Platinum Illegal Movesets Workshop

Discussion in 'Archives' started by RBG, Sep 22, 2008.

  1. RBG

    RBG It feels like a perfect night to dress up like hipsters
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    OK, question:

    What happens when you use memento and there is no target? What you could do is get in an ingame double battle with trainers with more than 3 pokes:

    Turn 1:

    Poke A use Explosion!
    Enemy Pokemon Faint!
    Spirtomb is unharmed!
    Spirtomb uses Memento! (what happens here?)

    Smeargle is switched in
    Enemy sends out new pokemon!
    Smergle uses sketch on Spirtomb
  2. SwinubToupée

    SwinubToupée

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    I'd expect Sleep Talk, Assist, Copycat and Me First to be sketched in the same way but admittedly I've only tested sketching Metronome myself.
  3. Wild Eep

    Wild Eep pet pet pet
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    Memento will fail (and the user will survive) if there's no target, but I screwed up the rest of the test, so I don't have definitive results. (Now I do)

    EDIT:

    Go! Metagross!
    Go! Misdreavus!

    Metagross used Explosion!
    The bad guys and Metagross fainted!
    Misdreavus was unharmed!
    Misdreavus used Memento!
    But there was no target...

    Replacement bad guy gets sent in!
    Go, Smeargle!
    Smeargle used Sketch on Misdreavus!
    Smeargle Memento get!

    Good work, RB Golbat!

    I'd like to stress that Smeargle NEEDS to be faster than the Memento user. This wasn't the case for my first try where my Misdreavus gained 10 levels and messed up the test.
  4. SwinubToupée

    SwinubToupée

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    Great, so no worries about Memento and Technician!

    I completed the Nightmare tutor check on the previous page. The families seen to be missing Nightmare were Clefairy's, Meowth's, Dunsparce's, Shedinja's, and Roselia's. Everybody else incorporated Nightmare or didn't need to (Gengar and Hypno, basically).
  5. RBG

    RBG It feels like a perfect night to dress up like hipsters
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    Fixed all of my mistakes (which were all except Clefairy)
  6. SwinubToupée

    SwinubToupée

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    Self Destruct Check

    Continuing with Check #4: Selfdestruct XD Tutor.

    Done!

    Apparently we didn't miss any Selfdestruct tutor opportunities. Well done, everyone!
  7. Wild Eep

    Wild Eep pet pet pet
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    Check #5

    Meowth line is missing Petal Dance.

    EDIT 1: Bellsprout line is missing Teeter Dance.
    EDIT 1.5: For the Cacnea line, Acid + Teeter Dance should be legal because of Teeter Dance Bellsprout.

    EDIT 2: I believe Pinsir needs Mold Breaker + Helping Hand added to its list.

    EDIT 3: For Mew, Teleport + Metronome should be legal since it gets Metronome via level-up. And it's on to Generation II.

    EDIT 4: Well into Gen 3, I added False Swipe + Heal Bell to Altaria's list.

    DONE
  8. SwinubToupée

    SwinubToupée

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    That's a good catch. I removed "Acid + Teeter Dance" and added "Acid + Teeter Dance + Magical Leaf".
  9. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    You may want to check some of the other moves, I know its not exactly illegal combinations but.. At least one Pokemon gets a move it should never be able to get (Onix can't get Crunch according to Smogon, Bulbapidia and Serebii but gets it on Shoddy). And we found it by pure chance.
  10. Wild Eep

    Wild Eep pet pet pet
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    The Meowth line is able to learn Spite via Platinum move tutor, so these combinations should be obtainable.

    Test #6:

    Charmander: The Event Guide indicates that Howl + Quick Atttack Charmander can only be male. Is there a way for Shoddy to support this?

    Everything else was either good to begin with or already covered in #5.

    DONE
  11. Wild Eep

    Wild Eep pet pet pet
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    Test #8
    The list of critters with no illegal combinations on the first page looks pretty good. Most genderless + legends + 4th gen Grounds don't have the Egg move or event move incompatibility issues that pretty much everything else has.

    I only hope Sleep Talk, Assist, and Mirror Move can be Sketched the same way as Metronome in D/P.
  12. Wild Eep

    Wild Eep pet pet pet
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    Test #10

    Previous Shoddy illegal combos:

    (Bold lines have been or need to be changed)

    Gible line: All set

    Gastly line:
    Astonish + Perish Song is incorrect. Misdreavus can pass both moves without any problem.
    Astonish + Grudge + Haze is correct, and I missed it. Koffing provides Grudge and Haze in the 4th gen only, so Grudge + Haze + 3rd gen-only tutors have been added. Argh.

    Chansey line:
    Helping Hand combos listed are no longer illegal thanks to Platinum. Gravity + Present on the Shoddy list is incorrect, as is Heal Bell + Present.

    Larvitar line: The new list looks OK. The combos involving Iron Defense on Larvitar are tricky as they require a Pupitar father that already knows other Egg Moves. Nightmare combinations listed for Larvitar and Pupitar are incorrect as only Tyranitar learns it.

    Bagon line: I removed all instances of Double-Edge from the list. It's a level-up move! >_<

    Sneasel line: Good

    Mudkip line: Also good

    Gligar line: Scyther learning Feint took away a lot of the combos covered there. This one looks all set.

    Skarmory: Good

    Azumarill: Good

    Snorlax: Good

    Zubat line: This seems to need Nasty Plot + Brave Bird added to our list.

    Roselia line: Good

    DONE
  13. RBG

    RBG It feels like a perfect night to dress up like hipsters
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    OK! Good Job everyone! Now all thats left is for me to put this into a document and send it to Doug.

    Unsticky requested.
  14. Wild Eep

    Wild Eep pet pet pet
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    From the Department of Redundancy Department, I just noticed that the Zubat line has both Curse + Nasty Plot and Nasty Plot + Curse listed.
  15. Shinryu

    Shinryu

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    Wait, so Belly Drum + Aqua Jet on Azumarril is legal now? Or am I mis-reading how the lists are formatted? Please be legal...
  16. RBG

    RBG It feels like a perfect night to dress up like hipsters
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    If its on the list, then it is illegal. ~Belly Drum + Aqua Jet, is on the list, so it is illegal.
  17. Shinryu

    Shinryu

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    Meh, ok, re-checked the list, it's buried in there (I thought it was all alphabetical, didn't see it buried). Meh...
  18. SwinubToupée

    SwinubToupée

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    Snover and Abomasnow receive Mist as a level up move so it shouldn't be illegal with anything. These species have no illegal movesets (Tropius covers every egg move that isn't also learned through tutoring or leveling up.)

    EDIT: There are a few more overlooked problems in Garchomp's family.

    Twister is a Platinum tutor move for the Garchomp family and is legal with anything. The following sets should be added to all three Pokémon:
    Code:
    ~Metal Claw + Thrash + Double-edge,
    ~Metal Claw + Thrash + Body Slam;
    Feraligatr supplies the Garchomp family with the "Metal Claw + Thrash" combination but only receives Metal Claw as a fourth generation egg move. As a result Feraligatr can't pass the combo at the same time as its third gen tutor moves.

    EDIT 2: Turtwig's family has several small troubles. Rather than go line-by-line I'll give the whole set after corrections:
    Code:
    Turtwig:
    ~Worry Seed + Sand Tomb,
    ~Worry Seed + Thrash,
    ~Growth + Sand Tomb,
    ~Growth + Thrash,
    ~Tickle + Sand Tomb,
    ~Tickle + Thrash,
    ~Sand Tomb + Amnesia,
    ~Worry Seed + Tickle + Body Slam,
    ~Worry Seed + Tickle + Double-edge,
    ~Worry Seed + Tickle + Amnesia,
    ~Worry Seed + Body Slam + Amnesia;
    
    Grotle:
    ~Worry Seed + Sand Tomb,
    ~Worry Seed + Thrash,
    ~Growth + Sand Tomb,
    ~Growth + Thrash,
    ~Tickle + Sand Tomb,
    ~Tickle + Thrash,
    ~Sand Tomb + Amnesia,
    ~Worry Seed + Tickle + Body Slam,
    ~Worry Seed + Tickle + Double-edge,
    ~Worry Seed + Tickle + Amnesia,
    ~Worry Seed + Body Slam + Amnesia;
    
    Torterra:
    ~Worry Seed + Sand Tomb,
    ~Worry Seed + Thrash,
    ~Growth + Sand Tomb,
    ~Growth + Thrash,
    ~Tickle + Sand Tomb,
    ~Tickle + Thrash,
    ~Sand Tomb + Amnesia,
    ~Worry Seed + Tickle + Body Slam,
    ~Worry Seed + Tickle + Double-edge,
    ~Worry Seed + Tickle + Amnesia,
    ~Worry Seed + Body Slam + Amnesia;
    The problems mostly revolved around missed Platinum opportunities (including tutoring Torterra and then breeding that Torterra to make Superpower Turtwigs), breeding with Nidoking, and Venusaur having Body Slam as a third gen tutor move and Amnesia as a fourth gen egg move.

    EDIT 3: I believe Cherubi and Cherrim should each have the following addition:
    Code:
    ~Tickle + Nature Power + Aromatherapy;
    Meganium, Tangela, and Vileplume provide these two at a time but there doesn't seem to be a way to get all three together.

    EDIT 4: Previously Munchlax and Snorlax had "Double-edge + Whirlwind" as an illegal set. It should have been "Curse + Double-edge + Whirlwind". I've corrected the original post.

    EDIT 5:
    I was surprised to see that "Whirlwind + Hammer Arm" was not listed as an illegal combination. I'm not sure how to breed for that if it is indeed legal. Altogether the following sets seem to be missing from these two Pokémon:
    Code:
    ~Whirlwind + Hammer Arm,
    ~Crunch + Slam + Stomp,
    ~Crunch + Slam + Whirlwind,
    ~Crunch + Slam + Hammer Arm,
    ~Crunch + Stomp + Whirlwind,
    ~Double-edge + Slam + Hammer Arm;
    EDIT 6:
    These Pokémon are missing the following three-move combinations:
    Code:
    ~Headbutt + Scary Face + Body Slam,
    ~Headbutt + Scary Face + Curse;
    EDIT 7: All three members of the Starly line are missing the following illegal movesets:
    Code:
    ~Featherdance + Fury Attack + Pursuit + Sand-attack,
    ~Featherdance + Fury Attack + Pursuit + Double-edge,
    ~Featherdance + Fury Attack + Astonish + Double-edge;
    Any three moves from each of these sets would be legal.

    EDIT 8: The Aipom family failed to take into account the availability of Defense Curl from the Emerald tutor. Unfortunately the addition of another move that Ambipom can only obtain from its prevo generates a substantial number of new illegal movesets. I've corrected the original post but I'd be happy to compile it and the rest of these corrections into one list if that's easier.

    EDIT 9:
    Cleffa can use TM58 to learn Endure. It also seems that the Nightmare corrections submitted last week were not implemented (a PM was sent). Were those changes applied to the compiled list?

    EDIT 10: The Pikachu family needs a few revisions. Missing information includes Pichu's two relevant event moves, Pichu having Thunderpunch only as a fourth gen egg move while its evolutions can tutor it, Pikachu having a third gen tutor that Pichu does not, and Surfchu losing access to more than just Nasty Plot as a consequence of circumventing Pichu. Here's the whole family after sorting all of that out:
    Code:
    Pichu:
    ~Teeter Dance + Follow Me,
    ~Teeter Dance + Reversal,
    ~Teeter Dance + Bide,
    ~Teeter Dance + Present,
    ~Teeter Dance + Encore,
    ~Teeter Dance + Doubleslap,
    ~Teeter Dance + Wish,
    ~Teeter Dance + Charge,
    ~Teeter Dance + Volt Tackle,
    ~Teeter Dance + Fake Out,
    ~Teeter Dance + Thunderpunch,
    ~Teeter Dance + Tickle,
    ~Follow Me + Reversal,
    ~Follow Me + Bide,
    ~Follow Me + Present,
    ~Follow Me + Encore,
    ~Follow Me + Doubleslap,
    ~Follow Me + Wish,
    ~Follow Me + Charge,
    ~Follow Me + Volt Tackle,
    ~Follow Me + Fake Out,
    ~Follow Me + Thunderpunch,
    ~Follow Me + Tickle,
    ~Fake Out + Mega Punch,
    ~Fake Out + Mega Kick,
    ~Fake Out + Body Slam,
    ~Fake Out + Double-edge,
    ~Fake Out + Counter,
    ~Fake Out + Seismic Toss,
    ~Fake Out + Mimic,
    ~Fake Out + Defense Curl,
    ~Thunderpunch + Mega Punch,
    ~Thunderpunch + Mega Kick,
    ~Thunderpunch + Body Slam,
    ~Thunderpunch + Double-edge,
    ~Thunderpunch + Counter,
    ~Thunderpunch + Seismic Toss,
    ~Thunderpunch + Mimic,
    ~Thunderpunch + Defense Curl,
    ~Tickle + Mega Punch,
    ~Tickle + Mega Kick,
    ~Tickle + Body Slam,
    ~Tickle + Double-edge,
    ~Tickle + Counter,
    ~Tickle + Seismic Toss,
    ~Tickle + Mimic,
    ~Tickle + Defense Curl;
    
    Pikachu:
    ~Surf + Teeter Dance,
    ~Surf + Follow Me,
    ~Surf + Reversal,
    ~Surf + Bide,
    ~Surf + Encore,
    ~Surf + Doubleslap,
    ~Surf + Charge,
    ~Surf + Fake Out,
    ~Surf + Tickle,
    ~Surf + Charm,
    ~Surf + Sweet Kiss,
    ~Surf + Nasty Plot,
    ~Surf + Uproar,
    ~Surf + Dynamicpunch,
    ~Surf + Mega Punch,
    ~Surf + Mega Kick,
    ~Surf + Body Slam,
    ~Surf + Double-edge,
    ~Surf + Counter,
    ~Surf + Seismic Toss,
    ~Surf + Mimic,
    ~Surf + Defense Curl,
    ~Teeter Dance + Follow Me,
    ~Teeter Dance + Reversal,
    ~Teeter Dance + Bide,
    ~Teeter Dance + Present,
    ~Teeter Dance + Encore,
    ~Teeter Dance + Doubleslap,
    ~Teeter Dance + Wish,
    ~Teeter Dance + Charge,
    ~Teeter Dance + Volt Tackle,
    ~Teeter Dance + Fake Out,
    ~Teeter Dance + Tickle,
    ~Follow Me + Reversal,
    ~Follow Me + Bide,
    ~Follow Me + Present,
    ~Follow Me + Encore,
    ~Follow Me + Doubleslap,
    ~Follow Me + Wish,
    ~Follow Me + Charge,
    ~Follow Me + Volt Tackle,
    ~Follow Me + Fake Out,
    ~Follow Me + Tickle,
    ~Fake Out + Dynamicpunch,
    ~Fake Out + Mega Punch,
    ~Fake Out + Mega Kick,
    ~Fake Out + Body Slam,
    ~Fake Out + Double-edge,
    ~Fake Out + Counter,
    ~Fake Out + Seismic Toss,
    ~Fake Out + Mimic,
    ~Fake Out + Defense Curl,
    ~Tickle + Dynamicpunch,
    ~Tickle + Mega Punch,
    ~Tickle + Mega Kick,
    ~Tickle + Body Slam,
    ~Tickle + Double-edge,
    ~Tickle + Counter,
    ~Tickle + Seismic Toss,
    ~Tickle + Mimic,
    ~Tickle + Defense Curl,
    ~Nasty Plot + Dynamicpunch,
    ~Uproar + Dynamicpunch;
    
    Raichu:
    ~Surf + Teeter Dance,
    ~Surf + Follow Me,
    ~Surf + Reversal,
    ~Surf + Bide,
    ~Surf + Encore,
    ~Surf + Doubleslap,
    ~Surf + Charge,
    ~Surf + Fake Out,
    ~Surf + Tickle,
    ~Surf + Charm,
    ~Surf + Sweet Kiss,
    ~Surf + Nasty Plot,
    ~Surf + Uproar,
    ~Surf + Dynamicpunch,
    ~Surf + Mega Punch,
    ~Surf + Mega Kick,
    ~Surf + Body Slam,
    ~Surf + Double-edge,
    ~Surf + Counter,
    ~Surf + Seismic Toss,
    ~Surf + Mimic,
    ~Surf + Defense Curl,
    ~Teeter Dance + Follow Me,
    ~Teeter Dance + Reversal,
    ~Teeter Dance + Bide,
    ~Teeter Dance + Present,
    ~Teeter Dance + Encore,
    ~Teeter Dance + Doubleslap,
    ~Teeter Dance + Wish,
    ~Teeter Dance + Charge,
    ~Teeter Dance + Volt Tackle,
    ~Teeter Dance + Fake Out,
    ~Teeter Dance + Tickle,
    ~Follow Me + Reversal,
    ~Follow Me + Bide,
    ~Follow Me + Present,
    ~Follow Me + Encore,
    ~Follow Me + Doubleslap,
    ~Follow Me + Wish,
    ~Follow Me + Charge,
    ~Follow Me + Volt Tackle,
    ~Follow Me + Fake Out,
    ~Follow Me + Tickle,
    ~Fake Out + Dynamicpunch,
    ~Fake Out + Mega Punch,
    ~Fake Out + Mega Kick,
    ~Fake Out + Body Slam,
    ~Fake Out + Double-edge,
    ~Fake Out + Counter,
    ~Fake Out + Seismic Toss,
    ~Fake Out + Mimic,
    ~Fake Out + Defense Curl,
    ~Tickle + Dynamicpunch,
    ~Tickle + Mega Punch,
    ~Tickle + Mega Kick,
    ~Tickle + Body Slam,
    ~Tickle + Double-edge,
    ~Tickle + Counter,
    ~Tickle + Seismic Toss,
    ~Tickle + Mimic,
    ~Tickle + Defense Curl,
    ~Nasty Plot + Dynamicpunch,
    ~Uproar + Dynamicpunch;
    At least they're in the ground egg group!
  19. Wild Eep

    Wild Eep pet pet pet
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    I just removed the Rollout incompatibilities from Onix because while Onix can't get Rollout in Emerald, it indeed can in Platinum.
  20. SwinubToupée

    SwinubToupée

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    The Hoothoot family had several sets involving Mud-slap and Swift that should not have been there since the Platinum tutor makes those moves legal with anything. The post has been corrected. Thanks to Wild Eep for pointing it out!
  21. Wild Eep

    Wild Eep pet pet pet
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    Flatter + Body Slam and Sand-Attack + Body Slam need to be removed from the Mareep line, as Body Slam is an Egg Move and Mareep can breed with Smeargle.

    EDIT: Removed Perish Song + Sky Attack + Featherdance from the Murkrow line. Altaria covers all three.

    EDIT 2: I never knew the Misdreavus line could learn Defense Curl until now. Fixed.
  22. SwinubToupée

    SwinubToupée

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    On closer examination the Clefairy family required more significant revisions. Here's the whole group:
    Code:
    Cleffa:
    ~Magic Guard + Mega Punch,
    ~Magic Guard + Mega Kick,
    ~Magic Guard + Body Slam,
    ~Magic Guard + Double-edge,
    ~Magic Guard + Counter,
    ~Magic Guard + Seismic Toss,
    ~Magic Guard + Softboiled,
    ~Magic Guard + Defense Curl,
    ~Magic Guard + Nightmare,
    ~Fake Tears + Mega Punch,
    ~Fake Tears + Mega Kick,
    ~Fake Tears + Body Slam,
    ~Fake Tears + Double-edge,
    ~Fake Tears + Counter,
    ~Fake Tears + Seismic Toss,
    ~Fake Tears + Softboiled,
    ~Fake Tears + Defense Curl,
    ~Fake Tears + Nightmare,
    ~Covet + Mega Punch,
    ~Covet + Mega Kick,
    ~Covet + Body Slam,
    ~Covet + Double-edge,
    ~Covet + Counter,
    ~Covet + Seismic Toss,
    ~Covet + Softboiled,
    ~Covet + Defense Curl,
    ~Covet + Nightmare,
    ~Present + Amnesia,
    ~Present + Belly Drum,
    ~Present + Splash,
    ~Present + Fake Tears,
    ~Present + Covet,
    ~Amnesia + Wish,
    ~Amnesia + Fake Tears,
    ~Amnesia + Covet,
    ~Belly Drum + Splash,
    ~Belly Drum + Wish,
    ~Belly Drum + Fake Tears,
    ~Belly Drum + Covet,
    ~Splash + Wish,
    ~Splash + Covet,
    ~Splash + Mimic + Fake Tears;
    
    Clefairy:
    ~Magic Guard + Dynamicpunch,
    ~Fake Tears + Dynamicpunch,
    ~Fake Tears + Mega Punch,
    ~Fake Tears + Mega Kick,
    ~Fake Tears + Body Slam,
    ~Fake Tears + Double-edge,
    ~Fake Tears + Counter,
    ~Fake Tears + Seismic Toss,
    ~Fake Tears + Softboiled,
    ~Fake Tears + Nightmare,
    ~Covet + Dynamicpunch,
    ~Covet + Mega Punch,
    ~Covet + Mega Kick,
    ~Covet + Body Slam,
    ~Covet + Double-edge,
    ~Covet + Counter,
    ~Covet + Seismic Toss,
    ~Covet + Softboiled,
    ~Covet + Nightmare,
    ~Copycat + Dynamicpunch,
    ~Uproar + Dynamicpunch,
    ~Present + Amnesia,
    ~Present + Belly Drum,
    ~Present + Splash,
    ~Present + Fake Tears,
    ~Present + Covet,
    ~Amnesia + Wish,
    ~Amnesia + Fake Tears,
    ~Amnesia + Covet,
    ~Belly Drum + Splash,
    ~Belly Drum + Wish,
    ~Belly Drum + Fake Tears,
    ~Belly Drum + Covet,
    ~Splash + Wish,
    ~Splash + Covet,
    ~Splash + Mimic + Fake Tears;
    
    Clefable:
    ~Fake Tears + Dynamicpunch,
    ~Fake Tears + Mega Punch,
    ~Fake Tears + Mega Kick,
    ~Fake Tears + Body Slam,
    ~Fake Tears + Double-edge,
    ~Fake Tears + Counter,
    ~Fake Tears + Seismic Toss,
    ~Fake Tears + Softboiled,
    ~Fake Tears + Nightmare,
    ~Covet + Dynamicpunch,
    ~Covet + Mega Punch,
    ~Covet + Mega Kick,
    ~Covet + Body Slam,
    ~Covet + Double-edge,
    ~Covet + Counter,
    ~Covet + Seismic Toss,
    ~Covet + Softboiled,
    ~Covet + Nightmare,
    ~Copycat + Dynamicpunch,
    ~Uproar + Dynamicpunch,
    ~Present + Amnesia,
    ~Present + Belly Drum,
    ~Present + Splash,
    ~Present + Fake Tears,
    ~Present + Covet,
    ~Amnesia + Wish,
    ~Amnesia + Fake Tears,
    ~Amnesia + Covet,
    ~Belly Drum + Splash,
    ~Belly Drum + Wish,
    ~Belly Drum + Fake Tears,
    ~Belly Drum + Covet,
    ~Splash + Wish,
    ~Splash + Covet,
    ~Splash + Mimic + Fake Tears;
    In addition to the Endure/Nightmare issues previously posted, problems also included third gen tutor moves that aren't available in fourth gen being absent with certain fourth gen features, egg combinations that are illegal due to the parents that provide the combinations not being able to have them all at the same time (Azumarill has most of Cleffa's egg moves but has four different ways of supplying them), illegal Metronome combinations on Cleffa that are legal if you level up to Clefairy and breed new Cleffas from there, and additional moves that Clefairy must obtain as a fourth gen Cleffa that are illegal with its extra third gen tutor move.

    The breeding with Azumarill is tricky, hopefully we've got this family nailed down now!

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