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Gen 2 Part 7??? Not really

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Borat, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. Borat

    Borat

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    809
    Dunno if you guys still remember me but, I use to write a lot of stuff about GSC. And I still have a lot sitting around so I'm going to post them in the next few weeks. This only really makes sense if you've seen my part 6(here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3447576). Cheers mate and enjoy.

    2004 original

    Background:

    This was a team I used dating back to early 2004 when I first devised growthvap, with a few updates. "Big" updates came in early 2007, then in early 2010. By following this pattern, the next update will come out sometime in 2013. This ended up being my most successful team without me even realizing it, despite my always putting it off for its first 6 years of inception as a second string team. Net me 100+ win streaks on old NB servers with the 2004 version, and with the update, was one of my most consistent offenses at taking down stalls. I preferred a more "stable" team, so I usually turned to the Raikou/Miltank/Skarm/Starmie stall, but it turns out, this was the most stable of all. While I don’t exactly have the authority (or do I?) to necessarily use the superlative “best team in GSC”, it’s definitely the most effective and flexible team in existence. Turned out to be the “best” team I’ve ever made, which should account for something. In fact, it’s overly effective and influential, to the point where I even have problems deviating too much from it when trying to create something new.

    Team-building process:

    Take this “process” with a grain of salt. I only have the final product, and a vague recollection of how it came to be. It’s mostly accurate though.

    Vaporeon
    [​IMG]

    Pretty straight forward, this was my favorite creation [and I LOVED creating “odd” sets at the time] and I was pretty damn eager to try it out on the competitive front. Keep in mind Vaporeon was a UU pokemon whose widely accepted standard set was Surf, Ice Beam, Haze, Rest. I was sure I wanted it to be a sweeper, and really the only moves I had to make a decision based on was Acid Armor vs Sleep Talk. Originally, I actually was leaning towards AA (and it found immense success early on as people were just stuck on what to do as my Vap outpaced their Curselax), because it beat curselaxes straight up, and curselaxes were pretty fucking popular. But after a few test runs, I found I needed a Sleep Talker status absorber thing. It wasn't until later on that I even notice Ice Beam, Roar, and Baton Pass were all legitimate options. To me, it was AA/ST or bust. But I was still miles ahead of anyone else at the time so whatever.

    Vaporeon Snorlax
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Again, straight forward. Ever since 2002, I've held the firm belief that no competitive OU GSC team should be without Snorlax. And since I'm really only interested in the highest level of play, Snorlax was a no brainer. Standard set at the time was BS/DE/Return, EQ/FB, Curse, Rest. After finding Vap in lieu of NYPC moves, I found out Snorlax learned LK (and Heracross learned S-toss, but that's another story), and wanted to make use of it right away. Last Poke-lax already had few counters, the best of which was probably just another Snorlax. Keep in mind, Growltanks didn't exist yet, and Sand Attack Skarms were pretty damn popular. LK gave me the natural advantage in this department.

    Vaporeon Snorlax Umbreon
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    So to solve the problem of a mono-attacking lax, I turned to the only [OU] pursuiter I knew (never liked Houndoom anyway). Plus, it countered other Snorlaxes anyway. Set I ran at the time was Pursuit, Charm, Moonlight, Toxic. It was semi-creative for its time.

    Vaporeon Snorlax Umbreon Exeggutor
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I already understood the concept of bait explosion at the time, and I figured I'd turn one of Exeggutor's biggest disadvantages into an advantage. Being weak to both of the legendary Electric-type's secondary attacks, in addition to Electrics being primarily used as Sleep Talkers at the time, Exeggutor was deemed a second-tier OU because it was "always" countered. However, I flipped that on its head and took advantage of that. Taking out electrics would be a big boost for me, so I was fully willing to being "dominated" by electrics, since they were playing right into my hands.

    Vaporeon Snorlax Umbreon Exeggutor Gengar
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    One of the two biggest threats to consider at the time were Druidcruel (Tenta) and Drumzard. They were considered universal threats, and some of the top sweepers and most used sweepers in OU GSC. Because everything on my team was slower than Charizard, I was naturally suseptible to a sweep at any time, with no way of recuperating. Gengar at least gave me second wind versus Charizard, and is a pretty good "semi-hard" counter to Tentacruel (will explain below) which otherwise got in free on Vap and just went to work on me.

    Vaporeon Snorlax Umbreon Exeggutor Gengar Skarmory
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Skarmory was the final, no-brainer pick. I needed a p-hazer, I needed a normal resist, I needed a Flying type, I needed something to stop initial Joltwak, and it didn't hurt that it was arguably the most popular Pokemon at the time to catch my attention. I ran Thief variant, in hopes of stealing Leftovers from an electric, to further support Vaporeon.

    Vaporeon Snorlax Tyranitar Exeggutor Gengar Forretress
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I ran into immediate problems. Umbreon + Skarmory paved way for a lot of offensive teams to run havoc against me, and Umbreon was doing a really poor job pursuiting Misdreavus, since Misdreavus survives Pursuits just fine. Furthermore, Skarmory stopped the one Pokemon I didn't have too much problem with anyway. Thus, I figured I'd nail two birds with one stone and replaced Umbreon and Skarmory with a Pursuit + Roar T-tar, which was unheard of at the time. This freed up a slot, and seeing Gengar, I figure I'd try to fit in a spiker. Forretress was far more popular than Cloyster at the time, so that was my natural choice. Plus, it offered plenty of support in the form of Spin + Explode + Reflect on the same set, something Cloyster couldn't do. Plus, I figured, I had a water type anyway. Forretress also helped a bit with covering the newly found EQ curselax weak (keep in mind this was 2004, people saw it do 8% or whatever behind Reflect, and just switched out).



    [​IMG]

    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    - Explosion
    - Rapid Spin
    - Reflect
    - Spikes




    [​IMG]

    Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
    - Explosion
    - Ice Punch
    - Mean Look
    - Thunderbolt




    [​IMG]

    Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
    - Curse
    - Double-Edge
    - Lovely Kiss
    - Rest



    [​IMG]

    Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
    - Curse
    - Pursuit
    - Roar
    - Rock Slide




    [​IMG]

    Vaporeon (F) @ Leftovers
    - Growth
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Surf




    [​IMG]

    Exeggutor (M) @ Leftovers
    - Explosion
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psychic
    - Stun Spore


    Summary:
    This was the era where skarmbliss peaked in popularity, and players that have faced me (or my vap) recently damn well know Blissey does not stop Vaporeon at all. Basically, this team revolved around two sets that didn't exist at the time: LK Lax and Growth vap. Maybe it was the fact that NYPC moves was still constantly the topic of debate in organized play, but regardless, these were non-existent sets. LK lax were used by a few, but as far as I could tell, no one even gave vap a second look at the time. Idea was pretty simple, bait-explode electrics with Gengar/Egg to set up Vap. If that wasn't an option, pursuit ghosts to set up Snorlax. It was simpler times.

    This net me quite a few 100+ winstreaks on NB's old Battledome, and it was wreckless to Tafop/Blue Heaven players as well. Vap won probably over 50% of games flat-out, and it was ridiculous how people consistently fell for the same strategy over and over and over again.

    Forretress, ironically, was on there because it complimented Gengar's ability to wall Rapid Spin, and not vice-versa. Gengar was a far better spin block back then, since there were far more non-Psychic Starmies back then (Reflect was pretty damn popular because Forretress was more popular, as well as Thunderwave). Mean Look + Explosion Gengar was awesome for catching Raikous, and occassionally let me trap Blisseys an stuff for a guaranteed Explosion. However, Gengar's biggest role, and the main reason for Mean Look, was the ability to catch Tentacruels (which were OU-OU) that got in free on my Vap. They'll usually hit you behind sub, and that's where ML comes in. Gengar survives 2 Hydro Pumps handily, allowing it to Mean Look, Tbolt the sub, then Explode for the kill.

    HP Fire on Exeggutor was largely there to scare Skarmorys, which were MORE popular than they are today, if you can believe it. It was arguably MORE popular than Snorlax (probably because people didn't know better at the time though). However, Umbreon was also more popular as well, so Egg's role is largely just Explosions. Tyranitars at the time rarely ran Pursuit, so not hitting those wasn't a big deal. Curse/RS/Roar/Rest was the common set, followed by EQ/Crunch over Rest. Screech was a popular option as well. Occasionally there would be a four attack mixed sweeper or something, but Pursuit was largely forgotten.

    Vaporeon anchors this team hardcore, offensively and defensively. Jynx was on the upper end of BLs, Charizard was still frequenting OU, Vap played a pretty big role just holding down the fort. My work was really made easy because people really underestimated Vap, sending in generic walls thinking my vap was a non-factor offensively, only to have me set up on their Starmie/Blissey.

    EDIT: Ugh, proof of this being old. All the links are dead.
    totoTavros likes this.
  2. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,258
    Bringing this thread back from the dead because I was bored and decided to start reading it again and thought of this question:

    You used Mean Look to trap DruidCruels that had set up a sub. However ML doesn't appear to work on Sub'd opponents. Was this a sim bug, or are PO and Smogon wrong in thinking that ML is unable to trap Sub'd opponents in GSC?
  3. Xeze

    Xeze

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    58
    Mean Look works on Pokémons with a Sub up. I tested it on the Game Boy games. So what's written on Smogon about it not working on a Substitute is wrong.
  4. .Maguss.

    .Maguss.

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    210
    Yes. Substitute does not prevent Mean Look. It is a PO bug.
  5. Kavatika

    Kavatika is wary

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    596
    I know this thread is old as fuck, but this thread is full of so much good information, it's worth the time to read
    totoTavros and ROFLz like this.

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