Other OU Teambuilding

[newtonja]

My teambuilding process, step one add rotom w.

 

[TooMuchSugar]

As the one who posted the Raichu set, I can understand why people are disregarding it upon first inspection. I also neglected to read the part about only posting "common threats", and so I acknowledge that this is a post I should have made a much later point down the road. I'm even willing to leave this alone after this. However! The vast majority of people who have disregarded my set are not looking at this with impartiality, but clearly through previous bias. Things have changed for Raichu, and while I never claimed that he was a revolutionary in his roles, I will stand here and explain to you with facts why some of you need to change the way you're looking at things.


First, Jolteon does NOT outclass Raichu, because not only do they serve different purposes, but they also have entirely different sets of checks and counters because this Raichu set uses an entirely different attacking stat. Let's take Blissey, for example. Jolteon and any other Pokemon mentioned is outright walled by Blissey, but because this Raichu is physical, it can cleanly 2HKO what the opponent thinks is a counter.

252 Atk Life Orb Raichu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 360-425 (50.4 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

And that's both with full defensive investment on Blissey and with Raichu not even at full power. Because of this simple truth, you cannot possibly claim that Jolteon (or Raikou and Mega Manectric, for that matter) outclass Raichu.




Again, this is not true, solely on the basis that Raichu serves a completely different purpose and uses an entirely different attacking stat. And in the case of Thundurus, when are you ever going to find Thundurus using Wild Charge instead of Thunderbolt? And even then, Thundurus using Wild Charge does not hit as hard as Raichu's Volt Tackle.

252+ Atk Thundurus Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 268-316 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Therefore, Raichu is not outclassed by Thundurus physically.

Also, by that logic, you are stating something like Tyrantrum is worthless in OU. Tyrantrum, despite being outclassed by M-Tyranitar in most roles, has an undeniable niche as an excellent user of STAB, recoil-free Head Smash. It does not matter that he is not in OU; something switching into that is getting hurt. While not the exact same situation, Raichu is similar in that just because he's "outclassed" (which we already established is not) does not mean that he is not a threat in OU. I'm not claiming he's a major threat, but only that he has a threatening niche that wins matches.

Also, let me remind you that Talonflame's Brave Bird is coming off a base 81 Attack stat, and it still hits like a truck on neutral hits. Raichu has base 90 attack and also using a STAB 120 base power move, and even less common OU Pokemon resist it. And, by the way, it can deal with Ground-types much better than Talonflame can deal with Rock types.

4 SpA Life Orb Raichu Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 270-320 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

And before you bring up Gale Wings, we aren't talking about speed or priority here, but how hard a move hits. Gale Wings and greater speed are irrelevant here, so don't bring it up unless you can back up your reasoning.

When I came to Smogon, I expected impartial judgments based on the facts presented, but it's abundantly clear through the facts that a good deal of you have not properly looking into this, and are basing your arguments on assumptions. I'd even argue that a couple of you didn't even look at the set when you made your posts. I'm willing to leave this alone from here on out, like I said earlier, but let this post be a reminder that you cannot write something off based on assumptions. Or have you guys forgotten about how we thought Talonflame and Mega-Pinsir were going to be worthless before we discovered everything there is to know about them?

Rock Head Tyrantrum is unreleased. If it was available, I'm sure it would be useable and even good in OU, but it's not, and Tyrantrum is, in fact, worthless in OU.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that Raichu is useable because it's the best physically attacking electric type (arguably true). So this is my question: why would I ever want or need to use a physically attacking electric type? (not to get past Blissey, even special Thundurus can do that with Superpower).

 

[Jexulus]

Rock Head Tyrantrum is unreleased. If it was available, I'm sure it would be useable and even good in OU, but it's not, and Tyrantrum is, in fact, worthless in OU.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that Raichu is useable because it's the best physically attacking electric type (arguably true). So this is my question: why would I ever want or need to use a physically attacking electric type? (not to get past Blissey, even special Thundurus can do that with Superpower).

Blissey was just an example I was using, it didn't matter what kind of special wall I used. Anyway, the reason why you'd want to use Raichu? That's simple, you use it if it covers the weaknesses of a team you build. Let's say you build a team with the SkarmBliss Kiss of death, with Mamoswine to provide physical offense and set rocks, rounding off with Choice Specs Latios to wall break. What's missing? First of all, you're boned if Mamoswine gets burned because you don't have another physical attacker, and that leaves you vulnerable to opposing Blissey. You're also missing a dedicated late-game cleaner and a revenge killer, not to mention a complete lack of Electric coverage, so you need someone who can do all of that without any prior set-up. Raichu fulfills that role pretty handily.

Now, I don't claim to be a good team builder, and I realize what I just described is most likely not a realistic situation. However, I believe this gets my point across quite well. It isn't difficult to find a spot for a physical revenge killer or late-game cleaner on your team, and Raichu can nab KO's late game just as well as Weavile or Sharpedo can. Its versatility and ability to go mixed to muscle past certain threats (like Grass Knot for Hippowdon) even allows it to break down a pesky defensive Poke if the situation calls for it.

Also, I'm well aware that Rock Head Tyrantrum is unreleased, but again, I was using an example to make my point. I had just come from the Tyrantrum thread earlier, you see.

 

[dinotrek27]

I definitely want to give this a shot. Not very experienced with this, but here I go!

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Leech Seed / Thunder Wave
- Gyro Ball / Power Whip

Role: Mixed Wall / Lead / Hazard Setter / Pivot? Maybe?

What It Does: Ferrothorn is one of the most common and effective defensive mons around, with a fantastic typing that grants him nine resistances, one immunity, and only two weaknesses. He also has access to two of the most common hazards, Stealth Rock being the most important as it can seriously harm any Fire-type switch-ins. Along with his sturdy defenses, it's not uncommon for him to be able to set up SR and a layer or two of Spikes. Leech Seed and Thunder Wave are both solid options, with Leech Seed giving him additional recovery if he holds Leftovers while stacking passive damage from Iron Barbs (and a Rocky Helmet, if he holds one). Thunder Wave, meanwhile, takes care of just about anything that cares about its Speed. Lastly, Gyro Ball and Power Whip are two hard-hitting moves, even without investment, and having one means that Ferrothorn doesn't necessarily need to switch out if Taunted. The EV's in this spread (which I graciously stole from Smogon's BW analysis) capitalize Ferrothorn's sturdy bulk and nearly even out his defenses; however, they can be easily adjusted if you want him to specialize in a certain defense. Leftovers is arguably the best item for Ferrothorn, especially when paired with Leech Seed, since he has no other means of restoring his health. Rocky Helmet on the other hand is an interesting option that can subtract 25% of an enemy's health if they make contact with him, which is especially harmful to Rapid Spinners.

Good Teammates: Ferrothorn's supportive characteristics and unique typing make him a good teammate for just about anyone! Heatran is a clever ally, as it can switch into Fire-type attacks that threaten Ferrothorn for a boost from Flash Fire, and Heatran benefits greatly from Thunder Wave support due to its low speed. However, Politoed is a useful teammate, as Rain on the field means that Ferrothorn will only take 2x damage from Fire- attacks instead of 4x damage. Ferrothorn can also form a defensive core with bulky Ground-types like Hippowdown, as the two can easily cover their partner's weaknesses.

What Counters It: Quite literally any Fire-type, or anything with powerful Fire-type coverage. Even with defensive stats totaling above 300, Ferrothorn will quickly fall to the flames with a double weakness, and most Fire-types resist both of his STAB moves. Ferrothorn must also be aware of Trick users; a Scarfed Ferrothorn is practically useless. Magic Bouncers like Espeon can also reflect his hazards, though most don't have Fire- coverage and fall to Gyro Ball or Power Whip. Many more counters lie in the Steel-type, such as Excadrill (who can spin away hazards and Leech Seed, is immune to Thunder Wave, and can set up on Ferrothorn) and Magnezone (another that can set up with Charge Beam or KO with HP Fire, ignore Thunder Wave and even Leech Seed with Substitute, and trap with Magnet Pull). Fighting-types are also common counters, such as Lucario and Conkeldurr, but they should deal with Ferrothorn quickly or risk being paralyzed or seeded, as well as taking a few bruises from Iron Barbs.

Any Additional Info: Ferrothorn can run offensive sets with Curse, Swords Dance, or a Choice Band, though this is strictly for a defensive, more standard set. Other decent options are Toxic with Protect as well as Explosion. He also has Anticipation as a hidden ability, but I only listed this to say that you should never, ever use it.

I think you should change his ev spread to 252hp252def4spdef since his main jobs this gen has changed from soaking hydro pumps to punishing brave birds with insane recoil

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

First, Jolteon does NOT outclass Raichu, because not only do they serve different purposes, but they also have entirely different sets of checks and counters because this Raichu set uses an entirely different attacking stat. Let's take Blissey, for example. Jolteon and any other Pokemon mentioned is outright walled by Blissey, but because this Raichu is physical, it can cleanly 2HKO what the opponent thinks is a counter.

252 Atk Life Orb Raichu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 360-425 (50.4 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

And that's both with full defensive investment on Blissey and with Raichu not even at full power. Because of this simple truth, you cannot possibly claim that Jolteon (or Raikou and Mega Manectric, for that matter) outclass Raichu.



Again, this is not true, solely on the basis that Raichu serves a completely different purpose and uses an entirely different attacking stat. And in the case of Thundurus, when are you ever going to find Thundurus using Wild Charge instead of Thunderbolt? And even then, Thundurus using Wild Charge does not hit as hard as Raichu's Volt Tackle.

252+ Atk Thundurus Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 268-316 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Therefore, Raichu is not outclassed by Thundurus physically.

Also, by that logic, you are stating something like Tyrantrum is worthless in OU. Tyrantrum, despite being outclassed by M-Tyranitar in most roles, has an undeniable niche as an excellent user of STAB, recoil-free Head Smash. It does not matter that he is not in OU; something switching into that is getting hurt. While not the exact same situation, Raichu is similar in that just because he's "outclassed" (which we already established is not) does not mean that he is not a threat in OU. I'm not claiming he's a major threat, but only that he has a threatening niche that wins matches.

Also, let me remind you that Talonflame's Brave Bird is coming off a base 81 Attack stat, and it still hits like a truck on neutral hits. Raichu has base 90 attack and also using a STAB 120 base power move, and even less common OU Pokemon resist it. And, by the way, it can deal with Ground-types much better than Talonflame can deal with Rock types.

4 SpA Life Orb Raichu Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 270-320 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

And before you bring up Gale Wings, we aren't talking about speed or priority here, but how hard a move hits. Gale Wings and greater speed are irrelevant here, so don't bring it up unless you can back up your reasoning.

When I came to Smogon, I expected impartial judgments based on the facts presented, but it's abundantly clear through the facts that a good deal of you have not properly looking into this, and are basing your arguments on assumptions. I'd even argue that a couple of you didn't even look at the set when you made your posts. I'm willing to leave this alone from here on out, like I said earlier, but let this post be a reminder that you cannot write something off based on assumptions. Or have you guys forgotten about how we thought Talonflame and Mega-Pinsir were going to be worthless before we discovered everything there is to know about them?

First thing: very few people are in the market for a psychically attacking electric type, and if their best option is Raichu (below average attack, physically frailer than Absol) they're going to give up on the search. Raichu is the hardest hitting physical electric type, but that's a big woop when no is looking for one, and when it's so incredibly frail. If I am looking for an offensive electric type, I'm going to go to the special side because everything on the special side has a lot more to offer to a team than Raichu or pretty much any other physically attacking electric type. Jolteon is really fast, Mega Manectric is faster and has Flamethrower and Intimidate. Thundurus-T's double boosting set is lethal, Thundurus-I has prankster. Raikou is fast and has Calm Mind. Magnezone can trap Steel types, making it a great partner for anything that's cock blocked by Skarmory and other steel types. And all of them are a lot bulkier than Raichu with the exception of Jolteon (who is only a littler bit bulkier.)

The only similarity they really share is that they're walled by the pink blobs. However, Thundurus-I is not since it has Super Power. Oh and by the way, Raichu doesn't beat Blissey. Using recoil moves on the pink blobs is a dumb idea. 252 Blissey has 714 HP, a third of that is 238 which is what a 262 HP Raichu is going to take in recoil before Life Orb. So at best you do a 1 to 1 trade if Blissey switches into a Volt Tackle, and if the opponent knows you're physical they can stall you out with Soft-boiled.

Rock Head Tyrantrum is unreleased, it's not that good in OU. If it was released it could be decent, but it's not.

Talonflame can get away with 81 attack because of Gale Wings. Speed and priority is important, having the most powerful priority move in OU is the entire reason anyone uses Talonflame. It also has Swords Dance, Bulk Up, Will-o-Wisp, Recovery, better STABs, U-Turn, the list of things it has over Raichu goes on. Hitting hard is not the only way something is measured, and, relatively speaking, neither of them hit that hard. Staraptor hits way, way harder than Talonflame, and while Raichu has the hardest hitting physical electric move, that's still not much of a plus when I could use a non-electric Pokemon with over 90 base attack and a 120 BP physical move, that's bulkier and/or faster.

Thundurus and Elektross both get Grass Knot and they'll hit harder with it. They're also both immune to Earthquake so they don't lose horribly in a 1v1 situation. And that's only one of many ground types in OU. Garchomp counters you. Gliscor counters you. You're not running HP ice, you lose to both of them. Even with Grass Knot you still lose to the more common ground types in OU, ones that aren't weak to Grass Knot and/or heavy.

Your current arguments as to why Raichu has a niche in OU:
It's physical so it can take down Blissey (and itself at the same time) which other Electric types can't (except for Thundurus and Eelektross, and they don't take massive recoil damage. Eelektross actually heals itself using Drain Punch. Other physical but less relevant Electric types, like Luxray and Electivire, can also beat Blissey.)
It has Grass Knot so it's not walled by Hippowdon, like other Electric types are (except for Thundurus and Eelektross)
Arguments as to why it's outclassed:
Other Electric types are faster (Jolteon, Mega Manectric, Thundurus, Raikou)
Other Electric types are bulkier (Zapdos, Rotom-W.... all of them)
Other Electric types have a better ability (Mega Man, Thundurus, Magnezone, Eelektross, Rotom-W)
Other Electric types have better coverage moves (Mega Man, Thundurus, Eelektross, probably more)

Blissey was just an example I was using, it didn't matter what kind of special wall I used. Anyway, the reason why you'd want to use Raichu? That's simple, you use it if it covers the weaknesses of a team you build. Let's say you build a team with the SkarmBliss Kiss of death, with Mamoswine to provide physical offense and set rocks, rounding off with Choice Specs Latios to wall break. What's missing? First of all, you're boned if Mamoswine gets burned because you don't have another physical attacker, and that leaves you vulnerable to opposing Blissey. You're also missing a dedicated late-game cleaner and a revenge killer, not to mention a complete lack of Electric coverage, so you need someone who can do all of that without any prior set-up. Raichu fulfills that role pretty handily.

If I was looking for a late game cleaner and revenge killer, I'd probably skip whatever has 90 base attack. Scarfchomp is a good revenge killer and late-game cleaner. Staraptor also fits the bill. Tons of other stuff can revenge kill and clean up better than Raichu. If Electric coverage is absolutely necessary (but why is it? why do I need a physical electric type to be a revenge killer/cleaner? Why do fighting types on OU pack Ice Punch and not Thunder Punch?) then Thundurus is better because it has better coverage moves, even if its physical STAB move is not as strong.

 

[rachet67]

Blissey was just an example I was using, it didn't matter what kind of special wall I used. Anyway, the reason why you'd want to use Raichu? That's simple, you use it if it covers the weaknesses of a team you build. Let's say you build a team with the SkarmBliss Kiss of death, with Mamoswine to provide physical offense and set rocks, rounding off with Choice Specs Latios to wall break. What's missing? First of all, you're boned if Mamoswine gets burned because you don't have another physical attacker, and that leaves you vulnerable to opposing Blissey. You're also missing a dedicated late-game cleaner and a revenge killer, not to mention a complete lack of Electric coverage, so you need someone who can do all of that without any prior set-up. Raichu fulfills that role pretty handily.

Now, I don't claim to be a good team builder, and I realize what I just described is most likely not a realistic situation. However, I believe this gets my point across quite well. It isn't difficult to find a spot for a physical revenge killer or late-game cleaner on your team, and Raichu can nab KO's late game just as well as Weavile or Sharpedo can. Its versatility and ability to go mixed to muscle past certain threats (like Grass Knot for Hippowdon) even allows it to break down a pesky defensive Poke if the situation calls for it.

Also, I'm well aware that Rock Head Tyrantrum is unreleased, but again, I was using an example to make my point. I had just come from the Tyrantrum thread earlier, you see.

Riachu can be walled by anything that can take a volt tackle. Here's a list of common OU mons that can completely counter your riachu set: Landorus-I, Landorus-T, Venesaur-Mega, Ferrothorn, Charzard-X, Garchomp, Gliscor, Goodra, Latios, Trevenant, and Dragonite. These are solid counters. This is about a third of OU. The list of checks is even higher, as riachu's bulk is pathetic and will die to about anything.

 

[Ajwf]

Anyways, Zebstrika is a better physical stat/speed tier/coverage pokemon. And it still is garbage. The best (and perhaps only viable) physical attacker with an electric typing has to be electevire. And IT still isn't very good.

 

[Mozilla Fennekin]

I think you should change his ev spread to 252hp252def4spdef since his main jobs this gen has changed from soaking hydro pumps to punishing brave birds with insane recoil

I don't exactly want him running so many options at once, I think that'll scatter the post. Maybe an alternate version that focuses solely on being a physical tank would be better.

 

[Garchomp for president]

Use:

Genesect@Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
Evs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Hasty Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam
- U-turn

Role: Scouting Lead/Possible Late Game Sweeper

What It does: Genesect is EXTREMELY flexible as a teammate. Its Choice Scarf Set is allows it to be one of the best Scouts in the game, with a decent 99 base speed that allows it to outspeed any un-Scarfed pokemon in OU. This means that it can come out as a lead, get either an Attack Boost for U-Turn, or a Special Attack boost for its coverage moves. Flamethrower covers many of the Hazard setters in OU right now, Thunderbolt covers Gyarados who would normally wall it to death. Ice Beam is for the abundance of Dragons in the tier. Most of the time you will want to U-Turn out on the first turn just to preserve Genesect better but only when your team cant hurt a threat, or that threat will smash your team, is when you would want to use a Coverage move first turn. Even if you don't get an Attack boost, don't worry about using U-Turn, its not really meant to kill things.

Teammates to Consider: Definatly Stealth Rocking Heatran. Not only can it come in on Fire types which Genesect cant touch, it sets up Stealth Rocks for Genesect, since your going to scare out many pokemon with your coverage moves. Dugtrio is a great partner for Genesect since it can trap many fire types that will want to come in on Gensect, Set up Swords Dance and live with its sash, then procide to mash the opposing team with Sucker Punch, Stone Edge, and Earthquake. Xatu and Espeon are also good pokemon to think about, since they bounce back hazards, and Genesect will want to come in a lot. Rapid Spinners and Defogers also are good choices but Bouncers are what you would really want if you decide you dont want to run Heatran.

Weaknesses: While near impossible to check while its not locked into a move, its very easy to counter when it is. Genesect will have to run away many times during the battle in order to survive. Hazards will definatly take a toll on Genesect. As stated before, Fire types stop Genesect in its tracks. Heatran gets a special note, since it is Immune to Flamethrower, 4xs resists both Ice Beam ad U-Turn, and takes Thunderbolt like it was nothing, sets up Rocks or straight out kill Genesect. With the Steel Nerf, Genesect can no longer take pursuit so easily, so that can become a problem if exposed to multiple times.

Things to Remember: Genesect is not a Sweeper. Don't treat it like it will alwase kill whatever is in, rather, try to asses the situation and see if you can do more damage later on. Try to lead with Genesect, and use it as much as you can. Also, try to stay away from fighting types.

 

[aVocado]

^ Now that's more like it. Posting viable OU Pokemon.

Only thing is the Role you have for it is incorrect. Read the roles in the OP, "Scouting Lead" isn't one of them. Scarf Genesect is a revenge killer.

 

[Idyll]

^Or "Lead." It's an actual role that has it's own hide box.

 

[Ada]

Should probably stay away from Genesect imo, it'll be U-turning out of OU soon enough

 

[Garchomp for president]

I actually don't see Genesect leaving anytime soon. Its not really broken but it is pretty powerful.

 

[rachet67]

Well, we'll find out on Sunday.

 

[Idyll]

That is actually the first thing in the hide tab "Wallbreaker" category found in the OP.

 

[Always!]

^That is actually the first thing in the hide tab "Wallbreaker" category found in the OP.

I find it funny that you take the time to look throughout the entire thread... and somehow miss it.

I'm an idiot ;-;.

Welp, I'll try something else then.

 

[Always!]

Ok, lets try this again.

Mega Absol@Absolite
Magic Bounce
Naive 252 Atk/4 SpA/252 Spe
-Sucker Punch
-Play Rough
-Fire Blast
-Swords Dance/Pursuit

Role: Lategame Sweeper

What it does: Sweep Lategame, with no interruptions. Absol had a problem and it was a big one. It was really slow, too slow to make use of its fantastic coverage, and coupled with the defences of your brown lunch bag, it couldn't take hits. Mega evolution arguably solved almost everything. 155/115 offences coupled with 115 base speed is fantastic for a sweeper. Also, it gained something really nifty as well. It is one of the few users of the coveted ability Magic Bounce, and its most offensive user. Now, you'd think it's goal is to simply come in sweep, giving no time to actually abuse Magic Bounce. But that isn't how you use it. What makes this ability so good is it can setup in the face of any defensively oriented pokemon. And fear nothing. Rotom-W sensing an incoming sweep, uses Will-o-Wisp? Bam, gets sent back to it. Klefki wanting to paralyze you and SwagKey you to death? I wonder how it feels when Klefki is put in the same position, Confused and Paralyzed. MAbsol's biggest niche is that it can't be stopped through status. At +2 (which isn't very hard considering you can setup very easily on most defensive pokemon), you have no choice other than kill it in order to beat it. And if you're RKer is frailer than Garchomp and doesn't resist Sucker Punch? It's probably going to die. Fucking SmogonBird (Talonflame) can't get past this thing unless it runs Jolly, which is pretty damn impressive. Onto its moveset, it is pretty nice. Sucker Punch is a solid STAB that has priority and 80 BP, which should be a staple on any MAbsol. Play Rough offers Fantastic coverage alongside Sucker Punch, and is a generally good move in almost all situations. Fire Blast, coupled with its new and improved base 115 SpA, helps it beat Mawile and Klefki, the only two pokemon that resist its SP/PR combo, and is a good move to hit Ferro and other weakened walls with. Swords Dance is the key move here, as it makes MAbsol a very strong hitter, which makes it a fantastic Lategame Sweeper. Pursuit is there if you feel you don't need SD, and Night Slash is a solid STAB move overall.

Good Teammates: As a Lategame Sweeper, it needs a lot of prior damage to wear down faster/bulkier pokemon (less so if using Swords Dance). Because of this, hazards like STealth Rocks or Spikes are fantastic, and really help weaken MAbsols opponents and walls before attempting the sweep. Wallbreakers like Kyurem-B and Mixed Aegisalsh really help it, and have the added benefit of being able to stay away from Status+Entry Hazards, which is very nice (due to MAbsol being there to reflect them). Also, having an answer to AV Conkeldurr is necessay, as nothing stops an MAbsol sweep better than him, as priority Mach Punch and SP resistance is perfect for stopping it. Things like Latios with Psyshock and other pokemon that can wear it down greatly help.

What Counters it: Bulk. And Priority. See, MAbsol has a bulk probem, as its defenses were never changed, meaning that if you're opponent manages to land an SE/really strong hit on you... it's over. Any Bulky pokemon like Conkeldurr or Azumarill can usually beat MAbsol unless enough prior damage has been taken so that SP or coverage kills it. Beware, don't use things like Talonflame, because you're asking to get SPed in the face. Bulky Scarfers are a good choice, but always play safe around this thing, as it isn't limited to that set, and your Garchomp coming in on an (unboosted) Fire Blast could be met with an Ice Beam.

Additional Information: As addressed in the last sentence, the amount of options MAbsol has is so insane, it is rather hard to say. Picture it this way. It learns a move from 16 out of the 18 types. You have options like Thunder/Bolt, Ice Beam or Blizzard, Flamethrower, Megahorn, Superpower, Psycho Cut etc... Whatever your team needs, MAbsol probably has a move you can tack on for help.

If I'm missing anything, please feel free to tell me, and if this needs any changes or I've done a shit job, please tell me. ;-;

Edit: Got a decent replay :/

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/frost-ou-297747

 

[NotBruceWayne]

I'm too lazy to skim through the thread so if this has already been done, sorry lol.

Reuniclus @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock/Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Recover/Shadow Ball

Role: Stallbreaker

What It Does: I know TR Reuniclus is a thing, but a CM set is also really viable (I've been trying this one out ever since I saw that teambuilding challenge thread sooo). It's ability, Magic Guard alone makes it a real pain in the ass of stall teams. It has excellent bulk and a hell of a lot of Special Attack. 110 / 75 / 85 defenses isn't bad at all and that juicy 125 SpA is nothing to laugh at. Those stats and Magic Guard allow it many opportunities to set up CMs. It also has a reliable form of recovery in well, Recover and access to a decent Hidden Ability in Regenerator which keep it alive longer than most boosting sweepers. Psyshock is my preferred move as it hits Chanseys and Blisseys hard (252+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Chansey: 610-719 (86.6 - 102.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO and 252+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 242-285 (34.3 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO) while Focus Blast allows it to hit the likes of Heatran (252+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 250-296 (64.7 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery). Shadow Ball allows it to hit Ghosts and other Psychic types but having Recover allows it to stay longer and wreak more havoc thus making it a more viable option especially against Stall.

Good Teammates: If you choose to run Recover over Shadow Ball, having a Pursuit-trapper like Tyranitar, Bisharp or Weaville would be nice as it allows you to remove those pesky Ghosts and Psychics (Latias, Aegislash those kinds of shit) that you couldn't hit and you destroy those Fighting types that they all hate. If you have chosen Shadow Ball (or some other coverage move) then Wish support would be appreciated because despite his bulk, Reuniclus gets worn down by the omnipresent U-turn rather easily. Tyranitar, Garchomp and other SR setters also make good partners as hazard support would be greatly appreciated against VoltTurn or any team actually.

What Counters It: Faster Dark and Bug types could make quick work of our green friend. And with his measly 30 Speed, there are a lot of Pokemon that outspeed Reuniclus. Bisharp could come in on a free switch and threaten to OHKO Reuniclus with Knock Off. A CB Tyranitar could Pursuit-trap Reuniclus or could potentially OHKO with Crunch. Predicting and relying on Focus Miss to hit these two isn't always going to work out all the time (believe me, I tried). Scizor could simply U-turn out and potentially OHKO or switch to a poke that resists Reuniclus' attacks. Specially defensive Jirachi resists Psychic/Psyshock and is neutral to Focus Blast and could Paraflinch Reuniclus to death while Latias possesses excellent special bulk and could take a Shadow Ball, and Recover of the damage.

Any Additional Info: One can take advantage of this green blob's abysmal speed by running a TR a set (which I believe is more common). The TR set absolutely wrecks offensive teams that are unprepared for it but this CM set should also be considered when building a team.

EDIT: Set Recover as the primary option with Shadow Ball slashed in as a secondary option. Added calc for 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Theres no such thing as 252 hp / 4 def chansey. That said i am not sure how youre going to break stall when recover is being slashed with other moves instead of being a primary option.

 

[aVocado]

Yeah, if Reuniclus wants to break stall, CM/Recover/Psyshock are three moves he absolutely needs. I guess Focus Blast grants some good coverage. It'll be Aegislash bait for sure, but yeah, that's what he needs if he wants to stallbreak.

 

[rachet67]

Yeah, Calm mind Reuniclus should always be running recover, its only on the OTR set that you can drop it for shadowball.

 

[trc]

Good to see that we're getting some actual roles here. The "Lead" category is not for things that can simply obtain momentum in addition to their actual role, it is for dedicated leads such as Deoxys-D, Smeargle, Galvantula, and Froslass.

 

[Jin White]

Use ^_^

Volcarona @ Lum Berry
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Rock] / Bug Buzz

Role: Special Sweeper

What It Does: With access to Quiver Dance, undeniably one of the best boosting moves in the game, Volcarona is truly a threatening opponent to face. Boasting 135 Special Attack paired with 100 Speed, Volcarona can just attack from the get-go and expect a boost if it used Fiery Dance, another reason to use Volcarona. Quiver Dance is the main move, as without it, he can't outspeed mons it can usually kill such as Greninja, M-Charizard, M-Lucario (can take priority bar ESpeed), and others. The most spammable move on the set is Fiery Dance, a mandatory STAB with a 50% of boosting Spa by +1. The second move, Giga Drain, provides ways to answer Water-Types such as Rotom-W, Keldeo, Greninja, and friends while also providing valuable recovery. The last slot however is a bit unclear: if you want a sweep unhindered by Charizard, Dragonite, and others while luring in Talonflame, HP-Rock is the way to go. On the other hand, Bug Buzz provides a stronger STAB that can pass through Substitutes; the last slot is merely coverage versus reliability. Overall, Volcarona is an asset to any team that can abuse it to it's fullest, and a threat to any team without Heatran.
Teammates: A good Hazards Remover mon is a must for any team using Volcarona, as it is hampered by Stealth Rock greatly, losing 49-50% percent of its health per switch-in. Solid answers to Heatran, Tyrannitar, Pinsir, and to a lesser extent Garchomp are preferred; Landorus-T can easily keep all of them at bay and also provides SR for easier kills, while Conkeldurr handles the former two comfortably. If lacking HP-Rock, answers to Flying-Types that resist Fiery Dance are also preferred to open up a Volcarona sweep.

What Counters It: Heatran is the best Volcarona counter to ever exist, with an immunity to Fire and 4x resistances to Grass and Bug. Meanwhile, Tyrannitar gets massive Special bulk in the sand and can easily Stone Edge Volcarona into oblivion and Talonflame that safely switch in can easily kill with priority Brave Bird. Scarfed Pokemon with a strong, preferably Super-Effective physical move can easily handle Volcarona if they outspeed; otherwise, any mon that can live Volc and hit back Physically just checks.
Any Additional Info: Fire Blast can go over Fiery Dance for more instant power; however, the boost chance will be missed. Lum Berry is the preferred item to protect from stray status, but any item such as Life Orb can be used as well.

^ I'd almost go so far as to put the above set up for "DO NOT USE" because the bulky Volcarona set gets more mileage in the current meta - - if Volcarona weren't such a Quiver Dancin beast regardless.

USE

Volcarona (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 Spd
Bold Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz / Giga Drain
- Roost

Role: Special Sweeper

What It Does:

It lives. It keeps pumping like a beating heart and it gets stronger and stronger until the opposing team is overwhelmed by the beautiful flames. It lives because it tanks physical hits, it sponges special hits, and it restores itself back to full health after setting up. Here are some of the more prominent threats it beats and/or sets up on: Genesect, Aegislash, Scizor, Mega Venusaur, LO Deoxys-S, AV Conkeldurr, Mega Mawile, etc. It can tank a hit from and subsequently set up on 4 SpAtk Rotom-W.

It can serve as a bulky pivot early and mid-game, sponging resisted hits and fishing for burns. Then, once the field is cleared of key threats (Chansey/Blissey, Talonflame/Mega Pinsir, incoming Stone Edges & Rock Slides), it finds an opening and it strikes. The spread I listed gets the jump on Greninja after one boost (and is marginally bulkier than defensive Timid spreads), but you can tailor it to beat Noivern or w/e you want.

Bug Buzz hits a hell of a lot harder than Giga Drain, hits through subs, and has a chance to drop SpDef; Giga Drain hits Azumarill and Keldeo and makes Volcarona that much harder to kill. Both are viable.

Good Teammates:

Volcarona needs a lot of support. You need to understand this at the start. There are a whole host of pokémon that can stop it from doing its job, so those pokémon need to be targeted early-game if you're aiming for a sweep. Defog/Rapid Spin support is a given; Lati@s and Mandibuzz are among the most reliable imo, but use whatever you like best.

I'm loving SD Terrakion as an offensive partner to nail Chansey/Blissey, Heatran, Tyranitar, other Rock- and Fire-types Volcarona doesn't want to face, while serving as an alternate win condition on the other defense when necessary. Basically, understand Volcarona's limitations and target its counters. Dual STAB or Fire/Grass has terrible coverage, so have multiple answers for the Fire-types and Flying/Dragons threatening the bug. Scarf Chomp/Latios are viable options.

Bring your favorite answer to Talonflame: mine is Rocky Helmet Garchomp.

What Counters It:

A whole lot. Chansey, Blissey, and Heatran are nigh unbreakable on the special side. Heavy physical hitters with EdgeQuake coverage are likely going to win. Physical hitters that resist Volcarona's two moves (notably Flying/Dragons) have to be severely weakened or, better yet, dealt with by a teammate. Volcarona hates Toxic, so it's not always wise to come in on walls expecting easy boosts, unless you've scouted the moveset first. Rocks make its life much harder, so bring your A-game hazard removal.

Talonflame needs to be removed; Mega Pinsir can't kill with Quick Attack, but outspeeds before a QD.

Any Additional Info:

Volcarona is well worth the support it requires. Look at the top-tier threats that cannot touch Volcarona. It turns so many opposing pokémon into liabilities and it cleans up easy. Understand its strengths and the limitations of this particular set, and the Sun Pokémon will take you far.

Low-rank yet decent replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-88172892
In which I play poorly, and Volcarona saves my ass (& also takes on a banded Dragonite): http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-88368824

 

[NotBruceWayne]

Theres no such thing as 252 hp / 4 def chansey. That said i am not sure how youre going to break stall when recover is being slashed with other moves instead of being a primary option.

Really? Hmmm. But then again, there isn't much that Chansey or Blissey can do in return against Reuniclus. Anyways I'm gonna edit the post and set Recover as the main option. Thanks!

Yeah, Calm mind Reuniclus should always be running recover, its only on the OTR set that you can drop it for shadowball.

Yeah, if Reuniclus wants to break stall, CM/Recover/Psyshock are three moves he absolutely needs. I guess Focus Blast grants some good coverage. It'll be Aegislash bait for sure, but yeah, that's what he needs if he wants to stallbreak.

Aight I'm implementing your suggestions! Thanks guys!

 

[Idyll]

^ I would almost go so far as to put the above set up for "DO NOT USE" because the bulky Volcarona set gets more mileage in the current meta.

USE

Volcarona (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 Spd
Bold Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Roost


Role: Special Sweeper

What It Does: It lives. It keeps pumping like a beating heart and it gets stronger and stronger until the opposing team is overwhelmed by the beautiful flames. It lives because it tanks physical hits, it sponges special hits, and it restores itself back to full health after setting up.

Here are some of the more prominent threats it beats and/or sets up on: Genesect, Aegislash, Scizor, Mega Venusaur, LO Deoxys-S, AV Conkeldurr, Mega Mawile, Bisharp, and many more. It can tank a hit from and subsequently set up on 4 SpAtk Rotom-W.

It can serve as a bulky pivot early and mid-game, sponging resisted hits and fishing for burns. Then, once the field is cleared of key threats (Chansey/Blissey, Talonflame/Mega Pinsir, incoming Stone Edges & Rock Slides), it finds an opening and it strikes. The spread I listed gets the jump on Greninja after one boost (and is marginally bulkier than defensive Timid spreads), but you can tailor it to beat Noivern or w/e you want.

Good Teammates: Volcarona needs a lot of support. You need to understand this at the start. There are a whole host of pokémon that can stop it from doing its job, so those pokémon need to be targeted early-game if you're aiming for a sweep.

Defog/Rapid Spin support is a given. Lati@s and Mandibuzz are among the most reliable imo, but use whatever you like best.

I'm loving SD Terrakion as an offensive partner to nail Chansey/Blissey, Heatran, Tyranitar, other Rock- and Fire-types Volcarona doesn't want to face, while serving as an alternate win condition on the other defense when necessary.

Basically, understand Volcarona's limitations and target its counters. Dual STAB has terrible coverage, so have multiple answers for the Fire-types and Flying/Dragons threatening the bug. Scarf Chomp/Latios are viable options.

Bring your favorite answer to Talonflame: mine is Rocky Helmet Garchomp.

What Counters It: A whole lot.

Chansey, Blissey, and Heatrans are nigh unbreakable on the special side. It hates Toxic and Paralysis. On the flip, regular poison is a blessing in disguise because it shrugs off the damage and then can't be afflicted any worse.

Heavy physical hitters with EdgeQuake coverage are likely going to win.

Talonflame needs to be removed; Mega Pinsir can't kill with Quick Attack, but outspeeds before a QD.

Rocks make its life much harder, so bring your top-tier hazard removal.

Any Additional Info: It's worth the support it requires. Look at the top-tier threats that cannot touch Volcarona. It turns so many opposing pokémon into liabilities and it cleans up easy. Understand its strengths and the limitations of this particular set, and the Sun Pokémon will take you far.

Decent replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-88172892

In all honesty, the two sets play differently; mine is just shoot things until they're dead while yours is a bit more of bulky boosting. But putting it in "do not used," I'm not fine with; it's not that bad.

Anyways, I like your set. If people think yours is better, I'm fine with it.

Edit: Perhaps mention that Dragonite w/ Multiscale up cockblocks Volcarona and sets up on its face even at +3? A +1 Dnite can then kill with combination of Dragon Claw and ESpeed, or heck, just Outrage.