ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M3 (READ POST #823)

[LRXC]

Thanks! and I guess, but you can run lum berry on machamp, I used to do that, but now I run AV. No-Guard also helps stone edge hit all of the time, :)

 

[The Heartless Dictator]

Yeah, I don't really think Machamp needs to move up a rank either. It doesn't do that well against bulky offense, and No Guard is a double-edged sword that allows your opponent to use moves without worrying about accuracy, which is especially problematic if your opponent burns Machamp with Will-O. I think A- is a good enough place for it atm.

 

[LRXC]

I really think that Vaporeon needs to be of a higher rank, at least moved up to B rank. He is more viable than some of the pokemon above him, and he is a great tanky wish passer, with a great ability in water absorb, walling Cune and being a good switch in. He can also run Heal Bell, a great move for team utility. I think he deserves a rank increase, as he is a lot better than B-

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Hello, welcome to Smogon yet again. Before anyone says anything, I can understand this since you're new, but just for future reference, multiple posting (posting two or more posts in one threat consecutively with no responses between) is generally not allowed, so if you have more to say after you post, I suggest you edit your post to add content. That's all for that.

And as for Vaporeon, while it isn't an objectively bad Pokemon, it actually doesn't have much of a use beyond providing a few niche aspects, hence why it is only B-. Alomomola is a much better water-type Wish passer than Vaporeon as it passes larger Wishes, has more physical bulk, and has access to Regenerator to consistently at least keep itself healthy while it is forced out or passing Wishes, meaning it can keep its teammates and itself alive at once. While Alomomola's Scalds have a pitiful damage output, they still do what they're meant to do: inflict burns. Yes, Vaporeon has better special bulk, but there aren't a whole lot of special attackers that Vaporeon can take on that Alomomola can't. While Water Absorb sounds nice to wall Suicune, you have to consider that Vaporeon really can't do much back in return except Roar, and if you do run that, you can't support with Heal Bell and either way Vaporeon is also bait for Salamence and Hydreigon if it doesn't run Ice Beam. Heliolisk and Toxicroak do a much better job at sucking up Scalds while being able to prove legitimate threats to Suicune and in general. There are much better bulky Waters out there with more utility, as Suicune can CM sweep and stuff while it can also do phazing shenanigans, and Alomomola outclasses as a Wish passing Water-type.

Overall while Vaporeon is objectively decent there's nothing about it that stands out in the face of most of the myriad of bulky Water-types in UU, which is why it's ranked low as it is. Basically the only reason to really use it is for potential role compression, but even then it's not going to be as great as other bulky Waters out there, namely Suicune and Alomomola.

 

[LRXC]

I am sorry for posting multiple replies, I did not know that. I guess you are right about Alomomola, my bad :) Have A Nice Day!

 

[Thisbemyalt]

So I can't remember the last time that this was brought up but I would like to nominate Mega Sceptile to A-
Mega sceptile was such an underrated threat a few weeks ago and now its just a plain threat, between one of the best speed tiers in the meta and great STAB coverage mega sceptile can threaten so many teams. Now Sceptiles speed is a huge asset as a mega as many megas have to run a +speed nature or be out paced by most the meta however m-sceptile, much like m-bee, can run a modest nature and still reach a whopping 389 while hitting much harder than it would with a timid nature. As for its STAB well grass/dragon is great STAB coverage allowing it to check waters and significantly threaten the dragon types of the tier such as non scarf hydreigon and salamence. Sceptile will often run focus blast which allows it to hit the steel types of the tier. Sceptile also has the unique ability in helping check volt turn due to the fact that one of the best electric types in the tier, aka rotom mow, is hard walled by it. Now sceptile ofc has flaws much like the rest of the mons in A-, one such flaw is the fact that it can be threatened out easily by mamo but so can like half the damn tier, it is usually very restricted in its movepool as three stab moves are almost always required, and most special walls can switch in with ease since sceptile has almost no utility to it. One more point I would like to bring up is the fact that CM florges is on the rise and is very good in the current meta, well this set makes it so it actually can't switch into sceptile, a leaf storm from modest sceptile does about 50% to max defense florges meaning with a bit more damage or multiple hazards up, florges is 2hko'd.

Now some meta game changes other than cm florges that makes sceptile a bigger threat,

• Offense and bulky offense are great right now and with the right teamates even balance really fears sceptile

• Scarfers have almost completely fallen out of favor as of late making sceptiles speed much better

While these may not seem like a lot just keep in mind some common mons that are threatened by Sceptile, cobalion, heliolisk, gatr, mence, hydrei, etc.
TLDR: Im shit at getting a point across but sceptile is quite the threat as of late and a rise should definitely be discussed.

 

[Nightingales]

So I can't remember the last time that this was brought up but I would like to nominate Mega Sceptile to A-
Mega sceptile was such an underrated threat a few weeks ago and now its just a plain threat, between one of the best speed tiers in the meta and great STAB coverage mega sceptile can threaten so many teams. Now Sceptiles speed is a huge asset as a mega as many megas have to run a +speed nature or be out paced by most the meta however m-sceptile, much like m-bee, can run a modest nature and still reach a whopping 389 while hitting much harder than it would with a timid nature. As for its STAB well grass/dragon is great STAB coverage allowing it to check waters and significantly threaten the dragon types of the tier such as non scarf hydreigon and salamence. Sceptile will often run focus blast which allows it to hit the steel types of the tier. Sceptile also has the unique ability in helping check volt turn due to the fact that one of the best electric types in the tier, aka rotom mow, is hard walled by it. Now sceptile ofc has flaws much like the rest of the mons in A-, one such flaw is the fact that it can be threatened out easily by mamo but so can like half the damn tier, it is usually very restricted in its movepool as three stab moves are almost always required, and most special walls can switch in with ease since sceptile has almost no utility to it. One more point I would like to bring up is the fact that CM florges is on the rise and is very good in the current meta, well this set makes it so it actually can't switch into sceptile, a leaf storm from modest sceptile does about 50% to max defense florges meaning with a bit more damage or multiple hazards up, florges is 2hko'd.

Now some meta game changes other than cm florges that makes sceptile a bigger threat,

• Offense and bulky offense are great right now and with the right teamates even balance really fears sceptile

• Scarfers have almost completely fallen out of favor as of late making sceptiles speed much better

While these may not seem like a lot just keep in mind some common mons that are threatened by Sceptile, cobalion, heliolisk, gatr, mence, hydrei, etc.
TLDR: Im shit at getting a point across but sceptile is quite the threat as of late and a rise should definitely be discussed.

I've been using it, and the only thing that can really stop it (that's good in the meta) if it actually isn't dead by Focus Blast is Mamoswine, offense-wise. Defensive and Balanced playstyles have Florges.

244 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sceptile: 437-515 (155.5 - 183.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
244 Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sceptile: 336-396 (119.5 - 140.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The thing about Sceptile is that though it's got some crazy offenses, and an amazingful speed tier, it remains best in any role as an incredible cleaner. With a little bit of team support (since Florges hard-walls it), you can just blow through weakened teams like they're nothing, and that is what I feel is the main draw to using it. It can wallbreak, sure, but it does a job of sweeping after things are broken down a little bit.

 

[Saltytears]

Would like to nominate Toxicroak to A ,
After trying a lot the NP Set i made the conclusion , to having the possibility to lure his SD set check principaly named , Doublade (being really implemented into the meta actually) , Krook (2hko or ohko a +2), Forry ,Mence take (68.2 - 80.3%) on switch from sludge wave (43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock) Chand don't like taking DPulse and get OHKOed if rocks are up. Doing a lot with vacuum even a +0 to Hydreigon , m-Aero ,m-Sharpedo and Mamoswine and obv OHKO them at 2 ,OHKOing florges at +2 too for ppl asking , can setup on bulky water as well (fu suicune , would say except m-Swamp) and umbreon . Crobat , Nidos , m-Aggron are still a problem since it does resit vacuum and for the last one he"s just too FAT, most of the time if thoose perticullar threats are dead np croak can clean almost everything if played at least decently since +2 vacuum wawe hits so hard , this set can't get ride of blissey but none will switchin if the set isn't revealed same for Porygod whatever :p,
Well for giving some weight to my arguement i reached top 20/50 with 3 alt playing a lot of NP croak and BoB is first playing it with a really solid team around it i would admit trying it a few times ( and beating him with his own team as much i got rekt T_T , yep solid as fuck )

PS: Would like to excuse myself for my awful english , cramed a lot of english class :p , i hope it was understandable

 

[LRXC]

I like your reasons, but I feel like he just misses the cut, yes he is a perfect counter to SUicune, and can 2ohko many threats, but he is frail, and has a ugly 4x weakness to psychic and is weak to brave bird spamming, earthquake, and taunt as well. I like your reasons, but like I said, he should probably stay in A-

 

[Pinkin Lark]

Rating Sceptile at b- is absolutely absurd. It shits on offensive teams so hard it's not even funny. If you want an example, look at one of the games of R0ady vs teal when, without a focus blast miss, R0ady quite literally clean swept from something ridiculous like turn 5. Sceptile has answers, yes, but that doesn't devalue its worth as a very potent cleaner which still maintains its ability to 2hko many common checks with hazards support. Offense has its hands full to deal with Aero, doublade, swampert, and cobalion; which leaves it strapped for slots to answer sceptile more than once per game. Also, let's cool it on insulting new users, he's just getting his foot in the door you don't need to be rude.

Tbh, most every post I've seen from him includes some form of insult, either to poster or post. Must just be a part of him..

Anyways, guess I'll quickly cover my thoughts on all of his nominations:

- Toxicroak: He's one of those weird mons that doesn't really have good bulk or speed. Typing/Dry Skin help a bit, but he still generally needs +2 with either SD or NP set, and not everything is going to let him do it easily. A- is honestly fine for him.

- MScept: YABO said pretty much everything. MScept is an awesome, if a bit undervalued, mega. Has a few things that can scare it, but we aren't talking about a S-Rank nom anyways.

- Vaporeon: At this point, I think Baton Pass is the only niche Vape has going for it. As a bulky water it's pretty much outdone by just about every other one, including Milotic. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if it eventually fell to C.

- Machamp: While Heracross kind of ruins it's general viability as a Guts user(not to say Guts Champ isn't still scary), it still carries a pretty useful ability Heracross doesn't: the ability to rip apart Fairies with either Heavy Slam or Bullet Punch. Even outside of usage vs Fairies, having a little priority from BP doesn't hurt either. Maybe a B+, but A- isn't a total overstate.

As for Veno and Hoopa, I've not seen/used them enough, but I know they can both put in a lot of work in the right matchups. Tinted Lens Veno hits most everything like a truck at +1(not to mention that disgusting Sub Disable set someone created...), and Hoopa will always be able to punch a hole or two into a team, provided nothing is carrying Pursuit, Sucker Punch, or Sneak Attack...

 

[Christo]

Hey guys, I would like to Nominate Hoopa for A-/B+ rank. I too thought Hoopa would be an extremely mediocre pokemon since it is slower than regular Swampert and dies to pursuit / shadow sneak from full. I decieded to try out Hoopa and I noticed how amazing the OTR set is(This nomination is based solely on this set as I think the other sets are B rank level). This set has pretty much no switch ins bar Specially Defensive Mandibuzz and that is not the most common pokemon in itself. Every other pokemon gets 2hko'd IIRC and can easily 1HKO most offensive pokemon after Stealth Rock. Since this is a Trick Room set, Hoopa can afford to run Max HP making it easy to setup Trick Room on any special attack that is not super effective. Here are some calcs I think are hilarious.
252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 134-160 (36.8 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 196-231 (53.8 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As you can see Hoopa can chew these hits and still have enough HP to get off several hits. Here is a calc to show that Shadow Ball can nearly KO Salamence back after a Life Orb hit
252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 253-298 (76.4 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

From my experience(I have built around 3 decent hoopa teams) people's answer for it after it sets up Trick Room is switching back and forth between their dark type or just praying Focus Blast misses. And if the other team doesn't have a dark type you pretty much
guarantee 1.5/2 kills. Something to mention is that the most common Pursuit users will die to any one attack after Stealth Rock making only Sucker Punch be the main issue(Obviously if you lead Hoopa and they lead Krookodile turn 1 that is a misplay on your end). Another cool thing about Hoopa is that it counters pokemon like Reuniclus(assuming no Shadow Ball and you get predicted on the switch) as well as being able to switch into pokemon such as Florges and Suicune with ease.

So yeah, I think the main reason it is so low on the VR is that people did not give it a chance( I didn't give it a chance at the start either). So i recommend all of you to try and build a cool team around this thing, it really is not that difficult. I personally would like to see it at A- rank although pokemon going up two ranks is not usual. B rank is just plain wrong, though :).

 

[Aquadext]

Hi, I think Mega Steelix should go up in the viability rankings. It is a really underrated Pokemon, and suffers by comparison with Mega Aggron which has overall better bulk and a better ability. But Steelix has some advantages over the steel rhino, notably a nice stab Earthquake and a typing that allow it to stop VoltTurn teams easily.
I don't say Steelix should reach A+ rank like Aggron, but it definetly deserves a higher rank than B-.

 

[Kingler]

definitely agreeing with hoopa as it is really fucking powerful, i personally like the idea of basically an auto-win against a lot of stalls but OTR is very threatening too. there's not much that takes its attacks and its special bulk is decent to the point that it can tank common attacks reasonably. A-/A sounds more than fair.

 

[thesecondbest]

Hoopa-C c is a barely worse chandy so just put it one subrank lower. I'm getting into uu now that smeargle is here so I put it on a webs squad. It isn't awful but worse than chandy so just a-.

 

[Vapo]

I don't really understand how you can say Hoopa is a 'worse Chandelure' when they serve quite different roles. Chandelure may have a slightly better speed stat and stronger secondary STAB, but Hoopa can do things Chandelure wishes it could. The LO NP set absolutely manhandles stall due to Hoopa's access to STAB Psyshock, which OHKOs Blissey and Florges after a boost, while the OTR set can blow holes into offensive teams and sweep late game. While that's not to say Chandelure can't break stall or clean offense with the proper set, it often cannot do so nearly as effectively as Hoopa. That being said, I do agree that A is overselling Hoopa a bit, as it is easy to revenge kill and struggles against offense if it is not running OTR, so A- is probably a good place to put it for now.

Anyways, I'd like to give my thoughts on some of the previously made nominations:

B+ -> A-: I'm on the fence on this one. It has great matchup versus offense, beats Suicune, and can check DD Feraligatr. Lightning Rod is a great ability as well, as it allows Sceptile to shut down Rotom-C, one of the best offensive momentum-grabbers at the moment. And with hazard support, especially spikes, Sceptile can be a nightmare for balance teams, weakening common switch-ins such as Florges and eventually cleaning late game. However, Sceptile does have quite a few noteworthy flaws. Its dual STAB is decent at best, meaning it has to rely on Focus Blast's shaky accuracy to round off its coverage and damage Empoleon, Mega Aggron, and other steels. Even with Grass/Dragon/Fighting coverage, Sceptile's moveset is resisted by Doublade and Whimsicott, two increasingly common pokemon in the current metagame. With no boosting moves outside of Growth (lol) Sceptile is set up fodder for Reuniclus, and struggles to break common special walls such as Umbreon, Porygon2, and Blissey. Offensively, it's not that hard to check either, given that most common scarfers (Hydreigon, Mienshao, Salamence, Darmanitan) force it out, and most priority moves (Ice Shard from Mamoswine/Abomasnow and Extreme Speed from Entei/Lucario) at the very least 2HKO it. Especially with bare hyper offense falling out of favor in lieu of Reuniclus balance, I think Sceptile is fine in B+, though I would not be opposed to it rising in the future if the meta shifts.

A- -> A: I can see myself getting behind this. Toxicroak may not have the best stats on paper, with a mediocre attack stat and barely passible speed. However, what it does have is a great defensive typing, expansive movepool, and arguably one of the best abilities to have in UU, Dry Skin. Poison/Fighting typing with Dry Skin gives Toxicroak resistances to Fighting, Bug, Rock, Dark, and Grass, as well as an immunity to Water. This, along with its decent base 85 speed, allows Toxicroak to check many big threats in the current meta, including Mienshao, Feraligatr, Suicune, Heracross, Mamoswine, and many others. With one of Toxicroak's best checks, Crobat, seeing less and less usage, Toxicroak has a lot more freedom in its last moveslot, since it often does not need the priority in Sucker Punch. Ice Punch is fantastic in this slot, especially with the prevalence of Porygon2 + Fighting resist (generally either Florges or Gligar) cores. Ice Punch also allows Toxicroak to KO bulky Salamence, which has been gaining popularity as well. And on top of the fantastic physical set, Toxicroak can opt to run a specially based Nasty Plot set with Sludge Wave/Vacuum Wave/Dark Pulse, which allows it to lure and KO common checks such as Hydreigon, Doublade, and Krookodile after a boost. Overall, a great pokemon in the current metagame that has multiple effective sets and checks many common threats, including two S rank pokemon, so I believe moving it up to A would be appropriate.

 

[ShadowBlizzard]

Hoopa is too slow and weak to physical attacks. Two x4 weaknesses, including one to Knock Off. But if it does manage to outspeed, it can definitely wreak havoc with that high of a special attack. SpD isn't bad either.

 

[The Heartless Dictator]

B+ -> A-: I'm on the fence on this one. It has great matchup versus offense, beats Suicune, and can check DD Feraligatr. Lightning Rod is a great ability as well, as it allows Sceptile to shut down Rotom-C, one of the best offensive momentum-grabbers at the moment. And with hazard support, especially spikes, Sceptile can be a nightmare for balance teams, weakening common switch-ins such as Florges and eventually cleaning late game. However, Sceptile does have quite a few noteworthy flaws. Its dual STAB is decent at best, meaning it has to rely on Focus Blast's shaky accuracy to round off its coverage and damage Empoleon, Mega Aggron, and other steels. Even with Grass/Dragon/Fighting coverage, Sceptile's moveset is resisted by Doublade and Whimsicott, two increasingly common pokemon in the current metagame. With no boosting moves outside of Growth (lol) Sceptile is set up fodder for Reuniclus, and struggles to break common special walls such as Umbreon, Porygon2, and Blissey. Offensively, it's not that hard to check either, given that most common scarfers (Hydreigon, Mienshao, Salamence, Darmanitan) force it out, and most priority moves (Ice Shard from Mamoswine/Abomasnow and Extreme Speed from Entei/Lucario) at the very least 2HKO it. Especially with bare hyper offense falling out of favor in lieu of Reuniclus balance, I think Sceptile is fine in B+, though I would not be opposed to it rising in the future if the meta shifts.

I'm not disagreeing with you or anything, but Sceptile does have a niche as a Swords Dancer which allows it to get past some of its usual counters. It's access to Drain Punch alleviates his problems (somewhat) with Blissey, Umbreon, Empoleon, etc, and Earthquake lets it dent Empoleon as well as Doublade.

I'm one who thinks it shouldn't rise either, but I believe that this set would perform better in this meta than its All-Out Offensive set.

 

[Thisbemyalt]

I don't really understand how you can say Hoopa is a 'worse Chandelure' when they serve quite different roles. Chandelure may have a slightly better speed stat and stronger secondary STAB, but Hoopa can do things Chandelure wishes it could. The LO NP set absolutely manhandles stall due to Hoopa's access to STAB Psyshock, which OHKOs Blissey and Florges after a boost, while the OTR set can blow holes into offensive teams and sweep late game. While that's not to say Chandelure can't break stall or clean offense with the proper set, it often cannot do so nearly as effectively as Hoopa. That being said, I do agree that A is overselling Hoopa a bit, as it is easy to revenge kill and struggles against offense if it is not running OTR, so A- is probably a good place to put it for now.

Anyways, I'd like to give my thoughts on some of the previously made nominations:

B+ -> A-: I'm on the fence on this one. It has great matchup versus offense, beats Suicune, and can check DD Feraligatr. Lightning Rod is a great ability as well, as it allows Sceptile to shut down Rotom-C, one of the best offensive momentum-grabbers at the moment. And with hazard support, especially spikes, Sceptile can be a nightmare for balance teams, weakening common switch-ins such as Florges and eventually cleaning late game. However, Sceptile does have quite a few noteworthy flaws. Its dual STAB is decent at best, meaning it has to rely on Focus Blast's shaky accuracy to round off its coverage and damage Empoleon, Mega Aggron, and other steels. Even with Grass/Dragon/Fighting coverage, Sceptile's moveset is resisted by Doublade and Whimsicott, two increasingly common pokemon in the current metagame. With no boosting moves outside of Growth (lol) Sceptile is set up fodder for Reuniclus, and struggles to break common special walls such as Umbreon, Porygon2, and Blissey. Offensively, it's not that hard to check either, given that most common scarfers (Hydreigon, Mienshao, Salamence, Darmanitan) force it out, and most priority moves (Ice Shard from Mamoswine/Abomasnow and Extreme Speed from Entei/Lucario) at the very least 2HKO it. Especially with bare hyper offense falling out of favor in lieu of Reuniclus balance, I think Sceptile is fine in B+, though I would not be opposed to it rising in the future if the meta shifts.

A- -> A: I can see myself getting behind this. Toxicroak may not have the best stats on paper, with a mediocre attack stat and barely passible speed. However, what it does have is a great defensive typing, expansive movepool, and arguably one of the best abilities to have in UU, Dry Skin. Poison/Fighting typing with Dry Skin gives Toxicroak resistances to Fighting, Bug, Rock, Dark, and Grass, as well as an immunity to Water. This, along with its decent base 85 speed, allows Toxicroak to check many big threats in the current meta, including Mienshao, Feraligatr, Suicune, Heracross, Mamoswine, and many others. With one of Toxicroak's best checks, Crobat, seeing less and less usage, Toxicroak has a lot more freedom in its last moveslot, since it often does not need the priority in Sucker Punch. Ice Punch is fantastic in this slot, especially with the prevalence of Porygon2 + Fighting resist (generally either Florges or Gligar) cores. Ice Punch also allows Toxicroak to KO bulky Salamence, which has been gaining popularity as well. And on top of the fantastic physical set, Toxicroak can opt to run a specially based Nasty Plot set with Sludge Wave/Vacuum Wave/Dark Pulse, which allows it to lure and KO common checks such as Hydreigon, Doublade, and Krookodile after a boost. Overall, a great pokemon in the current metagame that has multiple effective sets and checks many common threats, including two S rank pokemon, so I believe moving it up to A would be appropriate.

Well there are a few counter points of yours that I think are not really good reasons to deny Sceptile a rank up. The first of which is your point about Sceptile being walled by whims and doublade. Now I know you didn't say walled but neither of these mons have quite as safe of a switch in as some may think. Hp fire is a very legitimate move choice which can fit over a second grass STAB and does significant damage to both of thse mons, however even with two grass STABs these two mons can be hit relatively well with Energy ball which is a very solid choice for secondary STAB. While you lose out on recovery you do gain quite a good amount of power which allows sceptile to secure a good amount of 2hkos like on offensive whims. This also leads me to a second point in which u claim sceptile is setup fodder for reuniclus, which is very untrue. Modest Sceptile has an extremely good chance to 2hko with eball+leaf storm (this includes the use of a CM by reun). While I will agree scarfers and priority threaten sceptile this can be said about a lot of mons in the A ranks so I don't really consider it that major of a point. Also one thing I forgot to mention in my first post is how sceptile can check both gatr sets which is very important as gatr is arguably the best mon in the tier right now.
TLDR: Many people forget that eball is a very good option for sceptile and really helps with a lot of its flaws

relevant calcs

252+ SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 201-237 (47.4 - 55.8%) -- 22.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 193-228 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 102-121 (32.6 - 38.7%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Whimsicott: 110-129 (34 - 39.9%) -- 33.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (This is bulky whims and even it is almost 2hkod with eball+storm)
252+ SpA Mega Sceptile Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Whimsicott: 196-232 (60.6 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Sceptile Hidden Power Fire vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 184-218 (58.9 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Edit: I have only used offensive sceptile and would say on that set eball is better than giga.
That being said if anyone has experience with the other sets such as sub+leech or SD I would love to see a post on them as I have never given them a try

 

[Vapo]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to say that Whimsicott or Doublade walled Sceptile by any means, just that they were solid checks. HP Fire wasn't really a move I considered since you have to give up Leaf Storm (which I believe is a much better option on Sceptile) but I guess that would help with the coverage. Anyways, you said that Reuniclus cannot set up on Sceptile and provided some calcs to prove that. However, from what I see, Sceptile cannot break Reuniclus reliably at all. Even when running Modest with Energy Ball and Leaf Storm, you would have to get a high roll on the initial Energy Ball (at least 53%) to KO Reuniclus with an absolute max roll on Leaf Storm. Maybe I was a bit off when calling Sceptile set up fodder for Reuniclus, but it really is not far from it when Sceptile has to run Modest and give up two moveslots for Energy Ball and Leaf Storm to even have a chance of 2HKOing it.

 

[ShadowBlizzard]

Can't it learn Ice Punch? Seems like a solid move against Whimsicott especially. Any Ice-types Sceptile can't OHKO it will probably fall to, 4x weakness and all, so Drain Punch is a solid option. Doublade can't be countered with anything stronger than HP Fire?

 

[Thisbemyalt]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to say that Whimsicott or Doublade walled Sceptile by any means, just that they were solid checks. HP Fire wasn't really a move I considered since you have to give up Leaf Storm (which I believe is a much better option on Sceptile) but I guess that would help with the coverage. Anyways, you said that Reuniclus cannot set up on Sceptile and provided some calcs to prove that. However, from what I see, Sceptile cannot break Reuniclus reliably at all. Even when running Modest with Energy Ball and Leaf Storm, you would have to get a high roll on the initial Energy Ball (at least 53%) to KO Reuniclus with an absolute max roll on Leaf Storm. Maybe I was a bit off when calling Sceptile set up fodder for Reuniclus, but it really is not far from it when Sceptile has to run Modest and give up two moveslots for Energy Ball and Leaf Storm to even have a chance of 2HKOing it.

Yeah my bad on the reun thing for whatever reason I was forgetting lefties haha but its still a solid amount and a lot of mons in the A ranks are setup fodder for reun so doing as much as sceptile does is honestly good enough since no mon can beat every threat
Edit: ShadowBlizzard no it does not get punch but it really is not needed

 

[Kurona]

Can't it learn Ice Punch? Seems like a solid move against Whimsicott especially. Any Ice-types Sceptile can't OHKO it will probably fall to, 4x weakness and all, so Drain Punch is a solid option. Doublade can't be countered with anything stronger than HP Fire?

Sceptile doesn't get Ice Punch, no.

 

[ShadowBlizzard]

Sceptile doesn't get Ice Punch, no.

Really only has Iron Tail against Whimmy, but I doubt that's worth a moveslot.

 

[Cantalopes]

Hi, I think Mega Steelix should go up in the viability rankings. It is a really underrated Pokemon, and suffers by comparison with Mega Aggron which has overall better bulk and a better ability. But Steelix has some advantages over the steel rhino, notably a nice stab Earthquake and a typing that allow it to stop VoltTurn teams easily.
I don't say Steelix should reach A+ rank like Aggron, but it definetly deserves a higher rank than B-.

My personal opinion is that the drawbacks are worse than the upsides. Although it walls VoltTurn teams, it has the water weakness that is horrible in UU, especially since there is almost always a water type on every team. It also extremely slow and can receive extreme damage from bulky offensive mons like Mega Blastoise, Entei, Nidoking, and Mega Swampert.

 

[dodmen]

Changes, after we read through all the discussion in the thread::
Mega Sharpedo: A+ to A
Hoopa: B to B+ reading the discussion convinced me, but it definitely shouldn't go any higher
Crobat: A to A-
Cresselia: A to A-
Slowking: stays at A
Druddigon: Unranked to C (hasn't been too much discussion on this but I think it's fairly reasonable)
Mega Sceptile: B+ to A-
Rotom-C: A- to A

New noms:
Vaporeon: B- to C
Mega Ampharos: A- to B+
Toxicroak: A- to A
Escavalier: B to B+
Espeon: C to...B? honestly maybe even B+