Resource OU No Mega Viability Ranking Thread

[Clone]

Even tho we don't have a set slate, I eyed through the rankings a bit and want some discussion on these mons and possible rank changes. But before I do, I want to give my thoughts on mew:

AM said much of what I would. Mew definitely appreciates the absence of Sab and the fire Megas (+ a few others), and does its stall breaking job well once again, but it still can't touch prominent mons such as tran, Talon, gliscor, etc, and the knock off and offense spam on the ladder holds it back from truly shining. I feel that A- fits it perfectly - it does its job well when given a decent matchup, but it's not as consistent as other A rank mons, at least in my opinion. It gained some and lost some, to the point where it pretty much evens out. I plan on using it some more since I don't have the most experience with it, so I'm not terribly against a rise of I see some solid reasoning.

I haven't said anything to Celticpride about these yet, but here are a few mons that may warrant a raise / drop (with my brief thoughts attached - will probably go more in depth later). Feel free to agree/disagree with these:

Celebi: A-: it's a great Keldeo counter but it also loses to a bunch of S/A rank threats and doesn't exactly like being weak to dark moves.

Chesnaught: A-: I saw a nom for this earlier and I wholeheartedly agree. Takes knock off like a champ and handles offensive mons like Excadrill and Bisharp, while also soft checking other things and setting spikes. Free Ferro Switchin too. Diancie, Metagross, malt, Venu, etc being gone have really helped it out a ton.

Excadrill: A+: does sand offense really influence the meta so much to the poin where Excadrill deserves A+? Am neutral on this but I've seen noms for it.

Amoonguss: B+/A-: with Venu gone Amoonguss has somewhat filled the void. Great Keldeo check and annoys fatter teams with regenerator, and offense with spore. Leaning towards B+ but A- could also be feasable.

Mandibuzz: B: great Bisharp counter that also takes on sand offense, Gengar, Lando, and even Keldeo (depending on the set). Taunt, knock off, and Defog let it support many balance teams and it loves diancie /malt being gone.

Heracross: B/B+: scarf is a great revenge killer while band/orb sets decimate fat teams. Also Gets free switchins to a lot of the darks/ fat grasses and psychics in the tier to fire off a free Megahorn/cc. C+ is rly underselling it, especially when it's best checks are megas.

Pangoro: C/C+: haven't used it myself but in theory alone it seems to have improved. I'll let others who have used this make the call.

That's all I have for now. Feel free to bring up other things as well.

 

[Martin]

I've played a few games on the ladder and I wanna see Rachi rise. IMO it should be S simply due to the fact that it can fill a bajillion different roles on a team, but I'm going to start conservative due to Knock Off and say A/A+ (for now). Jirachi's stellar typing from gens 3-5 has remained (mostly) in tact, and its bottomless movepool allows it to act as a glue for virtually every team, and, like AM said, most of its best partners are Pokémon which are capable of absorbing Knock Off. Its ability to act as a reliable pivot into such a large number of 'mons is a great perk that it has over Klefki defensively, and it also gives it great offensive utility along with its other options.

In addition to this nom, I am going to suggest that Landorus-I is moved to S+ rank. Lando-I is easily the best 'mon in the metagame right now. With SpD Mew, AV Tornadus-T and SpD Skarm being the only reliable switch-ins for this thing (at a glance) - before considering Knock Off variants - it is capable of shredding key members of teams in one fell swoop with its attacks, and the Rock Polish set is more broken than ever due to it hitting even harder than the wallbreaker set due to being able to run Rash, as well as having the luxury of all the speed and power creep brought along with megas no longer existing - and it was still borked even with the creep there. This thing has no counters, very few checks - most of which need to be in already to reliably check it (looking at you Talonburd) - and is a step above the rest of S rank.

Clefable was is borderline S rank in regular OU. However, with the loss of major checks such as Metagross, as well as the increased importance of Knock Off absorbers (srs that move needs a suspect test badly), Clefable is v. good, being a lot like Jirachi in that it can fill a large number of roles on a team. Clefable --> S

Also supporting Klefki's rise to S. AM covered everything in his post, and it is genuinely one of the best 'mons in the tier ATM.

One last thing: Heliolisk should probably be un-blacklisted. The main thing which made it inviable before was the existance of M-Manectric and the speed creep brought alongside the mega evolutions. With them gone, it has become rather solid. It has a niche as a hard counter to a large number of Water-types due to Dry Skin+its offensive typing. IMO it is B- or C+, but it should be discussed a little more.

edit: Oh. And Zapdos is bad now. Just putting it out there, 'cause it's main niche was beating megas. Also Slowking has lost quite a lot of viability for the same reason, although it wasn't hit as hard as Zapdos was. Also Metagross should be unranked because it is literally worthless now. Zapdos --> C-/D/Unranked, Slowking --> C, Metagross --> Unranked

edit 2: Also, while I agree that Gourgeist-XL should drop, I don't think it should be unranked. Anything which counters Azumarill is v. good in this metagame, and immunity to Superpower+access to Will-O-Wisp IMO gives it enough of a niche over Ferrothorn to justify using on select teams. Gourgeist-XL to D

 

[Celticpride]

I've played a few games on the ladder and I wanna see Rachi rise. IMO it should be S simply due to the fact that it can fill a bajillion different roles on a team, but I'm going to start conservative due to Knock Off and say A/A+ (for now). Jirachi's stellar typing from gens 3-5 has remained (mostly) in tact, and its bottomless movepool allows it to act as a glue for virtually every team, and, like AM said, most of its best partners are Pokémon which are capable of absorbing Knock Off. Its ability to act as a reliable pivot into such a large number of 'mons is a great perk that it has over Klefki defensively, and it also gives it great offensive utility along with its other options.

In addition to this nom, I am going to suggest that Landorus-I is moved to S+ rank. Lando-I is easily the best 'mon in the metagame right now. With SpD Mew, AV Tornadus-T and SpD Skarm being the only reliable switch-ins for this thing (at a glance) - before considering Knock Off variants - it is capable of shredding key members of teams in one fell swoop with its attacks, and the Rock Polish set is more broken than ever due to it hitting even harder than the wallbreaker set due to being able to run Rash, as well as having the luxury of all the speed and power creep brought along with megas no longer existing - and it was still borked even with the creep there. This thing has no counters, very few checks - most of which need to be in already to reliably check it (looking at you Talonburd) - and is a step above the rest of S rank.

Clefable was is borderline S rank in regular OU. However, with the loss of major checks such as Metagross, as well as the increased importance of Knock Off absorbers (srs that move needs a suspect test badly), Clefable is v. good, being a lot like Jirachi in that it can fill a large number of roles on a team. Clefable --> S

Also supporting Klefki's rise to S. AM covered everything in his post, and it is genuinely one of the best 'mons in the tier ATM.

One last thing: Heliolisk should probably be un-blacklisted. The main thing which made it inviable before was the existance of M-Manectric and the speed creep brought alongside the mega evolutions. With them gone, it has become rather solid. It has a niche as a hard counter to a large number of Water-types due to Dry Skin+its offensive typing. IMO it is B- or C+, but it should be discussed a little more.

edit: Oh. And Zapdos is bad now. Just putting it out there, 'cause it's main niche was beating megas. Also Slowking has lost quite a lot of viability for the same reason, although it wasn't hit as hard as Zapdos was. Also Metagross should be unranked because it is literally worthless now. Zapdos --> C-/D/Unranked, Slowking --> C, Metagross --> Unranked

edit 2: Also, while I agree that Gourgeist-XL should drop, I don't think it should be unranked. Anything which counters Azumarill is v. good in this metagame, and immunity to Superpower+access to Will-O-Wisp IMO gives it enough of a niche over Ferrothorn to justify using on select teams. Gourgeist-XL to D

Ok, a few things. First, there will be no S+. Second, AM said Klefki should rise because it assists the S rank, not that Kelfki itself is S rank. Third, I see no real reason for Zapdos or Slowking to drop, let alone that much. There's a lot that they can still do lol. Zapdos' main niche wasn't checking Megas, and AV Slowking still walls a ton of stuff in one slot (Latios, Keldeo to start).

Edit: Heliolisk is still badly outclassed by Raikou and Thundurus.

 

[Martin]

Ok, a few things. First, there will be no S+. Second, AM said Klefki should rise because it assists the S rank, not that Kelfki itself is S rank. Third, I see no real reason for Zapdos or Slowking to drop, let alone that much. There's a lot that they can still do lol. Zapdos' main niche wasn't checking Megas, and AV Slowking still walls a ton of stuff in one slot (Latios, Keldeo to start).

Edit: Heliolisk is still badly outclassed by Raikou and Thundurus.

Ah. My bad on some of those. I guess I was in an XY mindset for Zapdos XD (I see you m-pinsir). Slowking's was more due to the surge of Knock Off more than anything. Probably was a bit heavy with the drop that I proposed, but IMO it should still drop a little. Maybe to B-? IDK something like that. The only reason that I suggested Lando to S+ was due to it just being so good when compared to the rest of S more than anything (as well as it being completely broken in this meta), but I guess rules/traditions are rules/traditions, so discard the point. With AM and Klefki, I skimmed it and that was the impression I got from the skim (probably missed a load of important words XD) - saw S and Klefki in roughly the same place and it clicked in my mind like that XD. However, I do feel that it probably should be S (if not S then A+) simply as it is so good at supporting a large portion of the metagame - most notably the S ranks - and it has a far easier time laying hazards etc. along with a very handy ability to absorb Knock Off and counter Bisharp.

As for Heliolisk, I was a little quick-triggered (see a pattern here?) with such a big rise. It isn't an inviable 'mon like it was before though, being able to switch in on Azumarill's Waterfall/Aqua Jet due to Dry Skin and force it out due to Azu's lack of ability to hit it with priority and being naturally fast. In addition, 108 is a good speed tier without megas' creep, so the reduced speed compared to Thundy and Raikou isn't as much of an issue as it could have been and it helps that it (like Thundy and Raikou) can't be paralyzed, meaning that Azumarill will never be able to damage it reliably once Helio is in, and it means that, with good luring/pivoting, it gets plenty of opportunities to check Azu/other water-types and making it good on select teams. D or C- is probably more appropriate than blacklisted (or C+/B- - cause I'm a little quick off of the mark (as shown by my previous post)), just don't leave it blacklisted.

 

[AM]

S+ is for supreme extreme circumstances, aka not Landorus. It's not an autolose the moment it hits the field and its splashability isn't equal to Primal Groundon in Ubers.

Heliolisk is also pretty ass no matter how you put it. Not necessarily blacklist cause that's only used for when threads turn into copious amounts of garbage but definitely don't see the point of niche that isn't actually realistic when you take into account practicality in that all of these Azu scenarios are just terrible 50/50s and more or less 5/6 games.

Klefki could use like, one bump up in rise maybe. I wouldn't go as far to say something with 0 offensive presence falls under S. It's just not a metagame where a support Pokemon based on support only can be considered top tier.

 

[That Weirdd Guy]

Hey everyone, I am really glad this thread was made, thanks guys!

Anyways, I would like to nominate Breloom for B+-->A-. I really feel like this pokemon is better than all of the other pokemon in B+. This is because of it is effectiveness of multiple sets that allow it to take on some of the top tier threats. The focus sash set allows it to effectively revenge 3 out of the 4 S ranks, and status the forth. 100% accurate sleep with strong technician boosted priority is a potent combination. I know that Talonflame is everywhere, but focus sash Breloom attacks as a solid lure that helps take it out with rock tomb. Speaking of rock tomb, Breloom can slow down fast threats on the force out and KO the slowed incoming threat, or allow another teammate to do so. Life orb is along the same lines, but both also screw over the more popular rain teams. This is more applicable to the sub poison heal set, IF it manages to get a sub up, but I digress. I feel as though this pokemon is underrated and deserves to rise.

On another note, I completely agree with a Klefki rise. This thing is a great spike setter, has prankster thunder wave, screens, and absorbs knock-offs like it is its job. Celebi I can see dropping due to all the knock-offs and, Jirachi I am on the fence for. I have not played much against it, or with it.

 

[Sun]

Hello everyone i would like to nominate serperior for A-/A is a great pokemon ,with the HA boost the special attack and checks keldeo ,azzu,rotom w,with +2 dragon pulse checks lati twins :)

 

[Celticpride]

Alright I guess I'll give some quick hits on my thoughts:

Mamoswine should move to A. It's back to being a great SR setter and the LO set is as good as ever. Also a great offensive countermeasure against Genie spam and can hit common Ice Shard absorbers hard with Earthquake.

Hydreigon should move to B+. Someone mentioned it earlier and I agree it's a really great in this meta. Can really put a lot of pressure on defensive cores quickly. Also works decent against Bisharp+Lando who are possibly the two biggest threats right now.

Suicune to A-. I know it's my ava right now blah blah blah, but CroCune is a boss that lost quite a few checks (Altaria, Venu for example) and also lost competition with Mega Slowbro leaving the tier. Also has the massive physical bulk to go toe to toe with Bish, Weavile and other KO spammers.

Alakazam to B+. Huge jump but Sash Zam and LO Zam are big threats. Zam is now in the top handful speed wise, and its got a really deep movepool that can cripple a lot of things (Encore Bish into Sucker Punch anyone?). Again kind of a huge jump but Zam might be the most improved mon in the meta.

Things that moved up in the other VR thread that are possibly moving up here:

Tyrantrum, hits ridiculously hard with Head Smash and has coverage to support it.
Reuniclus, great in general but even better without Sableye blocking it. Knock Off spam is a thing but B isn't terribly high or anything.

 

[Revenge killer talonflame]

All pokemon benefits from no mega guys.It's really weird to see very little drops and a whole lot of pokemon are being suggested to move up.

 

[Valmanway]

Mamoswine A- ----> A

I definitely support a rise to A at the moment, as the Focus Sash lead isn't screwed over by Mega Sableye and Mega Lopunny, making it much easier to lay down hazards. Plus, being able to threaten Bisharp, Landorus, Garchomp, Heatran, Landorus-T, Thundurus, Raikou, Terrakion, Tyranitar, and Klefki among other things makes Mamoswine not only an effective lead, but also a good check to the mentioned threats. I can't speak for the Life Orb set since it's been forever since I used it, but I don't doubt the great coverage its STABs alone provides, especially when backed by a meat base 130 Attack and good STABs to use. Yes, please raise this to A.

Alakazam C ----> B

I definitely agree that Alakazam should rise and rise high, but B+ seems to be pushing it a bit for me. I kinda wish it could hold both a Life Orb and a Focus Sash, just so it can have both power and the ability to take a guaranteed hit, but oh well. The power that Life Orb brings is hard to turn down, especially since base 120 Speed is almost godlike now, and base 135 Special Attack with decent coverage is neat. But I do like the Focus Sash more, since it acts as a great check or even a counter to a buttload of things, like Bisharp, Keldeo, Landorus, Gengar, offensive Heatran, non-Choice Scarf Latios, Talonflame, Raikou, Starmie, non-Focus Sash Terrakion, Tyranitar, Kyurem-B, and Weavile. But as I said earlier, B+ might be mushing it a wee bit, as without Focus Sash, Alakazam fails to check some of the mentioned threats, but lacking a Life Orb means that Alakazam misses out on some kills against some things, like offensive Heatran, Starmie, and support Tyranitar. This might not be reason enough to argue against B+, but I whole-heartedly agree that Alakazam deserves a big rise to no less than B.

Might post my thoughts on the other nominations later.

 

[SketchUp]

Volcarona B+ or B
Kyurem-B A- -> A
Toxicroak B- -> B
Mamoswine A- -> A
Celebi A -> A-

These are the nominations I posted a few days ago (I also nommed Azu but it already moved up) but I didn't give explanations for some of the noms so...

Volcarona should really move to B+ or even B. I've discussed this nomination a little bit in PM and this is why I think it should drop:

The update on the No Mega Viability Thread is nice but I realy think Volcarona needs to drop. Hazards removal in general is pretty difficult because stuff like Starmie isn't as good as on the regular ladder and the popularity of Bisharp doesn't really help defoggers either. Also pokemon like Dragonite, Gyarados, Heatran, Talonflame, Azumarill, Tornadus-T, Terrakion (all good Volc checks) are very common so setting up a QD is very difficult in the current metagame.

Mamoswine should go A both for its Lead set and its LO set. The lead set is nice because it beats the most common leads bar Ferrothorn 1v1 and despite being a lead it can still be a nice revengekiller later on in the match because of its nice coverage to punish genies, heatran, raikou and dragonite for example. The LO set has a hard time against stuff like Manaphy but if Manaphy switches in on Earthquake [the most spammable move of Mamoswine] it loses up to 80% after rocks. The metagame only has a few reliable switchins to the LO set being Rotom-W, Ferrothorn, Suicune and Skarmory who all either lose against spikes (Suicune and Ferrothorn) or Freeze-Dry (Defensive Gyarados and Rotom-W) Reason why I think it doesn't deserve higher is because the only faster pokemon it can really switch in against is Raikou. Other pokemon can easily beat it when it switches in. Mamoswine is still great against the kind of teams that are pretty common right now: fast teams with stuff like talonflame and thundurus but with a few defensive backbones like Clefable and Gliscor. Mamoswine doesn't have too many issues switching in against these pokemon and breaking down the defensive cores.

Celebi is a nice Keldeo counter especially when you look at the usage stats and see Keldeo never runs HP Bug in this metagame for whatever reason (also hits stuff like Starmie and Slowbro) but it struggles against many current metagame trends like voltturn. Its main job in this metagame [BP] is not really made easy with stuff like Bisharp, Talonflame and Tornadus-T everywhere. Besides the mentioned Keldeo it switches in against Azumarill, Starmie and Gyarados without bounce, but that is about it. Against all the other common stuff it just loses 1v1 and it rarely succeeds to nastypass

Toxicroak should go up because it is a great offensive check to the S rank mons with the exception of Landorus and it is one of the few good offensive checks to BD Azumarill. Toxicroak struggles with bulky grounds but if you compare the usage of these bulky grounds with the regular metagame (Garchomp #1 vs #22, Hippowdon #32 vs #49) the only bulky ground it really struggles with is Landorus-T. Toxicroak is frail but because of its nice typing it can switch in against Scarf Terrakion for example and force it out with Drain Punch. Losing momentum against Toxicroak is pretty dangerous because at +2 Toxicroak is very difficult to stop, especially if you consider Sucker Punch which hits like a truck even without STAB (it OHKOs AV Tornadus-T after rocks for example) and with pokemon like Celebi, Azumarill and Clefable being common bulky offensive pokemon you can easily grab the momentum with Toxicroak and use it to either set up a SD or hit the incoming pokemon very hard.

 

[Jaguar360]

I take back my thoughts on Gourgeist-Super. I used a slightly revamped version of my old Sticky Web team recently to get higher on the ladder and Gourgeist was a key factor to the team's success. Physically defensive Gourgeist does a very good job at handling most of the tier's physical attackers and is the best spinblocker for Excadrill (and blocks bulky Starmie well too). Checking 2 of the S rank mons is pretty cool and it doesn't handle Lando-I too badly. You would think that Knock Off would be a big problem for it here, but it's really not much of an issue thanks to Gourgeist's massive physical bulk, especially once Knock Off reaches its mininum power after Leftovers are removed. It has proven to take non-STAB Knock Offs from the likes of AV Azu, Conkeldurr, Scizor, both Landos and Thundurus well among others.

Many of the flaws about Gourgeist mentioned previously are definitely true though. It is pretty passive; burns and Foul Play can sometimes allow it to get by, but often times it is too weak to put pressure on the team. This particularly shows against Stall and sometimes Balance. It also lost the Megas that it counters and checks being Megagross, Megapunny, Mega Beedrill, Mega Gallade, Megacross, Mega Scizor and Mega Swampert. However, it also gained from the losses of the Megazards, Mega Sableye and Mega Venusaur among others and honestly has plenty to check in this metagame without Megas. It is worthy of staying in C- imo.

I also have two nominations to make based on the Sticky Web team I was using.

Galvantula from Unranked --> D

Galvantula and Sticky Web in general fare much better in this metagame than in standard OU. It really benefits from having Mega Sableye and Diancie gone, since it can set up a web without fear of it just getting bounced back in its face. Its offensive presence is also a huge pro over Shuckle, as it threatens nearly all Defoggers and Starmie needs to think twice before spinning on it. The speed tier, while not enough to outspeed the ever-so-important Lati twins, Starmie and Raikou, is still good enough to set up SW effectively and it can also beat the likes of Garchomp, Landorus, and Lando-T with Hidden Power Ice.

It definitely has some issues though. Defoggers and spinners, particularly Lati@s, Excadrill and Starmie have to be played around smartly since they outspeed or, in Excadrill's case, resist Galv's attacks. This means that the team composition must be dedicated to make sure that Galv can set the web up and keep it up throughout the battle (spinblockers and Defiant mons), and the team also needs the necessities of SR and Rapid Spin support, only giving the team 1 or 2 slots to have a sweeper / wallbreaker for. However, this is quite feasible for a team to accomplish while still being successful.

Talonflame, Bisharp and Serperior prove to be the biggest threats to Sticky Web teams (and Galv to that extent), but one thing that I think many fail to take into account is that good Sticky Web teams shouldn't rely on Sticky Web to be up to be successful. This means that Galvantula can wait to set up Sticky Web later on in the match or not at all. Even if the web is never set up during a match, Galvantula still contributes to the team unlike Shuckle, which at most will set up Rocks and Encore a setup sweeper or something. You can see in the replays that I don't set up the web against teams I won't need it against. Teams also have ways to beat Sticky Web's threats even with the limited teamslots, using Pokemon like Lum Berry Tyrantrum, Low Kick Bisharp, Mamoswine, Weavile, Lucario and others (like the one below I'm about to nominate).

I'm not sure if I explained this nom so well, so maybe the replays will help. While I feel that Galv is at least on par with Shuckle, Galvantula should go to D rank for now.

Zygarde from C- --> C / C+
Zygarde seems a lot better now that its competition from the 4 bulky Mega Dragon Dancers has been removed and it's a really cool check to Bisharp and Talonflame. I've been using this set to get great bulk while outspeeding Starmie and Raikou after one Dragon Dance and Adamant Bisharp unboosted. With Sticky Web support, it outspeeds all grounded Choice Scarf users as well after DD.

Zygarde @ Lum Berry
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Extreme Speed

Now, what does Zygarde have over Dragonite or Garchomp? Unlike Dragonite, Zygarde resists Stealth Rock, does not rely on its ability to check threats or set up on them (Zygarde practically doesn't have an ability in OU lol), gets STAB on Earthquake and has room for Edgequake coverage. Garchomp lacks Dragon Dance or priority and is a tad less bulky than Zygarde. The only thing to really be compared here is their typing and stats.

Zygarde also has its SubCoil and support threats to consider, but I have no idea how these fare in the metagame yet. Fairly simple nom here, Zygarde to C/C+.

In the replays, I wasn't really able to face great opponents or anything since the players higher than me on the ladder apparently weren't there or just didn't cross my path, but they are still great for showing Sticky Web in action, with Gourgeist and Zygarde also playing their roles.

Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-229122480
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-229123770
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-229125229
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-229129476

From the link to my post in the No Mega ladder thread (thus older):
Dealing with Serp: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-218227865
Close battle: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-218445479
Gourgeist stops a sweep and spinblocks: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-218447014

 

[Albacore]

I'm sorry but Sticky Web isn't just something you can slap on a team and be done with it any more than Rain or even Trick Room. It requires a very specific teambuild becuase of the amount of stuff webs make your vulnerable to, it neccecitates multiple teamslots to handle those things and just cannot afford to have the webs setter and the SR setter to be a different Pokemon as a result. As an offensive threat, Galvantula is really, really mediocre and will almost never be able to set up webs unless it's Sashed, and if it is sashed it's pathetically weak and basically achieves nothing. The problem with Galvantula never was Magic Bounce users, if anything it handles those much better than Shuckle. The poblem is that on dedeicated SW teams Shuckle is better, and on any other team, SW isn't something worth running at all.

Speaking of which, since SW relied heavily on mega wallbreakers like Heracross and Mega Garchomp, and Serperior and Bisharp are a lot better here, it's probably even worse than it was in OU ladder, so Shuckle could potentially drop. Then again, Sableye and Diancie not being here is probably a good thing.

 

[Karxrida]

Like Albacore said Magic Bounce was never a factor in Galvantula's ranking or lack thereof, as it was deemed unviable long before ORAS came out (or announced?). Galvantula is just worthless if you're against a team that doesn't care about Webs as it's outclassed by Thundurus, Raikou, and even Thundurus-T as an offensive Electric. At least Shuckle can at set Rocks more than once thanks to its bulk or prevent it from being setup bait thanks to Encore.

 

[p2]

Chesnaught definitely deserves to rise to A-. It's one of the best Knock Off absorbers in the tier and is capable of countering Bisharp, Crawdaunt, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Lando-T, Breloom, Gyarados lacking Bounce, Hippo lacking Toxic, Tyranitar and it just checks so much more. Plus it's one of the more reliable spike setters or can annoy teams with Leech Seed + Spiky Shield. I could go on and on, but I really don't think I need to.

 

[Celticpride]

Update #2

Klefki to A
Mamoswine to A
Celebi to A-
Chesnaught to A-
Amoongus to B+
Hydreigon to B+
Alakazam to B
Mandibuzz to B
Toxicroak to B
Heracross to B-
Infernape to B- / C+
Tyrantrum to B-
Blissey to C+
Pangoro to C+

Seems like a lot but really isn't. Really brief outline.

Explanation

Klefki is great on HO, which is really strong right now.
Mamo breaks a ton of stuff down and can run sash again.
Celebi is kinda meh overall.
Ches is a great KO absorber and Bish check.
Amoongus checks Azu and some other key stuff but mostly Azu.
Hydri is awesome due to less (if any?) faster Fairies being around to take STABs /coverage.
Zam is fast as hell and overall powerful.
Mandi is just very solid right now.
Croak checks BD Azu really well.
Hera / Nape / Pangoro all are more useful due to less overall competition from Fighting Megas, and other factors (Goro has Knock Off, Nape checks Bish and has insane versatility).
Tyrantrum hits like a truck and has a decent speed tier to as well.
Blissey is less threatened by Knock Off than Chansey.

I know user SketchUp feels like Volc should drop to B+ but its still much more threatening from sweeping perspective than pretty much all of B+. Its checks, such as DNite, have gained more relevance, but it also doesn't have to deal with Altaria and giving turns to Altaria which is huge so I'm holding off on that for now.

Discussion topics are Reuniclus (lack of Sableye, increase is Dark type checks) and Venu getting ranked (Mega Venu lite that handles BD Azu really well). Also, there's probably some unranked stuff that has some mileage now. About 28-32 things were taken off the list and that's not accounting for Doublade and things of that nature. I'll look at usage stats but I'd like to hear some thought on the more niche stuff. Might add more later.

 

[Funbot28]

Should Clefable be ranked S, due to it being so in regular OU?

 

[AM]

Should Clefable be ranked S, due to it being so in regular OU?

The two ranking threads are separate. They don't need to match.

 

[Clone]

I would need to see a very strong case anyways because Clefable hasn't exactly benefitted from the increase in Bisharp and Sand Offense + I don't feel it's S worthy to begin with. If Yall want to make a case for it, go ahead. I'll talk to Celtic about it.

 

[ボーイ]

I don't know if it's too much to ask since I'm actually really new to OU no mega, but one thing I've quickly picked up is that all pokemon are susceptible to Gothitelle's move: trick. Is that good enough a reason for Goth to rise?

 

[pika pal]

I don't know if it's too much to ask since I'm actually really new to OU no mega, but one thing I've quickly picked up is that all pokemon are susceptible to Gothitelle's move: trick. Is that good enough a reason for Goth to rise?

Not sure that would do much to move it up for that reason. Shadow Tag means Goth never had to take the risk of something like Trick Scarf Latios in locking itself in if the opponent went to their Mega, and Gothitelle remains mostly a Stall Stopper.

That said, the absence of Stall Megas like Sableye might help it since that's a big member for the playstyle that it couldn't do anything to before.

 

[Celticpride]

Guess I'll post some stuff in an effort to generate some discussion:

Excadrill to A+: personally, I've had a ton of success with Sand. Less to do with Exacdrill specifically being better I guess but it is the cornerstone of gen 6 Sand offense. Spinning is also slightly more valuable as a whole, and there's only a handful of viable spinners compared to the larger Defoggers.

Diggersby to A-: Not so sure on this one, but post-ORAS Diggers has a ton of options has a TON of options. QA + SD + STABs is pretty good, and it has a huge amount of options for more AoA sets (maybe all-out wallbreaking sets? Like SD + Fire Punch + STABs, 4 attacks, basically sets that forgo QA for coverage). The notable exit of some strong wallbreakers may merit a rise for Diggers.

Crawdaunt to B+: Not so sure about this either, but Adaptability Knock Off pairs so well with Bisharp in wearing down each others checks it may merit a rise up. Adaptability Craw has always been more of a "just play around it" mon in general, and that's still true here. Again, less pure wallbreakers may benefit Craw.

Those latter two are also a result of myself personally playing around with some BL mons, some of who may have been impacted by general power creep more than others. Again, just thoughts feel free to contest or whatever.

Speaking to that one comment about lots of rises and few / no drops, well the VR list that was used as an initial basis for this topic was filled with Megas in the higher ranks and overall (26+, skewing heavier towards the A / S rank). The longer term plan if I had to lay it out would be focus on a lower C/D rank revamp with enough interest (not too much interest from the community atm, so probably not in the near to intermediate future) which would involve the dropping of the "Doublades" so to speak, and look more at some other stuff (Slurpuff seems interesting). So yeah this project is very much still in the earlier stages and there's things to sort out still.

As always feel free to discuss things outside of the "agenda" so to speak, very flexible on that front.

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

Some lower stuff:

Nominating Xatu for D/C- rank It functions for stall teams similar to how mega sabeleye did but far less effective.

Nonetheless it allows you to stop common stallbreakers sabeleye, taunt gliscor and taunt mew. It stops spike stacking from ferro, chestnaught forretress among others. Also prevents SR from bulkier setters like jirachi, celebi, hippo. Also can wall most weaker stall teams. Low stats but lot of good viable move options: Air slash brave bird, wish, thunder wave, heat wave etc...

Baton pass also seems more effective in this meta as there are less powerful attackers so its easier to boost
Hence I suggest bumping smeargle espeon and scolipede up.

 

[Karxrida]

Some lower stuff:

Nominating Xatu for D/C- rank It functions for stall teams similar to how mega sabeleye did but far less effective.

Nonetheless it allows you to stop common stallbreakers sabeleye, taunt gliscor and taunt mew. It stops spike stacking from ferro, chestnaught forretress among others. Also prevents SR from bulkier setters like jirachi, celebi, hippo. Also can wall most weaker stall teams. Low stats but lot of good viable move options: Air slash brave bird, wish, thunder wave, heat wave etc...

Baton pass also seems more effective in this meta as there are less powerful attackers so its easier to boost
Hence I suggest bumping smeargle espeon and scolipede up.

Baton Pass is illegal with Magic Bounce since it came from XD.

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

Baton Pass is illegal with Magic Bounce since it came from XD.

Sorry if that confused you.

I realize its illegal on xatu those are 2 separete nominations. Xatu

then

Baton pass teams are pretty good in general.