Metagame ORAS/XY PU (Serperior Banned)

[Grim]

I personally don't think Glalite and Cameruptite are broken.

With a set consisting of Return/Double-Edge, Earthquake, Freeze-Dry, and Ice Shard, Glalie has close to zero switch ins, the only ones being Avalugg and Piloswine (and Munchlax I guess, never tried it). However, it's checked quite easily by all offensive teams because of its horrible typing, leaving it with weaknesses that can easily be exploited. Zebstrika, Sneasel, Raichu, Purugly, Tauros, Rotom-F, and Simipour are examples of popular checks that are quite popular. Piloswine is also very easy to slap on offensive and balanced teams. Glalie can use stuff like Super Fang + Explosion to bait and defeat its counters though, which is pretty nice. I think Anty made a post about that.

Camerupt has even less switch ins than Glalie, with the only safe ones being niche stuff like Munchlax, SpD Vibrava, and Lunatone. Just like with Glalie, it's quite easy to check though, due to its exploitable 4x Water-type weakness and terrible speed. In fact, I dare say half of the pokemon used in the tier can check it, because of that Water-type weakness, along with a weakness to Earthquake, a popular coverage move. As a wallbreaker it's also not really the most reliable thing, because its low speed and the inaccuracy of Fire Blast means it can be potentially stalled out by pokemon like SpD Togetic. Offense, by far the most dominant playstyle at the moment, really does not have a lot of problems with it. Now you could argue that the reason why offensive teams are dominant is because Camerupt-Mega exists, but there will always be things that wreck stall, such as Landorus in OU. Stall is an adapting playstyle, and Munchlax is getting more popular on stall to take on the two mega's. Also, Camerupt only has one viable set; Fire Blast, Earth Power, HP Electric, Filler (Stealth Rocks, Flash Cannon, Flamethrower, Rock Slide, Will O Wisp). That does not affect its viability, but it does make it very predictable.

Edit: Both are also very vulnerable to hazards. Glalie is Stealth Rocks weak, wearing it down very fast, especially along with Toxic Spikes or Double-Edge. Camerupt will always move last, so hazards are a huge pain to it.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

discussion never really got going so I guess I'll post my thoughts now that I have more experience with stuff

Mega Camerupt: ban

Mega Camerupt is in my opinion broken. I don't think I need to reiterate how hard Mega Camerupt hits, but what sets this power apart from other hard hitters like Rampardos are a couple of things.

Firstly, Mega Camerupt has access to two extremely powerful STABs. These two alone are enough to demolish a good portion of the tier. Fortunately there are a couple of Pokemon that can switch into either move, so a good player would be able to predict around either move without having to use an exploitable and obscure counter (Lunatone / Munchlax), although it is a bit of a stretch. What pushes Camel over the edge however is the next part:

Its bulk and typing. With Mega Camerupt's good bulk and typing, it actually doesn't mind being that slow because it can usually take a few hits per game and nuke something. It can easily take advantage of common stuff, come in and use Fire Blast / Earth Power: for example, it takes advantage of bulky Pokemon like Garbodor, choice-locked Rotom-F, Serperior, Ninetales, all of which are unable to do much to Mega Camerupt, allowing it to fire off something. These Pokemon are also usually ones that cannot afford to stay in and get wrecked because they are needed to check something else / as a wincon, but even if we discount that, Camerupt can still fire off nukes at a relatively low cost compared to the other wallbreakers.

If we discount these common Pokemon that can't touch it, M-Camel's bulk still allows it to take a hit in a pinch against many Pokemon. It is very difficult to OHKO Camerupt without a STAB Water-type attack; even weaker ones like HP Water Zebstrika or Scald Poliwrath fail to OHKO it (not that you'd make Camel take one, but it's just to illustrate). What makes it worse is that a lot of common Pokemon that can consistently switch into one of Camel's STABs cannot OHKO it back while being wrecked by Camel's other STAB (not including Water-types of course). Common Pokemon that switch into Fire Blast include stuff like Ninetales and Flareon, but they at best do ~50% with their most powerful coverage move allowing Mega Camerupt to simply OHKO them. Earth Power switch-ins such as Rotom-F, Scyther, and Misdreavus also cannot defeat M-Camel and find themselves getting wrecked by Fire Blast.

I also find that M-Camel sort of warps teambuilding around it. Because of the previous point, I find it necessary that a team needs Pokemon that can switch into either one of its STABs and retaliate back. The Pokemon I mentioned in the previous point, I find, now need teammates that share similar resistances or immunities so that the team doesn't fall apart once it goes down. In addition, I find myself straying away from Pokemon like Scarf Rotom-F and defensive Missy, while resorting to different coverage options like HP Water Ninetales (;-;) to minimize the free opportunities that Mega Camerupt can get by wearing it down.

GrimoireGod, you say that half of the Pokemon in the tier can check it, but because they mostly can't switch in, but the other half that are being exploited now become liabilities when staring down Mega Camerupt. I really don't like having to restrict my team so that I give Mega Camerupt less opportunities to hit stuff for free.

--

Unrelated but Taunt Mega Glalie is a lot of fun: it prevents Avalugg from using Recover which makes it a ton easier to wear down with hazards and / or Super Fang. Give it a shot :)

 

[WildHope]

I still dont see MCamerupt being broken, teams need to adapt to it. Sneasel was close to a suspect in the early XY and now most people want him out of the S Rank (not me), and he only new con is the presence of MCamerupt who can sponge an Knock Off, but cannot even swith into Sneasel because is 2HKO by Icicle Crash anyway. Stall is the style than have the worse match up against MCame and even them can adapt, Munchlax is and easy way to go, not a popular mon befere Came, but not an "oscure niche counter" either, thanks to Whirlwind he isnt a total set up fodder for other threads. SpD misdreavus can take a Fire Blast (if hits) and is inmune to Earth Power, if Misdre take the damage from fire blast she can use Pain Split and evade the 2HKO. Most of the time came can only come one time, because hazards are everywhere and he is slow as hell and have to take hits from everything. Also, if we ban Garbo, Avalugg can become less common and he must be the only mon than cannot hit Came at all and they are the few switch ins than he find on most teams.

Also, Serperior isnt that bad at all against Came, i never see Sub-less serperior, and thats means:
252 SpA Life Orb Overgrow Serperior Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Camerupt: 160-188 (46.5 - 54.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Overgrow Serperior Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 153-181 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Also, you can always try to predict the Earth Power when you opponent know than you have a good fire blast switch in and he thinks than Serp cannot do much.
And that is if the Serperior didnt set up on the switch or the came is revenge killing a serperior than for some reason didnt set up (and in my experience with and agaisnt serp you only use it in the post game and when you know than you can gain at least one boost). Even if Serp cannot kill it, he take enough damage to be revenge kill by pretty much everything. Also, he lose to Aqua Tail Serp with little prior damage, a good lure, making one of the few offensive mons than lose to MCamerutp into a good check.
Also, MCamerutp needs so much prediction to work, if you misspredict the switch you already lose one of the few times than he can come in.
The amount of support than he need, the bad match up than he have against most offensive teams, and others factors make him balanced for the tier, and even more in the Garbo-less meta.


Also, i was using a team of Garbo/Ava/SpDef Mono Foul Play Misdre/RTalk PhyDef Poli/Pilo/LO Sneasel, to get 1500 on the ladder, and thats means being weak to hell to Mcame and i find a good amount of them today in the hands of good people. (And few MGlailie, i only find them with the weak-to-glailie-sunnyteam than i was using yesterday ;_; ).
Do not ban Mega Camel

 

[MZ]

I still dont see MCamerupt being broken, teams need to adapt to it. Sneasel was close to a suspect in the early XY and now most people want him out of the S Rank (not me), and he only new con is the presence of MCamerupt who can sponge an Knock Off, but cannot even swith into Sneasel because is 2HKO by Icicle Crash anyway. Stall is the style than have the worse match up against MCame and even them can adapt, Munchlax is and easy way to go, not a popular mon befere Came, but not an "oscure niche counter" either, thanks to Whirlwind he isnt a total set up fodder for other threads. SpD misdreavus can take a Fire Blast (if hits) and is inmune to Earth Power, if Misdre take the damage from fire blast she can use Pain Split and evade the 2HKO. Most of the time came can only come one time, because hazards are everywhere and he is slow as hell and have to take hits from everything. Also, if we ban Garbo, Avalugg can become less common and he must be the only mon than cannot hit Came at all and they are the few switch ins than he find on most teams.

Also, Serperior isnt that bad at all against Came, i never see Sub-less serperior, and thats means:
252 SpA Life Orb Overgrow Serperior Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Camerupt: 160-188 (46.5 - 54.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Overgrow Serperior Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 153-181 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Also, you can always try to predict the Earth Power when you opponent know than you have a good fire blast switch in and he thinks than Serp cannot do much.
And that is if the Serperior didnt set up on the switch or the came is revenge killing a serperior than for some reason didnt set up (and in my experience with and agaisnt serp you only use it in the post game and when you know than you can gain at least one boost). Even if Serp cannot kill it, he take enough damage to be revenge kill by pretty much everything. Also, he lose to Aqua Tail Serp with little prior damage, a good lure, making one of the few offensive mons than lose to MCamerutp into a good check.
Also, MCamerutp needs so much prediction to work, if you misspredict the switch you already lose one of the few times than he can come in.
The amount of support than he need, the bad match up than he have against most offensive teams, and others factors make him balanced for the tier, and even more in the Garbo-less meta.


Also, i was using a team of Garbo/Ava/SpDef Mono Foul Play Misdre/RTalk PhyDef Poli/Pilo/LO Sneasel, to get 1500 on the ladder, and thats means being weak to hell to Mcame and i find a good amount of them today in the hands of good people. (And few MGlailie, i only find them with the weak-to-glailie-sunnyteam than i was using yesterday ;_; ).
Do not ban Mega Camel

I think this rather misses the point of why we ought to ban mega camel. You listed two of the four mons that can stop it, the other two being Spdef vibrava and Lunatone. The point is though, nothing switches into the camel consistently, and there are no good options for offense. You say that teams need to adapt to it, but how do you adapt to something that only has four switch ins, two of which die with prior damage easily? It makes balance stupidly easy to destroy as no defensive cores are safe, and stall has a hard time doing damage back to it. Also, the reason sneasel isn't as good is not because camel was added, but because Musharna was removed and Poliwrath shot up in usage, king it totally walled by the #1 mon and not the other way around. I won't touch on any other issues (I.e. Typing), as Scorpdestroyer already explained them better than I can.

 

[WildHope]

I think this rather misses the point of why we ought to ban mega camel. You listed two of the four mons that can stop it, the other two being Spdef vibrava and Lunatone. The point is though, nothing switches into the camel consistently, and there are no good options for offense. You say that teams need to adapt to it, but how do you adapt to something that only has four switch ins, two of which die with prior damage easily? It makes balance stupidly easy to destroy as no defensive cores are safe, and stall has a hard time doing damage back to it. Also, the reason sneasel isn't as good is not because camel was added, but because Musharna was removed and Poliwrath shot up in usage, king it totally walled by the #1 mon and not the other way around. I won't touch on any other issues (I.e. Typing), as Scorpdestroyer already explained them better than I can.

Well, if you dont carry Poli/Throh youre team become weak to sneasel because these two mons are pretty much the only ones than arent killed by SD Snes. Four are more than two, and Throh isnt even that good. And if we count checks, MCamerupt have even more, he isnt centralizing stall more than SD Sneasel or NP Ninetales.
And for Luna/Vibra thing, i dont like Lunatone, is the way too niche and can be killed with Flach Cannon that isnt that rare, meanwhile Vibrava can also check electric-types (than arent Rotom-F), and NP Ninetales, enough to make him more than viable in PU if we add MCamerupt to that.
And outsite of the good checks/Counters for Camerupt you can always use some others than arent that good but make his life hard like Mantine, SpD Poliwrath, and even stall out Fire Blast PPs with Licky/Hypno (than isnt even that hard), and also use Sleep Powder on Tangela/Roselia. And at the end there arent that many stall members than are useless against MCamerupt (even less when Garbo leave and Ava loss usage).

MCamerupt is just a good check for Fire and Electric types, and even then, Raichu can carry Surf and Ninetales can even drop Psychock for HP Water (you dont lose much for doing that either, we dont have many walls outside of Flareon and Munch than arent covered by LO +2 FB), most offensive teams dont carry more than one/two mons than cannot OHKO MCamerupt with prior damage. And when people stop using Avalugg and Garbodor how i already say, most balanced teams are going to have a better match up agains him too. Teams than arent stall can choose to not have a MCamerupt switch because by having 4-5 mons than can OHKO him or close to it with little prior damage + SR, and that is easy, i cannot think of many offensive members than cannot do that outside of Zebstrika, Leafeon (if he dont boost first), CM Serp, CB Flareon, Rotom-F (you can always put HP Water in the last slot for the lure) and non-HP Water Ninetales. And is hella slow, even Piloswine can revenge kill it. If an offensive team have problems with MCamerupt, is because they dont even try to adapt, because this one is bad agaisnt every offensive team than isnt Sunny.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Ban/do not ban should be based on the current meta. If people are using Garbodor and Avalugg which allow MegaRupt free switches in this meta, then I'm going to base my ban arguments around this meta.

If you need example of Pokemon on offensive teams that cannot OHKO it: (btw, HP Water from the likes of Ninetales only does about 60%-ish to it)

Hide

Ninetales
Flareon
Heatmor
Roselia
Tangela (cannot afford to Sleep sth else if it doesn't want to be a liability vs it)
Garbodor
Avalugg
Rotom-F
Scyther
Misdreavus
etc

A good portion of the tier cannot OHKO it (and some cannot even touch it), which gives M-Rupt the free chance to OHKO something; you also have to take into account that some of these Pokemon need to be preserved to check other members on Camerupt's team and hence cannot really afford to risk staying in and hitting it.

It's true that you can adjust your team to deal with Mega Camerupt, but it's not that easy. I don't want to have to give up Giga Drain on all my Roselia just to fit in Sleep Powder and then have to make sure I don't put anything else to sleep with it; I don't want to have to give up a better move like HP Ice or Trick just for HP Water on my Scarf Rotom-F; I don't want to have to stop myself from using Thunderbolt whenever I'm using it to prevent Mega Camerupt from coming in for free.

Regarding Sneasel as a comparison, it's different from Mega Camerupt. For one, it actually has a couple of hard counters that fit easily onto a team, especially Poliwrath which is everywhere right now. It also cannot constantly come in unlike how Mega Camerupt can.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Double posting to post my thoughts on M-Glalie. I think it is not broken

Mega Glalie has a lot of common counters in PU. Poliwrath is one of the best ones and it is on almost every team at the moment. We also have very good Pokemon like Avalugg, Piloswine, Metang, and Prinplup, all of which are very good and can fit on one team type or another.

If these counters don't float your boat, Mega Glalie also has a few other flaws. Firstly, it isn't very fast. Base 100 Speed is good but as mentioned before, it is forced out by a lot of Pokemon because it isn't fast enough. To make matters worse, against offensive teams it needs to be careful when Mega evolving because base 80 Speed isn't good enough against a lot of mons. Secondly, it is easy to wear down. Glalie relies on Double-Edge, which is powerful, but gives it a ton of recoil especially when you consider that it is also weak to SR and vulnerable to all entry hazards. This means that Glalie can't come in many times in a battle to keep breaking stuff because it will get worn down.

It is true that Glalie can get past a lot of its counters. Freeze-Dry 2HKOs Poliwrath and Prinplup, while Super Fang + Taunt wears down Avalugg, Piloswine, and Metang. However, Glalie still isn't beating them without a certain amount of prediction. It needs to see them coming in in order to beat them, and these moves are relatively poor moves to use outside of its counters. If it predicts wrong, it is likely to be forced out. In addition, it's not like these moves can OHKO Glalie's counters too. Super Fang forces Glalie to switch as well, while catching a counter on the switch with Freeze-Dry doesn't break it completely (it only does about 50% to Poliwrath), possibly allowing it to pivot out. And as we know, having Glalie forced out is not good because it is forced to take residual damage the next time it comes in.

I find Glalie very similar to LO Tauros: good coverage that can break everything, but it needs to be able to predict to actually break it. In fact, Glalie probably isn't as good due to being worn down a lot faster and being unable to outspeed a lot of common offensive Pokemon.

Do not ban Glalie.

 

[Teddeh]

Well after using mega-camel a lot, i can say a few options about it that may illiterate its banworthy status.
When using camel, literally every pokemon in the tier can outspeed it, it's the slowest thing ever. This includes things like avalugg which are supposed to be forced out by a fire type like mega-camel, but for the fact mega-camel is ridiculously slow.
8 Atk Avalugg Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 166-196 (48.2 - 56.9%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
Hence this means you can't use mega-camel to force out avalugg once it's below 50% This is the worst thing about mega-camel and limits it SO MUCH. Things it should force out aren't being forced out, which include other part ground fire weak pokemon such as torterra, piloswine. The importance of keeping camel at such a high number of hp is ridiculous. To further support this, stealth rock is a move that is extremely easy to get up and aswell as hazard stack with garbodor, it's very easily worn down which means that the chances are during your battle, you'd get 1 chance to fire off a free nuke (if lucky 2-3 depending on how good the player you're playing against is) and that may not even kill since there are literally water types on every single team and most of the time you have to make a prediction to use camel effectively. It's not an easy pokemon to use at all and requires a tonne of thought. That's to say you are bringing camel in, if you're not able to bring camel in with the fear of being worn down, then it obviously isn't very effective at doing its job if you don't want to bring it in to do its job.
Along with this, there is an option of using Mr. Mime for healing wish, which I have used and it makes camel a LOT more viable since its longetivity is preserved and given another life to do its job... However you're then literally forced to run a mr. mime for support and it again limits your choice of pokemon for your team. Also the need for a defogger means you need team support for the use of mega-rupt to be even slightly effective.
These limitations of using mega-rupt really puts in perspective of how much team support it needs to be effective and in my opinion leads me to think it is in fact NOT banworthy. The meta has adapted and water types were on every team before it was around, it's not broken in my opinion.

 

[Magnemite]

bored so i'll make mcride post

mega glalie doesn't really seem broken on paper with its relatively low speed and the existence of avalugg an piloswine, in practice it's aboslutely ridiculous. super fang lets it easily beat avalugg and piloswine, while the speed issue isn't really a problem because pretty much everything on offense gets ohkoed or close to it by return, ice shard lets it mega evolve on things it can pick off, and despite the fact that a lot of pokemon are faster than it, realistically most offensive teams have plenty of slower mons for it to mega against, such as poliwrath, golem, throh, aurorus, tangela, barbaracle, regice, and so on. once you realize that its main flaws really aren't that big of a deal since it just rips through everything else. so yeah, mcride is pretty ridiculous, and definitely deserves to be banned from PU.

mega camel is broken too but i'll post on that too later maybe

 

[Grim]

bored so i'll make mcride post

mega glalie doesn't really seem broken on paper with its relatively low speed and the existence of avalugg an piloswine, in practice it's aboslutely ridiculous. super fang lets it easily beat avalugg and piloswine, while the speed issue isn't really a problem because pretty much everything on offense gets ohkoed or close to it by return, ice shard lets it mega evolve on things it can pick off, and despite the fact that a lot of pokemon are faster than it, realistically most offensive teams have plenty of slower mons for it to mega against, such as poliwrath, golem, throh, aurorus, tangela, barbaracle, regice, and so on. once you realize that its main flaws really aren't that big of a deal since it just rips through everything else. so yeah, mcride is pretty ridiculous, and definitely deserves to be banned from PU.

mega camel is broken too but i'll post on that too later maybe

I wouldn't say it lets it 'easily' beat Avalugg and Piloswine, because you need Explosion and an Adamant nature to actually KO them after Super Fang, and you kill yourself in the progress. Taunt + Super Fang is cool but limits your coverage. You can't just say the speed is no issue, because it is. With its 80/80/80 defenses its not living much, and the Stealth Rocks weakness plus Spikes/Toxic Spikes being everywhere make it even more prone to revenge killing. You can't mega evolve against Poliwrath or Regice unless they're at low health, because Freeze-Dry won't OHKO Poliwrath, while EQ or Double-Edge won't OHKO Regice (far from it), and they can do a lot back. It rips through a lot, that's true, but if you somehow do not KO the opponents pokemon, Glalie is almost certainly dead. And unfortunately, it often barely does not.

 

[WildHope]

Ban/do not ban should be based on the current meta. If people are using Garbodor and Avalugg which allow MegaRupt free switches in this meta, then I'm going to base my ban arguments around this meta.

If you need example of Pokemon on offensive teams that cannot OHKO it: (btw, HP Water from the likes of Ninetales only does about 60%-ish to it)

Hide

Ninetales
Flareon
Heatmor
Roselia
Tangela (cannot afford to Sleep sth else if it doesn't want to be a liability vs it)
Garbodor
Avalugg
Rotom-F
Scyther
Misdreavus
etc

A good portion of the tier cannot OHKO it (and some cannot even touch it), which gives M-Rupt the free chance to OHKO something; you also have to take into account that some of these Pokemon need to be preserved to check other members on Camerupt's team and hence cannot really afford to risk staying in and hitting it.

It's true that you can adjust your team to deal with Mega Camerupt, but it's not that easy. I don't want to have to give up Giga Drain on all my Roselia just to fit in Sleep Powder and then have to make sure I don't put anything else to sleep with it; I don't want to have to give up a better move like HP Ice or Trick just for HP Water on my Scarf Rotom-F; I don't want to have to stop myself from using Thunderbolt whenever I'm using it to prevent Mega Camerupt from coming in for free.

Regarding Sneasel as a comparison, it's different from Mega Camerupt. For one, it actually has a couple of hard counters that fit easily onto a team, especially Poliwrath which is everywhere right now. It also cannot constantly come in unlike how Mega Camerupt can.

And what if unboosted HP water only deals 60%? thats a ton for a mon than is one of the few that are supposed to be a one of the mons with the worse match up agaisnt MCamel. Also, with LO the damage is between 69-83%, and if you are using a diferent item is because you only want to use Nine when she can set up.
And i dont find the Thunderbolt issue that big, prediction go for both sides and you dont want to use it agaisnt any other Ground-Type (and nobody runs 2), in the same way you dont want to give Marowak/Offensive Golem a free switch or Pilo/Torterra time to set up SR (who cut you life a lot) or let them spam their powerfull STABs moves. Nothing new, that happen on every tier when you use a choice locked mon.
For you list: Guts Flareon can deals a good amount of damage with Facade, Heatmor can gives up Low Kick for HP Water, Avalugg can even run EQ and also outspeed MCamel and 2HKO it, CB Scyther deals like 56-67% with Aerial Ace (and him can deal enough prior damage with U-Turn to get the ko), Misdre can SB first and then Pain Split the damage from FB leaving MCamel pretty much halfdead, and the last slot for Rotom-F is pretty much what your team needs, HP Ice isnt even necesary, he isnt the case of a mon than have to use a bad acc move with success.
And at the end, you can even choose to no use this examples, because on most teams you only find one mon than cant OHKO MCamel, and this mean than he can only trade a kill agaisnt most offensive teams, and thats only if he dont take prior damage, and everything can deals prior damage to MCamel because of his lack of speed.
Teddeh already say everything else.

 

[BLOOD TOTEM]

REQUIREMENTS
Minimum of 50 battles
Glicko-2 score of 1750±50 or lower deviation (second number).
GXE score greater than 70

Glicko-2 isn't even tracked on /rank, is this meant to say Glicko-1 or are we after a stat which can't even be viewed?

 

[Magnemite]

Glicko-2 isn't even tracked on /rank, is this meant to say Glicko-1 or are we after a stat which can't even be viewed?

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to say Glicko-1.

 

[WhiteDMist]

Fixed

 

[Dundies]

i havent posted yet about either 3 of these pokemon so here it goes.

First, Garbodor. Garbodor has an amazing typing in PU, allowing it to switch into plenty of pokemon in the tier, and on top of that, has very good bulk. The fact that you can stick it on almost any team and it becomes immensely better is insane. It can spike stack on most pokemon in the tier and keeps a great offensive presence with a great STAB in Gunk Shot and great coverage moves (Seed Bomb, Drain Punch, Rock Blast, and even Explosion). Garbodor also has access to Haze and Pain Split, allowing it to be a great support pokemon as well. For all of these reasons, I think we should BAN GARBODOR.

Mega Glalie is extremely strong now that it has the ability Glaciate along with a base 120 attack stat and is hard to check if you don't come prepared. It has access to moves such as Super Fang + Explosion (for Avalugg and Piloswine) and Freeze Dry (for Poliwrath) to deal with it's checks. Although this is a downside, Mega Glalie is able to 2HKO most of the tier and with a weakened team, there is at times no way to stop it. Because of this, I think we should BAN MEGA GLALIE.

Mega Camerupt hits the hardest of the three of these, with Sheer Force and base 145 special attack along with base 120 attack, but it has many downsides. While being able to easily OHKO or 2HKO almost any given pokemon on a team, it still is extremely slow and has too many weaknesses. Mega Camerupt is easily revenge killed considering how many water types there are in the tier and the amount of weaknesses it has. While Mega Camerupt easily takes out one pokemon on a team if brought in at the right time, it's not worth the ban considering how easy it is to take out. For these reasons, I think we should NOT BAN MEGA CAMERUPT.

 

[Stocke]

Mega Camerupt hits the hardest of the three of these, with Sheer Force and base 145 special attack along with base 120 attack, but it has many downsides. While being able to easily OHKO or 2HKO almost any given pokemon on a team, it still is extremely slow and has too many weaknesses. Mega Camerupt is easily revenge killed considering how many water types there are in the tier and the amount of weaknesses it has. While Mega Camerupt easily takes out one pokemon on a team if brought in at the right time, it's not worth the ban considering how easy it is to take out. For these reasons, I think we should NOT BAN MEGA CAMERUPT.

Mega Camerupt actually only has two weaknesses, those being Water and Ground, but fair point nonetheless.

 

[Grim]

Mega Camerupt actually only has two weaknesses, those being Water and Ground, but fair point nonetheless.

I don't think that he only meant type weaknesses.

 

[WhiteDMist]

Suspect testing is now over and it's time for the PU Council to vote. Let's welcome GrimoireGod and Megazard Z to the Temporary Council this time around!

To all Council members, please PM me your votes and at least a paragraph for each suspect explaining your reasonings ASAP. My tentatative deadline will be in 48 hours.

 

[Choice Banned]

Glalite was dealt with by NU, just saying (for any council members who didn't vote yet so you don't have to waste your time typing up a paragraph for it)

 

[ou hyper]

i wonder why people dont use seaking its pretty good in pu

 

[Choice Banned]

i wonder why people dont use seaking its pretty good in pu

Amazing reasoning for why Seaking is great! For that reason it should be S rank!

Seriously though, Seaking is bad for a multitude of reasons. Between mediocre stats, a lacking offensive movepool, and no way to boost besides Lightningrod (which is for SpA anyway), and some other things I probably forgot about, Seaking is beyond mediocre-trash, if you will. Also, don't believe BT, AV seaking is bad for (mostly, among other things) the reasons mentioned above.

 

[ou hyper]

it's stats may be mediocre but if you put the right amount of evs it survive can and oko stuff like sneasel and it's pretty good in rain too

 

[WhiteDMist]

UPDATE

After two weeks of testing, the PU Council has cast their votes for this new round of suspects: Garbodor, Glalitite, and Cameruptite. Note that ABSTAIN will count as DO NOT BAN due to the fact that if you are undecided after the suspect test, then there is enough reasonable doubt to hold off on banning. Any bans can be revisited in the future, as can any suspect that isn't banned; metagames change after all.

Council Votes

WhiteDMist:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- BAN Cameruptite- DO NOT BAN

Dell:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- DO NOT BAN Cameruptite- DO NOT BAN

galbia:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- BAN Cameruptite- DO NOT BAN

Anty:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- BAN Cameruptite- BAN

GrimoireGod:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- ABSTAIN Cameruptite- DO NOT BAN

Magnemite:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- BAN Cameruptite- ABSTAIN

Robert Alfons:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- BAN Cameruptite- DO NOT BAN

Megazard Z:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- BAN Cameruptite- BAN

scorpdestroyer:
Garbodor- DO NOT BAN Glalitite- DO NOT BAN Cameruptite- BAN

Montsegur:
Garbodor- DO NOT BAN Glalitite- BAN Cameruptite- BAN

TRC:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- BAN Cameruptite- DO NOT BAN

Garbodor: BAN

The closest to unanimous decision was that Garbodor was unhealthy for the PU metagame. The main reason was the fact that the hazards that Garbodor provides, Spikes and Toxic Spikes, centralized the metagame to the point where it was unhealthy. While not impossible to play with hazards on your field, it altered the game in the favor of Garbodor's team. The PU tier lacks good Rapid Spin users, with only Avalugg and Wartortle seeing use (the former is easily stopped by most Ghost-types and the latter is a poor Pokemon outside of Foresight + Rapid Spin). Defoggers are more common, but the more popular ones in Pelipper, Swanna, Mantine, and Togetic are threatened by Gunk Shot and the increasingly popular Thunderbolt. Alongside Aftermath and the common Rocky Helmet item, Garbodor was unrivaled in causing residual damage against the opposing team. There is little opportunity cost in using Garbodor, especially since it fit on every single type of team; the hazards it stacked also threatened every type of opposing team at least mildly. It also had a great defensive typing, allowing to it switch into some common threats such as Poliwrath, Serperior, and Sneasel. Garbodor's popularity did make Toxic Spikes harder to use because you had to deal with opposing Garbodor's (and other Poison-types), but many games could be decided by whichever Garbodor fainted first. Garbodor does have trouble stopping the opponent from setting up on it, and it hated Taunt. Still, Haze and Clear Smog are relatively common options as well, and it usually only needs to set up 1 layers of hazards to make an impact.

With hazards being so centralizing, yet answers to hazards being so mediocre that they are threatened by Garbodor, most of the PU Council felt that Garbodor needed to be banned.


Glalitite: BAN

This was not as easy a decision, though it was still a large majority in favor of a ban. Mega-Glalie has flaws it its poor defensive typing, only average bulk, vulnerability to hazards, and mediocre Speed before Mega Evolving. But it also has several great qualities as well. Refrigerate boosted Return, Double Edge, and Explosion are all extremely powerful (especially the latter). Mega-Glalie can actually get away with having only its STAB type offensive moves, since Ice is such a great offensive type in PU. It has reasonable Speed for the PU tier, and Ice Shard helps a lot against some faster opponents (Raichu, Scyther, Serperior, etc.). Mega-Glalie can also adjust its moveset to deal with its checks and cripple its counters. Super Fang is notable for wearing down Piloswine and Avalugg, the two most common and effective "counters" for Mega-Glalie, to the point where it can actually take them out with Double Edge or Explosion (the latter after Stealth Rock). Poliwrath and Carracosta are threatened by Freeze-Dry, making them shaky checks at best. While thankfully Mega-Glalie cannot run every move listed, its versatility and unpredictability means that it has no easy answer. It can also set up Spikes and cripple opposing support and defensive Pokemon with Taunt. Explosion means that it can deal massive damage to just about anything AND provide a safe switch-in for a teammate.

With the ability to sweep the opposing team with little effort and mitigate its counters with a slight adjustment to its set, the PU Council voted in favor of a ban.


Cameruptite: DO NOT BAN

This was a close vote, but in the end the PU Council voted not to ban Cameruptite. Mega-Camerupt is an extremely threatening wallbreaker, being able to 2HKO most of the tier with its STAB moves alone. It has good bulk and a decent enough defensive typing that it isn't easy to take out in one or even two hits. It's also immune to Electric attacks and isn't deterred by Knock Off, both very valuable assets. Mega-Camerupt makes stall a very difficult playstyle to use, although not impossible. With the tier being so offensively oriented though, Mega-Camerupt ends up having a bit more difficulty pulling its weight. With a terrible base 20 Speed, the only way it would ever go first is on a Trick Room team, which isn't a very easy playstyle to use. It's typing also has an Achilles Heel in Water attacks, which can usually OHKO it. Since it will almost always go after the opponent, it will either have to force the opponent out or else tank a hit before it can attack. This does make Mega-Camerupt easy to wear down, and while it will almost always manage at least one KO per battle, it will usually have to switch out or be sacrificed immediately afterwards. Perhaps in the future, it will be revisited as the metagame changes.

While absurdly devastating in the right circumstances, the PU Council decided that there was enough doubt that Cameruptite will not be banned this suspect round.

 

[Choice Banned]

it's stats may be mediocre but if you put the right amount of evs it survive can and oko stuff like sneasel and it's pretty good in rain too

When there are so many good Water Types that can also do well in rain. Between Huntail, Carracosta, Simipour, Poliwrath offensively, and Mantine, Prinplup, and even Politoed defensively, seaking is really mediocre and outclassed.

 

[Teddeh]

UPDATE

After two weeks of testing, the PU Council has cast their votes for this new round of suspects: Garbodor, Glalitite, and Cameruptite. Note that ABSTAIN will count as DO NOT BAN due to the fact that if you are undecided after the suspect test, then there is enough reasonable doubt to hold off on banning. Any bans can be revisited in the future, as can any suspect that isn't banned; metagames change after all.

Council Votes

WhiteDMist:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- BAN Cameruptite- DO NOT BAN

Dell:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- DO NOT BAN Cameruptite- DO NOT BAN

galbia:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- BAN Cameruptite- DO NOT BAN

Anty:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- BAN Cameruptite- BAN

GrimoireGod:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- ABSTAIN Cameruptite- DO NOT BAN

Magnemite:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- BAN Cameruptite- ABSTAIN

Robert Alfons:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- BAN Cameruptite- DO NOT BAN

Megazard Z:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- BAN Cameruptite- BAN

scorpdestroyer:
Garbodor- DO NOT BAN Glalitite- DO NOT BAN Cameruptite- BAN

Montsegur:
Garbodor- DO NOT BAN Glalitite- BAN Cameruptite- BAN

TRC:
Garbodor- BAN Glalitite- BAN Cameruptite- DO NOT BAN

Garbodor: BAN

The closest to unanimous decision was that Garbodor was unhealthy for the PU metagame. The main reason was the fact that the hazards that Garbodor provides, Spikes and Toxic Spikes, centralized the metagame to the point where it was unhealthy. While not impossible to play with hazards on your field, it altered the game in the favor of Garbodor's team. The PU tier lacks good Rapid Spin users, with only Avalugg and Wartortle seeing use (the former is easily stopped by most Ghost-types and the latter is a poor Pokemon outside of Foresight + Rapid Spin). Defoggers are more common, but the more popular ones in Pelipper, Swanna, Mantine, and Togetic are threatened by Gunk Shot and the increasingly popular Thunderbolt. Alongside Aftermath and the common Rocky Helmet item, Garbodor was unrivaled in causing residual damage against the opposing team. There is little opportunity cost in using Garbodor, especially since it fit on every single type of team; the hazards it stacked also threatened every type of opposing team at least mildly. It also had a great defensive typing, allowing to it switch into some common threats such as Poliwrath, Serperior, and Sneasel. Garbodor's popularity did make Toxic Spikes harder to use because you had to deal with opposing Garbodor's (and other Poison-types), but many games could be decided by whichever Garbodor fainted first. Garbodor does have trouble stopping the opponent from setting up on it, and it hated Taunt. Still, Haze and Clear Smog are relatively common options as well, and it usually only needs to set up 1 layers of hazards to make an impact.

With hazards being so centralizing, yet answers to hazards being so mediocre that they are threatened by Garbodor, most of the PU Council felt that Garbodor needed to be banned.


Glalitite: BAN

This was not as easy a decision, though it was still a large majority in favor of a ban. Mega-Glalie has flaws it its poor defensive typing, only average bulk, vulnerability to hazards, and mediocre Speed before Mega Evolving. But it also has several great qualities as well. Refrigerate boosted Return, Double Edge, and Explosion are all extremely powerful (especially the latter). Mega-Glalie can actually get away with having only its STAB type offensive moves, since Ice is such a great offensive type in PU. It has reasonable Speed for the PU tier, and Ice Shard helps a lot against some faster opponents (Raichu, Scyther, Serperior, etc.). Mega-Glalie can also adjust its moveset to deal with its checks and cripple its counters. Super Fang is notable for wearing down Piloswine and Avalugg, the two most common and effective "counters" for Mega-Glalie, to the point where it can actually take them out with Double Edge or Explosion (the latter after Stealth Rock). Poliwrath and Carracosta are threatened by Freeze-Dry, making them shaky checks at best. While thankfully Mega-Glalie cannot run every move listed, its versatility and unpredictability means that it has no easy answer. It can also set up Spikes and cripple opposing support and defensive Pokemon with Taunt. Explosion means that it can deal massive damage to just about anything AND provide a safe switch-in for a teammate.

With the ability to sweep the opposing team with little effort and mitigate its counters with a slight adjustment to its set, the PU Council voted in favor of a ban.


Cameruptite: DO NOT BAN

This was a close vote, but in the end the PU Council voted not to ban Cameruptite. Mega-Camerupt is an extremely threatening wallbreaker, being able to 2HKO most of the tier with its STAB moves alone. It has good bulk and a decent enough defensive typing that it isn't easy to take out in one or even two hits. It's also immune to Electric attacks and isn't deterred by Knock Off, both very valuable assets. Mega-Camerupt makes stall a very difficult playstyle to use, although not impossible. With the tier being so offensively oriented though, Mega-Camerupt ends up having a bit more difficulty pulling its weight. With a terrible base 20 Speed, the only way it would ever go first is on a Trick Room team, which isn't a very easy playstyle to use. It's typing also has an Achilles Heel in Water attacks, which can usually OHKO it. Since it will almost always go after the opponent, it will either have to force the opponent out or else tank a hit before it can attack. This does make Mega-Camerupt easy to wear down, and while it will almost always manage at least one KO per battle, it will usually have to switch out or be sacrificed immediately afterwards. Perhaps in the future, it will be revisited as the metagame changes.

While absurdly devastating in the right circumstances, the PU Council decided that there was enough doubt that Cameruptite will not be banned this suspect round.

Definitely think that these were the right decisions made :] Shall be interesting to see how good the ladder will be now there is less hazard stacking, maybe less need for defog? More hyper offense now there aren't t-spikers? and fighting types are going to have a much easier time. We shall see.