to switch into some resisted attack or tank a move while hitting and finish off with Aqua Jet

The thing about Azumarill is that it isn't solely a wallbreaker. It's also (as has been mentioned) a complete monster against offensive teams because it checks literally 90% of offensive Pokemon and kills even more with the right move. You can force out a boatload of threats lncluding Gallade and Lopunny. With Azumarill, you have a check against all kinds of threats in the meta like Sableye, Keldeo, Gyara, Charizard-X and more. Sure, it can't directly switch in too well to some threats, but in an emergency it can still beat Sableye and Keldeo even if its burned. You're saying that Azumarill is a fairy type that can't switch into Sableye like its a bad thing, when other fairy types don't exactly enjoy doing this either. I'd like to see Diggersby or Sylveon bring what Azumarill brings to a team with relatively no need for support.

Also I don't see how its speed vs. walls is a real problem when the walls that outspeed it (Gliscor, Mandibuzz, any others?) it get generally pooped on.

Finally, you can't compare Azumarill's wallbreaking ability to other dedicated wallbreakers like Gardevoir as an argument to lower it on the viability chart because it brings so much to the team besides wallbreaking, and can run other really good sets that don't wallbreak at all.

Not to mention that it's belly drum set arguably got even better with the ability to run knock off on belly drum sets to beat some of the set's former checks more reliably than other options while also having new Pokemon that simply can't take an aqua jet (or outspeed in the case of the new walls). Azumarill is just so good in so many different roles that it deserves nothing less than A+ without a doubt.

 

[Notorious544d]

Let's see this overrated bulk.
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 296-351 (73.4 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 307-361 (76.1 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
With an AV Azumarill has enough bulk to check like, everything on offense pretty much. It doesn't also get worn down as fast as you'd think because most of the time its forcing things out, and its only getting hit if you decide that you want to switch into some resisted attack or tank a move while hitting and finish off with Aqua Jet

The thing about Azumarill is that it isn't solely a wallbreaker. It's also (as has been mentioned) a complete monster against offensive teams because it checks literally 90% of offensive Pokemon and kills even more with the right move. You can force out a boatload of threats lncluding Gallade and Lopunny. With Azumarill, you have a check against all kinds of threats in the meta like Sableye, Keldeo, Gyara, Charizard-X and more. Sure, it can't directly switch in too well to some threats, but in an emergency it can still beat Sableye and Keldeo even if its burned. You're saying that Azumarill is a fairy type that can't switch into Sableye like its a bad thing, when other fairy types don't exactly enjoy doing this either. I'd like to see Diggersby or Sylveon bring what Azumarill brings to a team with relatively no need for support.

Also I don't see how its speed vs. walls is a real problem when the walls that outspeed it (Gliscor, Mandibuzz, any others?) it get generally pooped on.

Finally, you can't compare Azumarill's wallbreaking ability to other dedicated wallbreakers like Gardevoir as an argument to lower it on the viability chart because it brings so much to the team besides wallbreaking, and can run other really good sets that don't wallbreak at all.

I said that the AV set was bulky. I was clearly talking about the band set when I said that its bulk was overrated.

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

Keep Azu in A+ imo. It is easily one of the more bulkier physical attackers with an amazing typing. Weak to only 3 things, with most of them being uncommon typings, this guy is a monster. Greninja died, MVenu is seeing less usage, MGyara is seeing more, etc.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 320-378 (90.9 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Its CB set is amazing. Ferro doesn't want to switch into it in fear of Superpower, as it OHKOs with rocks iirc and gives free roam for Azu (with a bit of Iron Barbs damage, of course.) It's checks/counters are seeing much less usage also, like MVenu and Amoongus. With a great check for Keldeo (mind the scald) MGyara, and a whole other amount of things it threatens with its CB set and its AV set, it is one of the greats in OU and is one of the pinnacles of BO.

Adding on to this, its CB set has little to no switchins, really. And so what if only one set or two is good? Look at MSab and MMeta! They run basically the same sets: MSab runs Recovery, WoW, Dpulse/Shadow Ball and CM. MMeta runs Dual STABS+Hammer Arm and a filler (Ice Punch, GK, etc.) They are both S ranks. Azu may not be the best A+ rank, but the meta is in its favor.

Also, It's a fairy type with an amazing STAB move... Something that can take on Sableye in its mega form. Also, something to note is that most Fairies are weak to Fire types, most notably Heatran. Since Azu has Water STAB, Heatran and other Fire types cant switch into it, while things like Clefable and Sylveon cant do much.

Sure, you should only use Azu for CB and maybe AV, but the meta is in its favor right now. This thing is an underrated threat, and once it gets "noticed" people will prepare for it.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

AM Edit: Removed this.

That said, I'm kind of iffy on Azumarill's ranking. It's only viable set is probably CB now, since AV lost it's niche with Greninja going and BD is easily beaten by the likes of Waters, Dragons, Grasses etc. However it's typing and bulk and lack of switch-ins does give it the merit of checking Keldeo, Megados. Immense power+bulk+typing=good :]

Also, Manaphy should stay A. Rain has become an incredibly potent playstyle, and it completely decimates stall, whilst it's bulk and coverage let's it do quite well against balanced builds as well. Gothitelle+Manaphy is a nice core that I've found, with Goth getting rid of Mega Venu, Amoonguss, Ferrothorn for Manaphy (I run E-ball).

Not sure about the others, but Togekiss to B sounds about right and Victini has so much power <3

 

[Prinz]

And then you are better using M-Latias for a CM set.

There is not a single team that is better if you are using only M-Latios than using regular Latios and another mega, or just using another mega, or heck even just Latios.

Is like using Poliwrath or M-Steelix when Keldeo and M-Aggron are around, but IMO this is worse because this is a situation of a Mega being outclassed by even its regular form in some sets, and M-Latias.

Even C rank pokes have better niches than M-Latios(Dugtrio for example) or at least are more viable.

They are different mons tbh, CM Latios is more of a stallbreaker, while CM Latias is a bulky setup sweeper that needs some support to put work on a team, also CM Latios is most used in HO / bulky offense teams while Latias is more used on more defensive oriented team. CM Latias is of course better because of the better bulk etc and she has more utility overall as well, but Latios isn't outclassed by her though, they are just different mons with different roles, and that usually are in different kind of teams too.

 

[procrastinat]

That said, I'm kind of iffy on Azumarill's ranking. It's only viable set is probably CB now, since AV lost it's niche with Greninja going and BD is easily beaten by the likes of Waters, Dragons, Grasses etc. However it's typing and bulk and lack of switch-ins does give it the merit of checking Keldeo, Megados. Immense power+bulk+typing=good :]

How does Greninja leaving make AV Azumarill worse? With Gunk Shot and some attack investment, Greninja could OHKO 252/4 Azumarill. If anything, Gren's banishment made AV better.

I haven't been around for a while, so please correct me if AV Azumarill started running a different spread specifically for Gunk Shot.

 

[MANNAT]

AV azu may be its worst set, but there are certain mons that it allows azu to take 1v1. However, the band azumarill set is an extremely versatile set that can destroy many top metagame threats. BD can be set up against many OU mons that include; Keldeo (a specs hydro does 50% on a max roll), Heatran (252 spatk flash cannons does same as specs hydro from keld), CB Dragonite (locked into dragon move), and others. After it is set up, only bulky mons that resist both of its STAB moves can really stop it cold, and some fast water resists can take an aqua jet and KO, but everything else gets destroyed by the set after it sets up with its fantastic typing. It may not be as good at belly drumming as cawmodore from CAP, but it is an excellent belly drum set that is definitely worthy of being A+. Azumarill has two excellent sets that are A+ rank sets, and one niche set, so it is an excellent mon that has several different sets. If you guess the wrong set, then you could end up getting burned by the set that you didn't think about.

 

[FaZeBoo]

Now even though this may seem biased, I feel that weavile should be in B+. Its not a huge change, and I'm not asking for it to fly into A rank because it gets walled by things like rocky helmet ferro and skarm, but not many offensive mons can come in on a knock off, or hell, not many walls want to either. Weavile gets a pretty good moveset, with fake out, knock off, ice punch, icicle crash, ice shard, and all of its fighting coverage moves. It hits like a truck, not to mention it has a base speed of 125. Not even certain scarfers can outspeeed weavile, like magnezone or ttar. and even things like scarfchomp and scarf mence get crippled by an ice shard, not to mention prior damage.
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 343-406 (96 - 113.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 395-468 (119.3 - 141.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Even without orb, with something like sash, they still take massive damage.
252 Atk Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 304-360 (91.8 - 108.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 264-312 (73.9 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
With prior damage, I feel that weavile is one of the best offensive powerhouses in the metagame, so again I ask for Weavile for B+

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

I do agree with Weavile going up to B+. It is probably one of the more anti meta mons in the meta. Few things can stop it, and with a sexy speed tier with a decent Attack stat is really good. With Priority for Lando T, Ice STAB, Low Kick, and Knock off, this thing is the jack of all trades. Although it has a bit of troubles against BO, this guy still shreds most teams with Azu and Keldeo eliminated. HO has trouble switching into this guy, and at most times has to sack something.

It also has Taunt, too. But, Knock Off is usually better on this. This is probably one of the best speedy Knock Off pokemon in the meta.

Sadly, it has a few problems. It likes to revenge kill a lot, and it cant if there is SR out. Otherwise, there are other things, like horrible defensive typing, bad bulk, and more. I just think its better than B rank.

Edit: 100th post :3

 

[Magcargo]

Scizor to A-
Its CB set is great in the current metagame. Checks a wide variety of threats including mega altaria, Clefable, Latias, Diancie, Celebi and Gengar. U-turn is great for momentum and Pursuit is a nice tool to pick off Latios / Latias and allows Scizor to pair well with mons like Keldeo and Landorus. Also has a viable SD set, but I can't comment on that set as I haven't used it.

Lucario to C+
Personally I would drop this mon lower, but for now C+ will suffice. Suffers from a huge amount of 4MSS, as it wants to run Ice Punch, Crunch, Bullet Punch, and Iron Tail on the same set. This causes it to be checked by threats such as Gliscor, Landorus-T, Diancie, Mew, or Mega Venusaur depending on what coverage move it runs. Its not as good against stall teams as it was in XY because mons like Mega Sableye and Mega Slowbro easily check it. Extremespeed isn't as good as it was in XY either as Mega Metagross, a common mon on offensive teams, resist it. Lucario is also pretty frail, which can be detrimental when trying to set up SDs.

 

[big goon]

Nominating Shedinja for Unranked--->D Rank

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are highly mediocre in the OU metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it. These Pokemon exert a poor presence in the metagame.

Shedinja seems to fit this description pretty well, it needs a massive amount of support but with that support it does wall a lot of stuff, notably most fairies and all mega metagross sets. Its niche as a pivot and late game cleaner should be recognized, but definitely not any higher than D.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Nominating Shedinja for Unranked--->D Rank

Shedinja seems to fit this description pretty well, it needs a massive amount of support but with that support it does wall a lot of stuff, notably most fairies and all mega metagross sets. Its niche as a pivot and late game cleaner should be recognized, but definitely not any higher than D.

No

Shedinja requires intensive hazard control, and even when given that it doesn't really wall much because plenty of stuff has rock/flying/fire/dark/ghost/toxic/wisp/sand stream/leech seed/rocky helm/iron barbs/rough skin/etc., and Shedinja has the problem of actually doing something back to its opponent.

Don't take the definition of D rank rigidly: a pokemon in D rank should at least be useful in OU

 

[AM]

Alright so I'm really trying to find the legitimate logic in why people want Lucario to drop cause there hasn't been a whole lot except for pointing out flaws that don't reflect its real capabilities. The notion that it has 4MSS is an over exaggeration when it all it needs is Close Combat, Extremespeed, Swords Dance, and whatever coverage move that the team needs. So let's consider that the 3rd option doesn't make Lucario as linear as some have been making it out to be in this thread. First off it's a cleaner, it's not suppose to be setting up on M-Metagross of all things rofl, like come on people. Checked by M-Diancie? Last time I remembered it doesn't like taking a Bullet Punch to the face on Lucarios' double priority variant so this is a shaky as hell checking you're talking about. Then you got the other coverage options that turns some of these defensive switch ins to liabilities anyways. Yeah so M-Sableye and M-Bro annoy it a bit, it's not like the 5 partners in the back aren't there to support it >_>. You guys need to look at this from a team player perspective, not one where it's a 1v1 in every single scenario. Its job is to clean first against weakened teams and after SD unless your resist is healthy, and when using Lucario effectively this isn't going to be the case, it's going to clean and it's going to do so pretty damn easily when you take into account the rocks and prior damage that is inevitable due to the nature of where Lucario resides on in HO. Lucarios not facing as much competition or is a liability to teams as it is being made out to be. A cleaner that's both SR resistant, Tspikes resistant, with access to 2 physical forms of priority with one bypassing the speed factor of dangerous threats like Talonflame, amongst coverage options to choose from is definitely not something I want to see in the C ranks.

 

[Scaler]

Ok so i would like to bring back up Sylveon because ive finally got time to write a detailed post on the subject.

Sylveon to B or B+

In the case of Sylveon the main sets people are used to are the Specs Set, CM/Baton Pass and the cleric set.Whilst im fairly inexperienced with the latter 2 sets i have been using the Specs set for quite a while now so i will focus on that.

Choice Specs Sylveon

244HP / 252spA / 12 Speed

(The 12 speed IV's are to outrun non invested Tyranitar)

Modest Nature

Item:Choice Specs

• Hyper Voice

• Psyshock/Shadow Ball

• Hidden Power Fire/Ground

• Baton Pass

Firstly for those who run Shadow Ball, can you give me a reason why to run it as i honestly dont see a point in using it over Baton Pass. Anything its super effective against Hyper Voice hits harder with the exceptions being Doublade and Gengar, The former is also 2hkoed by HP Fire/Ground and the latter being hit harder by Psyshock anyways. Baton Pass gives you the utility to predict switches and gives you the switch advantage due to speed tier against popular pokemon like Landorus-T and Manectric when they Volt Switch/U-Turn on you or of course if you predict that they will switch into Heatran or Ferrothorn you can bring in your counter after they have swapped.



The Specs Set is one of if not the best Special Wallbreaker set in the current meta due to Hyper Voice, Sylveons base 117 STAB move thanks to her ability pixilate that also goes through Substitute. Whilst most will argue that this set is outclassed by Mega Garde as Garde is faster, has a larger movepool and is not forced into a single move, Sylveon does hold some advantages over Mega Gardevoir.The most important thing to note is that of course it does not take up a mega slot. Sylveon also is able to hit a fair bit harder with Hyper Voice and due to its fairly good base Defensive stats (95/65/130) is able to function very effectively as either a primary or secondary special tank without any Special defence investment. This allows it to take both Special and Physical hits much better than Gardevoir (Mega) ever could whilst dishing out higher damage with Hyper Voice.

(2 quick examples)

• 252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 332-392 (109.2 - 128.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

• 252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 270-320 (88.8 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

• 252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 292-348 (82.9 - 98.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

• 252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 238-282 (67.6 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

In the case of Ferrothorn having the lower speed tier is much more beneficial as it allows Sylveon to either OHKO or 2HKO it with HP fire whilst Ferrothorn would OHKO Gardevoir with Gyro Ball

• 0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (99 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 288-342 (73.4 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

• 0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 422-498 (152.3 - 179.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Sylveon is also able to beat majority of the pokemon in the higher tier however a fair few come down to 50/50 matchups.
(Note the matchups ive listed are assuming both pokemon are on 100% hp and no crits).


S rank

Sableye (Mega) (Sylveon wins)

Keldeo (Sylveon OHKOs all sets. Keldeo can 2HKO with Specs Hydro Pump if Sylveon Switches in)

Metagross (Mega) (Metagross Wins)


A+ rank

Altaria (Mega)- (Sylveon beats all sets except D Dance if Altaria has a boost before Sylveon switches in)


Azumarill- (This matchup is a perfect example of a 50/50 matchup as whoever hits first wins this no matter what set is run Azumarill runs. if Azumarill has invested 98 or more EVs into Speed it wins. Neither can switch safely into the other)


Bisharp- (Bisharp wins unless it switches into a Hyper Voice or trys for a Sword Dance. Both these Pokemon OHKO each other.)


Charizard (X)- (Charizard OHKOes with Flare Blitz however is OHKOed if it switches in after Mega Evolving or Switching in pre Mega with Rocks up or 40% prior damage.)


Clefable- (Sylveon wins. Clefable is 2HKOed with 1 or less calm mind boost and can at best 3HKO Sylveon with a +1 boost).


Diancie (Mega)- (Sylveon wins OHKO with Hyper Voice compared to Diancies 2HKO with Diamond Storm)


Gengar- (50/50. Sylveon OHKOs with Psyshock or 2HKOes with Hyper Voice if Gengar Switchs in. Life Orb Gengar has a 65% chance of OHKOing with Sludge Wave if rocks are up.)


Gliscor- (Sylveon wins. OHKOes the physical defensive set or 2HKOes the Special Defensive set.)


Gyrados (Mega)- (Sylveon OHKOes with Hyper Voice and is 2HKOed by Waterfall. Gyrados wins with a Waterfall flinch or can OHKO with rocks up if it has already pulled off a Dragon Dance).


Heatran- (Heatran walls Sylveon completely unless Sylveon is running Hidden Power Ground which 2HKOes Heatran or OHKOes offensive heatran if not running Air Balloon).


Landorus-I- (Sylveon generally wins. OHKOes with Hyper Voice and is 2HKOed by Sludge Wave)


Landorus-T- (Sylveon OHKOes the Scarf Set and in return is 2HKOed by Earthquake. Sylveon also OHKOes the physical defensive set with rocks up. If the U-Turn is expected into something that can take a hit from Sylveon use Baton Pass instead to keep momentum)


Lopunny- (Lopunny has around a 50% chance of OHKOing with Fake Out +Return and is OHKOed back with Hyper Voice.)


Latios-(Sylveon wins. OHKOes with Hyper Voice and is 2HKOed by Psyshock).


Slowbro (Mega)- (Sylveon wins. 87.5% chance of OHKOing with Rocks up or a 2HKO if it boosts).


TalonFlame- (Talonflame offensive sets win with either a OHKO with choice band and rocks up or 2HKO without).


Thundurus- (Sylveon wins. OHKOes with Hyper Voice and Thundurus 3HKOes with thunderbolt)


Sylveon does have some flaws however. It is walled completely by Chansey and Blissey and Depending on which HP it is running Ferrothorn, Special Defensive Mega Scizor and Heatran can wall it very effectively. It is also locked in to a single move which makes it fairly easy to take advantage of however Hyper Voice is by no means a bad move to be locked into allowing Sylveon to 2HKO most pokemon that resist it or you can even use baton pass to keep momentum if you suspect they will switch to something that walls your set.

All in all i feel Sylveon is a very solid pick in the current metagame and would not be out of place in B+ or the A- Rank.

 

[Backburst]

So why does it seem that everyone petitions for Sylveon, sitting in B-, to jump 2-3 ranks due to a set that become a lot less threatening with a Knock Off? Yes, Choice specs and it's special bulk make it very nice on paper, but when you start playing and you realize it can only come in on a resisted hit or predicted switch, it starts being dead weight. Especially since the meta is very physical right now, switching in a slow, naturally specially defensive mon just doesn't cut it. You can't exploit how bulky it normally is because you need the offensive ev's, and with defensive steel types being all the rage right now to stop fairy/dragon spam, a player can easily take 30 second to calc the damage and figure out your if your cleric or specs from a single Hyper Voice to his Ferrothorn. Status, hazards, and resisted hits also make it much easier to get into kill range, due to the amount of switching you do.

I'm indifferent to if it moves up, but at least move it up in increments. Don't just nom shit to the A's just cause if you get it in for free it does work.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

I'm sorry if my post was a bit confusing, what I meant was that AV Azu lost it's main niche in the transition from XY to ORAS, with Greninja, it's main Pokemon that it was meant to be an offensive check to, got Gunk Shot, and then was subsequently banned to Ubers. I don't know if AV azu is still effective on the ORAS meta though, since I haven't seen it anywhere and haven't used it.

 

[Eckleburg]

Other question: Why would you use Psyshock over Shadow Ball? The only good reason is M-Venusaur, because other poison types aren't that common (in case of Gengar, Shadow Ball is super effective, too. Just sayin', because of your aforementioned calcs), and fighting types don't like Hyper Voice either. Hyper Voice, Shadow Ball, HP Ground/Fire, Baton Pass/Psyshock - this is the most reasonable Specs Set from Sylveon so far.

Shadow Ball, because Shadow Ball is a good call against switch-ins like Mega-Metagross, or other Steel/Psych Pokémon like Jirachi, Bronzong etc.

Yes, M-Venusaur -is- a problem for Sylveon, but hitting Mega-Metagross hard, especially now, in this meta, where Metagross is everywhere, is much more important, IMO.

 

[bludz]

I'm sorry if my post was a bit confusing, what I meant was that AV Azu lost it's main niche in the transition from XY to ORAS, with Greninja, it's main Pokemon that it was meant to be an offensive check to, got Gunk Shot, and then was subsequently banned to Ubers. I don't know if AV azu is still effective on the ORAS meta though, since I haven't seen it anywhere and haven't used it.

It is quite effective.

Also going to agree with Backburst about nominating stuff to move up multiple ranks at once. Unless there's a big change (i.e. Serperior getting Contrary) or a new and innovative set is discovered then one rank at a time is fine IMO

 

[FrocoTerra]

Seconding Sylveon to B+/A-. The post above listed the strengths of the Specs set but the Cleric/Baton Pass sets are also very useful. While Clefable is also a very good cleric it can only invest in special or physical defense as its base stats are too low to invest in both. Sylveon, however, can invest fully into physical Defense (or 220+ which is the Smogon recommendation iirc) as its special defense is really good anyway. It hits much harder with Hyper Voice over Moonblast as well. The downside is that it has no instant recovery with Soft-Boiled but Wish-Protect is fine in a cleric role to heal up teammates as well as being able to protect to get more leftovers.

 

[Kurona]

Woah frens; Sylveon's rad as hell and all but A- is way too high for it lol.
It has way too many flaws holding it back in slowness, frailty and a really damn big weakness to steel in the meta/scizor infested meta that really doesn't make it that splashable. In addition it only has one really usable set (cleric is lol), so A- is really pushing it.
It definitely needs a rise as B- is dumb for it but B seems solid for it as it is atm. A- is just... wow

 

[Scaler]

Other question: Why would you use Psyshock over Shadow Ball? The only good reason is Venusaur, because other poison types aren't that common (in case of Gengar, Shadow Ball is super effective too, btw. Just sayin', because of your calcs), and fighting types don't like Hyper Voice. Hyper Voice, Shadow Ball, HP Ground/Fire, Baton Pass/Psyshock - this is the most reasonable Specs Set from Sylveon so far.

And yeah, Shadow Ball, because Shadow Ball is a good call against switch-ins like Mega-Metagross, or other Steel/Psych Pokémon like Jirachi, etc.

I prefer Psyshock as it gives something strong to hit poison types such as Mega Venasaur, Gengar,Tentacruel and Mega Beedrill. Most poision types arent common but honestly Psyshock is more of a filler move as the only moves you will ever really use is Hyper Voice and Hidden Power due to Sylveons fairly limited offensive movepool. I can see the merits in Shadow Ball but i just feel Psyshock does its job better.

 

[Scaler]

Woah frens; Sylveon's rad as hell and all but A- is way too high for it lol.
It has way too many flaws holding it back in slowness, frailty and a really damn big weakness to steel in the meta/scizor infested meta that really doesn't make it that splashable. In addition it only has one really usable set (cleric is lol), so A- is really pushing it.
It definitely needs a rise as B- is dumb for it but B seems solid for it as it is atm. A- is just... wow

Personally i dont see it rising above B+ anytime soon even a simple rise to B would be great. I just feel B- is underselling it a fair bit. With the A- nomination im not really for it but i remember that when there was a discussion on it a little while ago just after the greninja ban some people were calling for it to rise to A- so i just added that in.

Sylveon can deal quite effectively with majority of the steels that are popular atm OHKOing Scizor or Mega Scizor with HP Fire on the switch and 2HKOing Ferrothorn or Heatran if running the right Hidden Power. The same can be said for both Megagross and Jirachi but honestly i would never keep it in on these two. It is far from frail being able to take a hit from most physical sweepers or scarfers as long as they are not super effective hits and OHKO back and can tank pretty much anything on the special side. It does have the problem of no recovery on the specs set but this can be somewhat alleviated with a Wish/Heal Bell cleric on your team.

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 232-274 (59.1 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 252-297 (64.2 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

192+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 288-339 (73.4 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 232-274 (59.1 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 300-355 (76.5 - 90.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Master B8s]

I don't think sylveon should rise to B+. From practice, that 65 base defense really hinders it. It needs a slow volt switch/u-turn, or a free switch or else it has to take an attack on the switch, then another attack since its speed is so slow. Also, yes it's hyper voice is super strong, but it's other attacks are quite mediocre if they aren't super effective, so being locked into a move that isn't hyper voice can be extremely hurtful. Example HP ground doesn't even OHKO Heatran, so even if the switch is predicted, the Heatran can just switch out and gain momentum forcing sylveon out. Sylveon is a great wallbreaker but not on par with the B+ mons and shouldnt move up.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Yeah, I agree with Kurona in Sylveon deserving a rise. It's specs wallbreaking set has no switch-ins, I mean even Hyper Voice has a 50/50 chance of 2hkoing Megagross after rocks, guaranteed if running GK and Naive. B rank sounds about right imo.