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OU Playstyles - Week #06 [Hail Stall] - READ OP FIRST!

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by LilOuOn, Mar 16, 2013.

?

What playstyle do you want next week?

Poll closed Mar 22, 2013.
  1. Rain Stall

    6 vote(s)
    14.3%
  2. Weatherless Offense

    12 vote(s)
    28.6%
  3. Sand Balance

    9 vote(s)
    21.4%
  4. Trick Room

    15 vote(s)
    35.7%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    650
    Approved by Haunter, Birkal and Huntofthelion​

    OU Playstyles

    By LilOu. With some collaboration of Stoned RG. Special thanks to Shurtugal.

    Welcome to the OU discussion of the different playstyles! The main purpose of this thread is to choose a playstyle every week (I'll choose it) and you, (yes, you), are going to be able to comment, give your opinion and suggest pokemons that should be considered when making a team around the style [posting teams is also allowed, just keep in mind that this is not the RMT forums, so if you want to post a team try to make it short and use sprites of pokes, explain how does the team work and post replays if possible]. Obviously, your comments must have connection with the chosen style, as well as solid arguments of why your comment(s) are valid. With this, newer players can decide what playstyle they like most and, of course, more experienced players can also expand their knowledge. Remember to be friendly with other people; if you disagree with someone's opinion don't slam with an aggressive response, just let everyone know what you think in a kind way. The links to discussions of each playstyle will be posted in the OP so everyone can read it at anytime!

    Don't be afraid of posting! If you have a great offense, stall, etc team, just think about what to say and go for it! Don't forget that participating in this kind of threads gives you opportunity to earn that awesome Community Contributor([​IMG]) badge! Be careful of what you do post! Quality posts will be rewarded, but mediocre comments will be infracted. Do your best and I hope that you like to contribute this thread!


    Summary of the rules (Must read):
    • Make quality posts. No one-lined posts.
    • Your comments must be about the weekly playstyle chosen.
    • No gimmicks. If you decided to post a team (or pokemon) don't suggest using pursuit Tauros to trap Celebi or Latios while there is an overall better option named Tyranitar.
    • Comment how the chosen style affects the current metagame and how it fares in it.
    • Support your team's posts with replays if possible. Explanation of them are a must.
    • Having a wide point of view is needed. Don't post that stall sucks because you always lose to it.
    • Your new ideas must have strong arguments of why them should be considered.
    • This one is important: We don't want this to become a debate of: "this metagame is stale and has no diversity due to weather". This thread is here to make a discussion about the different playstyles, not to discharge all your hate against weather. Please, incoherent posts will be deleted and possibly penalized, so think about what are you going to write.


    Sets suggestions: (New)

    If you are going to post a set, you must follow this format:

    Here a complete example:

    Also, if you are going to post the sprite, I'd really appreciate if you use Smogon's images (the ones that are not moving), this is just because it is really hard to search all images (start a google search with "Latias Smogon", then click the link, then Right Click, then copy image URL and then paste), so it would be really great if you can do that for me. :]
    [​IMG] <3 Latias is sexy.


    Past Discussions:

    • Week #01 (February 8, 2013 - February 15, 2013): Hyper Offense
    • Week #02 (February 15, 2013 - February 22, 2013): Sand Offense
    • Week #03 (February 22, 2013 - March 1, 2013): Rain Offense
    • Week #04 (March 1, 2013 - March 8, 2013): Sand Stall
    • Week #05 (March 8, 2013 - March 16, 2013): Sun Offense


    Week #06: Hail Stall

    [​IMG]

    So welp, time for hail stall. I could repeat a lot of the stuff I said in sand stall, since it has very similar traits, and by many I mean 1: 6.25% residual damage every turn. One of the key things to remember when building a hail team (note: not specifically hail stall) are the massive amount of threats to the weather itself, namely [Lil will erase this] and [Lil will erase this]. Its arguably the hardest team style to play, since your own walls are eating residual damage every turn most of the time (are you using ice -type walls (bar aboma and walrein)? rofl), but it still represents a mayor annoyance to a lot of offensive teams out there.

    That was a lot of rambling, so anyways, what are the walls that benefit a hail team the most and that benefit FROM hail? What spinners should be used, since it IS mandatory in a hail team? And finally, the same question as in sand, should it be full stall or semi-stall, focused on the late game sweep of an offensive poke (any ice-dragons out there? :]) ?

    By Stoned RGay, Lil's comment: you are crazy dude lol :]

    ***What I want to see here is discussion. It's ok to post sets, but posting sets is not the main purpose. If you want to suggest a Pokemon, I strongly recommend to first give your thoughts about the topic and THEN post your suggestion.
  2. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    650
    Archive:​


    Pokemons
    Check this (open)

    [​IMG]
    Kyurem @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    52 HP / 220 SpA / 236 Spe
    Modest nature
    - Substitute
    - Blizzard / Ice Beam
    - Roost
    - Earth Power



    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Protect / Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Ice Shard
    - Giga Drain



    [​IMG]
    Landorus-T (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 212 Def / 96 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn



    [​IMG]
    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Roar
    - Lava Plume
    - Toxic / Earth Power
    - Protect



    [​IMG]
    Nidoqueen (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Toxic Spikes / Stealth Rock
    - Roar / Dragon Tail
    - Earth Power
    - Blizzard



    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Psyshock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover



    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overcoat
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes / Stealth Rock
    - Volt Switch
    - Gyro Ball



    [​IMG]
    Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 52 HP / 220 Atk / 236 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Tail
    - Hone Claws
    - Roost



    [​IMG]
    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Dragon Tail
    - Taunt
    - Waterfall



    [​IMG]
    Empoleon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Scald
    - Toxic / Roar
    - Protect / Ice Beam



    [​IMG]
    Walrein @ Leftovers
    Trait: Ice Body
    EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 20 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Substitute
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Blizzard / Surf / Roar / Brine / Super Fang



    [​IMG]
    Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Posion Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 64 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Substitute
    - Protect
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic / Taunt / Ice Fang



    [​IMG]
    Reuniclus @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 SpA
    Quiet nature
    - Trick Room
    - Psyshock
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast / Hidden Power [Fire]



    [​IMG]
    Latias @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Roost
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Roar



    [​IMG]
    Cloyster @ Leftovers
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 Def
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes/Toxic Spikes
    - Icicle Spear
    - Surf





    Teams!
    jpw234's team (open)

    Hail Stall by jpw234

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]





    Remember that you can post teams, BUT your team needs the following things:
    • Relation with the chosen playstyle.
    • A good peak on Pokemon Online or Pokemon Showdown!
    • A RMT with more than 10 luvdiscs.
    • A good explanation.

    An example of this is this. Please, don't post a team just because you want. Check Tobes' team and his explanation about it to see if you have what it is needed.
  3. UncleDrew

    UncleDrew

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Hail stall is one of those playstyles that you don't see too often, but when used correctly can be very effective and fun to play with. Abomasnow has a very favorable matchup against Politoed, which is incredibly useful in this rain-filled OU metagame. I haven't played Hail stall that much, just with a couple teams here and there, but one common Pokemon I love to use is the SubRoost Kyurem. SubRoost Kyurem not only has good bulk, but can actually bring some offense to the table for your Hail Stall (if you aren't dedicated to a no offense whatsoever stall :P) Another thing going for Kyurem is that it functions well with its ability in Pressure to PP stall as well. Support wise, Kyurem appreciates Rapid Spin as it's 2x weak to Stealth Rock's and Kyurem definetly wants Toxic Spikes support but then again what stall team doesn't?


    [​IMG]
    Kyurem @ Leftovers
    Pressure
    52 HP / 220 SpA / 236 Spe
    Modest
    - Substitute
    - Blizzard / Ice Beam
    - Roost
    - Earth Power
  4. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,956
    i wasn't really aware hail stall existed outside of the lady bug team. regardless if you're gonna have hail you gotta have

    [​IMG]
    FATSO (Abomasnow) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Protect / Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Ice Shard
    - Giga Drain

    my favorite aboma set, and probably also the one that works best on hail stall since ebelt dies really fast. da fatso can actually be really annoying if your opp lacks a grass type because then they're kinda stuck getting their hp sapped mad fast. protect is better imo to stall longer and scout choiced stuff but sub also works if you want to dodge status (like if you lack a cleric sub would be a good choice). ice shard is nice for picking off weakened lando mence dnite etc., giga drain sucks up even more hp and also annoys the other weather starters minus ninetales. speaking of weather starters, sassy makes aboma slower than any other starter so you get your hail up first. kinda cute, like lady bug.
  5. Zentrius

    Zentrius

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    97
    Hail is not as good as Rain, Sun and Sand in this metagame, but it could be deadly if it's played correctly. A huge portion of Hail Teams made this metagame are extremely weak to Terrakion and Heatran. Honestly, if you are planing on doing a Hail Stall, you will need Gliscor, Skarmory or Landorus-T to stop Terrakion and bulky Water-Types to stop Heatran, even Heatran walls opposing Heatran that lack Earth Power. I would like to say that Landorus-T and Heatran is such an amazing core for a Hail Team, when teamed up with Abomasnow, those three cover each others weakness flawlessly, Heatran specially being an important team member, walling a great portion of the Sun teams roaming around the tier, and we all know that Sun Offense destroys every kind of Hail team without Heatran/Latias (and even then Latias has it rough). You then would put a spinner, Forretress actually works pretty good with Heatran on the team and it also has both Spikes and Toxic Spikes to set up. And if you see Landorus as a huge threat, Mandibuzz actually sees little use in OU, but in this metagame infested of powerfull special attackers, is actually amazing, walling Sheer Force Landorus with ease, and it's a great addition to a Hail Stall team since it has overcoat.

    [​IMG]
    Landorus-T (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 212 Def / 96 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn

    [​IMG]

    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Roar
    - Lava Plume
    - Toxic / Earth Power
    - Protect

  6. Onicon

    Onicon

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,044
    One of the most common fallacies for Hail teams is to have their team built too one-dimensional which leaves them vulnerable to one or even multiple types - usually Fighting and Fire, but also entry hazards. Bulky waters, especially those who resist Fighting, synergize well with the more common offensive types of hail teams and patch up its weaknesses with minimal effort. In general, one should not focus too much on abusing Hail like there is no tomorrow but carefully build ones team around ones offensive core while stall teams should first consider more mundane options before resorting to weather dependent Ice Body walls.

    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Psyshock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover

    Starmie is one of the so much needed spinner and also a fantastic glue to Ice, being resistant to Fighting, Fire and Steel. It has some special qualities that makes it appealing over other water types, mainly being able to absorb stray Scalds without being permanently crippled for the rest of the game. As a spinner it has the quality by being able to break Gengar effortlessly.
    Since it is supposed to sponge incoming attacks, more bulk is very much appreaciated. This one should be paired with an Abomasnow with is able to take on Jellicent as it lacks a mean to hurt it. The SubSeeder is fine as long as it does not get burned and the Mixed Attacker with Giga Drain can feast on its large body of HP (and elegantly 2HKO it thanks to Hail).
    Overall Starmie is a valuable asset to most Hail teams because of the number of roles is provides in just one team slot. Just do not overstrain it because 60 base HP is not the best of the best, even with access to Recover.

    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overcoat
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes / Stealth Rock
    - Volt Switch
    - Gyro Ball

    Another spinner, but not without its own qualities. Its steel typing allows it to absorb a few Dragon moves and its high defense stat counterweights the lack of Fighting and Rock resistance, because Fighting and Rock moves usually are physically inclined. It has a few quirks in its movepool, too, being the only spiker with a switching move and thus is a valuable backbone for more offensive teams. Overcoat is chosen because Sturdy wouldn't last for very long in hail.
    Forretress isn't fireproof, so a bit backup is neccesary. That shouldn't be very difficult as we think that Heatran is quasi mandatory. Wish Passer are also appreciated, special to Vaporeon who can absorb Scalds with its ability.
    Forretress also can carry a Custap Berry to launch a last resort Rapid Spin or to revenge kill careless Gengars and Terrakions. If so, it may be advised to run Sturdy in order to creep over the threshold by Hail.
  7. TaBuu

    TaBuu

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    493
    Hail Stall is pretty much the only viable style for Hail as of now in BW2. I'm actually really hoping for a major Buff for the Hail department as Hail definitely has some potential. Hail Offense isn't too much of an option as they lack some serious Hail Abusers (They don't have things like "Hail Force" or "Swift Snow") and when you look at common Hail Abusers anyway, they seem to have some massive defensive bulk (lookin' at you Kyurem).
    Although it may look bad that Hail is kind of one-dimensional, Hail Stall is a very suitable playstyle and even when buffs occur I feel that Hail Stall will be a lasting style for any Hail team. Let's account for the residual Hail damage that occurs. If you aren't Ice-Type or don't have Magic Guard, you will be taking some Hail damage. In OU there are about ... 2-3 Ice Type Pokemon? Everything else will have to endure some residual damage regardless and it really sucks. Things such as Terrakion, Landorus or Lucario who loved abusing Life Orb and not caring about residual Sand, might have to reconsider their longevity in battle as Life Orb and Hail will be racking up to about 12% each turn.
    Hail's impact on the OU Metagame? Not really huge enough be considered a "moving ad shifting" force this generation. However, Hail has picked up some steam in the past and has really begun to break out with many new ideas. Regardless Hail Teams can only be so original. Hail Teams still follow a "formula" which basically is [Abomasnow+Rapid Spinner of Choice+Bulky Physical Wall+Abusers].

    If we were to look at the face of Hail Stall, there is none other than the infamous Kyurem-Black:
    [​IMG]
    EVs: 52 HP/220 Attk/236 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    Trait: Teravolt
    Item: Leftovers
    Moves: Substitute/Dragon Tail/Roost/Hone Claws

    The premise here really revolves around Hail Stall. With Entry Hazards, Hail and Kyurem-B's big tail smackin' you in the face everytime, the opposing team will really struggle to break you down. Kyurem-B has phenomenal bulk, immune to Hail damage and massive power. Once a Substitute is set-up Dragon Tails can be used to phaze Pokemon out and make them eat residual damage. Roost is used to keep your Kyurem-B nice and healthy for the next 50-1000 turns that it takes to defeat your team. Finally Hone Claws. Increasing the accuracy of Dragon Tail and powering up his Attack stats, really will leave some wounds on teams.

    Kyurem-B is truly a behemoth that Hail loves to show-off and it really fits in with the whole Hail Stall concept.
  8. Cinco Diablo

    Cinco Diablo

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,276
    Hail stall is the definition of a hard playstyle. Between all those weaknesses and the prevailance of Stealth Rock, it's arguably one of the hardest playstyles to build a team for. However, with the right support, Hail stall can be a real potent force in ther Overused metagame. First up, you have the obvious Abomasnow, then you have your spinners and Tentacruel and Starmie, and your Special Defensive Heatran sets come with this playstyle too. Now, the missing piece here is the lack of a bulky water. Bulky waters are crucial to Hail stall teams, due to them being able to check most threats to hail teams, mainly Lucario, Infernape, and most notably, Scizor. Now, I would like to share two sets that i have found very very successful in my experiences with Hail stall, I hope you all use it to your advantage. Ladies and Gentelmen, enjoy the walling power of Gyarados and Empoleon. Here are the sets.

    [​IMG]
    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Dragon Tail
    - Taunt
    - Waterfall

    Now, while it may seem that Gyarados is always running an offensive Dragon Dance set with Moxie to destroy it's opponents, you should take a look closer at Gyarados. Solid 95 / 79 / 100 Defenses, an excellent ability in Intimidate, and a very solid support movepool, Gyarados is a prime candidate for a Bulky Water on most Hail-Stall teams. This is the standard straight up EV spread, with maximum HP and Defense to go along with an Impish Nature to provide maximum bulk that Stall teams always seem to have. Now, on to the moveset. Up first, Thunder Wave is an excellent move to cripple most Physical Attackers such as Infernape and Lucario, both of which who tend to be big threats to Hail teams as well as other fighting types in this metagame. Dragon Tail is an excellent phazing move, which Stall teams always need, and it gives Gyarados an extra attacking option, which is always nice. Now, Taunt is for crippling Jellicent and Ferrothorn, preventing them from crippling Gyarados himself by using Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave, respectively, while also preventing Ferrothorn from using Leech Seed. Finally, Waterfall does solid damage to most threats in the OU meta even when uninvested, such as Mamoswine, Lucario and Gliscor. So, if you're looking to build a Hail-Stall team, and need a bulky water, consider Gyarados.

    [​IMG]
    Empoleon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Scald
    - Toxic / Roar
    - Protect / Ice Beam

    Now, once again, Empoleon should be showcasing it's talents in the offensive department, but once again, this is a real blessing in disguise. With very solid Defenses of 84 / 88 / 101, an excellent Water / Steel typing, and arguably one of the best support movepools in the metagame, Empoleon makes for an very solid Special Wall for Hail teams. The EV spread is relatively simple, 248 HP ensures that Empoleon takes minimal damage from Stealth Rock & Leech Seed, the Defense investment is for to help Empoleon take on Dragon Dance Dragonite and Salamence easier, while the rest of the EV's are for bolstering Empoleons Special Defense, enabling him to take hard Special Attacks. Stealth Rock is what sets Empoleon away from the rest of the bulky waters in this metagame, as he is the only bulky water with Stealth Rock, and Stealth Rock is crucial for wearing down the opponents team, which is the goal of most stall teams in the current metagame. Scald is an excellent move for burning physical attackers, who, once again, threaten Stall teams to no end. Threats such as Lucario, Mamoswine and others are left crippled after a Scald. Toxic is an option if one desires to beat opposing bulky Water types and to wear down opposing Life Orb Sweepers. Roar is an excellent move to wear down the opponents team, as every Stall team need a Phazer. Protect is an excellent move to scout super effective moves, such as Rotom-W's Volt Switch, while also racking up Toxic damage. Finally, Ice Beam is an option to hit opposing Dragonite and Salamence, as Empoleon resists both of their main STAB moves.​
  9. jpw234

    jpw234

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    164
    See the RMT in my sig for a hail stall team that I think works pretty well in the current metagame. As far as hail stall goes, most of the teams are just stall teams that use hail as an extra component of residual damage. But there are several notable abusers of the hail, and the most notable is definitely Walrein.

    [​IMG]
    Walrein @ Leftovers
    Trait: Ice Body
    EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 20 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Substitute
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Blizzard / Surf / Roar / Brine / Super Fang
    Stallrein makes a reappearance from Gen 4, where it was arguably more effective. But it still works in today's metagame, and takes advantage of the prevalence of offensive teams with no way to heal themselves or avoid a slow death from the hail. Basically, leftovers and Ice Body recovery give you 12.5% per turn, while Substitute takes away 25%. So basically: Sub (-25%, +12.5%), Protect (+12.5%) means you haven't taken any net damage while the opponent is damaged by hail, Toxic/Burn, LO, etc. If you can find an opponent who can't status you or hit you for more than 75%, you can start stalling. Here's some calculations of pokemon that work:
    Show Hide

    Salamence (OU MixMence) Draco Meteor 64.2 - 75.65%
    Tornadus (OU Hurricane [Life Orb]) Hurricane 63.24 - 74.46%
    Landorus-T (OU Rock Polish) Stone Edge 62.76 - 73.74%
    Tyranitar (OU Choice Scarf) Stone Edge 61.57 - 73.03%
    Hydreigon (OU Mixed Attacker [Expert Belt]) Draco Meteor 61.81 - 73.03%
    Dragonite (OU Choice Band) Outrage 60.85 - 71.59%
    Latios (OU Choice [Choice Scarf]) Draco Meteor 58.23 - 68.73%
    Mamoswine (OU Physical Attacker [Life Orb]) Stone Edge 57.75 - 68.25%
    Weavile (OU Physical Attacker [Choice Band]) Low Kick 56.8 - 67.3%
    Gyarados (OU Offensive Dragon Dance) Stone Edge 55.84 - 66.34%

    Below here, you can set up while switching into Stealth Rock (i.e., below 62.5%)
    Mamoswine (OU Choice Scarf) Superpower 52.98 - 62.52%
    Dragonite (OU Tank) Draco Meteor 52.98 - 62.52%
    Rotom-W (OU Bulky Attacker) Volt Switch 50.59 - 60.14%
    Scizor (OU Choice Scarf) Superpower 48.68 - 57.27%
    Ferrothorn (OU Standard) Power Whip 44.86 - 53.46%
    Dragonite (OU Tank (Rain)) Thunder 43.91 - 52.02%
    Rotom-W (OU Specially Defensive) Volt Switch 41.52 - 49.16%
    Dragonite (OU Dragon Dance) Outrage 40.33 - 47.97%
    Salamence (OU Choice Scarf) Outrage 37.23 - 43.91%

    It's definitely the MVP of the hail stall teams I've made this generation.
  10. TaBuu

    TaBuu

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    493
    Kinda surprised no one has brought up this Pokemon yet. When I'd face Hail Stall, he was literally EVERYWHERE. Introducing Poison Heal Gliscor
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Item: Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    Nature: Impish
    Moves: Substitute/Protect/Earthquake/Toxic or Taunt or Ice Fang


    Hail Teams are notorious for always carrying around Fighting Type weaknesses, kind of how like Sun Teams hate Rock Type moves and Sand hates Water. Gliscor can really stand up to the top threats coming from the Fighting Dojo...assuming that Terrakion isn't at +2 with Rock Gem and you're Gliscor has taken Stealth Rock damage. Gliscor seperates itself from Landorus-Therian because of Poison Heal. Landorus-T will never lose or gain HP from Hail. However, Gliscor will always be getting +6% of his HP back because of Poison Heal. Gliscor also has access to the very annoying SubProtectToxicTaunt set...or more simply the Substitute set.

    Having a defensive pivot that is capable of Toxic Stalling, tanking Fighting Type moves and staying healthy even under the effects of Hail make Gliscor an invaluable assist for Hail Stall.
  11. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    650
    Added jpw234's team! Congratulations!
  12. Frog

    Frog

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    94
    Hey somebody else try out hippowdon on hail stall. I built a sand stall team featuring abomasnow for ice shard and focus punch, but the great synergy the two stall lords have with each other is fantastic. I need to work on the rest of the team but right now it is Physically defensive hippowdon/SubSeedPunch Abomasnow/Physically Defensive Forretress/SpD Heatran/CM Latias/SpD Rotom-W. The team could use another fighting resist perhaps? I wanted to make it more offensive, but it seems more solid the way it is...

    If you want a typical team, abomasnow/heatran/tentacruel/latias/fighting type/kyurem is a lot more common.
  13. TaBuu

    TaBuu

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    493
    Regarding Hail Stall, I was wondering if I could get some opinions on Reuniclus.

    [​IMG]
    Item: Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    Nature: Quiet
    EVs: 192 HP/64 Def/252 SpA
    Moves: Trick Room/Psyshock/Shadow Ball/Focus Blast or Hidden Power Fire


    Stall teams in general will crumble to the fast paced nature of Hyper Offense. Hail Stall is no different and arguably is the most vulnerable, considering their natural weakness to common Offensive moves. Reuniclus however provides a hope for Stall Teams. Once the opposing team has been stalled out to the point of exhaustion, Reuniclus, along with its Magic Guard can come right in and proceed to clean the remains. Trick Room totally screws offensive teams over and they can only helplessly watch as their frail threats get smashed by a big green fetus. Thanks to Magic Guard, Hail is nothing to Reuniclus and Life Orb is an automatic must for such a set.
  14. Cinco Diablo

    Cinco Diablo

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,276
    Speaking of Reuniclus, he is a huge threat to Hailstall teams, as the CalmMind set with Focus Blast and Psychic / Psyshock have excellent coverage, and can hit just about every Pokemon that can be viable on Hailstall very hard. In addition to near perfect coverage, Reuniclus has access to arguably the best ability out there in Magic Guard, which allows it to not take damage from Stealth Rock, Leech Seed, Toxic and the Hail itself. For the reasons listed above, Reuniclus absolutely shuts down Hail stall and walls Wallrein to no end. One Pokemon that can serve as a Reuniclus check, a late game sweeper and a Phazer is Latias. Latias makes for an excellent teammate for most Pokemon on Hailstall teams, most notably Tentacruel, whom it has some excellent synergy with. Anyhow, here's the Latias set that I was explaining about.

    [​IMG]
    Latias @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Roost
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Roar

    With her excellent typing, solid base 110 Speed, fantastic Special Defense, Latias makes a perfect option if you want a mid to late-game offensive Pokemon. This is the basic EV spread with Max HP for bulk and Max Speed with a Timid Nature in order to speed tie with other base 110 Speed Pokemon. Now, here's an explanation of the moveset that she is using. Calm Mind is obviously for bolstering Latias' Special Attack and already solid Special Defense to near unbreakable levels which is crucial if she wants to sweep late-game. Up next, we have Roost, which is another crucial move on this set, as it allows Latias to switch-in to multiple threats in the OU meta and can be used in conjuction with Calm Mind to keep her in good health while boosting her stats at the same time. Dragon Pulse is the main attacking option for Latias on this set, as it has some excellent neutral coverage, and can also do some significant damage to those who even resist Dragon Pulse. Finally, we have arguably the most important move on this moveset in the forme of Roar. With Roar, Latias is able to phaze out every setup sweeper in the OU metagame, and as I said before, it can phaze out one of the most threatening Pokemon to Hailstall and Hail in general, Calm Mind Reuniclus. I definitely recommend it for Hail teams lacking a Steel type for some reason, or those lacking a bulky late-game sweeper.​
  15. jpw234

    jpw234

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    164
    Okay, so considering all of the stuff that's being said here it looks like I need to step up my game! Here's some thoughts about how hail stall plays (or at least how I play it), along with a bunch of pokemon which I think work well for hail stall teams.

    The common feature of the other three weathers that exist is that they buff individual pokemon, and most teams using sand/sun/rain will be built around taking advantage of this buff. For sun it's almost universally Chlorophyll and boosted fire attacks. For rain, offensively it can be boosted water attacks, Thunder and Hurricane, while defensively it includes pokemon like Tentacruel or Toxicroak who gain recovery, or Ferrothorn/Scizor who lose an important weakness. For sand it can be Sand Force Landorus, Sand Rush Stoutland, or stall taking advantage of special defense boosts and residual damage.
    The common thread that ties this all together is that with each of these playstyles you are attempting to use your weather to grab momentum, and then execute your strategy. There is offensive momentum that we all generally know, but also defensive momentum gained from stacking hazards, forcing switches, and wearing the opponent down. Philosophically, the goal of these teams is to impose your will on the opponent and control the flow of the game.

    Hail is different because outside of a select few pokemon (basically, Walrein and Blizzard Kyurem), nothing directly benefits from the presence of hail. This leads to an essential philosophical difference - rather than imposing your strategy on the game, you are denying your opponent's strategy and using that against them. Most teams, when denied access to a core part of their strategy, will slowly fall apart almost on their own - their sweepers switch in and out as they run into counters, unable to boost or do significant damage, wearing themselves down until they succumb. If you're playing hail stall you must be content to get battered for the first couple turns of the battle, identify the weakest link in your opponent's strategy, and strike as soon as the opportunity arises in order to put your opponent's team in shambles. This requires patience, experienced knowledge of your own team, and enough understanding of the metagame to identify the strategy of the opposing team out of Team Preview in order to formulate a gameplan.

    That rambling aside, hail stall has several major problems:
    1. Abomasnow takes a chunk from every hazard.
    2. Fighting, Steel, Rock and Fire attacks are everywhere and seriously hurt Ice-types.
    3. In general, there's a lot of diverse offensive threats out there.
    The following pokemon do a lot to advance your goals, namely, halting the opposition's momentum by stopping their sweepers and taking control of the battle.

    Spinners
    [​IMG]
    Role: Physical Tank, Spinner, Hazard Setter
    Useful Moves: Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Gyro Ball, Volt Switch, Earthquake, Toxic
    Forretress is quite useful for hail teams who need a reliable spinner. It can tank Fighting, Rock, Steel, and Dragon-type physical attacks (along with many others), spin away dangerous hazards, and set up hazards of your own. It can also hurt fast physical sweepers with Gyro Ball, gain a bit of momentum with Volt Switch, lure in the ever-annoying Heatran with Earthquake, or simply Toxic opposing walls. The compounded Fire weakness is a real pain, however - it can't effectively spin until SR Heatran (a common threat) is removed, for example, and has trouble picking its spots against sun teams.

    [​IMG]
    Role: Spinner, Utility Check, Rain Abuser
    Useful Moves: Rapid Spin, Toxic, Toxic Spikes, Scald, Ice Beam, Protect, Blizzard
    Tentacruel is probably the most common spinner in the game right now (Starmie?) and while not commonly seen on hail, can find a spot. In particular, Tentacruel takes advantage of common opposition Drizzle teams, and can check various threats on both sides of the spectrum. Tentacruel also has the added bonus of not doubling up on any Ice-type weaknesses while being able to spin against defensive Heatran. However, Tentacruel doesn't pack hazards outside the uncommon Toxic Spikes and tends to be overpowered by heavily offensive teams without the benefit of rain's recovery.

    Walls
    [​IMG]
    Role: Special Wall, Wish Passer, Cleric, Status Spreader, Hazard Setter
    Useful Moves: Aromatherapy, Wish, Stealth Rock, Toxic, Thunder Wave
    Blissey is just as useful now as it has ever been. Very few special sweepers can get past a full-health Blissey without the help of some timely hax. Blissey counters many things that otherwise wreck Hail Stall including Volcarona, Thundurus-T, Heatran, Sheer Force Landorus, and more (basically every special sweeper lacking Psyshock or Secret Sword). It also supports the team in many ways - statusing opposing sweepers, healing status or passing huge Wishes. Blissey also serves the above-outlined function of hard-stopping opposing threats, killing their momentum, and giving you the advantage in the battle. It does have downsides, however - namely it dies to pretty much any STAB physical attack and can't do anything offensively, particularly to Ghost-types like Gengar.

    [​IMG]
    Role: Special Wall, Boosting Sweeper, Phazer, Special Attacker, Win Condition
    Useful Moves: Calm Mind, Roar, Substitute, Recover, Refresh
    Latias is an outstanding special tank who can fill many roles for Hail Stall, including providing some offensive presence. While offensive Latias like LO are viable, I tend to prefer more defensive CM sets for my stall teams. CM provides an end-game win condition against opposing stall teams and a way to threaten offensive pokemon. Other ways Latias can help the team are as a phazer with Roar, stopping boosters like CM Jirachi or Keldeo. Speaking of switch, Latias is basically a hard-counter to every type of Keldeo with Psyshock, and Keldeo is a very dangerous pokemon for Hail Stall. Latias' weaknesses include the Pursuit weakness and "510 EV syndrome" - if you EV it defensively it really can't hit hard at all, but if you EV it offensively it loses the ability to tank a bunch of hits.

    Coming:
    Gliscor
    Gastrodon
    Roserade
    Kyurem
    More if I think of them...
  16. Zentrius

    Zentrius

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    97
    I would like to say also that Tentacruel is such an amazing partner for the Landorus-Heatran-Abomasnow core because it counters Infernape that carry HP Ice, and we all know that Infernape basically shits on unprepared Hail Teams. Tentacruel also it's a pretty good partner to put up with SubRoost Kyurem, Tentacruel sets up Toxic Spikes and Kyurem stalls common counters with Substitute and Pressure, like Chansey and Blissey.

    I also tried out Hippowdon with Sand Force on my Hail Stall and it was a great response to Tyranitar and Terrakion, but to be honest I vastly prefer to lure Celebi with U-Turn from Landorus-T and then go into Abomasnow to demolish it with Ice Shard if it survived. It can work though.

    I would like to say that Defensive Cloyster, while it's a inferior spinner to the likes of Tentacruel and Forretress, is actually extremely bulky on the physicall side, tanking even Close Combat from Scarf Terrakion and Superpower from Choice Band Tyranitar. Cloyster also gets Spikes AND Toxic Spikes along with Rapid Spin, so it's important to take it in consideration if you feel that Forretress would no bring anything to the table for your team.

    [​IMG]
    Cloyster @ Leftovers
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 Def
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes/Toxic Spikes
    - Icicle Spear
    - Surf

  17. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    650
    Added a poll to decide the next week's playstyle. Remember that the discussion still continues, don't let the poll distract you from this thread's purpose, otherwise, I'll close it (the poll)
  18. Explorer

    Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    684
    The Sea Slug deserves a little love outside of rain...

    Gastrodon (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP/4 SpA/252 SpD
    Nature: Calm
    -Scald
    -Toxic/Blizzard/Stockpile
    -Earth Power
    -Recover

    This is basically standard Specially defensive Gastrodon, but since this is a hail team, Blizzard becomes an option, as does Stockpile (to boost both defenses). Scald can cause burns, great against common anti-Hail Pokemon such as Terrakion and Tyranitar. Gastrodon also destroys any Fire-type without a Grass-type move, most notably Heatran. Earth Power also hits Jolteon and Magnezone for major damage. Recover is a must to keep Gastrodon stalling much longer.

    Note that Gastrodon and Heatran together can halt all three opposing weathers: sand, sun, and rain, and they have nice synergy together as well. Heatran 4x resists Gastrodon's only weakness, while Gastrodon is immune to one of Heatran's weaknesses. This could be a very potent hail defensive core (plus Heatran delivers Stealth Rock).
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