Project OU Underdog Project (Week 17: Mega Abomasnow)

[SketchUp]

....Approved by Bludz

Art by Analytic​

............. ...................

Welcome to the revamp of this project where we take a look at some of the viable pokemon that are not (or in some situations only D rank) in the Viability Rankings.

To give the thread more activity than the previous thread I'll bring up two pokemon every week. The first pokemon is the subject for discussion for that week. The second pokemon will be the subject for discussion for the week after that, but I will present it a week earlier to give you guys some time to play with some sets, so the discussions will be primarily based on the players experiences instead of theorymonning.

Week 1:
Subject for discussion:

Snorlax

Test pokemon (will be subject for discussion in week 2):

Tornadus-Incarnate

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Snorlax was already the underdog of the week in the previous thread once (which I want to try to avoid more often) but since Snorlax is one of the most interesting unranked pokemon and not everyone about Snorlax have been said, we will take another look at our favorite tubby.
Snorlax's main niche is its nice special bulk, which, coupled with Thick Fat and a possible Assault Vest, gives Snorlax the ability to check common special attackers such as Mega Charizard-Y and Mega Alakazam. Although a mediocre Return or Body Slam is its only viable STAB option, coverage moves can help Snorlax get past steel types, ghost types and rock types.
However, Snorlax isn't without its weaknesses. The lack of resistances outside an immunity to ghost types and the lack of high damage output leaves Snorlax vulnerable to common pokemon such as Mega Sableye, Keldeo, Skarmory and Garchomp. Add the lack of reliable recovery and Snorlax can be less impressive than you may have expected.

What sets should Snorlax run? What does Snorlax offer over other normal types?, and on what archetypes does Snorlax fit best? Replays or sample teams to show your experiences are obviously appreciated!

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Week 1:
Week 2:
Week 3:
Week 4:

Week 5:
Week 6:
Week 7:
Week 8:
Week 9:
Week 10:
Week 11:
Week 12:
Week 13:
Week 14:
Week 15:
Week 16:
Week 17:

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

Snorlax @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature

- Return
- Pursuit
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

Spread is basically the UU one. AV Snorlax has the ability to consistently check special wallbreakers such as Zard Y, Alakazam, Mega Garde, Latios, Latias and Gengar thanks to its excellent mixed defenses and access to a decently strong Pursuit. This allows Snorlax to Pursuit trap Lati@s and Gengar while laughing at anything they try to do (bar like 2 psyshocks from latios with rocks up) and thus play as a effective team player on teams that struggle with them, particularly balance teams. Unlike Metagross, it doesn't have much trouble with Heatran, Landorus-T or Gliscor either.

Return is a strong STAB move that allows Snorlax to deal decent damage all-around; Pursuit is what makes Snorlax worth using, due to its ability to check the wallbreakers i mentioned. Earthquake hits Heatran and Tyranitar, as well as Bisharp and Zard X, while Ice Punch disposes of Gliscor and Lando-T and can also be used in a pinch against Tankchomp.

Good partners include Slowbro for its ability to stand up to fighting-types, especially Mega Lopunny, Manaphy or Hoopa-U against walls who can status it, and Ferrothorn for its ability to set up entry hazards, as well as bait out Charizard Y and some Gengar.

 

[SketchUp]

Personally I'm not the biggest fan of AV because its job is kinda outdone by other trappers. AV Metagross being the obvious trapper for Alakazam and Latios, Tyranitar traps Gengar + Latios and Krookodile traps Heatran. I'd also rather have Fire Punch than Ice Punch for the ability to hit Ferrothorn, who can be very annoying as it can switch in without any trouble if you lack Fire Punch and stack hazards. Not being pretty much deadweight against common steel types like AV Metagross is kinda cool but I still don't see much reason to use the AV Pursuit set over either Metagross, Tyranitar or Krookodile.

Another set I like to use:

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 208 HP / 184 Def / 112 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Whirlwind
- Body Slam

While it's not the best switchin to special attackers like AV is, it can still check many pokemon such as Heatran, Mega Manectric, AV Tornadus-T and Starmie. I used this on a hazards stacking team I stole from one of Tom Bus' videos (removed the Magcargo though) and it works much better than I expected. Most things about this set are quite obvious. Switch in against a pokemon that can't really hurt you like Heatran or Amoonguss and start clicking Whirlwind once your spikes are up. I prefer Body Slam over Return because the paralysis chance is very helpful when you're using Sleep Talk (Sleep Talk ignores Whirlwind's -5 priority) If you're asleep and the opponent is slower, you have a 1/3 chance that your opponent can't make a move that turn and let them take another possible 25% or more from Spikes + Stealth Rock damage. Body Slam's paralysis and the 4 Speed to outpace Slowbro and Amoonguss really help with that. Unfortunately, it's more useless against stall than Hippowdon is because Skarmory + Chansey (to heal Skarm's paralysis) and Mega Sableye completely stop this strategy. However, so are all of Snorlax' sets so that is more of an issue of Snorlax itself than of this set only.
Because of its good SpD stat, it can still be helpful in situations without hazards on the field against setup sweepers such as Manaphy, (+3 Scald does 52% max) Clefable, and NastyPass Celebi. Teammates like Banded Scizor, Thundurus and Heatran don't have to worry too much about being worn down too quickly so they can still revengekill these pokemon later in the match.

 

[Infernal]

Snorlax @ Chople Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Def / 144 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Counter
- Pursuit
- Fire Punch or Superpower

Snorlax always invites powerful fighting and physical attacks. Whether its threats like Mega Lopunny, or other attackers like Mega Metagross, these Pokemon all severely threaten the poor thing. They are all given the chance to use their powerful STABs and threaten the opposing team once they find the opportunity to come in on Snorlax. By using Chople Berry in conjunction with Counter, this set aims to exploit this by potentially surprising many of Snorlax's usual switch ins. Here are some examples of how that's accomplished:

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Mega Lopunny - This is the main target this set aims to lure. With the given spread, HJK does 58.5 - 68.8%. As such, you live and Counter the hit for a KO, or kill with Superpower.

Mega Metagross - You live Meteor Mash (55 - 65%) and Hammer Arm (40.8 - 48.1%), allowing you to Counter for a kill.

Mega Heracross - 68 - 80.3% with CC, so you can reflect the damage back with Counter.

Azumarill - You live anything up to CB Play Rough (71.2 - 83.8%) and Superpower (63.2 - 74.5%), and Counter afterwards.

Tyranitar - Same idea. You live Superpower from CB and CS, KOing afterwards with Counter or your own Superpower if you chose it as coverage.

Mega Scizor - Without factoring in SR, you are guaranteed to live +2 Superpower and kill back with Fire Punch or Counter. They could opt to use Bug Bite instead for the 68.8% chance to KO. However, in a last mon situation, it's safe to say they'll go for Superpower to secure what they believe would be a KO.

I could go on and on, but that should convey the general idea behind the set: taking advantage of the strong physical attackers Snorlax invites in and has no way of punishing for doing so. Chople Berry's usefulness isn't limited to physical fighting attacks, though. There are several special attackers powerful enough to heavily dent Snorlax with Focus Blast. Examples are Mega Gardevoir, Mega Alakazam, Charizard-Y, NP Thundurus-I, Gengar, and Mega Alakazam. Many of them could be compelled to try and kill Snorlax once they say it's within range, and Chople Berry lets you take the hit and Return them for some unexpected damage. Also makes trapping Gengar and Mega Alakazam easier, which is always helpful.

One other thing I would like to mention is Keldeo. Although Counter doesn't work against Secret Sword, you do live a hit and damage pony for 45.8 - 54.1% with Return. Why is this worth mentioning? Because if you pair Snorlax with certain teammates appreciating the things Snorlax is luring being weakened or removed, you can form some interesting combinations. As an example, let's say you pair Snorlax with Bisharp. Bisharp loves seeing things like Mega Lopunny gone, or Keldeo weakened to a point where it can no longer take a boosted Sucker Punch.

Lastly, another potential way to use this or Snorlax in general is with Gunk Shot. This gives you the niche of being a nice response to Clefable, while hitting other fairies hard. Overall, this set performs really badly against more defensive builds. I would say it's best used as a panic button on more offensive builds. This is because Snorlax can lure Pokemon this archetype often struggles against (Mega Lopunny), or check pesky threats for offense (Mega Alakazam, Mega Manectric, and so on). Really, this set is just theory and mostly has situational use. I tried coming up with something interesting since Snorlax has a lot of problems in OU, and wanted to share the idea.

 

[SketchUp]

Week 2:
Subject for discussion:

Although it seems outclassed by its Therian forme, Tornadus Incarnate some niches in the OU Metagame. Tornadus-I can combine its good support movepool with Prankster and its good offensive movepool with better offensive stats than Tornadus-T. What are some sets Tornadus-I can use in the OU Metagame? On what teams does Tornadus-I fit? and How can Tornadus-I distinquish itself from Tornadus-T? are some of the questions you can think about while discussing this pokemon. Replays, sample teams and sets are appreciated

Test pokemon (will be subject for discussion in week 3):

 

[Infernal]

Higher attacking stats aside, the main thing incarnate has over the therian is Prankster. I see a few ways to make use of this:

Rain Dance: Priority RD could be useful on dedicated rain teams looking for a quick way to get rain back up, especially if Politoed has died. This could be used with Damp Rock, or with LO to give Torn-I more power and to take advantage of Hurricane. It's still outclassed by the therian forme on rain teams overall, but is still a small niche nonetheless.

Bulk Up: Priority BU is another thing Torn-I has over its better half. It makes use of Prankster and Torn-I's higher attack, which is backed by Acrobatics and moves like Superpower and Heat Wave to cover its resistances. With Taunt, it can stop Skarm and Hippo from phazing away its boosts, two Pokemon who otherwise give these variants trouble.

Tailwind: I've never been a fan of Tailwind, but it could be a clutch supporting move on special attacking sets.

The other trait Torn-I has over the therian form is Defiant. It's the same concept as Defiant Thund-I, taking advantage of Defog and Intimidate to gain the boost in attack. These variants would likely run something along the lines of Acrobatics / Superpower / Knock Off / U-turn. RD/special attacking sets are likely way more useful and effective though.

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Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Tail
- Stealth Rock

Tornadus (M)
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Acrobatics
- Superpower
- Taunt

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Return
- Fake Out
- Ice Punch

Heatran @ Power Herb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Solar Beam

BU Torn-I interested me the most, so here is a team I tried making around it for fun. One thing BU Torn-I has trouble with are bulky grounds like RH Garchomp and Lando-T. Removing or weakening these two is necessary for BU Torn-I to work. Mega Lop with Ice Punch came to mind as a partner, since RH Chomp and Lando-T commonly switch in on the bunny and become weakened. Moreover, Mega Lop is a generally useful Pokemon, covering threats like Bisharp and performing well against offense. From there, I decided to choose my SR setter. Because of its ability to handle Mega Sciz and wear down U-turners troubling BU Torn-I (Jirachi and Lando-T, as examples), I decided to go with my own RH Chomp.

With these three decided, I figured it'd be a good idea to cover as many threats as possible with the remaining slots. For this reason, Slowbro and Clefable were added. Slowbro gives me a bulky response to threats like Charizard-X, Keldeo, Excadrill, and other Mega Lopunny. With CM, it's able to take on Clef too, which sweeps me otherwise. Clefable offers a check to Kyurem-B and the electrics troubling the team, while being a generally useful response to various Pokemon with Thunder Wave. Power Herb Heatran rounds things off, providing firepower and luring some roadblocks to BU Torn-I, like Rotom-W and Slowbro. A solid answer to grass types is also nice, since Torn-I can't check things like Mega Venu and others as consistently as AV Torn-T possibly could. The team probably isn't that great, but it's an example of how I'd approach building around mister incarnate I guess :s

The slots could probably be play around with to include Defog or Spin, which is helpful since since Torn-I doesn't have Regenerator. In any case, Roserade looks cool to use and should be fun to explore for week 3!

 

[p2]

Ok so this is a pretty cool core I experimented with for a little while, but with Tailwind Torn-T over Torn-I.
Point is to set Tailwind, u-turn out, and let your wallbreakers go wild and just crush faster teams while also cancelling out any chances of relevant scarfers being able to revenge kill your breakers.

Other nice breakers to pair with Tailwind Torn-I:

Hide

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

Tornadus (M) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tailwind
- U-turn
- Heat Wave
- Hurricane

 

[Martin]

Something fun to mess around with on Tailwind Torn-I is Eject Button, which allows it to switch out to another mon on the turn that it gets hit, giving them an extra turn of Tailwind. It only works once, but its pretty potent if you manage to pull it off.

What I like about Torn-I over Torn-T is that it has much more freedom as to what it can do with its item slot. TBH I don't like anything other than LO and AV on Torn-T, but due to its slightly different stat spread and ability set Torn-I is much easier to fit team-specific items onto like Yache, Wacan and the aforementioned Eject Button. Also its rain set w/ Damp Rock is pretty cash and one of its big niches over other prankster users (due to Thundy having to sacrifice coverage or T-wave, torn is a better backup rain setter imo).

 

[AM]

Sets

Bass In The D (Pinsir) (M) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Close Combat
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance

Woo Hah (Landorus-Therian) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock

Sunrays (Starmie) @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin

Conducted Rhythms (Tornadus) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- Iron Tail
- Tailwind

Solitude (Magnezone) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Magnet Pull
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Magnet Rise

Mind Touch (Keldeo-Resolute) @ Mystic Water
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Secret Sword
- Scald
- Icy Wind
- Taunt

This is an old team that you can use as a foundation to give you an idea of your basic Tailwind Torn-I similar to fleggs concept (no I will not accept p2 as your new name smh). Get rocks, fire off shots, pressure with doubles until you can get into Tailwind mode and break stuff with Pinsir + Keldeo normally. It's a pretty crappy team ngl but normally the Tailwind Torn-I + Wallbreakers of your choosing is generally a good start to what kind of partners you would use Torn-I with. No replays on me that I could find unfortunately but it's a start to get some ideas going. Enjoy.

 

[Reigako]

I'm surprised that almost nobody thought about Rain when thinking to Torna-I.
(Welcome back to BW ayyyyy lmao)

I created a team that i didn't tested yet, but as it's the classic rain team, i don't think there's any problem with it.

Hide

Tornadus (M) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Taunt
- Rain Dance

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Encore
- Rest

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Power-Up Punch

Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 80 HP / 176 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog
- Healing Wish

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock

 

[Alfalfa]

I'm surprised that almost nobody thought about Rain when thinking to Torna-I.
(Welcome back to BW ayyyyy lmao)

I created a team that i didn't tested yet, but as it's the classic rain team, i don't think there's any problem with it.

Hide

Tornadus (M) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Taunt
- Rain Dance

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Encore
- Rest

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Power-Up Punch

Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 80 HP / 176 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog
- Healing Wish

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock

That team is a sitting duck for standard offense squads featuring Zard Y or Thundurus, as these squads usually utilize consistent counterplay to Latias and Mega Swampert. A more aggressive team, like Politoed / Tornadus / Omastar | Kingdra / Lando-T / Raikou / Azumarill makes larger use of Tailwind + Rain and possesses the raw power necessary to put pressure on the numerous Pokemon that possess an advantage against this team.

 

[SketchUp]

I don't think Zard Y and Thundurus are the biggest threats for the team. Zard Y loses to Politoed and Latias so even with a Pursuit trapper you still have a second counter. Nasty Plot Thundurus will just be forced out by Swampert and Latias can also take hit so the only really threatening set is LO 3 Attacks which have to hit Focus Blast to get around Swampert and Ferrothorn and still lose 1v1 against 3 / 6 mons. Yeah obviously teams have counterplay against MSwamp and Latias but it still puts Thundurus on a timer considering LO Recoil and Stealth Rock weakness.
With the team I would be more afraid of offensive flying types like LO Torn-T, MPinsir and SD Talonflame. The lack of a flying resist (Kabutops / Oma / Klef / Thundy / Whatever) is rarely seen on rain teams because offensive flying types and especially Talonflame are such big threats to rain builds. I think the biggest issue with Tornadus on rain teams is that you often prefer Thundy / Klef as secondary rain setters because they deal with some rain threats much better than Tornadus does and as an offensive wallbreaker Torn-T is prefered for the extra speed and Regenerator. It just doesn't really fit well on rain teambuilding-wise.

 

[SketchUp]

Week 3:

At first sight Roserade doesn't seem really interesting. Offensive grass types as defensive grass types are both common in OU and with pokemon like Amoonguss, Serperior, Ferrothorn and Mega Venusaur around, you won't be seeing Roserade too often in the tier. However, a combination of a high Special Attack stat, strong STABs and useful support moves make Roserade a pretty useful pokemon. What sets can Roserade use successfully? How does Roserade separate itself from other grass and poison types? and maybe even the most important queston: On what teams does Roserade find a niche?
Replays, Sample Teams and Sample Sets are ofcourse appreciated!

Pokemon for Week 4:

 

[Vxy]

I've used Roserade before (and a decent amount too) and it pulls its weight most of the time.

There was a point in time when I slapped Roserade on every Zard X team I made (and I make a ton of those) because of its ability to compress many roles into one: Keldeo and Azumarill check, Mega Altaria check, Grass and Electric check aside from Mega Manectric, and, most importantly a Spiker. (Toxic) Spikes is what sets it apart from other Grass types like Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, Celebi, and Tangrowth. It has a pretty good Special Attack stat and hits surprisingly hard with a Modest nature even without LO.

Set I used:

Roserade @ Black Sludge
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 144 HP / 136 Def / 208 SpA / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
- Spikes
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Rest

HP and Defense EVs allow it to avoid 2HKO from Specs Keldeo Secret Sword and +1 Adamant Mega Altaria EQ after rocks. SpA EVs allow it to OHKO BD Azu from full with Sludge Bomb, while also OHKOing offensive Mega Alt from full. Speed EVs outspeed max speed Jolly Azu although that's kind of useless now so changing that is recommended. Rest + Natural Cure is great because you can Rest up on a Keldeo/Azumarill that's switching, switch out yourself the turn after and be at full health to come in again, or you can set Spikes as they switch to Heatran or whatever. The moveset is fairly customizable, because you can also use Toxic Spikes, or HP Fire or Ground to hit Ferrothorn and Heatran respectively. Unfortunately, I don't see much more versatility outside of that for a more defensive set like this one. Some calcs against stuff (obviously it's not wallbreaking or anything):

208+ SpA Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 141-166 (47.1 - 55.5%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
208+ SpA Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Raikou: 153-180 (47.6 - 56%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO
208+ SpA Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 111-132 (34.3 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
208+ SpA Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tornadus-T: 186-219 (62.2 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I think LO Spikes could be viable as an offensive Spiker that isn't super passive like Klefki although I'm theorymonning here because I've never used it. But yeah, it has some pretty sweet role compression for those looking for a Spiker that can check Waters and Fairies and fit on offense. It has some luring capabilities and can act as a status absorber too.

 

[SketchUp]

I've used Roserade before (and a decent amount too) and it pulls its weight most of the time.

There was a point in time when I slapped Roserade on every Zard X team I made (and I make a ton of those) because of its ability to compress many roles into one: Keldeo and Azumarill check, Mega Altaria check, Grass and Electric check aside from Mega Manectric, and, most importantly a Spiker. (Toxic) Spikes is what sets it apart from other Grass types like Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, Celebi, and Tangrowth. It has a pretty good Special Attack stat and hits surprisingly hard with a Modest nature even without LO.

Set I used:

Roserade @ Black Sludge
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 144 HP / 136 Def / 208 SpA / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
- Spikes
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Rest

HP and Defense EVs allow it to avoid 2HKO from Specs Keldeo Secret Sword and +1 Adamant Mega Altaria EQ after rocks. SpA EVs allow it to OHKO BD Azu from full with Sludge Bomb, while also OHKOing offensive Mega Alt from full. Speed EVs outspeed max speed Jolly Azu although that's kind of useless now so changing that is recommended. Rest + Natural Cure is great because you can Rest up on a Keldeo/Azumarill that's switching, switch out yourself the turn after and be at full health to come in again, or you can set Spikes as they switch to Heatran or whatever. The moveset is fairly customizable, because you can also use Toxic Spikes, or HP Fire or Ground to hit Ferrothorn and Heatran respectively. Unfortunately, I don't see much more versatility outside of that for a more defensive set like this one. Some calcs against stuff (obviously it's not wallbreaking or anything):

208+ SpA Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 141-166 (47.1 - 55.5%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
208+ SpA Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Raikou: 153-180 (47.6 - 56%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO
208+ SpA Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 111-132 (34.3 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
208+ SpA Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tornadus-T: 186-219 (62.2 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I think LO Spikes could be viable as an offensive Spiker that isn't super passive like Klefki although I'm theorymonning here because I've never used it. But yeah, it has some pretty sweet role compression for those looking for a Spiker that can check Waters and Fairies and fit on offense. It has some luring capabilities and can act as a status absorber too.

I would keep the 20 Speed EVs to outspeed defensive Lando-T. You can 2HKO it with Life Orb with that spread and since defensive Lando-T is really common nowadays it's definitely a benchmark you should consider.
I think the best way to use Roserade is just to go fully offensive and use 3 Attacks / STABs Sleep Powder + Spikes . Since you don't really care about your bulk Technician is really nice to boost Hidden Power. HP Fire OHKO's Ferrothorn and HP Ground OHKO's SpDef Heatran so even though you will still lose to the other steel type, it opens up some nice lure possibilities. The thing that makes Roserade so interesting is that even standard Life Orb sets can really surprise some opponents. Considering Leaf Storm + Sludge Bomb there are still 2 moveslots left for Hidden Power, Sleep Powder, Synthesis / Rest and (Toxic) Spikes. Hidden Power Fire + Spikes is my personal favorite to have the best possible hazards advantage against Hippowdon + Ferrothorn + Clefable balanced hazards stacking teams.
Obviously sets that don't utilise Spikes or Toxic Spikes are less appealing because Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss give it competition but advantages such as not taking up the Mega slot, better speed, Leaf Storm and the ability to break +1 Clefable makes it worth using on offensive teams. The fast sleep can be crucial and Rest to heal up entirely to check fairies and water types late game is a nice tool. Nothing great and 9 out of 10 times you rather use Modest Mega Venusaur if you don't have Spikes, but if you already have the mega slot occupied and the fast sleep is something you really like it's definitely worth trying.

 

[Martin]

I've used it a little recently and this is what I've been running:

Roserade @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure / Technician
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Spikes
- Sludge Bomb
- Toxic Spikes / Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ground

The EVs creep jolly MGyara and MAlt to nuke them with Leaf Storm and Sludge Bomb respectively. As a spiker, it has bits and pieces going for it in terms of typing, although it isn't all that good in general. Technician is actually pretty important with Hidden Power as it allows it to net an OHKO on SpD Heatran after rocks and nets a 2HKO on SpD Skarm 100% of the time (which Natural Cure sometimes misses out on cause of its pathetic BP). I'm not keen on recovery on offensive Roserade personally as it simply doesn't have enough moveslots to fit it imo due to just how much competition it faces in the fourth moveslot (all of those three have more utility imo).

Also ages ago me and a friend messed around with Specs Roserade for the hell of it and found it funny to see stuff get nuked by Leaf Storm, but overall it wasn't that good for more reasons than I can remember lol.

 

[SketchUp]

Week 4:

Crobat's typing and good speed tier makes it a good offensive check to pokemon such as Mega Altaria, Serperior and many fighting types. However, its weaknesses to common types, including a weakness to Stealth Rocks, makes it vulnerable to pokemon such as Tyranitar and Thundurus. While its movepool contains moves such as Taunt, Defog and Super Fang, it is still shut down by bulky ground types and most steel types.
What sets can Crobat run in OU? What coverage moves are the most important to it and on what teams does Crobat warrant a place? Replays and Sets are appreciated as usual!

Pokemon for week 5:

 

[Ramses]

I've used Crobat a bit on Fairy weak teams that needed hazard removal

Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP / 184 Def / 80 Spe
Impish Nature
- Super Fang / Brave Bird
- Taunt
- Roost
- Defog

Takes a defensive approach with Crobat. I've tried a Specially Defensive Variant as well if you'd rather be able to check Keldeo and friends better. Spread outruns Keldeo while pumping up bulk. I prefer Super Fang just to punish switch-ins to Bat a lot better. Being able to slice a clean 50% off shit like TankChomp and Defensive Landorus is awesome team support. I guess Brave Bird is cool if you want to have STAB for to dent stuff weak to it but Fang is generally better at least imo. Taunt gives it slight breaking capability in tandem with Super Fang and prevent most setters from resetting after Defog. Roost is healing obviously. Please don't use U-Turn. I know it gains momentum, but it's a waste of Taunt which is a better utility option.

Crobat is a little splashable but if you aren't fairy weak a Lati is always better.

 

[SketchUp]

I've used Crobat a bit on Fairy weak teams that needed hazard removal

Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP / 184 Def / 80 Spe
Impish Nature
- Super Fang / Brave Bird
- Taunt
- Roost
- Defog

Takes a defensive approach with Crobat. I've tried a Specially Defensive Variant as well if you'd rather be able to check Keldeo and friends better. Spread outruns Keldeo while pumping up bulk. I prefer Super Fang just to punish switch-ins to Bat a lot better. Being able to slice a clean 50% off shit like TankChomp and Defensive Landorus is awesome team support. I guess Brave Bird is cool if you want to have STAB for to dent stuff weak to it but Fang is generally better at least imo. Taunt gives it slight breaking capability in tandem with Super Fang and prevent most setters from resetting after Defog. Roost is healing obviously. Please don't use U-Turn. I know it gains momentum, but it's a waste of Taunt which is a better utility option.

Crobat is a little splashable but if you aren't fairy weak a Lati is always better.

I shouldn't use Crobat without BB because you fail to revengekill weakened pokemon. BB + Roost is the most important and the last 2 slots is Taunt / U-Turn and Super Fang / Defog / Taunt for me. Super Fang is nice early game to weaken bulky grounds (especially if you can stop their recovery next turn) but is kinda pointless later in the match and also competes with Taunt and U-Turn for a slot.
I think it's kinda a waste to use Crobat without the EVs to outspeed pokemon like Torn-T and Serperior which is one of its biggest selling points. I prefer an offensive spread with 24 HP / 252 Attack / 232 Speed Jolly in order to outspeed +1 Mega Altaria while also outspeeding Weavile and Tornadus-T. A bulkier spread is possible to take stuff like Weavile Ice Shard and Mega Lop's Return better but uninvested Brave Bird is really weak against pretty much anything that isn't weak to it.

This is the set I played a bit with when Mega Altaria and Serperior were really popular (5 months ago) which is basically the UU set with a bit more speed for Mega Altaria:

Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Taunt / Defog
- Roost

Crobat is definitely less useful than it was before but with the high usage of Clefable, Keldeo, Torn-T and MVenu it's still a useful offensive flying type. Haven't played with more offensive sets (LO / Band) in Bird Offensive teams but Defog is a valuable niche over Talonflame to support Pinsir. Banded / LO / Sky Plate with Defog, Brave Bird, U-Turn and Cross Poison is what I'd run but never had the opportunity to try it out. Especially because it defensive niche is mostly outdone by Talonflame bar the smaller rocks weakness.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

Good partners to Crobat include:

- Keldeo. This guy really loves stuff like Clefable and Azu in Specs Pump's KO range, while threatening Tyranitar, Heatran and Weavile. Crobat's LO Brave Bird OHKOes Latios and Latias after rocks, too.
- Mega Pinsir. Formes a decent birdspam core, having a slightly stronger BB than Talon with the ability to defog away hazards.
- Azumarill. Like Keldeo, it punishes Tyranitar, Weavile and Heatran. It also packs an effective revenge killing move against Diancie and Aero.
- Dugtrio. The ability to trap Heatran and Tyranitar is extremely valuable. Meanwhile, it also destroys Raikou and MegaMane, and against offensive teams, it can even use Sucker Punch to OHKO MegaZam.

 

[bluegrass]

Here's an old offensive pivot / stall breaker set I had a lot of success with on the ladder.

Crobat @ Sky Plate
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 176 HP / 100 Atk / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Taunt
- Toxic/Super Fang
- Roost

This was the set I posted on the viability ranking thread way back when Crobat got nommed to D rank. Crobat makes a potent stall breaker because of his speed and toxic immunity, although Mega Sableye is a pain in ass for him. The speed EVs with a Jolly nature outspeed max speed Mega Altaria at +1, who my team was weak too. I can't remember what specific KOs I was going for with the Atk investment, so they can probably be changed, even though I do prefer having some power behind his Brave Bird. Toxic/Super fang nail all the bulky grounds and waters that love switching in on Crobat. Dugtrio is a great partner for any set Crobat runs since he can trap and eliminate Heatran, TTar, and Raikou.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-240753116
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-238699010

Weavile's rise from Bl to OU really hurt Crobat. Even though he naturally outspeeds Weavile, Bat loves to customize his speed EVs for specific team needs, so having to run 216 to beat weavile sucks. Most people don't even bother since it's easier to just pair Crobat with Keldeo or Azumarill. Running so much speed means you're giving up substantial bulk investment, so Ice Shard does even more damage.

There is zero reason too run Choice Band Crobat. Talonflame outclasses him so hard it's not even funny. Flare Blitz is a way better stab than Cross Poison, and Infiltrator can't even compete with Gale Wings as an ability. Talonflame can also afford to run Adamant due to GW, meaning Crobat's extra 10 base attack isn't as great as it seems to be. Not being able to revenge kill Scarf Keldeo also blows.

 

[SketchUp]

Week 5:

Doublade was known as a pretty niche, but useful pokemon in XY after Aegislash got banned. In ORAS however, his popularity has dropped. Mainly because he can only check a few pokemon, but is deadweight outside of that. But considering the high usage of pokemon such as Mega Medicham, Clefable and Tornadus-T, Doublade is still a valuable pokemon on balanced teams. On what other teams does Doublade fit? What are good sets and good spreads for it? and how can Doublade be useful in a metagame filled with bulky ground types and bulky water types? Replays, Sample Teams and Sets are cool as always.

Week 6:

(Latios-Mega)

 

[Agent Gibbs]

At the very least, Doublade is a functional Pokemon. It switches into non-HP Fire Latios really nicely (heck, it can take a HP Fire if it needs to). It soft counters Mega Alakazam and Mega Diancie since it can switch in on a STAB, tank their coverage, and KO back. The fact that Clefables are running a lot of mixed defensive spreads and not a lot of Flamethrower means that running Iron Head > Gyro Ball makes Doublade a decent check. In fact, assuming paralysis boosts Gyro Ball's damage (I seem to remember that it does), even Gyro Ball Doublade makes for a great check if it switches in and catches a Thunder Wave. It also stops Mega Gardevoir pretty well, and of course it's good against things like Mega Medicham and the odd Terrakion. It's a shame that Heat Wave and Knock Off are so common on Tornadus-T or else it'd be great against that one too.

Thing is, most of this is pretty standard Steel stuff. You could just as easily run a Mega Scizor or Jirachi or something and have most of the above stuff taken care of while also having a much better Pokemon overall. Doublade was cool post-Aegislash ban when Mega Gardevoir/Medicham/Heracross and non-EQ Terrakion/Mega Pinsir were all the rage and you wanted to cover all of them with one team slot, but nowadays, I wouldn't really give Doublade much of a second thought over another Steel unless I really needed that Fighting immunity.

 

[Creator of Chaos]

Doublade is decent. Great Typing, Good bulk and access to Evolite. Unfortunatly while it is great for role condensing and checking many megas, Its poor move pool combined with competiton from the likes of sableye and altaria really hurt its Pontential in OU as was demonstrated post ORAS. It went from stalls lynchpin to non-existent. The Omnipresence of Dark spam does not help it either. Not to say its bad tho. It does however pair well with slowbro and fairies and can form neat duel ghost cores with the likes of Sab and Jellicent

This is what I would recommend for the current meta

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Head / Gyro Ball
- Toxic
- Protect / Rest
- Destiny Bond / Swords Dance

Stab is obvious. It lets it handily check fairy spam, Toxic takes advantage of no guard and prevents grounds setting up on it. Fromk there you have some choices. Protect also let it handle Lopunny better but rest combined with cleric support gives it much needed recovery. Finally Destiny Bond thanks to its bulk works meaning if nothing else it can take 1 mon with it tho Swords dance + stab can nail the few fairies bold enough to set up on it. This set plays best on Semi-Stall as it can benefit from the role condensation as well as enjoy cleric/Wish support but can work in some balance teams. I wouldn't recommend using it in full stall or Fast offensive teams tho as there usally better picks

 

[Martin]

I don't like DBond all that much on Doublade tbh because, unlike Wobbuffet (who could use it to eliminate 50:50s in the mid HP range to guarantee a kill or an Encore on the following turn if holding Sitrus/Colbur or if the next attack won't put it into Custap range or to take advantage of its low speed for 2 turns of protection and guarantee a kill or Encoreon the following turn if in Custap range), Doublade is really slow and can't really use its low speed to much benefit with it. Honestly the only set I'd personally run would be RestTalk with Iron Head and Toxic (although u can sub STalk for Tect if you really hate Lopunny) due to the fact that it just gets worn down otherwise and struggles to check what it's trying to check after two or three switch-ins.

Honestly the main problem with Doublade is that the big four fairies (Clef, Diancie, Altaria and Azu - not that it'd realistically try and take on the latter due to taking repeated Waterfalls/Koffs hurting a load) all have access to moves to deal with it that aren't called Hidden Power (Clef's Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Diancie's EPower, Alt's FBladt/Quake and Azu's Koff all bone it), and this causes problems in the long run. While 1v1ing Medi and Breloom is all well and good, it faces a lot of competition for a team slot that means it isn't often worth it. It really f*cking sucks that it can't avoid Fire Blast/Scrappy HJK as well.

Its not useless though. It is cool if your balance squad really struggles with MMedi and SD Breloom in addition to being able ot pivot through fairies (although the latter is pretty standard among steels). Its just that the stuff it was used to stop have all decreased in usage significantly barring, like, MegaVoir amd Medi, and as such it is hard to justify over other blanket checks or counters to yhese mons - namely MZor and Lando-T.