Miyami: Before TGK posts this: What do you guys think of Venomoth to S?
Esidisi: It has counters and checks
Esidisi: Decent enough to stop it
Miyami: So does Scrafty
@
aoemica: so does the rest of s?
@
aoemica: lol
Esidisi: uh
@
aoemica: if something has no counters and checks
@
aoemica: it's called broken
@
aoemica: and banned
Miyami: It's called Mega Rayquaza
Esidisi: so durant~
Miyami: But Venomoth
gbhg: durant is really powerful
gbhg: holy shit
Miyami: Is surprisingly hard to build a team without a dedicated stop
gbhg: I underestimate it so much
gbhg: thing 2hkoes alo
The command '/ca;c' was unrecognized. To send a message starting with '/ca;c', type '//ca;c'.
The command '/clc' was unrecognized. To send a message starting with '/clc', type '//clc'.
Pokémon Showdown! damage calculator. (Courtesy of Honko)
-
Damage Calculator
Miyami: +2 252 SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 120 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 261-307 (52 - 61.2%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
PingPongAlong: After seeing Venomoth really in action, I think it's S material. It puts such a stupid strain on building defensive teams.
Miyami: PingPongAlong, could you help TGK and I work on an argument, then?
Miyami: please?
PingPongAlong: Well, what do you have so far?
@
aoemica: who cares about alo it sets up on alo
Esidisi: I'm doing ok
Esidisi: in ladder
Esidisi: might as well aim for 80 GXE
%
Schaff: 90*
Esidisi: ugh
Kira123033: hi
%
Schaff: hi
PingPongAlong: Hello
Kira123033: whats a good special wall in RU
Esidisi: Fuck it
Esidisi: I'm building around CM aroma
PingPongAlong: Kira, RU doesn't really have good special walls. It takes about three different mons to check all the special attackers in the tier.
Kira123033: thanks
PingPongAlong: No problem
Kira123033: Rotom-Mow has a good SpD
Esidisi: Mola is a good anything wall
Brazilian Hope: Hi
Brazilian Hope: o_o
Esidisi: Except super effective attacks
Esidisi: bye
PingPongAlong: Yep, Mola's the best.
PingPongAlong: Rotom-Mow has mediocre HP though.
You need to be voiced to broadcast this command's information.
To see it for yourself, use: /calc
Pokémon Showdown! damage calculator. (Courtesy of Honko)
-
Damage Calculator
w2e1: sup
w2e1: when is ru open?
+
THECRYSTALonix.: the 25th
+
THECRYSTALonix.: is when it starts
w2e1: right after uu open right?
imsosorrylol: lol
imsosorrylol: when you eat so much taco bell that your ass hurts and you have to take a warm bath
Camronn: me
imsosorrylol: lol
imsosorrylol: thats my fren everyday
+
THECRYSTALonix.: w2e1
+
THECRYSTALonix.: uu open will still be ongoing
Natural Talents: lol
Kira123033: anyone want to battle
HypnoEmpire: hello
Esidisi: Hm
Esidisi: Wonder if klink checks veno
Natural Talents: i wonder
Esidisi: +1 252 SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 98-116 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- 98.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Esidisi: this seems ok in my book
@
aoemica: tinted lens
@
aoemica: 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 144-170 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Miyami: +2 252+ SpA Life Orb Venomoth Hidden Power Fire vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 333-393 (117.2 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Esidisi: oh yeah
HypnoEmpire: bug buzz does more than hp fire
HypnoEmpire: +1 252 SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 255-302 (89.7 - 106.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Esidisi: nvm
Esidisi: gdi why am I up at 11
HypnoEmpire: 252+ Atk Klinklang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 228-270 (81.1 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
HypnoEmpire: lol
Esidisi: dammit
Esidisi: why can klinklang have 110 attack
Esidisi: why can't my favorite pokemon be good? I win 2 out of 3 ladder matches I play every week and it does really well
Esidisi: damn venomoth
HypnoEmpire: ikr
Esidisi: why are you too damn good
• Miyami
wants to nominate it for S but lacks an account
HypnoEmpire: i chose a hell of a time to start using semi-stall
Natural Talents: Miyami make an account
Natural Talents: or are u too young?
Esidisi: I got it
Esidisi: BASTIODON
Natural Talents: no
Miyami: I'm too young
Natural Talents: o rip
Esidisi: It has soundproof
Sanvich Man: Fake your age lol
Esidisi: and is a steel type
Miyami: HP Fire?
Miyami: TGK and I are working on Delphox
+
Caption: everyone is actually 10 on smogon so its ok
PingPongAlong: Bastiadon makes Registeel look like a heavy hitter.
Miyami: xD
Miyami: Scarf Delphox with Psyshock
PingPongAlong: I think simply mentioning Bastiodon means we should suspect Moth, haha.
Esidisi: true
Miyami: 252+ SpA Delphox Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 396-468 (140.9 - 166.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Esidisi: Welp
Esidisi: Veno either has really hard counters or really soft checks
@
aoemica: yeah but like
@
aoemica: it's a 1 time check
HypnoEmpire: veno? hard counters? ha
Esidisi: yh
Esidisi: Have you not used golbat
HypnoEmpire: golbat isn't a hard counter
Miyami: the only problem: +2 252+ SpA Life Orb Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Delphox: 328-386 (112.7 - 132.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Esidisi: Takes hits for dayz
@
aoemica: how are you magically getting up to +2
HypnoEmpire: it's 2HKOed at +1
Esidisi: oh shit
HypnoEmpire: even with max SpD
Esidisi: welp
Miyami: aoemica, it's surprisingly easy
Miyami: maybe that's just because I'm in the 1100s
@
aoemica: so your opponent sends out scarf delphox
@
aoemica: you dodge the psyshock because you're brightpowder
@
aoemica: and then get to +2
@
aoemica: good plan
• Miyami
meant that you get to +2 before Delphox comes out
HypnoEmpire: u put it to sleep when it comes in
Miyami: Scarf outspeeds
Miyami: Scarf even outspeeds +2
Esidisi: welp
Esidisi: wait
HypnoEmpire: scarf delphox doesn't outspeed at +2
Esidisi: timid or modest?
HypnoEmpire: timid
Esidisi: yeah it doesn't
Miyami: hmm
Esidisi: ok
Miyami: The calc lied to me, then
- RU
DelphoxBlaze
Magician
HP
- 75
Atk
- 69
Def
- 72
SpA
- 114
SpD
- 100
Spe
- 104
BST
- 534
- RU
VenomothShield Dust
- Tinted Lens
Wonder Skin
HP
- 70
Atk
- 65
Def
- 60
SpA
- 90
SpD
- 75
Spe
- 90
BST
- 450
Esidisi: +2 252+ SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Golbat: 135-161 (38.2 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Esidisi: Yeah it's iffy
Miyami: Delphox has a higher base speed, and can use a scarf to get even faster?
HypnoEmpire: I meant with sludge bomb
Miyami: can someone help me test this?
HypnoEmpire: sure
%
lighthouses: lol
%
lighthouses: i'm watching esidi
%
lighthouses: being a scrub
%
lighthouses: on youtube
%
lighthouses: Esidisi*
Esidisi: Dude
Esidisi: This is some cool shit
HypnoEmpire: timid venomoth at +2 reaches 612 speed
Miyami: oh, I was using modes
Miyami: modest
%
lighthouses: i mean
HypnoEmpire: most of the venomoth I'm seeing on the forums are timid
%
lighthouses: the fact that i have to run
%
lighthouses: golbat
%
lighthouses: makes it enough reason
%
lighthouses: for a suspect test
Esidisi: It gets better
HypnoEmpire: golbat doesn't even counter after stealth rock, which is really upsetting
Esidisi: Bastiodon
DoubleOD: oh is this tier considering venomoth ban?
Sanvich Man: Hypno what do you mean?
DoubleOD: i just started playing today
Esidisi: Is immune to veno's stabs
%
lighthouses: wait
%
lighthouses: it doesn't?
%
lighthouses: how so
Sanvich Man: BB ohkos always
HypnoEmpire: life orb sludge bomb at +1 2hkoes after rocks
%
lighthouses: lol
%
lighthouses: really
HypnoEmpire: yes
%
lighthouses: !dt golbat
- RU
GolbatInner Focus
Infiltrator
HP
- 75
Atk
- 80
Def
- 70
SpA
- 65
SpD
- 75
Spe
- 90
BST
- 455
Dex#: 42 |Gen: 1 |Height: 1.6 m |Weight: 55 kg
(80 BP) |Dex Colour: Purple |Egg Group(s):Flying |Evolution: Crobat (23)
%
lighthouses: even spdef bat?
Sanvich Man: Hats why they se lack sludge or one attack XP
Esidisi: sheesh, guys
Miyami: Can someone help me test what's faster, +2 Veno or Scarf Fox?
HypnoEmpire: +1 252 SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Venomoth Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 130-153 (36.8 - 43.3%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Esidisi: Just run bastiodon
Esidisi: ez
%
lighthouses: i mean
%
lighthouses: !dt probopass
- PU
ProbopassSturdy
- Magnet Pull
Sand Force
HP
- 60
Atk
- 55
Def
- 145
SpA
- 75
SpD
- 150
Spe
- 40
BST
- 525
Dex#: 476 |Gen: 4 |Height: 1.4 m |Weight: 340 kg
(120 BP) |Dex Colour: Gray |Egg Group(s):Mineral |Does Not Evolve
%
lighthouses: so yea
HypnoEmpire: that's timid veno btw
%
lighthouses: i dont see a problem
PingPongAlong: It's weird. We went from, "This is gonna be so broken" to "This isn't so bad" to "This is so broken."
Esidisi: Nah
Senpai D.M: :]
Esidisi: Lighthouses, bastio has soundproof
%
lighthouses: but probopass is little bit viable
Esidisi: meaning it's immune to bug buzz
%
lighthouses: bastiodon though,
P-Zwag: Venomoth is RU now?
The Chain Holder: so like
PingPongAlong: Yep
The Chain Holder: u can lead with venomoth against their lead
The Chain Holder: put it to sleep
The Chain Holder: and sweep
The Chain Holder: shit's broken
P-Zwag: What the heck
P-Zwag: It dropped so fast
Esidisi: I came to the realization
Esidisi: That AV shell armor lapras was used to stop critdra
@
aoemica: lum bastiodon
Miyami: Okay, Scarf Fox does not outspeed at +2
Miyami: It does, however, outspeed at +1
HypnoEmpire: if it's timid scarf then yes
Miyami: that's what I'm using
Esidisi: Think bigger, aoemica
Esidisi: Safety Goggles Bastiodon
PingPongAlong: I was literally typing that out!
HypnoEmpire: lol
Miyami: xD
Esidisi: Bastiodon is number 1 Venomoth counter
Miyami: Someone go suggest that
Esidisi: gdi
Miyami: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...er-dance-venomoth.3542580/page-4#post-6373410
HypnoEmpire: o i found a veno counter
HypnoEmpire: +1 252+ SpA Life Orb Venomoth Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Emboar: 153-183 (36 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
HypnoEmpire: :]
Miyami: 252+ SpA Delphox Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 396-468 (140.9 - 166.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Esidisi: Sure
PingPongAlong: Hardcore
HypnoEmpire: this thing is too much ;;
Esidisi: Assault Vest makes anything a venomoth counter :]
PingPongAlong: I found one. Cottonee. Just as long as you switch on the turn it tries to set up.
Miyami: Esidisi, does AV make Magikarp a Veno counter?
HypnoEmpire: i was using sleeptalk mega steelix hoping that it can take veno
HypnoEmpire: it can't
PingPongAlong: Haha, sounds about right.
Esidisi: Yes, miyami
Esidisi: it does
PingPongAlong: I feel like we should save this entire conversation for the council.
Miyami: Calc it, then
Miyami: We should
Esidisi: Good thinking, Ping
HypnoEmpire: i calced it, it 2HKOes SpD AV magikarp
HypnoEmpire: at +0
Sanvich Man: Damn
Esidisi: ez
Sanvich Man: We have nothing
Miyami: I'll go CP this for later, or screen record it and send it to TGK
HypnoEmpire: can u cut out the magikarp part LOL
Miyami: should I? Let's put it to a vote
PingPongAlong: I think the magikarp bit should be redacted.
Miyami: I'll CP this
Miyami: give me a sec
HypnoEmpire: alright, but there's something I want to bring up
HypnoEmpire: it's venomoth's performance vs offense
%
lighthouses: dude just run
%
lighthouses: probopass
%
lighthouses: then run poliwrath to check the rest of the meta
%
lighthouses: easy
HypnoEmpire: screw probopass
%
lighthouses: screw you
Miyami: Okay, I got everything up to the post, It's venomoth's performance vs. Offense CPd
PingPongAlong: Fletch makes quick work of it.
HypnoEmpire: yeah, it does
HypnoEmpire: when using venomoth
@
aoemica: shame fletch can die if it tries to switch into a venomoth with rocks up
HypnoEmpire: I like using it with some variation of volt turn
HypnoEmpire: because it's difficult to bring veno in vs offense
Esidisi: oh yeah
Miyami: Actually, I've had a fairly even time using Aromatisse to pass a wish in
PingPongAlong: Togetic with a slow Baton Pass sounds pretty sweet.
HypnoEmpire: that's what I'm using it with rn hah
Miyami: It's not impossible, but certainly hard
Esidisi: Finding my time aggresively using venomoth, I've had it struggle most of the time against offense, with the fear of it always being ohko'd on the switch
Esidisi: Let's be real
HypnoEmpire: there isn't too much on offense than veno can set up on
HypnoEmpire: tbh
HypnoEmpire: at least safely
Miyami: So, offensive teams beat veno
Esidisi: Iyeah
Miyami: but a single mon is hard to come up with
Esidisi: Veno can easily take down stall
PingPongAlong: Yep, no problem at all.
HypnoEmpire: if they have at least 1 thing that is slower than veno, it can set up on that
Esidisi: Except Steel types and Togetic in the case it lacks sludge bomb
Miyami: *cough* HP fire *cough*
HypnoEmpire: veno has little problems vs steel types
Esidisi: Yeah
Miyami: Venomoth has the coverage to beat anything, but only has 1 slot to place said coverage in
HypnoEmpire: because sleep powder + sub screws most of them over
Esidisi: Although it takes a boost or two to hit them reliably
*time Passes*
Esidisi: I'd just put a line from a dumb videogame
Miyami: Eh, I've got most of it CPed
Esidisi: like uh
Esidisi: idk
Esidisi: nvm back to veno
Miyami: So for checks and counters, we've got: Escavalier, Registeel, Cottonee,Magikarp, Golbat, and Delphox
Esidisi: So, it doesn't fare well against offense, but it does against more balanced/defensive playstyles, yada yada yada
Esidisi: oh
Miyami: and Emboar
Esidisi: Klinklang can kill Veno
Esidisi: after LO recoil
HypnoEmpire: klinklang is a poor answer to veno tbh
Miyami: but Veno can Kill Klinklang
Miyami: *Scrolls up*
Esidisi: Veno can kill Fox
Esidisi: gdi I just want to dream
PingPongAlong: I hate to remind you, but Bastiodon.
Esidisi: fuck it
Miyami: 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 144-170 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Esidisi: YES
Esidisi: BASTIODON
Miyami: Also, Fox Outspeeds and kills +1 veno with Scarf
Miyami: if you play right, it's easy
Esidisi: yeah
Esidisi: Imean
HypnoEmpire: escavalier isn't as good of a check to veno as i'd like it to be
Esidisi: You could predict a sludge bumb/ qd from veno and switch klang in
PingPongAlong: Yeah, Escavalier's pretty meh.
Esidisi: To me
HypnoEmpire: 252 SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 174 HP / 0 SpD Escavalier: 140-169 (43.2 - 52.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Miyami: Just let opponent use Sleep powder, switch on the QD, and then use Psyshock
HypnoEmpire: are u kidding me
Miyami: Garunteed OHKO
Esidisi: Miyami, that's how klang functions too
HypnoEmpire: +1 252 SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 255-302 (89.7 - 106.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
HypnoEmpire: nice klinklang
Esidisi: Ez
DKFirelord: Calm SpDef SD Esca
DKFirelord: *calc
%
lighthouses: isn't it easier to just
%
lighthouses: adapt your teams to the meta
%
lighthouses: instead of running niche bad mons
Natural Talents: it is
%
lighthouses: just for the sake of running fat teams
Natural Talents: but people like to get likes
Natural Talents: and run dank shit
DKFirelord: But Esca isn't a niche niche mon;;;
%
lighthouses: spdef sd is
HypnoEmpire: doesn't SpD escav use megahorn
Miyami: I've seen so many teams use Tangela...
Sengoescompetitive: Honestly I feel like mega Scrafty should get a major speed buff
Natural Talents: lighthouses SpD is only good on stall tbh
DKFirelord: ^
%
lighthouses: yea
%
lighthouses: its niche
Natural Talents: so light kind of is right
Miyami: Veno > Stall, though
Natural Talents: it's not good on any other play style making the set niche
• Miyami
has this entire conversation recorded
HypnoEmpire: +1 252 SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Escavalier: 156-185 (45.3 - 53.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
PingPongAlong: So it's not even good on stall.
%
lighthouses: it is actually
Miyami: So, who am I sending this convo too?
HypnoEmpire: +1 252 SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Escavalier: 156-185 (45.3 - 53.7%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery -- I forgot leftovers
HypnoEmpire: same thing though
DKFirelord: lighthouses then what are some mins that cAn check moth
%
lighthouses: offensive pressure
%
lighthouses: o_o
Miyami: Sash Magic Guard something
%
lighthouses: if u run 4 deffensive mon cores you're gonna lose
PingPongAlong: DK, that's been the conversation for the last hour, haha.
Miyami: can a voice or above do !ds Magic Guard, all?
+
THECRYSTALonix.: no
+
THECRYSTALonix.: not all
/ds Magic Guard, all:
Abra, Alakazam, Clefable, Clefairy, Cleffa, Duosion, Kadabra, Reuniclus, Sigilyph, Solosis
+
THECRYSTALonix.: only !ds magic guard
+
Caption: it might show all anyway
Miyami: okay
+
Caption: !ds magic guard
Abra, Alakazam, Clefable, Clefairy, Cleffa, Duosion, Kadabra, Reuniclus, Sigilyph, Solosis
+
Caption: yeah
Miyami: same thing
PingPongAlong: I'm not sure what you're getting at with that, Miyami.
Miyami: I'm joking around, mostly
PingPongAlong: Ah, got it.
HypnoEmpire: scrubs, focus sash sigi counters veno
Miyami: Something to switch in on entry hazards with a Sash to keep it alive, but nothing's fast enough except maybe kadabra
- PU
KadabraSynchronize
- Inner Focus
Magic Guard
HP
- 40
Atk
- 35
Def
- 30
SpA
- 120
SpD
- 70
Spe
- 105
BST
- 400
- RU
VenomothShield Dust
- Tinted Lens
Wonder Skin
HP
- 70
Atk
- 65
Def
- 60
SpA
- 90
SpD
- 75
Spe
- 90
BST
- 450
Miyami: Kadabra outspeeds Veno at +0 and lives with a sash?
Kadabra
can't learn Destiny Bond
%
lighthouses: !dt mr mime
- PU
Mr. MimeSoundproof
- Filter
Technician
HP
- 40
Atk
- 45
Def
- 65
SpA
- 100
SpD
- 120
Spe
- 90
BST
- 460
Dex#: 122 |Gen: 1 |Height: 1.3 m |Weight: 54.5 kg
(80 BP) |Dex Colour: Pink |Egg Group(s):Human-Like |Does Not Evolve
%
lighthouses: !dt choice scarf
Choice ScarfHolder's Speed is 1.5x, but it can only select the first move it executes.
Gen: 4 |Fling Base Power: 10
%
lighthouses: !dt psyshock
- Psyshock
Power
- 80Accuracy
- 100%
PP
- 16Damages target based on Defense, not Sp. Def.
Priority: 0 |Gen: 5 |Target: One Adjacent Pokémon
%
lighthouses: easy
Miyami: It's literally like Delphox
%
lighthouses: cept
Miyami: except worse against anything that isn't Venomoth
%
lighthouses: soundproof
%
lighthouses: + healing wish
%
lighthouses: best move in the game
PingPongAlong: Mr. Mime's KO'd by Sludge Bomb. Easy.
Miyami: That Fairy typing
%
lighthouses: nah they dont
Miyami: Also, +1 outspeeds
%
lighthouses: go for it
Miyami: +1 Venomoth outspeeds Scarf Mr. Mime, doesn't it?
Esidisi: Who uses sludge bomb
DKFirelord: No they speed tie
%
lighthouses: exacly
%
lighthouses: who uses
%
lighthouses: sludge bomb
HypnoEmpire: i do
%
lighthouses: who else
DKFirelord: :^
PingPongAlong: Haha
@
aoemica: giga drain 4 lyfe
%
lighthouses: exactly
%
lighthouses: as long as u dont face HypnoEmpire
Miyami: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...er-dance-venomoth.3542580/page-4#post-6373410Esidisi, it's in the set here
%
lighthouses: ur fine
HypnoEmpire: lol
• Miyami
has this entire conversation recorded
%
lighthouses: we get it
%
lighthouses: why though
%
lighthouses: this conversation is so pointless
Miyami: someone mentioned it, so I thought I would
Miyami: also, for humour
%
lighthouses: okay then
The Chain Holder: the counter
The Chain Holder: is on that page
Miyami: Registeel?
PingPongAlong: It'd be good to collect all of the points made in the conversation.
Miyami: I'll do that, after the conversation stops
/hide
