They're worth a mention, maybe, but not a slash. Greninja is already too weak, hell, it can't even OHKO SpD Hippowdon with Life Orb Hydro Pump. Let alone Scald or Surf.
How is that ''weak''? Hippowdon is just bulky as hell, even life orb keldeo cant guarantee the OHKO with hydro pump. Base 103 with stab on everything and excellent coverage is pretty dam strong in my book. Greninja's only real flaw is that awful bulk.
Honestly, I would at least expect a chance to OHKO from Pokemon with base 103 SpA, paired with STAB, super-effective, Life Orb-boosted base 110 power move on a Pokemon with 108/72 special bulk. STAB on everything is good, yes, but base 103 is still below-average. I can't deny the neat coverage though.
Added surf behind hydro pump. Scald is not a good move for greninja because it won't survive a physical attack, even if the opponents pokemon is burned.
The idea of Scald on an offensive mon isn't specifically to burn something and survive a phyisical hit because of it. It's useful to randomly burn things on a switch, and the base power drop from Surf to Scald isn't exactly a deal-breaker in all cases. If you know your Greninja isn't gonna survive the turn you might as well fish for a burn, as well.
Greninja can utilize power effectively, but ironically I run him with Expert Belt, Scald, Ice Beam, Dark Pulse and Hidden Power Steel.
Just a suggestion: Hippowdon in this meta has the defenses to shoulder taking a hit hit from mega pinsir and, with a decent moveset, can counter talonflame (through either toxic stall or rock slide). I suggest slashing one in whirlwind's spot. Whirlwind doesn't quite have the same importance that it had back in BW2 due to the lack of full hazard support and TF can still roost off the damage quite easily.
Do Not Use:
Florges (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Aromatherapy
- Moonblast
Role: Special Wall / Support
What it does: Florges is supposed to serve a specially defensive Pokemon/Pivot that sponges up pretty much any special hit and provides Wish/Aromatherapy support to itself and its teammates. Taking a look at Florges's stats and movepool, it doesn't seem like it'd be too bad at this job, but theres one thing holding Florges back from ever being a good option in OU: the existence of Sylveon. It might seem like Sylveon has lower stats all around, but taking a closer look you'll realize that Sylveon is pretty much the better option. Sylveon might have a slightly lower Special Attack stat than Florges, but because of Sylveon's hidden ability Pixilate, Sylveon's actually the one that does more damage, with Pixilate Hyper Voice doing a significant amount more than Florges's Moonblast while also completely ignoring substitutes from the likes of Kyurem-B, giving it a more significant offensive presence. Also, Florges's raw defensive stats might be higher than Sylveon's, but Sylveon's higher base HP stat pretty much balances this out, actually leaving Sylveon MORE physically bulky than Florges and only slightly less specially bulky. On top of this, Sylveon's higher base HP means that its wishes are a bit larger than wishes from Florges, making her the better cleric all around and leaving Florges in the dust, with pretty much no niche over the eevee evolution.
Good Teammates: Although there's pretty much no reason to use Florges over Sylveon at the moment, both of them find themselves most at home in teams such as Bulky Offense/Balance/Stall Their nifty fairy typing and absurd Special bulk is excellent for these kinds of teams and both Sylveon and Florges can play a part in keeping the team alive by providing Wish support to Pokemon that lack recovery, such as Heatran and Landorus-T, and by using Heal Bell/Aromatherapy to cure their teammates of pesky status problems such as Toxic, Burn, and Sleep. Bulky attackers such as Mega Mawile also appreciate Florges/Sylveon's wish support, using it to stay alive and deal even more damage later on in the match. As for Pokemon that can support Florges and Sylveon, any Pokemon that can take strong physical hits, especially from Pokemon such as Aegislash, Genesect, and Scizor that often use Steel-type moves pairs well with either Pokemon, and often appreciate the Wish support provided by the fairies quite a bit in return.
What Counters It: Strong Steel-types such as Genesect, Aegislash, Bisharp, Mega Mawile, Excadrill and Scizor are the most common checks to Florges. All of the above mentioned bar Bisharp take a pittance from any of Florges's attacks, and can prey on its weaker special bulk in return with Iron Heads, Bullet Punches, and Play Roughs, easily either forcing out or KOing the wallflower before it can cause any trouble. Heatran takes literally absolutely nothing from Florges thanks to its 4x resistance to Fairy-type moves, but struggles to do much in return, although it can use Roar to shuffle around Florges's teammates a little bit and possibly mess up her Wish. Mega Venusaurr is a great way to stop Florges in her tracks too, once again taking pretty much nothing from a Moonblast and posing a threat with Sludge Bomb, recovering off all the damage Florges could possibly do with Synthesis. Outside of specialized checks, pretty much any physical attacker that's bulky enough to take a Moonblast or two while not having to rely on moves she resists can easily threaten Florges and force her out of the battlefield.
Any Additional Info: I don't understand why we need to write about good teammates for Pokemon you shouldn't be using....
This isn't DPPt UU ._.What about spin blockers? My favorite would be
Rotom @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
Role: Spin Blocker
What It does: Rotom really does what most Ghost Types do, Spin Block. That is, Blocking Rapid Spin with its Ghost Typing. This is the main reason why you would ever want to run Rotom in this form rather than its beter typed brothers. Its Electric typing allows it to Damage Flying Types who want to defog, while being able to Burn most Rapid Spinners who are mostly Physical. It also serves purpose outside of Spin Blocking, as it Walls most Choice Band Scizor outside a crazy prediction, as well as various fighting types, and many common threats in the current metagame. It also gets great momentum with Volt Switch to escape Dark types that want to trap it.
Weaknesses: Obviously Dark Types counter it best. But thanks to its 91 Speed, most common Dark types wont Outspeed without being scarfed, so essentialy you get to burn most of Rotom's threats to survive with Pain Split of just switching. Sadly thats not to be said about Ghosts, and pokemon with Earthquake with Mold Breaker. Thankfully Rotom can live one single Shadow Ball from Gengar before being forced to retreat with Volt Switch. Also, many pokemon such as Band Victini, Specs Latios, and Belly Drum Azumarill, with massive Attack/Special Attack stats can easily KO Rotom. Be Carefull with Rotom, but constantly Switch to take advantage off its many assets as a pokemon. Also, Toxic can stop Rotom cold.
Teammates To Consider:
Offensive threats such as Scizor, Mienshao, and Genesect can provide U-Turn Momentum for Rotom to get in to the battle easier. Mandibuzz provides near perfect defensive coverage, but watch for Ice type moves. With this defensive core, Rotom gets a little more out of the core than Mandibuzz since Mandibuzz can come in on Rotom's Weaknesses but Rotom can't after a while. Blissey is another option, if you want Rotom to work a bit harder since neither can take physical Dark Moves. With the latter, Blissey gets Stealth Rock which Rotom can Spin Block for. I prefere Heatran since it not only can take, Toxic and Dark moves, but Rotom can take fighting and Ground moves while absorbing Water moves with its fantastic special bulk. Heatran also gets Stealth Rock, Lava Plume for burning, and Toxic.
Pursuit still traps Volt Switch (assuming it has the same mechanics as U-turn). Aegislash is in general much more useful than Rotom-W, even if it lacks WoW. And Jellicent has reliable recovery, more utility in Scald, WoW and Shadow Ball.
The OP did say early in the thread to start with common OU pokes.Here's something that will raise eyebrows, but believe it or not, I've been using it to surprising success in competent battles with other opponents. And before you dismiss it, keep in mind that there is nothing that outclasses its niche in OU, and therefore has a definite place in the metagame that cannot be disregarded. Also note that I'm not the greatest team builder, so the teammates section and specific pokemon that Raichu can hit aren't exactly my forte. Anyway:
Raichu @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Static / Lightningrod
EVs: 4 SpA / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty / Lonely Nature
- Volt Tackle
- Brick Break
- Knock Off
- ExtremeSpeed / Grass Knot
Role: Physical Attacker, Late-Game Cleaner, Revenge Killer
What It Does: Despite being in an era where bulky attackers reign supreme, Raichu's blistering base 110 speed, mixed base 90 offenses, access to a powerful STAB in Volt Tackle, and passable coverage for both of his offensive stats, Raichu has a very defined niche as one of a handful of viable physical attackers with powerful Electric STAB. Its high speed lets it outrun a large variety of threats, and STAB Volt Tackle packs a huge punch, allowing it to check the rampant Flying-types through out the tier. Access to priority helps out greatly as well, especially since it's one of the fastest priority users. Combined with its coverage, Raichu can breeze through weakened teams with ease. Overall, an underrated Pokemon that certainly has its merits.
Good Teammates: If Raichu doesn't carry Grass Knot, anything that can break through bulky ground types, such as Mamoswine and Mega Charizard Y, are great offensive partners. Defensively, Mandibuzz and Skarmory can take pretty much any priority thrown at Raichu and help wear down other bulkier Pokemon that Raichu cannot otherwise OHKO
What Counters It: Talonflame, Scizor, or pretty much any priority user can wipe the floor with Raichu before it can even move. Additionally, physically defensive Ground-types wall this set hard if he isn't carrying Grass Knot.
Any Additional Info: While he doesn't look like an attractive choice at first glance, Raichu is a perfectly viable choice if your team needs powerful physical Electric STAB, an efficient late-game cleaner, or a prime-cut revenge killer. Used wisely, Raichu can be incredibly fun to use against confused opponents.
I know I'll be getting a lot of flak for this, but I've been using a similar set for some time and this thing has won games for me in clutch situations. Run some calcs and try for yourself first before you dismiss this. Thanks for your time.
Rotom is defeated by Excadrill the most common spinner. Besides that, dedicating a slot to a sub-par pokemon that has no other use besides spinblocking, while defog is running rampant, is a really bad idea.What about spin blockers? My favorite would be
Use:
Rotom @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
Role: Spin Blocker
What It does: Rotom really does what most Ghost Types do, Spin Block. That is, Blocking Rapid Spin with its Ghost Typing. This is the main reason why you would ever want to run Rotom in this form rather than its beter typed brothers. Its Electric typing allows it to Damage Flying Types who want to defog, while being able to Burn most Rapid Spinners who are mostly Physical. It also serves purpose outside of Spin Blocking, as it Walls most Choice Band Scizor outside a crazy prediction, as well as various fighting types, and many common threats in the current metagame. It also gets great momentum with Volt Switch to escape Dark types that want to trap it.
Weaknesses: Obviously Dark Types counter it best. But thanks to its 91 Speed, most common Dark types wont Outspeed without being scarfed, so essentialy you get to burn most of Rotom's threats to survive with Pain Split of just switching. Sadly thats not to be said about Ghosts, and pokemon with Earthquake with Mold Breaker. Thankfully Rotom can live one single Shadow Ball from Gengar before being forced to retreat with Volt Switch. Also, many pokemon such as Band Victini, Specs Latios, and Belly Drum Azumarill, with massive Attack/Special Attack stats can easily KO Rotom. Be Carefull with Rotom, but constantly Switch to take advantage off its many assets as a pokemon. Also, Toxic can stop Rotom cold.
Teammates To Consider:
Offensive threats such as Scizor, Mienshao, and Genesect can provide U-Turn Momentum for Rotom to get in to the battle easier. Mandibuzz provides near perfect defensive coverage, but watch for Ice type moves. With this defensive core, Rotom gets a little more out of the core than Mandibuzz since Mandibuzz can come in on Rotom's Weaknesses but Rotom can't after a while. Blissey is another option, if you want Rotom to work a bit harder since neither can take physical Dark Moves. With the latter, Blissey gets Stealth Rock which Rotom can Spin Block for. I prefer Heatran since it not only can take Toxic and Dark moves, but Rotom can take fighting and Ground moves while absorbing Water moves with its fantastic special bulk. Heatran also gets Stealth Rock, Lava Plume for burning, and Toxic.
