ORAS UU Viability Rankings V4

[Christo]

Nidoqueen needs to move down to no higher than B+. Nidoqueen is really not very effective in this metagame and pretty much every tier-drop since gatr except zapdos takes a big dump on it not mention the insane popularity of shuca berry on cobalion, empoleon and metagross. Tbh, even know how its gained a reputation for being a solid fighting or mega-aero check (see calcs below). Unlike nidoking, it doesn't make it into the somewhat prestigious 85+ speed tier, meaning it's easily forced out by common mons like gyarados or mamoswine. Even as a rocks-setter it is unreliable, mostly due to the fact that it loses 1 on 1 vs nearly all the good rocks setters in the tier, krook, mamoswine, swampert, even shuca cobalion 3hkoes with iron head not to mention the fact that mandibuzz easily defogs on it and mega-toise spins on it. Also, here are calcs hopefully showing how it fails as a bulky mon.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Aqua Tail vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 294-348 (80.3 - 95%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Megahorn vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 176-207 (48 - 56.5%) guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 181-213 (49.4 - 58.1%) guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 339-400 (92.6 - 109.2%) 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I feel the need to address this because this because I disagree with most of the points made. To address your first point, it is indeed true that Niodqueen has been a little tougher to use since pokemon like Feraligatr, Gyarados, and Mamoswine have entered the tier. That is why it went from A+ to A-. The two pokemon commonly running Shuca Berry are Cobalion and Empoleon. I would not consider Cobalion running Shuca to be a big negative for Nidoqueen because it wins 1v1 anyway as well as Earth Power doing a ton even with the Shuca intact. Empoleon is now commonly running offensive Shuca Berry as opposed to the previously common Spdef variant. Empoleon is and was beating Nidoqueen 1v1. The Spdef variant had enough bulk to live one EP and kill with a Torrent-boosted Scald. It is true that Nidoqueen is a good fighting type check(idk who calls it an Aero check even tho it does live one hit). Literally all of your calcs prove the point that Nidoqueen is a good Fighting type check, so I'm not sure what your point with that was. I am assuming you are mistaking the term "counter" or "hard check" with "check". A "check" is a pokemon that can come in on a pokemon for free and beat it 1v1, as opposed to a counter, which switches in and beats a pokemon 1v1. Offensive Nidoqueen is not, and never was considered a good fighting type or Aerodactyl counter and never should be played as one. I think a big portion as to why you may not be fond of Nidoqueen is because you are playing the pokemon as a counter to fighting types etc rather than as a check. Keep in mind that it is an offensive rocker and is meant to lay up rocks while fainting a mon' or two. I see no reason as to why Nidoqueen should be lowered anymore than it has already. I think it's placing is perfectly reasonable after some unfriendly drops making it harder to use.

 

[Kalawishis]

I agree with Suicune going to S rank. The fact that it's in A+ is weird to me; the Pokemon is without peer in UU. At least from personal experience, using many different teams from stall to hyper offense, Suicune has always been more frightening than Salamence, Hydreigon, or Mega Aerodactyl. The last three can be dealt with and easily forced out by a check, of which they have many, but with Suicune you have to worry about your checks being turned into setup fodder. On the special side, depending on how many Calm Minds Suicune has up (at least one is likely if you have to switch in your check) it can tank your attacks; setting up and using Rest to the point where your special check is just fodder. Sure, it's not going to have more than one Calm Mind up if you switch in your special check immediately, but if Suicune is faster it's going to have two Calm Minds up before you attack, and if you miss anything or have something piddly like Giga Drain you're done. On the physical side, if Suicune gets a Scald burn off, which is quite likely, then your physical check is now setup fodder as well. Subpar check, you've lost the game.

There's always the Water Absorb/Dry Skin/etc. Pokemon, but those are not common enough in UU to merit a demotion from S. Furthermore, all of them, save Jellicent, to the extent of my knowledge, do not resist Ice Beam, and some do not have reliable recovery, so Suicune can get some damage in on the switch in before switching out if it feels secure to do so. There also are the moves Encore, Taunt, Roar, Trick etc. However, if Suicune has a Calm Mind down when Taunted (incredibly likely if you have to switch in your Taunt mon), then it is not that damaged. It can still use Scald and spread burns or do damage with Ice Beam if it has it. Really, Suicune's always an eye-catcher during team preview. Whenever I see it, I have to keep on my toes for the entire game about it. I can't say I've had to do this for any other Pokemon to such an extent, not in any tier I've played. I'd really call it the universal UU weakness - each team in UU is weak to different Pokemon, but all teams are more or less likely to get swept by Suicune at some point, even those which seem Suicune resistant. All it needs to work is one mistake.

The Smogon analysis says itself, "Suicune is one of the most centralizing Pokemon in the UnderUsed metagame, and for good reason." Nothing in metagame has changed to make it any weaker. Sableye, perhaps, but that is hardly a big enough thing.

 

[Machiavelli]

Although this is getting a bit redundant, I have to be another person to advocate suicune for S for a few main reasons (but not the only reasons)

• It's the best calm mind user in the tier. Not only is it faster than all the others, which comes in to play a lot more than you'd think, but it can even beat some of them 1v1 with roar or scald burns. In fact it is so good at calm minds that it can take down entire teams by itself, and a well played crocune is near impossible to beat without a dedicated counter.
• It is versatile and unpredictable, like every other S rank mon. You can run a bunch of different sets, even an offensive set, which makes it hard to play around. Because of this, you don't know whether it has roar or sub or the like, or even extrasensory which helps it beat other cunes and toxicroak which is probably the most used counter. An example of such a dilemma happened in Hogg's spl game against Hikari I believe, where Hogg could not play safely around Hikari's suicune in fear of roar.
• You don't even need to setup for it to be annoying, spamming scald is more than enough to weaken the opposing team, which proves that suicune is useful at all stages of the game, not only mid-late game. Also, this is why roar isn't a good answer to cune either, it is only a temporary solution.
• It's a great pivot in general to common offensive threats, in the same vein as swampert or other similar mons. I needn't say anymore.
• Encore and Taunt really don't stop this thing. 99% of the mons that use encore or taunt on cune cant do much back to it, and it's so obvious that they will switch out into whimsicott or whatever so you just click scald and get free chip damage or a burn. On that note, I see a lot of people who use whimsicott as their suicune counter, and it is so far from a suicune counter it's not even funny.

The only good argument i've seen so far is that because of its weakness to taunt and encore, it relies to much on scald, which I still think is bollocks anyway because so what if it relies on scald? Scald is a bloody good move, and saying it relies too much on scald and making that seem like a bad thing is like saying people rely too much on breakfast to get them through the day. Of course they do! Breakfast is good for you, why make it out to be a problem?

 

[Cactrune]

I think that Suicune is still one of the dominant forces in the UU metagame right now, but I'm on the fence about ranking it in S. The metagame has grown even more hostile to Water-types since Crawdaunt and Gyarados dropped, and it's more common now to see checks to those Pokemon on teams. Toxicroak in particular is great in this metagame, and other checks like Heliolisk, Zapdos, and Whimsicott are very popular right now too. I think we should take these trends into account before we move Suicune into S.

 

[Kalawishis]

Suicune needs only one Calm Mind to turn Zapdos into setup fodder. If you have to switch in your Zapdos, which, unless you make a good prediction, you will, then Suicune will most likely have a Calm Mind up. From there, your Thunderbolts are only 3HKOs. If Suicune has two Calm Minds up, then Thunderbolt is only a 4HKO, which means that Suicune can take a Thunderbolt from more defensive Zapdos sets, Calm Mind again, then do the whole Rest/Calm Mind procedure until your Zapdos is Zaptoast. Here are the calcs:

68 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 150-176 (37.1 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
68 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 110-132 (27.2 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

What these mean is that, even after Stealth Rock, there is a good chance your Zapdos is not the check you think it is. With Stealth Rocks off the field, which is also likely since most Suicune teams have good hazard control, the chance is even greater.

 

[Cactrune]

Suicune needs only one Calm Mind to turn Zapdos into setup fodder. If you have to switch in your Zapdos, which, unless you make a good prediction, you will, then Suicune will most likely have a Calm Mind up. From there, your Thunderbolts are only 3HKOs. If Suicune has two Calm Minds up, then Thunderbolt is only a 4HKO, which means that Suicune can take a Thunderbolt from more defensive Zapdos sets, Calm Mind again, then do the whole Rest/Calm Mind procedure until your Zapdos is Zaptoast. Here are the calcs:

68 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 150-176 (37.1 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
68 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 110-132 (27.2 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

What these mean is that, even after Stealth Rock, there is a good chance your Zapdos is not the check you think it is. With Stealth Rocks off the field, which is also likely since most Suicune teams have good hazard control, the chance is even greater.

Not all Suicune run Calm Mind in this metagame, and not all Zapdos only run 68 SpA. If you're not already set up, Zapdos definitely poses a huge threat to you. Those calcs and that situation don't take enough factors into account. When a Zapdos switches in, I would rather play conservatively rather than risk my win condition instead of trying to set up on it.

 

[Malin]

I'm gonna play some devil advocate too and ask: what have changed in this meta for a Suicune rise to S rank? I mean we all know how painful Suicune is to deal with but have anything changed to improve its rank? Because from what I'm reading here people are just listing things that Suicune has done for ages, like setuping CM and reliable phazing. It's "versatility" and "unpredictability" imo shouldn't be used as an argument for a rise: honestly, offensive variants can get people out of guard but it isn't an S rank set by any means; Roar Rest Talk can stop and phaze most physical attackers/setup sweepers but leaves it opened to much more threats; CM Roar is really nice and imo my fav set but this role compression really hurts it in a long run. CroCune is the best Suicune set rn ngl but still I don't see it as an S rank right now, as any UU team carry not only a Suicune check but a bulky water check/counter in general.

Once again I wouldn't really mind if it gets up but I'd like to see solid reasons for the bump, as for now I feel like I'm reading Suicune analysis more than a meta discussion.

 

[Kalawishis]

Not all Suicune run Calm Mind in this metagame, and not all Zapdos only run 68 SpA. If you're not already set up, Zapdos definitely poses a huge threat to you. Those calcs and that situation don't take enough factors into account. When a Zapdos switches in, I would rather play conservatively rather than risk my win condition instead of trying to set up on it.

Yeah, but Calm Mind Suicunes make up a good majority of Suicunes (all Smogon sets have Calm Mind as either a necessary move or an option), and physically defensive Zapdos is also a good chunk of Zapdos. In fact, Zapdos' only competing set on its Smogon analysis is its Specially Defensive set, which has zero Special Attack investment. So we can be quite sure that a good majority of Zapdos are liable to fall into the situation I described.

And I agree with malinowski that little has changed in this meta to affect Suicune. That's why it shouldn't have dropped from S in the first place.

 

[Wandering Wobbuffet]

And I agree with malinowski that little has changed in this meta to affect Suicune. That's why it shouldn't have dropped from S in the first place.

Malinowski's whole point was as of gyarados and crawdaunt dropping forcing teams to be more prepared for water types then they've ever been since those 2 mons are such a threat. Since then nothing has changed. People are still preparing for threatening water types as is necessary keeping suicune from being less effective then it's been in the past. Suicune is still threatening but most people are just so prepared to face it these days it can't reign supreme like it has in the past when it was S rank. Keep Suicune A+

 

[Hogg]

What's changed for Suicune?

Aero is super popular right now, which helps Suicune. Hazard stacking is brutal at the moment which definitely helps RoarCune, and Taunt Hydreigon (one of the best blanket checks to the three most popular Suicune sets) is down in usage. Oh, and sets running Roar or HP Electric are also some of the best answers to Gyarados that you'll ever see. And frankly, even during the Daunt suspect test where people were running Tangrowth and Chesnaught everywhere, Suicune was still fantastic, so I don't really buy the "people are over-prepared for Water types" argument.

So yes, the meta has definitely shifted in Suicune's favor, and even at its worst Suicune was always right on the edge of A+/S anyhow.

 

[Kalawishis]

Malinowski's whole point was as of gyarados and crawdaunt dropping forcing teams to be more prepared for water types then they've ever been since those 2 mons are such a threat. Since then nothing has changed. People are still preparing for threatening water types as is necessary keeping suicune from being less effective then it's been in the past. Suicune is still threatening but most people are just so prepared to face it these days it can't reign supreme like it has in the past when it was S rank. Keep Suicune A+

Suicune is very different from Crawdaunt and Gyarados to the point where, although there is some overlap between their checks, there are many points where their checks don't overlap. For example, Porygon2 completely counters Gyarados while being setup fodder for Suicune. From personal experience, Crawdaunt's checks in UU are pretty much anything that hits moderately, outspeeds, and isn't destroyed. A good portion of those Pokemon are setup fodder for Suicune. Mega Ampharos has risen as well as a answer to both Gyarados and Cradaunt, but if it has to switch into Suicune then Suicune probably has two Calm Minds up before Ampharos even gets in an attack, and then there goes your game.

I think what really makes Suicune an S rank pokemon is that if it's on a team, it dominates the game you're playing. You have to make sure your checks are healthy. You have to predict when it will switch in so it doesn't get too many Calm Minds up. If it has Roar, you have to predict when it will Roar so your check doesn't get thrown out on the switch in and Suicune gets up another Calm Mind. If your check is physical and without a water-immune ability, you have to pray that you will not get a burn. Are these original points? Not hardly, but they are points that have stayed true throughout UU. The centralization of Suicune has been largely constant even as the rest of the meta has changed, it still completely dominates.

EDIT: I read Hogg's post and while I haven't really seen anything to the tune of HP Electric Suicune, he makes good points.

 

[Hogg]

HP Electric is one of the best third attacks for offensive CM Suicune, a fairly underrated set.

 

[Nimbus-Skye]

I feel that Rotom-H should be moved up a tier or so to either B+ or A-. Though I'm somewhat biased about him since he's my favorite Rotom form, I have to make the argument that he has a very unique typing along with levitate to protect him from his otherwise 4x ground weakness. The main flaw with Rotom-H is his stealth rock weakness, but I feel that it can be somewhat alleviated with leftovers; people usually run him with lefties anyway. Another flaw is that his only STAB fire move is Overheat, which can be terrible if used incorrectly.

However, I think he fits a role of a bulky pivot whose main job is to come in, check something, and use volt switch to gain momentum. Since most water types (barring the Water/Dragon or Water/Ground types) do not dare to switch in on Rotom-H due to his electric STAB, he can also use Overheat safely if there are no Rock or Dragon types left on the opponent's team. If there are any ground types on the opponent's team who do not take much from Overheat, I'd recommend that you run HP grass on Rotom-H.

My general Rotom-H set looks something like this:

Rotom-Heat @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 52 Def / 60 SpA / 148 Spe
Timid Nature
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Will-O-Wisp

Overheat is for the fire STAB, volt switch is to gain momentum and get some chip damage, HP grass is for ground-type predictions, and Will-O-Wisp is for stopping most physical attackers.

 

[The Heartless Dictator]

Jolteon: Unranked to C-. Mostly outclassed by other electrics, but its speed tier is what gives it an advantage - outspeeding Alakazam is especially nice.

Watch out Alakazam, this Jolteon's packing Pin Missiles!

I'm not sure if Jolteon should be ranked on the basis that it can outspeed stuff like Alakazam. Sure it can outspeed it, but what else can it do that other Electric types in this tier offer that are much better? If we're talking about speed here, Accelgor also outspeeds Alakazam, while also providing spikes and also have a better offensive movepool to take advantage of. Heck, I'd even pick Aerodactyl as a choice in that regard, since it can outspeed Alakazam even before Mega Evolving, while still having more variety with set builds.

 

[Kreme]

Watch out Alakazam, this Jolteon's packing Pin Missiles!

I'm not sure if Jolteon should be ranked on the basis that it can outspeed stuff like Alakazam. Sure it can outspeed it, but what else can it do that other Electric types in this tier offer that are much better? If we're talking about speed here, Accelgor also outspeeds Alakazam, while also providing spikes and also have a better offensive movepool to take advantage of. Heck, I'd even pick Aerodactyl as a choice in that regard, since it can outspeed Alakazam even before Mega Evolving, while still having more variety with set builds.

I agree, Jolteon doesn't have anything else over other Electric-types aside from its Speed, but honestly speaking, it doesn't need anything else. Let's take into consideration this is C-, extremely low where even really small niches like Flygon's and Cofagrigus's are enough to put themselves onto the list. Jolteon's Speed honestly makes it far and wide the best Electric-type to go against offensive playstyles without the need for a Choice Scarf (pretty big considering non-choice sets become quite the hassle for offensive to pivot in and out of) and, while it doesn't provide even close to the amount of defensive utility the more dominant Electric-types in the tier have, it's not exactly got the worst coverage (it's not good, but it's usable enough) and its SpA is definitely nothing bad, so it's not exactly got enough negatives going against it not to warrant a place in C-.

On the topic of other Pokemon having similar Speed while arguably more utility (personally, I wouldn't compare Electric-types with non-Electric-types since they generally can't pivot the same way), those Pokemon are already on the VR anyway, while you may see them as "better", they're not competing with Jolteon, other Electric-types are and with regards to that, the Speed is all Jolteon needs in this offensive metagame. So I definitely support a Jolteon to C- nomination, especially now that Alakazam is in the tier to give it something else it manages to outspeed and the amount of stress it puts on the Speed tier.

 

[flowsociety]

Hi, I'd like to nominate Vaporeon for C. It's a versatile tank, being able to run either def, spdef or offensive sets. It can easily switch into being able to switch into numerous offensive threats in uu.

+1 252 Atk Salamence Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 198-234 (42.6 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 192-226 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Vaporeon: 190-225 (40.9 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 174-205 (37.5 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO



Having the ability Water Absorb and roar allow it to act as a cune check. Roar also prevents mons like cobalion, gyarados or puff from setting up on it, a problem other tanks have. Heal bell allows it to act as a cleric for a team, and it can wishpass to heal other mons, while still have some offensive presence, with 110 base spatk, it can cripple many other mons.

0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 252-296 (76.1 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mamoswine: 284-336 (78.6 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Aerodactyl: 236-278 (78.4 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It can easily be eved to ohko any of these mons.

 

[Nightingales]

Hi, I'd like to nominate Vaporeon for C. It's a versatile tank, being able to run either def, spdef or offensive sets. It can easily switch into being able to switch into numerous offensive threats in uu.

+1 252 Atk Salamence Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 198-234 (42.6 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 192-226 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Vaporeon: 190-225 (40.9 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 174-205 (37.5 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO



Having the ability Water Absorb and roar allow it to act as a cune check. Roar also prevents mons like cobalion, gyarados or puff from setting up on it, a problem other tanks have. Heal bell allows it to act as a cleric for a team, and it can wishpass to heal other mons, while still have some offensive presence, with 110 base spatk, it can cripple many other mons.

0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 252-296 (76.1 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mamoswine: 284-336 (78.6 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Aerodactyl: 236-278 (78.4 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It can easily be eved to ohko any of these mons.

It was just very recently moved down, the reasoning behind it being that as a bulky water, it's just severely outclassed. Offensively, you're going to take away bulk to ohko a threat, which also hurts it.

 

[RyanKoopa]

You know, I really feel like we should just put Suicune in A+ or S and keep it there at this point. Every time the metagame even slightly shifts, it seems like we always have to move Suicune either up to S or down to A+. But considering he is always at the threshold of A+/S anyway, wouldn't it be best to keep him in one of them so we can focus on other topics of discussion which haven't been gone over ad nauseum?

 

[dodmen]

Alright sorry for the late update.

Suicune: A+ to S. Like Hogg said, it's always been right on the edge of A+ and S. To reiterate, S rank does not mean that a Pokemon has very few checks and counters, but rather that the Pokemon is nearly flawless and performing its role, can be used on a wide variety of teams, and doesn't have too many downsides to using them.

Jolteon: Unranked to C-. Outspeeding Alakazam is good enough, also it's not really that weak as it has a similar attacking stat to Heliolisk.

Rotom-H can be annoying, but it's not nearly as usable or good as the Pokemon in B+ and is fairly easy to take advantage of. Regardless, it's still a decent mon and one of the best answers to Mamoswine.

Vaporeon is definitely staying D, even with max physical defense it can't take the hits that it needs to (also the Crawdaunt calc is wrong and I'm not sure where you got those numbers, 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Vaporeon: 257-304 (55.3 - 65.5%)). Anyway, the point is that Vaporeon isn't bulky enough to take the hits it needs to, is far too easy to take advantage of thanks to reliance on Wish, and is severely outclassed by the other defensive Water-types in the tier who have much more at disposal like Calm Mind, Fighting resists/immunities, much greater bulk, and immediate recovery.

I only really have one nomination, that's Mega Blastoise from A to A-. It's definitely a very good Mega and it's extremely annoying to bulky offense and HO, it tends to fall short against any sort of balance which uses Pokemon like Florges, Suicune, Milotic, and P2. Additionally, Blastoise isn't too reliable of a hazard clearer and finds it difficult to both clear hazards and stay healthy enough to check the threats it wants to throughout a game. It would definitely be at or near the top of A- though, for obvious reasons.

 

[Wandering Wobbuffet]

Vaporeon is definitely staying D, even with max physical defense it can't take the hits that it needs to (also the Crawdaunt calc is wrong and I'm not sure where you got those numbers, 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Vaporeon: 257-304 (55.3 - 65.5%)). Anyway, the point is that Vaporeon isn't bulky enough to take the hits it needs to, is far too easy to take advantage of thanks to reliance on Wish, and is severely outclassed by the other defensive Water-types in the tier who have much more at disposal like Calm Mind, Fighting resists/immunities, much greater bulk, and immediate recovery.

He calced it without an item on vaporeon ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Tymano]

The only new nom I can think of right now is that Shaymin can probably move from B+ -> B, It has an abysmal SPL record, and is generally not good enough to fit in with the rest of B+. Heck, it isn't really better than some things in B like Roserade and Heliolisk. I don't have much to say about it but more discussion on it would be cool.

 

[DaSpoofy]

The only new nom I can think of right now is that Shaymin can probably move from B+ -> B, It has an abysmal SPL record, and is generally not good enough to fit in with the rest of B+. Heck, it isn't really better than some things in B like Roserade and Heliolisk. I don't have much to say about it but more discussion on it would be cool.

I think Shaymin has suffered enough drops. Although the meta isn't too kind to it right now, it still pressures a good amount of teams with its high stats and great stab attacks. Being able to live common attacks such as ice shard from mamo and aerial ace from Mega Aero is something that Roserade cannot do. I hate to compare completely different pokemon, but one more thing shaymin has over roserade is that seed flare drop chance. It breaks down special walls on the switch without having to predict. Its a great mon in a bad meta for it, but it is still effective (atleast enough to keep it in B+).

 

[Ramses]

haven't really used mega blastoise much these days, but the times i did use it it was very underwhelming in what it does. as a hazard remover it's got better things to be doing than spinning and as a check to things like entei, you'll never get enough mileage out of it to entertain a serious build around it. from what i can interpret there are just better water-types to run sometimes on a team, like suicune or slowking if you're looking for a check to entei and gyarados or feraligatr if you're looking for something particularly destructive that can actually do something to p2 or florges. a water-type spinner if you're being specific? tentacruel works. tl:dr it's middle ground between a bulky water and offensive water, but doesn't really excel in either aspect. a- seems fine as it's still one of the better megas

since there hasn't been much discussion with the lack of nominations I've got a few points we could all touch on if that's alright

A to A-: With the return of Sableye and the prevalence of other bulky-psychics, especially Slowking who both bring a ton more defensive utility and splashability as it offers itself as a beneficial, more like necessary, water-type that all teams need, so Reuniclus is in a very tough spot in the current metagame. Slowking also preforms incredibly similar roles as Reuniclus whether it be OTR which is really hard to justify using in today's metagame and the defensive Calm Mind set.

B- to B: With spikes stacking teams becoming very common, Qwilfish fits as a nice setter that also works as a beneficial fire, fairy, and fighting-type check that can fill in several gaps at once that a spikes stacking team may have. It's also got nice utility lying in it's movepool with access to Thunder Wave, Taunt, Scald, and Pain Split for whittling down high HP mons like Blissey or Suicune.

B- to B: Aerodactyl is starting to receive the recognition it deserves as possibly the best suicide Stealth Rock setter in the tier as it's very reliable and can actually function beyond that of a suicide lead as it can get multiple turns to reset Stealth Rock.

C- to C: Accelgor fits in a similar vein with Qwilfish. The rising popularity of spike stacking often makes it a pretty valuable addition towards a team, but in this case more offensive builds. It's also got insane speed, Encore, and can "sacrifice" itself with Final Gambit. It's worth noting it can run a pretty fine offensive set as well with it's okay movepool making it a good revenge killer as well.

 

[Morsel]

I personally nominate Crawdaunt to A. The fact that it has so few checks makes it devastating against semi-stall and stall teams alike. It is also not useless against HO, as it packs priority. Having adaptability-boosted knock off is amazing as well, and when banded it 2HKOs most whimmsicott variants, as well as bulky waters like Vaporeon, Swampert and big Luvdisc. Even max defense Suicine loses 50-60% HP switching into aqua jet. Furthermore, its access to Aerial Ace gives it the means to beat its main counter -- Chestnaut.

In terms of its ability against HO, banded aqua jet OHKOs the like of M-Beedril, nearly OHKOs meinshao after rocks, and does 40-50% to most Pokemon in the metagame. Therefore, because of the fact that it has practically no switch ins, and its ability to revenge kill and challenge HO, I nominate Crawdaunt to be ranked A.

 

[Highways]

I personally nominate Crawdaunt to A. The fact that it has so few checks makes it devastating against semi-stall and stall teams alike. It is also not useless against HO, as it packs priority. Having adaptability-boosted knock off is amazing as well, and when banded it 2HKOs most whimmsicott variants, as well as bulky waters like Vaporeon, Swampert and big Luvdisc. Even max defense Suicine loses 50-60% HP switching into aqua jet. Furthermore, its access to Aerial Ace gives it the means to beat its main counter -- Chestnaut.

In terms of its ability against HO, banded aqua jet OHKOs the like of M-Beedril, nearly OHKOs meinshao after rocks, and does 40-50% to most Pokemon in the metagame. Therefore, because of the fact that it has practically no switch ins, and its ability to revenge kill and challenge HO, I nominate Crawdaunt to be ranked A.

I think that you forgot to say the viability of the Swords Dance Focus Sash set against Balance and BO, that can really destroy any team when you setup with Sash.