The diance would simply switch out a flying type... I-turn is not as safe as you might think, as their is something called "prediction" not to mention protect on diance...
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Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100
- Thread starter trc
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If there's both a flying-type left and a Diancie on the field then I wouldn't bring my Lando-T in in the first place. I'm really not liking how bias these arguments are; both sides seem to either assume the opponent is of a lesser skill level than them or the opposing Pokémon is on their own with no support.
Just saying, I strongly disagree with it dropping from S. Yeah, it isn't as good as MegaGross and MegaEye, but it's not a mega and can run offense or defense so is very splashable. All it's cons weren't enogh to keep it from S in XY, and it takes on MegaGross decently too with EQ if scarfed (can't take an ice punch).
Clefable and M.Lop aren't quite at S for me, Clef id too weak without a CM and while hard to play around, still isn't dominent enough for S IMO. M.Lop is great, but S is pushing it. It isn't splashable, only fits on HO and offense, and has a variety of common pokes it struggles against, including T-Flame, Lando-T (although Ice Punch beats defensive variants) and other M.Lop. Scarfers in general can deal a good chunk to it. It has mild 4MSS, with sub, ice punch, PuP (seen it before, but I hope I never see it again) Fake Out and Healing wish all needing to fit beside HJK/Drain Punch and Return. Lacking Ice Punch means it struggles V defensive Lando. lacking sub means it can be statused easier V stall ( but other than Skarm IDK what can status it that can't without). lacking helaing wish can kill momentum if on low health, while fake out is important to mega or take out weakened threats. Although it's options are useful, it can be annoying making builds for it. I don't support or massivly object if for S.
TL:DR: Lando-T to stay S for splashability and pivoting, as well as other reasons, while Clefable and M.Lop are fine in A+, due to Clef's mediocre offense pre CM and Lop's 4MSS as well as weakness to common pokes like T-Flame.
Clefable and M.Lop aren't quite at S for me, Clef id too weak without a CM and while hard to play around, still isn't dominent enough for S IMO. M.Lop is great, but S is pushing it. It isn't splashable, only fits on HO and offense, and has a variety of common pokes it struggles against, including T-Flame, Lando-T (although Ice Punch beats defensive variants) and other M.Lop. Scarfers in general can deal a good chunk to it. It has mild 4MSS, with sub, ice punch, PuP (seen it before, but I hope I never see it again) Fake Out and Healing wish all needing to fit beside HJK/Drain Punch and Return. Lacking Ice Punch means it struggles V defensive Lando. lacking sub means it can be statused easier V stall ( but other than Skarm IDK what can status it that can't without). lacking helaing wish can kill momentum if on low health, while fake out is important to mega or take out weakened threats. Although it's options are useful, it can be annoying making builds for it. I don't support or massivly object if for S.
TL:DR: Lando-T to stay S for splashability and pivoting, as well as other reasons, while Clefable and M.Lop are fine in A+, due to Clef's mediocre offense pre CM and Lop's 4MSS as well as weakness to common pokes like T-Flame.
Prediction works both ways, I don't see why people like to base their arguments about Lando-T on prediction, if we could always predict a mon then Greninja would not be broken.
I could say Talonflame Brave Bird is bad because I just can switch to Heatran, but in reality I will not always be in that spot, if we take other teammates into account and that you will always predict your opponent, then of course, Lando-T is not as good, but I don't see any difference in using that argument against other OU mons.
So in conclusion your argument is ''I always have a mon that checks it and I will always predict my opponent'', which is not a valid one, because as said previously it can be used against every mon.
If there is a valid argument that is not based in being able to always overpredict your opponent it would be great to avoid talking about the same thing over and over again.
Lando-T should stay S rank.
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Getting away from S-rank discussion for a bit because I'm a C-rank whore
C --> C-/D
I'm aware that this was moved down to C from C+ once Mega Sableye entered the scene and my reasoning will basically be along the same lines; but basically I don't feel it dropped enough. As AM stated on the last thread there's next to no reason to use Sableye and not Mega Sableye, especially since Prankster Will-O-Wisp is literally it's only niche. And even that can be fulfilled by Mega Sableye by refusing to not use Sablenite for a couple of turns, and even then Prankster works on the turn of Mega Evolution. Much as Sableye is my favourite Pokémon, it's Mega Evolution honestly murdered most every reason to use the base form. Unless someone can give me an example of a team where Base Sableye is used with another Mega Evolution - and where that team is not made infinitely better by chucking out said Mega and replacing it with Sablenite - I'm not seeing why my poor baby deserves to be up there with the likes of Infernape.
I'm aware that this was moved down to C from C+ once Mega Sableye entered the scene and my reasoning will basically be along the same lines; but basically I don't feel it dropped enough. As AM stated on the last thread there's next to no reason to use Sableye and not Mega Sableye, especially since Prankster Will-O-Wisp is literally it's only niche. And even that can be fulfilled by Mega Sableye by refusing to not use Sablenite for a couple of turns, and even then Prankster works on the turn of Mega Evolution. Much as Sableye is my favourite Pokémon, it's Mega Evolution honestly murdered most every reason to use the base form. Unless someone can give me an example of a team where Base Sableye is used with another Mega Evolution - and where that team is not made infinitely better by chucking out said Mega and replacing it with Sablenite - I'm not seeing why my poor baby deserves to be up there with the likes of Infernape.
Gravity team? try it if you want to use its base for that badly,lol.Getting away from S-rank discussion for a bit because I'm a C-rank whore
C --> C-/D
I'm aware that this was moved down to C from C+ once Mega Sableye entered the scene and my reasoning will basically be along the same lines; but basically I don't feel it dropped enough. As AM stated on the last thread there's next to no reason to use Sableye and not Mega Sableye, especially since Prankster Will-O-Wisp is literally it's only niche. And even that can be fulfilled by Mega Sableye by refusing to not use Sablenite for a couple of turns, and even then Prankster works on the turn of Mega Evolution. Much as Sableye is my favourite Pokémon, it's Mega Evolution honestly murdered most every reason to use the base form. Unless someone can give me an example of a team where Base Sableye is used with another Mega Evolution - and where that team is not made infinitely better by chucking out said Mega and replacing it with Sablenite - I'm not seeing why my poor baby deserves to be up there with the likes of Infernape.
Yeah I kind of agree with this, I think rank D is where it should be.
I dont have an opinion on anything being mentioned right now but I did see some people talk about the "opportunity cost" of using lando-t over lando-i. Im confident in saying that as of right now this gap people are speaking of is extremely minimal if not non-existent to myself at least. To be perfectly honest I find Lando-i more of a threat than Lando-T is because its able to punch these huge holes on teams with both a CM set and rock polish set at its disposable. The meta is just prepared for lando-t much more effectively than they are lando-i from what I've seen lately. If there's a case for moving lando-t down this is an aspect that needs to be taken into consideration as well.
I definitely agree that Landorus-T should drop to A+, this is because the meta has adapted and fat mons such as slowbro, ferrothorn hippowdon and gliscor are extremely common on balance which handle it easily. Gliscor and slowbro can repeatedly switch in while wearing land t down with stealth rock. Landorus t's SD sets are also less effective in the current metagame than gliscor due to being worn down easily and less defensive versatility giving it less time and opportunities to set up although gliscor lacks immediate power. On that note I think gliscor should go to A or A+ because the SD set is so versatile and be physically defensive to handle sand or spdef to beat gengar. It also possesses great coverage such as fire and ice fang to beat opposing gliscor and skarm and taunt to stop healing and hazards. Gliscor can also run baton pass on its SD set to set up potential sweeping opportunites for teammates.
leremyju
Banned deucer.
^thats from an offensive perspective. Defensive lando is also a very viable set, and scarf comes in and forces witches to the mentioned counters, where u can just u turn to the thing that counters it. Metagross doesn't exactly appreciate ferrothorn, slowbro, etc... Either
Purely by definition of S ranked, it can fulfill multiple roles and its weaknesses can be patched up by its traits such as knocking off items or u turning to gain momentum
Purely by definition of S ranked, it can fulfill multiple roles and its weaknesses can be patched up by its traits such as knocking off items or u turning to gain momentum
Slight nitpick, but unaware max def clef and quag are pretty solid counters (unless you outplay the hell and back with encore). That being said, I agree with your main point.
My argument was not that I am always better them my opponent so I therefore I can counter Landerus T. It was that you can't just always predict that the opponent will switch out, so the whole "Landrus can spam u-turn" is quite Invalid.
I've been pretty doubtful of Landorus-T's S rank worthiness for a while now, although it is a great pivot with great utility and is extremely splashable, it's hard for me to think of a good reason for it being ranked above certain A+ ranks, more specifically, Keldeo, Clefable and Heatran, pretty much the 3 best A+ ranks atm imo besides maybe Talonflame and Bisharp. All of these Pokemon provide great utility, check very dangerous threats, are able to outlast their checks, have a good amount of variety in the sets they run which slightly changes their checks, and are obscenely easy to fit on teams due to how much synergy they have with such a large portion of the metagame, but suffer from the fact that they are checked by a bunch of common Pokemon and that metagame is really prepared for them. And this all applies to Landorus-T too. Gliscor, Phys Def Garchomp, Hippowdon, Chensaught, all are becoming more and more common and can easily switch into Landorus-T. And yes, it can wear down its checks with U-Turn, but it's pretty darn easy to take advantage of that, with Pokemon like the aforementioned Rocky Helmet Garchomp, Ferrothorn, Rocky Helmet Alomomola and Slowbro, even stuff that can't switch into its other moves like Talonflame, Heatran, YZard, Volarona etc because Scarf Lando-T really dislikes having to click EQ or even worse, Stone Edge, since this causes a big loss of momentum which can be fatal to the point of being worth sacking your Talonflame to a Stone Edge from Scarf Lando-T if you're using an offensive team. Scarf Landorus-T wishes it could just spam U-Turn mindlessly, except in the current metagame, it can't really do that and that's a problem.
And yes, there's the physically defensive set, but that set also got a bit worse, mainly because of competition from Hippowdon and Garchomp, who have the distinction of being actually able to counter Bisharp which Landorus-T unfortunately cannot handle (this is doubly problematic for Lando-T since these two are great checks to the Scarf set). Yes, Lando-T does have U-Turn but it's so easy for a team to to be weak to Bisharp that running Garchomp over it is often worth it. There are other sets like double dance but those are not common and have to lose something important, usually the ability to pivot which is why Landorus-T is S rank in the first place.
So many teams just have no trouble handling Landorus-T since they have multiple Pokemon that can repeatedly eat up U-Turns and Lando can't chip them away as fast as it dies from repeatedly switching into attacks + SR. It can outlast its checks, but mainly the offensive ones, against defensive stuff like Hippowdon and Clefable it has a lot more trouble and also it isn't breaking Gliscor ever unless it runs HP Ice. As I said, I just don't really see what puts Landorus-T above the 3 other Pokemon I mentioned and on the same level as Metagross (which has an incredibly limited pool of checks), Sableye (which completely invalidates entire Pokemon and strategies) or even Lopunny (which can break past its checks with utility options like Encore or PuP without really losing anything). If Keldeo moves to S rank I can definitely see it stay in S because it's pretty much on par with Keldeo in general but assuming we don't decide to lower the standards of S rank I think should drop. At this point it would probably be a good idea to make Metagross and Sableye the only S ranks as has been suggested because they're clearly just above the rest.
Haven't seen much Celebi discussion so I would like to chime in : This thing is really good and I support it moving to A, it is very easy to fit on teams for multiple reasons : it handles huge threats like Keldeo, Lopunny, Manaphy and Mega-Slowbro, it has excellent synergy with a lot of very common Pokemon (Celebi+Keldeo+Heatran in particular may be the single best FWG core in the metagame since it holds its own against almost all of the tier), and can be tailored to beat what you want or carry whichever of the myriad support options benefit your team more. Nastypass and SDpass are brutal and can turn your revenge killer into an absolute juggernaut, but the LO set is also really solid and is a really effective lure since Heatran and Bisharp almost always feel safe switching into it. It's still quite rare on the ladder but higher-level players are starting to pick up on how good it is, as indicated by its 14% usage in SPL so far, so I imagine it'll get a lot more common on the ladder too since that's usually how these things work. The only thing possibly holding it back from being A is that the metagame is starting to adapt to it a little, I've seen quite a few HP Bug Keldeos (which is a really legitimate option) being used which sucks for Celebi since it's supposed to be a perfect counter to it. But that's not really different from Latios sometimes running HP Fire or Landorus-T sometimes running SD for Ferrothorn, defensive Grass types tend to get lured somewhat easily, but that doesn't detract too much from their great resistances, especially for Celebi who resists Water, Fighting, Ground, Psychic, and Electric, offensive types which range from "common" to "everywhere". A lot of people look at Celebi's weaknesses and are immediately turned off by it, but that's not what you should be looking at, you should be looking at what it resists, what it beats, and how it supports its team, and those are things it excels at.
And yes, there's the physically defensive set, but that set also got a bit worse, mainly because of competition from Hippowdon and Garchomp, who have the distinction of being actually able to counter Bisharp which Landorus-T unfortunately cannot handle (this is doubly problematic for Lando-T since these two are great checks to the Scarf set). Yes, Lando-T does have U-Turn but it's so easy for a team to to be weak to Bisharp that running Garchomp over it is often worth it. There are other sets like double dance but those are not common and have to lose something important, usually the ability to pivot which is why Landorus-T is S rank in the first place.
So many teams just have no trouble handling Landorus-T since they have multiple Pokemon that can repeatedly eat up U-Turns and Lando can't chip them away as fast as it dies from repeatedly switching into attacks + SR. It can outlast its checks, but mainly the offensive ones, against defensive stuff like Hippowdon and Clefable it has a lot more trouble and also it isn't breaking Gliscor ever unless it runs HP Ice. As I said, I just don't really see what puts Landorus-T above the 3 other Pokemon I mentioned and on the same level as Metagross (which has an incredibly limited pool of checks), Sableye (which completely invalidates entire Pokemon and strategies) or even Lopunny (which can break past its checks with utility options like Encore or PuP without really losing anything). If Keldeo moves to S rank I can definitely see it stay in S because it's pretty much on par with Keldeo in general but assuming we don't decide to lower the standards of S rank I think should drop. At this point it would probably be a good idea to make Metagross and Sableye the only S ranks as has been suggested because they're clearly just above the rest.
Haven't seen much Celebi discussion so I would like to chime in : This thing is really good and I support it moving to A, it is very easy to fit on teams for multiple reasons : it handles huge threats like Keldeo, Lopunny, Manaphy and Mega-Slowbro, it has excellent synergy with a lot of very common Pokemon (Celebi+Keldeo+Heatran in particular may be the single best FWG core in the metagame since it holds its own against almost all of the tier), and can be tailored to beat what you want or carry whichever of the myriad support options benefit your team more. Nastypass and SDpass are brutal and can turn your revenge killer into an absolute juggernaut, but the LO set is also really solid and is a really effective lure since Heatran and Bisharp almost always feel safe switching into it. It's still quite rare on the ladder but higher-level players are starting to pick up on how good it is, as indicated by its 14% usage in SPL so far, so I imagine it'll get a lot more common on the ladder too since that's usually how these things work. The only thing possibly holding it back from being A is that the metagame is starting to adapt to it a little, I've seen quite a few HP Bug Keldeos (which is a really legitimate option) being used which sucks for Celebi since it's supposed to be a perfect counter to it. But that's not really different from Latios sometimes running HP Fire or Landorus-T sometimes running SD for Ferrothorn, defensive Grass types tend to get lured somewhat easily, but that doesn't detract too much from their great resistances, especially for Celebi who resists Water, Fighting, Ground, Psychic, and Electric, offensive types which range from "common" to "everywhere". A lot of people look at Celebi's weaknesses and are immediately turned off by it, but that's not what you should be looking at, you should be looking at what it resists, what it beats, and how it supports its team, and those are things it excels at.
Just to add to the Celebi discussion, LO can be swapped with expert belt if you really want to lure Heatran and Bisharp. More importantly is how beneficial Natural Cure is to a defensive pokemon. Neing able to scout for T-wave from Clefable or bait a will-o from Rotom-W and know that on the switch it's like nothing ever happened is really good, especially on the passing sets. Personally, I find the physically defensive spread has a better match-up against the current meta due to both the current trend of physical sweepers being the biggest group of threats, and the fact that people underestimate it's bulk. They think a Knock-off will kill it from half health, and all of a sudden, you have a +2 Celebi at 10% hp ready to baton to [insert sweeper here]. Celebi's flaws are still all there. U-turn is still it's biggest nightmare, and a laundry list of weaknesses is only offset by it's laundry list of resists combined with a diverse move pool and good bulk on both sides of the spectrum. I'm down for raising Celebi up to A rank for its ability to be versatile with viable offensive and defensive sets.
I still think Clefable should be S.
I respect your opinion and all, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that just stating an opinion out of nowhere with no reasoning, particularly when the issue's been dormant for a bit, will not help your cause.
I have no actual opinion on Lando-T because it's the one Pokemon I deliberately go out of my way to not use, but I will leave something on Celebi. I've been able to put it on most of my teams, be they more defensive, offensive or balanced -based, and it has been able to pull it's weight on every single one. It's a very versatile Mon, but I wouldn't call it a top-tier threat that you have to pack an answer for - you usually have some kind of check without really thinking about it. Then again, Lando-T isn't particularly scary to deal with and apparently it's versatility is what is keeping it in S, or at the very lowest A+. If sheer versatility alone can get a mon that high, I see no reason why Celebi couldn't be A. I wouldn't object if it stayed A-, but I think the case for it moving up is very strong.
As part as being prepared for an specific mon I agree in that teams tend to be more prepared to Lando-T than to Lando-I, but it is also a similar case with mons like M-Sableye, M-Gyara with Taunt or Serperior are much more viable and used because of this, but this is part of what an S rank should be IMO(because it centralizes to an extent what mons you need to be using to deal with specific thrreats),.
When you need to be more prepared to a certain mon more than another is indirect proof that it is better.
My point is that if we don't take prediction into account Lando-T wins against M-Diance, so therefore I would just kill her instead of using U-Turn, again in a situation where prediction is not considered I don't see why would you use U-Turn instead of EQ to kill.
If you can kill, you do it, if you don't you spam U-turn to wear down and bring a pokemon to do it, and Lando-T can accomplish that on top of other things previously stated.
The problem with the whole centralization argument is that this can be implied from at the very least, to me personally, from A- and up in regards to centralization amongst a variety of mons whose viability is also indicative of their usage. This points actually even applies to some of the lower ranked stuff such as Raikou for example. There's a centralization of Talonflame, Latios, and Clefable but these don't necessarily warrant them of S rank value. You need to consider that the roles they excel at and are known for need a negligible amount of support to successfully accomplish and this basic trait right here is one that signifies an A+ mon. Latios doesnt enjoy the relevancy of Scarftar, Talonflame's SR Weakness, Clefable's necessity to take blanket checks out of the picture in order to function properly. Obviously there's more to it than that for each of those but in relation if a meta is over-prepared for a certain threat, Lando-T in this example, and it needs these circumstances out of the picture on any given day to properly function in the meta-game on a consistent enough basis, then that's a good sign it's lost some viability. This last point you could argue also applies to M-Sableye but the difference with M-Sableye is that its presence alone creates a profound amount of centralization where even traditional checks and counters need to tread more carefully in regards to facing it in order to not be hindered by M-Sableye's utility. These legitimate checks and counters to it are even smaller in comparison to Lando-T and the advantage that it provides on both balanced and stall builds is tremendous. There's no arguing that Lando-T is not a great mon by itself but to the point where it defines the meta just by its sheer presence alone, I'd have to disagree with.
jzplr
formerly SuperLuigi9624
Why is Whimsicott C-? Lololo
Whimsicott is one of the few Pokémon with access to Prankster Paralysis, albeit in the less reliable Stun Spore rather than Thunder Wave. So, you might question why use Whimsicott over Thundurus. While it is "outclassed" as a paralysis spreader, Whimsicott has access to Prankster Subseed and can Encore while behind said sub to either A) switch their opponent out, or B), indirectly kill their Pokemon by sacking them to leech seed.
Just one poor play and their opponent is gone.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-205887952 <-- Just watch this replay. Even with a Leech Seed miss I was still able to pull through with seeding a Keldeo to death.
And hell, Stun Spore actually helps it paralyze Ground-types.
While it's definitely not an S-Rank Pokémon, that's for sure, I feel like C- is just a bit biased considering I can see nothing against the point that Whimsicott is bad. It's not ground-breaking by any means, but it's definitely not C-, try C+ or B-?
Whimsicott is one of the few Pokémon with access to Prankster Paralysis, albeit in the less reliable Stun Spore rather than Thunder Wave. So, you might question why use Whimsicott over Thundurus. While it is "outclassed" as a paralysis spreader, Whimsicott has access to Prankster Subseed and can Encore while behind said sub to either A) switch their opponent out, or B), indirectly kill their Pokemon by sacking them to leech seed.
Just one poor play and their opponent is gone.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-205887952 <-- Just watch this replay. Even with a Leech Seed miss I was still able to pull through with seeding a Keldeo to death.
And hell, Stun Spore actually helps it paralyze Ground-types.
While it's definitely not an S-Rank Pokémon, that's for sure, I feel like C- is just a bit biased considering I can see nothing against the point that Whimsicott is bad. It's not ground-breaking by any means, but it's definitely not C-, try C+ or B-?
Yeah your opponent played pretty poorly and this replay is a bad case for wanting something to rise based of the performance of it and the position of the ranking alone. Anything above C- is too high for something like Whimsicott anyways. You're overhyping it a bit when that team conveniently didn't have a grass type, which a lot of teams have now a days, and I don't know if that Clefable was Unaware or Magic Guard but if it was the latter I have 0 clue why they didn't go to that in the first place. It's fine in C-.
jzplr
formerly SuperLuigi9624
Well, I did ladder a bit and it's still looking pretty good. I'm in the 1400s now, and it's still fairly decent. Paralysis is one of the best things for crippling. No true recovery from the Pokemon like sleep and knocking off speed and having a pretty big chance to just waste a turn is pretty huge in such a heavy offense-set up environment.
I dunno, hate Whimsicott if you want. I find it just fine. :P
Another thing I'd like to address is Mega Charizard X. A+ is fine, but I honestly don't see why it's in the tier holding true titans like Latios and Mega Altaria.
It just doesn't look like it has the capability to hit the OU metagame. Dragon Dance always goes one of three ways
A) You Dragon Dance once, and anything that it can't hit super effectively and is bulky's gonna tank it and smash it in the face. Or it could kill one thing and then get forced out by priority.
B) You run Earthquake to hit Heatran, and then either, sub category A and B.
A) You get walled by Water types.
B) You miss using Roost and that destroys you royally.
C) You get a successful sweep. Either your opponent wasn't prepared, like, at all, or you're using him too late game and there are other late game sweepers like Diggersby who don't take up a mega slot and have access to priority.
Eventually, on that team, I ended up that Charizard in that replay on the lower-ladder to Mega Charizard Y just because X wasn't cutting it.
But hey, that's just my opinion. Mega Charizard Y seems a little underrated, actually. It's speed is pretty bad considering you're looking at those friggin' 101+ speeders
Um, Char X is one of the best A+ rank Pokemon at the moment. If you get a DD up, there's really not a lot that can stop it. And FYI, bulky water types don't stop it. Azu is 2HKOed by +1 Flare Blitz after Stealth Rocks and can't do much back. Altaria also doesn't have Will-O-Wisp (although I do like it a bit better). Honestly, Char X is probably one of the most solid A+ mons right now.
Also, don't use Whim. If you really want Prankster Paralysis, use Thundurus.
jzplr
formerly SuperLuigi9624
I've never had a problem with it. Spore + Focus Sash Breloom can 2HKO with Rock Tomb followed by a Mach Punch, Whimsicott (my personal preference) and Thundurus stop it with Stun Spore/T-Wave, and switching out isn't good unless you have Healing Wish or something, and being a sweeper meant to stay in for a long time means it's horribly allergic to Toxic
Speaking of Charizard X, maybe it's just because I'm not a great teambuilder
Maybe I can appreciate it more if I get a sample team with it, but I've never successfully sweeped with one or been sweeped with one
In fact, I'm pretty sure I've never seen Charizard-X get over one kill
First off, thinking Whimsicott isn't C or C+ is not hating. That's like saying OU hates Sudowoodo(one of my fav pokes) because they won't rank it.
Secondly, name a priority move that can OHKO ZardX.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 109-129 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 90-106 (30.3 - 35.6%) -- 34% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 214-253 (72 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That's as hard priority is going to be hitting Charizard X. And that's not even bulky zard.
A) Could you give examples? Bulky D-Dance can set up on plenty of bulky Pokemon, like Clefable, Heatran, and more.
B) Why is being forced to run EQ bad? You can get past bulky water types anyway with Dragon Claw, or Flare Blitz because of how strong it hits. And you get plenty of chances to set up Dragon Dances because of how much Zard-X forces out.
Examples being..
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 193-228 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 258-305 (64.3 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 154-183 (39.1 - 46.5%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
C) It is hard to prepare for Charizard-X, you are underselling it way too much. The only things that can put a full stop to a Zard-X sweep is Mega Slowbro and Quagsire, and the latter is still going to be at a low HP after Charizard goes down.
Sure, a Focus Sash Breloom can put it to sleep, but if rocks are up, you are fucked. And Whimsicott and Thundurus have no way of switching in vs a Zard, and there are often status healers on a Zard-X team. And Toxic sucks for most sweepers, yet a sweeper is S-Rank.
And that's because A) You are on low ladder, B) Everyone on the ladder has this new shiny syndrome, they want to try out the new megas. Give it some time, and Charizard X will soon rise in popularity again.
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jzplr
formerly SuperLuigi9624
Name a priority move?
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 73-87 (24.5 - 29.2%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 90-106 (30.3 - 35.6%) -- 32.6% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 69-82 (23.2 - 27.6%) -- 72% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 103-123 (34.6 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Now, that's pretty huge considering that Mega Charizard X is going to take damage against an opponent with an attacking move, and if they don't then that's their mistake considering most things without an attacking move have a status move of sorts like Toxic or T-Wave
Oh well, suit yourself. The huge dragon dance label just doesn't cut it for me.
AM Edit: Removed obnoxious formatting.
First off, Charizard is going to have to take a lot of damage for those attacks to revenge it. And considering how bulky d-dance is a thing, that chance is getting even smaller.
Charizard-X can also run SD and bulky Will-O-Wisp. But just because Pokemon have one set, doesn't mean that they aren't S-Rank. Megagross either runs 4 attacks or RP+3 attacks, yet no one is saying to drop it to A+. Why it is S-Rank is because how well it does those sets, even if they are predictable, there is little to do about them.
- Status