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Pikach-Chooses You!

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Governess, Jan 11, 2013.

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How useful has Pikachu been to you in NU battles?

  1. Amazing. I love Pikachu, I use it a lot, it gets the job done.

    18.9%
  2. Meh; it's ok... I might use it from time to time.

    31.5%
  3. Never, ever, ever. I dislike Pikachu's stats, nothing personal, but I would never use it

    49.6%
  1. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    PIKACKU
    [​IMG]
    Electric
    35 / 55 / 30 / 50 / 40 / 90

    If you have watched the anime for Pokemon, you would quickly realize that Pikachu is assumed to be this kicka$$ Pokemon who can defy the odds, and use Thundershock on ground types, and battle dragons with no fear. Well, open your eyes to the metagame, and you see that Pikachu is just your average joe. Nothing too super fantastic, nothing to O-M-G, just normal.​
    The thing that makes Pikachu viable to battle with, however, is the Light Ball, which raises Pikachu's Special Attack to astonishing heights. That item alone is what makes Pokemon Lovers like you and me want to use Pikachu, other than its adorable, gullible face.​

    Abilities:
    • Static
    • Lightningrod (DW Ability)

    Viable Moves:
    • Brick Break
    • Encore
    • ExtremeSpeed
    • Grass Knot
    • Substitute
    • Thunderbolt
    • Volt Switch
    • Volt Tackle

    Is there any justice to this mouse besides the Light Ball? Honestly, is it a good Pokemon for NU, and does it live up to its fellow electric types? Is Pikachu worth using; who dies it work well with? Is there any good sets? GOGOGO: Express yourselves below.
  2. FLCL

    FLCL
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    [​IMG]
    Pikachu @ Light Ball
    Trait: Lightningrod
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Grass Knot
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Substitute

    I don't really use Pikachu but this set right here is probably it's best set. Come in on something like a Choice Scarf Rotom-S Volt Switch (beware of Air Slash, it will 2HKO) and set up a Substitute. Ground-types that attempt to switch in will be destroyed by Grass Knot or Hidden Power [Ice] while Thunderbolt hits everything else extremely hard, especially with a boost. Pikachu has a nice speed stat that allows it to outrun a lot of stuff in the tier, but any hit will practically bring it down. Don't even bother with a physical set since it leaves you walled by pretty much every Ground and Physically Defensive Grass type.
  3. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~
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    I chose the option that said I would never use Pikachu. Sure Pikachu has good attack stats and a pretty nice base Speed stat, but it provides little to none defensive synergy with the rest of your team due to its insane frailness. Other frail mons such as Haunter or Kadabra have either useful immunities or a great ability, respectively. (They both have higher base speeds as well.) Even offensively Pikachu gets picked off by faster threats such as Tauros or Haunter and a lot of bulky pokemon such as Regirock, Lickilicky, or Regice can all tank a hit. Volt Tackle coupled with Pikachu's low HP stat is essentially suicide after two attacks. Priority from the likes of Gurdurr or Carracosta can all nearly knock Pikachu out. Other high usage Electric-types such as Rotom-S, Electabuzz, or Eelektross all have decent bulk and can make use of items such Leftovers or Choice Scarf. Overall, Pikachu is a decent mon, but I would never take Pikachu into consideration when building a team.

    BAN STATIC
  4. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
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    Interesting.. It's amazing how everyone has such a different point of view on things. I know, sounds boring and 'everyone knows it', but things like that fascinate me, how our brains work. Anyways, keep sharing opinions on this little ball that has somehow shaped Pokemon! <3
  5. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    I agree with Annoyer in that Pikachu is a Pokemon that I definitely would not use. Even though it does have that great base 90 Speed stat and pretty good Special Attack with the Light Ball, its inability to hold any other item and having extremely paper thin defenses make it less than a desirable Pokemon. Extremely paper thin defenses barely begins to describe truly how bad Pikachu is at taking hits as it's OHKOed by Life Orb Carracosta's Aqua Jet and even SubBU Braviary's (0 Atk Evs) Brave Bird. Even with being able to avoid Sucker Punch with Substitute, Pikachu has to be extremely alert against any Pokemon with priority or even Scarf users, as any hit it takes could possibly take it down in one swoop. Lightningrod gives it an nice Electric-type immunity and Special Attack boost when hit by Electric-type moves but Pikachu will still find it hard to switch into anything. (Like FLCL said, Scarf Rotom-S 2HKOes with Air Slash)

    The Light Ball boost is nice, but Pikachu's damage output is not far off from Eelektross or Ampharos, who both have better coverage moves. Pikachu is indeed a lot faster than those two, but their perks in their bulk, better coverage, and Eelektross's Levitate can somewhat overshadow that. While base 90 Speed is good Pikachu cannot be used as a revenge killer due to its inability to hold any item other than Light Ball without being totally useless. While Pikachu is not the worst choice in terms of an Electric-type Pokemon, it is far from being good.
  6. Nyara

    Nyara

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    I think it's ok, not great, but not that bad, either.

    A mixed set with Volt Tackle, Grass Knot, and Hidden Power Ice works pretty well, actually, the problem is Pikachu's horrible HP, so, it will be just unnable to K.O too many things, but taking in account physical Pikachu tends to lure Ground Type Pokémon, then Pikachu can give them a (huge) surprise with Grass Knot, I recomend to spend some on Spa if this is tryed, you'll need most probably the extra punch on Grass Knot and specially Hidden Power Ice.

    A Rain Dance set with someone else setting Rain is a pretty usable set, too, using Thunder on place of Thunderbolt gives Pikachu the extra punch that it needs to OHKO more things, and it do have good sinergy with the Rain Dance users because Pikachu can absorb the Electric Attacks that they tend to lure, and Pikachu makes a good offensive sinergy, too.

    Finally, it's speed is decent enough to being able to revenge kill a good number of threats on the current metagame, too. The set of FLCL is maybe the best (and unique) if you don't want to use surprise factor (Mixed) or need to support (Rain), anyway. He can stop Volt Switchers on it's rides, too, by just switichg-in when they try to flee, and K.O them.

    My problem with Pikachu is it's problem to handle priority users, that's a really bad problem taking the account how common are those moves, at least Pikachu can avoid with the proper prediction a Sucker Punch, something is something.

    Nasty Plot Pikachu by other hand is wrong on so many levels... it's problem is it is just unnable to handle priority or scarfers, or actually, any faster Pokémon at all, so, Pikachu will be dead weight unless you (with huge team support) are able to destroy all it's checks, and even then, Pikachu have tiny paper defenses, so, you will need to bring him with a safe switch, somehow.

    Thunderbolt/Thunder Spam alone is greatly outclassed by Raichu, who can use Choice Specs and surpass the power of Pikachu, and winning extra bulk, extra speed, and even the option of run some extra bulk for it's special sponge use. Encore Pikachu is also outclassed by Raichu who had higher speed and bulk, and can actually setup Nasty Plot and survive priority attacks, so, Pikachu is better just using it's Mixed/Standar sets the most of the time.

    Any Pikachu sets need support to taking care of priority users (incluiding some Sucker Punchers), and Pikachu should be always stay far from them, so, if you can't eliminate them on mid. game, you'll need a decent defensive core who can take use of Pikachu's inmunnity to electric if possible. Pikachu also enjoy a Parashuffler, because them spread paralize and damage across the opponent's team, and Pikachu needs the extra damage to actually K.O important things, and it loves the paralize because Pikachu will just not be outspeeded without priority, and you can be saved the 25% of times, too.

    A Pikachu set with 252 HP and 252 Spa is decent, too, depending of what you're interesed on outspeed with Pikachu, but it usually just work with the help of Parashuffling, it's still a good set to use because Pikachu will be able to survive almost any priority attack, and that's just enough to wreak havoc against one of it's "checks/counters". Encore can replace Substitute with this EV spread if you think you can make some use of it. Ampharos usually outclass this, but Pikachu does have Grass Knot, surprise factor, and can outspeed without investment more things.
  7. Tyrano

    Tyrano

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    I choose never use it. The set FLCL posted is the best set to me (maybe ExtremeSpeed instead of Subs), but as he said, it's hard to find a safe switch in. Rotom-f is an option, but is usually uses Volt Switch, so you have to be lucky switching in because if it uses Air Slash you are KO in 2 hits (that says too much, 2HKOed by a move it resists...).

    Linoone is a similar case to me, both can be powerful, but both are difficult to use because of their defenses. They are a risky option, if you get them to work it's great, but if you don't, you have an useless pokemon, and I think that last option is the most probable.
  8. Aasgier

    Aasgier

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    Well, Pika is usable, though you really need something to lure in electric attacks so you can bring it in safely. I did consider using it at a point though.

    It is frail as hell, but it does survive a poke left and right, and it has more power than many other fast threats, and considering how often something gets OHKO'd, even things which are supposed to have a lot of bulk, Pika's lack of bulk isn't as bad as it sounds. And things which can survive hits, can't KO Pika because they have zero attacking capabilities in most cases.

    Pikachu however, does not like that E-speed lacks the power Pika wants it to have, and the same goes for Brick Break, whereas Volt Tackle has that huge recoil. If Volt Tackle did not have that recoil, I think that would have given me the push to use it.
  9. The Quasar

    The Quasar

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    I voted the third option (Never, ever....). I'm playing NU for very short time, but I see it few times (I've just checked in NU stats too) and i don't remember specific problems with it. Good SPe certainly is not decisive and even balance too few HP, so it's not so difficult to bring it down. Perhaps who wants to use a pokemon for the same purposes, usually chooses Eelektross.
  10. A Novel Idea

    A Novel Idea

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    Anytime I see a Pikachu or Raichu on a team, I'm definitely going to shy away from electric attacks until it's down, and opt for regular switching over Volt Switching. I think it's the same way with everyone else. In fact, Pikachu's vulnerable to getting Tricked by Rotom-Fan (or Air Slashed, as FLCL mentioned) when it brazenly comes in expecting a Tbolt or Volt Switch. Then it's a really weak revenge killer for the rest of the match.

    In fact, Lightning Rod is like a monkey's paw for the poor guy. People start thinking he can switch into this or that and they're down a Pokemon.

    Also, if it had 10 more base speed, I'd use it. Or when Light Ball takes on Eviolite-like properties in addition to the properties it already has. Or I'll just use Emolga.
  11. cbt

    cbt voodoo mon amour
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    pikachu is a mon with a lot of power (light ball gives it uber level attacking stats), but is let down by nasty defenses. i would only use it if i was not playing seriously (i obv voted option 3). it never lives any remotely powerful neutral attack, being ohkoed by non stab moves from powerful mons. it does however have lightningrod, which gives it something it can switch into (something which is very difficult to do with pikachu) pikachu is outclassed by other electrics such as ampharos, rotom-s, and electabuzz, all of which don't rely on an item and have manageable defenses to boot.
  12. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
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    I am swaying both ways for Pikachu,hence why I voted for the middle..

    Pikachu @ Light Ball has great power, along with Nasty Plot, but it's fragile stats is its downfall. It just isn't good to use when it's all coming down to the wire, and I don't think any other item would work with it.
    Though, it can be used with the proper support, but I don't think it's really worth the chances and the work.

    It's a good Pokemon, but meh. Could be better.
    Have any of you used Pikachu on your NU team before? How did it go?
  13. citro

    citro

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    [​IMG]

    Pikachu @ Light Ball
    Trait: Static
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Extremespeed
    - Volt Switch
    - Grass Knot

    This set is a little weird and not seen as much for that reason, but it's very unexpected and the surprise factor helps you out in a lot of games. The combination of Fake Out and Extremespeed catches a lot of people off guard with its double priority abuse. It has excellent utility in revenge killing rampaging sweepers like Sawsbuck and Zangoose, especially with Extremespeed ignoring other forms of priority. Unfortunately, Volt Tackle is illegal with the moves on this set, so you have to go mixed - however, this isn't a bad thing, as with just a few Special Attack EVs Pikachu can still beat bulky Rock and Ground types like Golem and Golurk with Grass Knot, provided there's some prior damage. Volt Switch is generally the preferred fourth move as scouting is such a safe option in BW2; once they know your set, you can just pivot out of the oncoming Regirock or Vileplume and bring in something to exploit it like Samurott or Braviary, respectively. I imagine Thunderbolt nails a couple of extra KOs, but it usually isn't worth it. As I mentioned before, residual damage is vital for this Pikachu to work, his defenses mean he can't even take one hit in a clutch situation, so it's all-or-nothing. Obviously playing with Pikachu is a gamble in itself, but this is another fun way to use him and it's worth a shot.
  14. Nyara

    Nyara

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    Wow, I liked your set, Citro! I'll test it later, but I thing I'll fix a bit the EV spread to have more special attack, with double priority I'm not seen Pikachu of the need of that number of speed, so, I think he'll be OK with more special attack and less speed (according to the threats you want to outspeed with Volt Switch, of course), another possibility is just 252 EV of HP, Pikachu resisting an attack is a surprise itself, and you have then a double surprise combo.
  15. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    I'm actually a fan of Pikachu (shocking!!). It gets a bad rep for no real reason, its actually a really cute and potent sweeper, when used right of course.

    When I ladder, a well played Pikachu is actually something that can sweep my quite often. Lightningrod is an absolutely amazing ability in NU. Seriously. Electric-type attacks are being thrown around left and right from common Scarfers like Rotom-S, Ebuzz, even Zebstrika. Catching one on a Volt Switch and firing off your own Thunderbolts isnt that hard. Though Pikachu is so frail that even resisted coverage moves can 2HKO, so you have to be careful. That being sad, even the threat of Pikachu is enough to make Volt Switch a risky move. If they hit you with it, you now have a +1 Pikachu with a free turn to do whatever you want. Very dangerous, a situation no battler wants to be up against.

    The Pikachu I find most threatening is Sub / Tbolt / HP Ice / Encore. It has pretty amazing coverage there, realistically only Piloswine and champion Chinchou dont feel threatened at all, no other resists want to take a thunderbolt. You'll rarely get more than one chance to sweep with Pikachu in a match, so you really have to make the best of it. Even if you cant switch in, Pika isn't slow, it can revenge kill something, base 90 (iirc) is actually quite good in this metagame. Just revenge kill a Braviary!!! :>


    also its just so cute, how can you not love it??
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  16. The Quasar

    The Quasar

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    Your set is very interesting, Citro. Hovever, i think (and always you have to consider my thoughts as to who plays only short time) this small reasoning: if Light Ball have to works you have to invest your EVs in SpA (and/or Atk). But Pikachu needs to have all the speed it can get. If we think that we are always review both physical (Extremespeed, Fake Out) and special attacks (Volt Switch and Grass Knot), Will you can split EVs between SpA and Atk? Perhaps it's too hard to build something strong enough. Raseri's set (that's the same in Smogon's pokedex) it's IMHO more dangerous because it was building from awareness of Pikachu's weakness.
  17. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
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    As to date,it seems the majority of the users in NU would perfer not to use Pikachu, which is understandable. The other choices are neck in neck; sort of what I was expecting. IMO, I wouldn't use Pikachu unless it had maximum coverage and such; it can't stand alone very well.
  18. SapphSabre777

    SapphSabre777

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    Exactly. Pikachu is rather lack-luster in terms of sweeping potential imo. The sole reasons are those stats it has. Warning: rather lengthy synopsis...

    Speed
    Sure, 90 Speed is definitely above par in terms of the NU tier; however, it is sort of a double-edged sword. Since Pikachu almost REQUIRES the Light Ball to even do well, it can be easily outsped by Scarfed Pokemon. Gardevoir, Sawk, and Braviary are some examples of Pokemon that can outspeed Pikachu when Scarfed.

    Offense
    This is the reason why Pikachu is even used. With the Light Ball from Gen. II, Pikachu's offenses are doubled. Under a Timid/Jolly nature, this puts the mouse's offenses through the roof: at the high 300s if a 252/252+ spread is used. However...the list of viable moves it can use is quite frustrating, especially when it is purely physical. The moves just don't allow Pikachu to outright sweep most teams.

    Defense
    And this is why Pikachu is not used. Frailty. Pikachu has rather abysmal defenses (35/30/40), which allows other Pokemon from within the tier to easily revenge-kill the mouse. Priority is the worst thing for Pikachu, since it will take a lot of damage from priority moves (especially STABed).

    And that is my analysis...not that it matters...
  19. Menace13

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    I prefer Raichu due to the bulk it gains, even if Light Ball would leave Pikachu at higher attack. Raichu does keep ExtremeSpeed from Pikachu, so this set can be used:

    Raichu (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Static
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Wild Charge
    - Brick Break

    Works especially well if Baton Pass'd a Speed or Attack boost.

    However, since Pikachu has higher attack and no lack of speed, the same type of build would work with him:

    Pikachu (M) @ Light Orb
    Trait: Static
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Wild Charge
    - Brick Break

    It's the same thing, but MUCH more reliant on Speed and Attack boosts and...well...unlike Raichu this little guy can't take a hit. That's why I prefer Raichu to Pikachu.

    ExtremeSpeed is an event-only move. Pikachu cannot have it and Fake Out on the same set, as last I knew Fake Out is only an egg move and it does not come on ExtremeSpeed Pikachu. I thought about using that combination a while ago but I realized it just didn't work because ExtremeSpeed was event-only. If it worked, Pikachu and Raichu would be MUCH more deadly.
  20. LivingRhino

    LivingRhino

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    The reason I never use Pikachu is that there are better pokes to use in the current metagame, such as Zebstrika, Electabuzz etc. The set citro posted was quite captivating, as I've never seen or heard of this set before. Pikachu is a bit unreliable when it comes to defenses, and although it can damage most pokémon, it can be countered by almost everything thanks to its pathetic defenses.

    I mostly use electric scarfers, which is why my opinion on Pikachu is not entirely truthful. Raichu is the better option for me, but that doesn't make it so that Pikachu is bad for every player. I just prefer not to use it, as it's kind of useless. I will be trying citro's set soon though, as I'm intrigued by it.
  21. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
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    There has been debate on whether to use Raichu or Pikachu, but each one has it's pros/cons, depends on the players. I just realized, I forgot to set a time limit to the poll.. LOL x3 It'll go on forever it seems..
  22. Laga

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    To everyone who said that they would never use a pikachu ever. I must tell you that not only does it work in NU, but also in ubers. just saying. Its attacking stats hit 458 and 436 respectively with light ball. To make a comparison here are some top threats attacking stats maxed out:

    -Genesect hits a maximum of 372 in both attacking stats (depending on investment)

    -Terrakion hits a maximum of 392 attack (adamant and max Atk)

    -Tornadus-t hits a maximum of 350 SpA or 328 Atk (depending on investment)

    -Excadrill hits a maximum of 405 Atk (adamant and max Atk)

    -Thundurus hits a maximum of 383 SpA (modest and max SpA)

    If pikachu's speed was base 91, it would work extremely well in ubers. outspeeding kyogre, groudon, reshiram, zekrom, ho-oh, lugia etc. at the moment it only speed ties with those. BUT most of them dont run max speed :) just trying to show you guys how awesome its attacking stats really are :3

    Besides, its extremely cute ^.^ [​IMG]
  23. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
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    O,O;; Wow. Thats big. I must make a NU team with Pikachu now.

    And awwww <33 It is really cute. Pachirisu vs Pikachu for cuteness FTFW >:D
  24. skylight

    skylight cuz you're a sky full of stars ☆
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    While that may be true (and is somewhat theorymoning the latter...?) it's still the NU section and most of those comparisons are somewhat irrelevant, given that the thread is about discussing how effective it actually is in NU - in which it is somewhat outclassed down here. :x

    Anyway from what I've seen (although I haven't used it) it appears that it can be quite strong buuut other electric mons are just more useful - there's just generally no reason to use it over the other electric mons for the purposes I use them for (meaning I only really use Zebstrika and Eel is bulky enough to take a few hits and do some good damage) while Pikachu misses out on that. I wouldn't say I wouldn't use it at all but... there's just really no place for it to fit on my teams. It is cute tho.
  25. Aasgier

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    Pikachu is the definition of the glass cannon. It is a poor-mans version of Deoxys(-A), basically.

    Maybe next generation is generous to Pikachu. Removing recoil from Volt Tackle and making Extremespeed a level-up move would do a lot for the little rat already. Flame Charge would also be helpful.

    @Starships: Except that Zebstrika can't take a hit either. When I see Zebstrika, I see it getting OHKO'd. Eelektross is very good though, physically it hits just as hard as Pikachu does, but it has so much more bulk and an insane movepool, something Pikachu would kill for, but Eelektross would kill for Pikachu's speed. But if Eelektross was in Pikachu's speed tier, it would be OU.

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