Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100

[trc]

Also we will rank Pokemon by viability, not by which tier they are in. If Ambipom somehow attained OU usage, it still woudn't be ranked. It's a completely arbitrary restriction. The same with Pokemon receiving analyses.

 

[TFL]

Or we can just only rank mons with analyses.

I only say that because many mons that don't have analyses are constantly having their viability questioned (people theorymon a lot of low rank mons into the thread when they are not effective in practice) and I believe it's something that has been done in the past.

 

[Voltage]

I only say that because many mons that don't have analyses are constantly having their viability questioned (people theorymon a lot of low rank mons into the thread when they are not effective in practice) and I believe it's something that has been done in the past.

But just because something doesn't have an analysis now doesn't mean it isn't OU viable. A lot of the low ranked mons may not have analyses, but are still viable in OU and it would be just very inefficient to not include mons that could be threats in OU despite not having an analyses.

 

[FrocoTerra]

I'd like to nominate Bisharp for S rank. The thing just puts in so much work against just about everything outside of Sableye, Lopunny, Keldeo and Conkeldurr. Of everything in S- or A+ Rank, only physically defensive Gliscor (after its Toxic Orb is activated), Mega Gyarados (obviously not before mega-evolving), Mega Sableye Mega Lopunny and Keldeo can stand a chance against it without losing very large amounts of health. The hard checks, Lopunny, Keldeo and Sableye take a really large amount of damage at +2, if it switches into a Defog or something. That's another thing: the usage of Talonflame, Charizards, Thundurus, Mega Pinsir, Mega Aerodactyl and Tornadus-T (all the things up to A- that are weak to rocks) are severely limited, as they don't want to take rocks damage but just the presence of Bisharp in the opposing team is too much of a threat to Defog most of the time. Bisharp's pursuit trapping abilities, especially on the Latis, Celebi and Gengar, means that quite often, you simply can't risk leaving one of them in to dish off a hit. It's such a meta-defining mon, literally erasing Sticky Web, and limiting Initimidate heaps.

 

[En]

I second moving bisharp up to S rank. In the transition between XY and ORAS it has gotten a lot better and doesn't have to run swords dance because so many teams prefer defog over rapid at the moment. It's one of if not the best pursuit users in the tier while also packing sucker punch as priority. These two moves combined can cause major mind games for the opponent. It doesn't have to forgoe STAB moves for coverage because steel + dark has phenomenal neutral coverage. It can run an all-out attacker set with life orb, black glasses to great effect. It's one of the best checks to lati@s. It resists rocks and has the utility of "blocking" defog. It's typing is one of the best and only has one real crippling weakness in fighting. However the only fighting types that can really deal with bisharp are conkeldurr, keldeo and breloom.

With all this I see bisharp as an incredibly potent threat that has only gotten better over time. It's just top effective not to praise. It's pros greatly overshadow its weaknesses and I feel at this point we should bring it back up to the position of S-rank.

Bisharp for S

 

[bb skarm]

Hey can we move Azelf to B? It's the best suicide lead available atm since it outspeeds every other rock setter (except for stupid shit like Stealth Rock Mega Aero) and pulls off a quick Taunt, and can somewhat negate Rapid Spin/defog due to it usually being able to beat most defoggers with taunt and most spinners with Fire Blast, which is really a great asset [Fire Blast] for it as you've seen Garchomp use it commonly to beat most opposing hazard setters.

Not much to say about Azelf; it anti-leads by stopping opposing stealth rock setters and can almost always set them up guaranteed. It's pretty much the best hyper offense lead at the current moment, and that in itself should not leave as low as B-, B rank for Azelf

also I disagree with bisharp for s but i'll speak about that later

 

[Thisbemyalt]

I'd like to nominate Bisharp for S rank. The thing just puts in so much work against just about everything outside of Sableye, Lopunny, Keldeo and Conkeldurr. Of everything in S- or A+ Rank, only physically defensive Gliscor (after its Toxic Orb is activated), Mega Gyarados (obviously not before mega-evolving), Mega Sableye Mega Lopunny and Keldeo can stand a chance against it without losing very large amounts of health. The hard checks, Lopunny, Keldeo and Sableye take a really large amount of damage at +2, if it switches into a Defog or something. That's another thing: the usage of Talonflame, Charizards, Thundurus, Mega Pinsir, Mega Aerodactyl and Tornadus-T (all the things up to A- that are weak to rocks) are severely limited, as they don't want to take rocks damage but just the presence of Bisharp in the opposing team is too much of a threat to Defog most of the time. Bisharp's pursuit trapping abilities, especially on the Latis, Celebi and Gengar, means that quite often, you simply can't risk leaving one of them in to dish off a hit. It's such a meta-defining mon, literally erasing Sticky Web, and limiting Initimidate heaps.

Bisharp is very good however most of the reasons you gave for it raising are 50/50s which is bisharps problem. Do you bring it in on a potential defog that could easily be a LO EQ? Pursuit and sucker are the biggest 50/50s in existence bisharp's best abilities rely on winning 50/50s as the mons it aims to pursuit trap either can KO or KO with low amounts of prior damage or a mon it hits with sucker could sub/setup. Overall no S rank mon should rely on 50/50s so I say Keep Bisharp Where It Is

 

[TFL]

But just because something doesn't have an analysis now doesn't mean it isn't OU viable. A lot of the low ranked mons may not have analyses, but are still viable in OU and it would be just very inefficient to not include mons that could be threats in OU despite not having an analyses.

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As long as you build a team with sufficient support that allows the 'mon to use that niche, I don't see why that doesn't consitute being viable. - Josh Morales

Competitive Pokemon is just that: competitive, with an intent to win in the most reliable and definite way possible. Why build a team with more support than necessary to supplement a niche that can be fulfilled in more efficient ways? By doing so, you are guaranteed to sacrifice move slots, team slots, and live plays that could have been better spent accomplishing the same goal in a better manner. Using ____ introduces disadvantages into your team that generally cannot be made up, and as an individual Pokemon, ____ does not carry enough niches, surprise value, or potential synergy to set it apart from Pokemon that can achieve similar things with better efficiency, more consistent results, and less reliance on intensive support. - CyclicCompound

There's a lot of things that technically have a niche that shouldn't get an analysis. Aromatisee and Lickylicky are clerics that can't get Taunted but doesn't constitute an analysis what so ever. You can only use the argument of having a niche so much if there's actually some key merit to it. If the support necessary is more detrimental to the point you're better off using something else, then why bother using it?...

Having a niche does not always make the pokemon automatically viable. It needs to be worth using, too.

 

[theV8man]

Bisharp is very good however most of the reasons you gave for it raising are 50/50s which is bisharps problem. Do you bring it in on a potential defog that could easily be a LO EQ? Pursuit and sucker are the biggest 50/50s in existence bisharp's best abilities rely on winning 50/50s as the mons it aims to pursuit trap either can KO or KO with low amounts of prior damage or a mon it hits with sucker could sub/setup. Overall no S rank mon should rely on 50/50s so I say Keep Bisharp Where It Is

I love bisharp, but there was a time where it deserved to be S rank, and it's not now. That time was back in the glorious days of the Bisharp - Deoxys - Aegislash core, when the red ranger was dominating the offensive meta. Even though its best friends have been banished to ubers, Bisharp is still amazing, doing work against literally any playstyle and paring very well with anything that sets hazards. Its Sucker Punch is crazy, nearly OHKO'ing Megagross, it Pursuit traps, and wallbreaks. Its stabs are just so awesome. With SD it sweeps balance and some stall teams by itself. However, the main thing holding Bisharp back at the moment I's say is the prevalence of fighting types, like Lopunny and Keldeo, that can check it so well (although they rarely want to switch in). There's also the rise of Chesnaught. Honestly if it wasn't for the fighting types that are found on so many teams Bisharp could easily be S. It's definitely one of the best A+ mons though.

Also, to the person saying Sableye was a problem, max defensive mega sableye gets 2HKO's by Iron Head with a bit of prior damage with SR. Not to hard considering it doesn't have passive recovery of any kind.

 

[Kurona]

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Having a niche does not always mean the pokemon is automatically viable. I needs to be worth using, too.

Uh, yes, but there's not going to be an analysis for a Pokémon who is good in the current meta but hasn't been found yet.

 

[Hootie]

Also I'd like to add that 50/50s forced on Bisharp are usually unfavorable for it unlike most 50/50 scenarios since predicting wrong usually results in its death. That and Bisharp has Breloom stat snydrome where its attack is the only thing that stands out while it's defenses and speed are mediocre at best which IMO holds it back quite bit. Sucker Punch mitigates the speed issue but, in general it is very easy to take advantage of since it's predictable. He's an amazing Mon no doubt and causes a lot of mind games, but he doesn't have an ease of use compared to the other S rank mons.

 

[Clone]

Uh, yes, but there's not going to be an analysis for a Pokémon who is good in the current meta but hasn't been found yet.

you completely missed his point. many of the mons here have "niches" that are so specific that in reality, are not actually worth using on the majority of viable teams.

 

[Temporelucis]

Pangoro ---> C/C+

I've been using this lately as a stallbreaker and I'm pretty happy with the results.
Pangoro takes on stall really well, to differentiate itself from other Fighting type pokemon that set up (i.e. Mega Gallade, Hawlucha) it's able to OHKO Mega Sableye with a +2 scrappy drain punch, kill fairies with gunk shot and spam STAB knock off. If Unaware clefable is a problem to your team you can also run Mold Breaker and destroy clefable at +2 with gunk shot ignoring Unaware.
It forces things like Bisharp to switch out and takes care of bulky psychic types, it's not great in HO but it does decent in balance.
That's why I think Pangoro should be at least a C ranked pokemon.

Calcs:

Fist Plate

+2 252 Atk Fist Plate Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Fist Plate Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 384-452 (109 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Fist Plate Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 752-888 (117.1 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Fist Plate Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 350-414 (115.1 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 444-524 (112.6 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Fist Plate Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 542-638 (140.7 - 165.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celebi: 440-522 (108.9 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Fist Plate Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 219-258 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Sylveon: 490-578 (124.3 - 146.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 194-230 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 159-188 (43.6 - 51.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 217-256 (71.6 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 224-264 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 178-210 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Lum Berry

+2 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 174-205 (52 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 320-378 (90.9 - 107.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 626-740 (97.5 - 115.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 294-348 (96.7 - 114.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 444-524 (112.6 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 452-534 (117 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celebi: 440-522 (108.9 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 181-214 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Sylveon: 490-578 (124.3 - 146.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 194-230 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 159-188 (43.6 - 51.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 217-256 (71.6 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 224-264 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 178-210 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

EDIT: You get +2 using Swords Dance

 

[Kurona]

you completely missed his point. many of the mons here have "niches" that are so specific that in reality, are not actually worth using on the majority of viable teams.

I got his point and I generally agree with what I've come to call the unrank revolution, but the way he was putting it forward seemed to imply that we couldn't nominate anything for a rank unless it had an analysis, even if it did turn out to be very good and not just some incredibly niche mon no-one would ever consider for a team.

 

[TFL]

I got his point and I generally agree with what I've come to call the unrank revolution, but the way he was putting it forward seemed to imply that we couldn't nominate anything for a rank unless it had an analysis, even if it did turn out to be very good and not just some incredibly niche mon no-one would ever consider for a team.

We keep going through this cycle of bad mons being nominated based purely on theormon and not their actual performance and then having a chunk of said mons removed in a much later update, only to have more trashmons that aren't worth using being nominated right after. It is happening in the next update: close to 10 will be moved to unranked, and unless something is done, it will continue to happen.

I'm not saying every mon without an analysis shouldn't be ranked: There will be exceptions, but that shouldn't be the standard. Because this current standard is not one that works.

 

[AM]

Guys chill out with the whole unrank revolution or w/e we're calling it these days. trc already stated what's going down in his most recent posts. When that post is up there's going to be a lot of obvious changes to solidify the lower rankings a bit more that the team put into place. TFL has a valid point about stuff being based on a bunch of theorymon hence why it's being re-worked so we don't have people nominating their favorite Poliwag or w/e people are raving over and using arguments based on theory.

Also we know what Bisharp does, it catches Defogs. You know what it doesn't like catching though? Draco Meteors by Latios. If you're gonna explain a nom whether it be to rise or drop apply relevant meta-game information. You're not gonna impress anyone or get a point across by stating the obvious in regards to a set and what it does. Anyways carry on.

 

[Voltage]

We keep going through this cycle of bad mons being nominated based purely on theormon and not their actual performance and then having a chunk of said mons removed in a much later update, only to have more trashmons that aren't worth using being nominated right after. It is happening in the next update: close to 10 will be moved to unranked, and unless something is done, it will continue to happen.

I'm not saying every mon without an analysis shouldn't be ranked: There will be exceptions, but that shouldn't be the standard. Because this current standard is not one that works.

But isn't that how the metagame works? When the meta shifts, mons that were once good fall or rise, and with the case of mons in the lower ranks, they might shift in and out of viability. It's just a fact. Something like Catcurne might be good right now, but later on, as the meta shifts, it might not be as good. Sure it might seem pointless to have added it in the first place, but the reason I was even remotely added into the list is because it was at least somewhat viable. It just seems really backward to me to exclude mons that aren't even remotely usable.

EDIT: Got ninja'd by AM. We can drop this lol

 

[Hootie]

Tbh I think the lower tiers are way too crowded as it stands and multitude of Pokemon in the C ranks have me scratching my head thinking "Why is something like Mega Aggron even here?" just as example. Can't wait for the next update as the list is bloated and definitely needs to be cleaned up of all of the crap that resides within it. Lately too many niche Mons have been posted (Archeops lol). These Mons that are good for that one specific should never be listed in something like D rank as it insinuates new users that these Mons have use when they really don't outside of their specific team they appeared on.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

Pangoro ---> C/C+

I've been using this lately as a stallbreaker and I'm pretty happy with the results.
Pangoro takes on stall really well, to differentiate itself from other Fighting type pokemon that set up (i.e. Mega Gallade, Hawlucha) it's able to OHKO Mega Sableye with a +2 scrappy drain punch, kill fairies with gunk shot and spam STAB knock off. If Unaware clefable is a problem to your team you can also run Mold Breaker and destroy clefable at +2 with gunk shot ignoring Unaware.
It forces things like Bisharp to switch out and takes care of bulky psychic types, it's not great in HO but it does decent in balance.
That's why I think Pangoro should be at least a C ranked pokemon.

Calcs:

Fist Plate

+2 252 Atk Fist Plate Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Fist Plate Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 384-452 (109 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Fist Plate Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 752-888 (117.1 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Fist Plate Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 350-414 (115.1 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 444-524 (112.6 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Fist Plate Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 542-638 (140.7 - 165.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celebi: 440-522 (108.9 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Fist Plate Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 219-258 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Sylveon: 490-578 (124.3 - 146.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 194-230 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 159-188 (43.6 - 51.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 217-256 (71.6 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 224-264 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 178-210 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Lum Berry

+2 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 174-205 (52 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 320-378 (90.9 - 107.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 626-740 (97.5 - 115.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 294-348 (96.7 - 114.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 444-524 (112.6 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 452-534 (117 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celebi: 440-522 (108.9 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 181-214 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Sylveon: 490-578 (124.3 - 146.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 194-230 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 159-188 (43.6 - 51.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 217-256 (71.6 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 224-264 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 178-210 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

EDIT: You get +2 using Swords Dance

Not sure how viable this is as Pangoro is very slow and lacks priority, this set also foregoes its biggest draw in parting shot.

It just gets checked by far too many things to make an SD set worth it IMO, especially since CB Hammer Arm already OHKOs Mega Sableye.

 

[ShadesOfSolomon]

Not sure how viable this is as Pangoro is very slow and lacks priority, this set also foregoes its biggest draw in parting shot.

It just gets checked by far too many things to make an SD set worth it IMO, especially since CB Hammer Arm already OHKOs Mega Sableye.

Pangoro doesn't even need a CB to OHKO Megaeye:

252+ Atk Pangoro Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 258-306 (84.8 - 100.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Agree that a SD set is far from optimal, but I've been using Pangoro regularly since the ORAS metagame started, and IMO, it's more than deserving of a C+ ranking.

 

[Steel With It]

I have to agree on a raise for the panda; Scrappy Fighting STAB is huge in a meta with Mega Sableye, and it separates itself from Mega Lopunny by not taking up the Mega slot and packing that delicious Parting Shot. Mega Lopunny obviously outclasses it otherwise, but hey, we're talking about a raise to C or C+, not to A or A+. =P

 

[bludz]

There's been some talk of it and I'd just like to support Volcarona to B+

I've been using it lately and I think it does well in the current metagame because not a lot of teams are that prepared for it. It really doesn't need that much support besides defog, and it works great paired with physical wallbreakers.

 

[ShadesOfSolomon]

I have to agree on a raise for the panda; Scrappy Fighting STAB is huge in a meta with Mega Sableye, and it separates itself from Mega Lopunny by not taking up the Mega slot and packing that delicious Parting Shot. Mega Lopunny obviously outclasses it otherwise, but hey, we're talking about a raise to C or C+, not to A or A+. =P

IMO, it's not really fair or apt to compare Megalop to Pangoro. They share Scrappy fighting STAB, but not much else aside. Pangoro lacks the blistering speed and the wealth of support options facilitated by perfect STAB coverage, and is in no ways as splashable, but does have distinct advantages - some of them relatively minor (superior bulk and a 4x dark resist), and some of them significant. Parting Shot can be tremendously useful in providing sweepers with setup opportunities, turning checks and counters into setup bait, and then there's its ability to hit fairies hard with gunk shot, which is a possible OHKO on Clefable after rocks. It's also able to run a quite effective defensive set, and has very, very few safe switch ins due to the combination of these traits.

 

[Albacore]

There was probably a point in ORAS when Bisharp could've been S rank, but that point has passed. Yes, it is completely devastating for unprepared teams to handle, but Bisharp is such a threat that few teams are truly unprepared for it. For a start, Keldeo is a given on a ton of teams specifically because it handles Bisharp. Rocky Helmet Garchomp, Hipowdon, Itemless WoW Talon... all of these are very popular Pokemon atm that beat or at least stop it from sweeping. And getting stuck into 50/50s with Sucker Punch is never nice, since Bisharp can end up losing matchups it should be able to win which makes it a little unreliable, especially when the opposing Pokemon carrying Substitute is a possibility to be considered (and running Sub on something is usually a good option on teams that are weak to Bisharp in the first place). Bisharp is very good, probably one of the best Pokemon in A+, but I can't really see it in S.

Totally agree with Azelf rising, being an offensive rocker which can set up rocks on Sableye while keeping its Sash is a pretty significant niche. If you're running full-on HO this is one of your only 2 good choices for a rock setter alongside Garchomp.

 

[BlueLobster]

I was going to bring up Pang rising, but I was waiting to see the next update. It's alot better now than before, it can check MegaEye with scrappy, run a standard banded set or even go scarfed. It's not the best, but way too good for all other C-'s, mostly as it isn't really outclassed by much in any of it's roles,, while most other C- mons are, while it has competition, it has some great niches over all of them. C seems right IMO.

It is also quite versitile, it can run a standard choiced set, LO sets, AV sets and even bulky pivot sets.