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Postgame Pocket Monsters Mafia

Discussion in 'Circus Maximus' started by zorbees, Aug 23, 2013.

  1. zorbees

    zorbees
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    Effort-Free Postgame Below:

    Role PMs: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1h569LeKgaJOjKWSlMIOd-CYHVUSxVwu3mPqlwBzuOOk/
    Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsI5SFiBLuuPdHBzOW9fZi10ZG91b3Z5eDlQTkhqZmc

    Pregame:

    I like the designing aspect of mafia but have trouble running one by myself, especially a big, so I needed a cohost. However, I wanted to design most/all of it myself before adding the cohost. It originally started as a game where trainers had abilities and pokemon had abilities, trainers could trade pokemon; it was becoming too complicated so I made it into a pretty basic 2v1 style mafia.

    I started listing roles I wanted to put in the game and then weeding out which ones didn't make sense or just didn't make the cut.

    Early on, I decided I wanted to do split mafia groups but didn't want them to unite by claiming publicly with the protection granted by their alias, so I settled on the solution where the mafias wouldn't know which group allied with them.

    I decided I wanted to have one main wolf that was meant to infiltrate the village and strike early and another wolf who was more defensive and couldn't kill till later to balance the kill counts. I think I shafted Mewtwo too much though, he should have had a full kill after night 9.

    The first items I worked on were the flutes, because I wanted something similar to the Dragonballs and Triforce of previous big games. Most other items were powerful one-timers that I didn't want to make as their own self-contained roles.

    Then I adjusted for balance (but I obviously missed some things, such as Exeggcute [I also think Audino would have been pretty damn good if it was lucky enough to activate]) and it was pretty much ready.

    Player thoughts:

    Village:

    shinyskarmory - didn't really do much, was lynched after the exp share was used.
    ginganinja - i thought he could have been a bit more proactive early on, but he never claimed to the wrong people as far as i know, and lived pretty long
    shade - the gmaxing of ipl and sam was pretty pro. Then did nothing midgame, then crushed lategame.
    agape - died so early, but evolved both stages quickly. this role could have helped jalmont out a bit.
    theangryscientist - got into rare's and later crux's group but didn't do much other than approving actions.
    flamestrike - had a broken info role but was a casualty of the aura_guardian leadership regime.
    infinity.cypher - did not give .01 fucks about the game from what i've heard
    Daletterel/rare555 - daletterel for some reason stepped into a semi-leadership position despite the shitty role. Rare was thrust into this and gave a bunch of info to wolf ipl <.<
    Blue_Tornado - originally empoof had this role and was dicking around, B_T took over and claimed to the right people from what i know.
    Acklow - got inspected and died early
    General Spoon - claimed to paperblade hoping to be recruited, this role was pretty useless though and survived until endgame for that reason. didn't do much of note other than that
    Gronkasaurus Rex - Don't think he did much of note, hit a couple mafias with his hook though. died because of his role i think
    Ace Matator - Gligar role changed hands like 50 times and still didnt do much of note from what i know.
    Jalmont - stole a lot of good shit, and kept his alias pretty well hidden for a while. one of the village's better players
    jumpluff - got into leadership with crux, but was killed when lonelyness used the eject button
    aura guardian - wanted to lead as a vigilante, gave away far too much information to too many people, somewhat luckily only 1 was mafia. got revived and died to his own npc-finder plan
    crux - somehow found super info, his threatening of the mafias didnt work initially as they all targeted village, but may have ended up helping, as everyone ignored the village for a couple cycles
    spiffy - i don't think he ever claimed to the wrong people but i'm not 100% sure, was killed because of his role.
    Mekkah - claimed to layell and ln based on aura guardian's recommendation, as well as not using his item before it was stolen
    RBG - actually sent a couple pms and votes!, died when he started getting too many votes
    Lady Salamence - stopped caring early on
    yeti - helped shade lategame but didn't do too much otherwise,
    steven snype - somehow got onto aura guardian's sheet, didn't do too much of anything with the info though
    blackhawk11 - sorry for the troll role, was originally going to be metal sonic's but walrein said no. hilarious convo between him and aska led to moi's alias becoming public knowledge

    Lugia/Fearsome:

    Lonelyness - moled aura guardian and got a lot of good info from him, leading to good kills like on flamestrike. however he had his team claim a lot of aliases which led to them being known.
    Layell/Daenym - Layell is butthurt, Daenym tried to organize after LN/LW died and Layell quit but died fairly quickly
    penguin344 - the only player on his team who cared lategame, don't think he played too badly though.
    paperblade - didn't seem to care too much, tried to fake claim delibird to delibird though which was pretty funny
    little_gk - didn't do too much, was sold out by the golems i think
    lightwolf - was paranoid early like always but eventually united with the birds, died too early to really contribute too much, as ln was in charge while he was alive
    thorns - idled a lot, penguin344 eventually took over the alias to vote once
    woodchuck - was somewhat active early on, but seemed to disappear with ln and layell

    Golems/Power Pack:

    kingofkongs - didn't do too much, then was rand-recruited by moi, idled forever until dying due to no subs.
    Quagsires - stayed hidden for a while, however he seemed to be missing a bit after billy died which was when his team needed him the most
    askaninjask - united with billy early on due to celever's mishaps, planned along with billy, but disappeared lategame
    eagle4 - trolled the village leadership until he died
    yaytears - was always active and contributing but wasnt the main factor on the golems
    billymills - after losing interest in the game, he gave away 4 flutes to moi to complete the azure flute, probably costing the golems the game. still did well other than that
    celever - he played badly but i think it ended up helping, as both mafias united quickly thanks to him being a public power pack.
    ditto - similar to yaytears, was always active but didn't do too much, killed moi lategame which potentially cost them the game.

    Darkness:

    unclesam: the more active/planning of the pair, tried hard but was targeted by the wide lens, causing the golems (and then everyone) to know his alias. he had earlier been inspected as an npc due to his mole ability.
    imperfectluck: got a lot of info from rare, but crux narrowed down his alias, asked him about it, and ipl confessed. no one likes ipl so they got rid of him quickly.

    Mewtwo:

    moi: due to the aska/blackhawk convo and subsequent lynch, he was lynched and his alias became public. then ipl inspected him on a non-protection night, leaving his role pm to the public. still, lasted long due to the flutes that billy gave him. was a legit threat to win the game late but lost his flute and was killed a bit later.

    Rewards:

    Are dumb so I'm not doing them

    If you have any questions ask and I will answer.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2013
    askaninjask and Jalmont like this.
  2. Jalmont

    Jalmont

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    invisible thief jalmont

    I enjoyed the game but I wish I did more :[

    Does anyone have the full endgame logs (other than the ones from #vote)?

    also im pretty sure we figured out eagle4 was mafia really early so not too much of a troll :/
  3. zorbees

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    lol sorry did i really skip you oops lemme update
  4. Mekkah

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    i did bad but only cause others did bad etc

    Just gonna elaborate a little on my item use (or lack of): I was pretty sure I wanted to use it on either ipl or Paperblade, but not sure which. ipl was wolf but I didn't think it'd be that easy to find out his alias, but I also thought Paperblade's alias might already be out there somewhere because he claimed. I was trying to use it on Paperblade the night I got stolen from...this also got me killed, apparently.

    Weird game, Aura_Guardian and RaRe are the worst, LN don't deadtalk you asshole, zorbees did a good job hosting except maybe extensions those were dumb but then again so are all the idlers.
  5. zorbees

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    The one extension that was really bad was when they switched the lynch form blackhawk to moi. I should have handled that differently but neither myself or walrein were going to be around at deadline and I sort of panicked I guess.
  6. Yeti

    Yeti

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    I actually agree that Audino was a good role for the village, but to play, it kinda sucked. it's impossible to prove my claim until I die, and then I don't personally resurrect. I get to bring back anyone into a NPC which is really useful but boring for me since I prolly won't be trusted in the slightest. I shoulda been able to rogue myself and use the Life Orb.

    also dle had the most hood leadership, he told me to rogue spiffy so I was wasting my target on our own vig half the game until I finally got some actual mafia aliases. unfortunately mine had been leaked thanks to also-hood leader AG, oof!

    RE: Gligar, I got his alias and was promptly chain frozen until Gligar finally died. so he really couldn't do much of anything. I think that freezer/kidnapper role is the most garbage one in the game, as someone who has included many various kidnapping roles people usually disliked them and being chain frozen over and over and over is just plain retarded. no vote, no night action, no ability to avoid the kidnapping really. I think my best kidnapper was the adventure one where you could come out of it with an item and at least had something to do while you were away, but the chain kidnap? v homo.

    i'm just glad we were able to hold strong with our few remaining roles and pull off the win......................... o)
  7. Eagle4

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    Oh damn so somebody was Audino and I claimed Audino x_x
  8. Daenym

    Daenym

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    I subbed in for Layell because Walrein was pretty desperate to have Layell off his case >.>

    Because of the general apathy/inactivity of most of my team, it was hard to really do anything. I felt surprisingly in charge of the faction right after subbing in, with Penguin asking me to submit actions, so I kept thinking he was a recruit. When I died I happened to be in the middle of my vacation, so I kind of stopped playing much attention to the game after that.

    Anyway, it's kind of sad to see that the Golems threw the game as much as they did. While the village still had theoretical lynch control, it didn't change the fact that they were losing lynches because of rampant inactivity (though every faction had to deal with multiple idlers). I was sincere when I talked to aska and said we should hold off on crossfiring, because it would keep the village properly nerfed, but then I died. Oh well.

    I sort of wish I had been around for the start of the game, since I wouldn't have felt so clueless. But then the idea of paranoid LW being in the same factions as paranoid me is scary.
  9. jumpluff

    jumpluff princess
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    yea, this was the only reason there was ever any ambiguity at all

    I was annoyed because I dislike wasting time and I tend to be a thorough person wrt checking certain things but we knew by that point and evasiveness is something I treat as a dead giveaway with scumminess in most situations anyways. (quags)

    Larger post coming soontm
  10. Acklow

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    I died early. I didn't have a chance to shine long enough with trolling Lady Salamence (which was purely coincidental).
  11. penguin344

    penguin344

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    I had thought you were the recruit, given that you didn't have the results for the alliance check.

    Birds got the short end of the stick imo, poor information roles and an idle faction toward the end. Even so, had the faction not stopped caring after we were outed, we might have won or come close.

    18:03 zorbees i think i went overboard when i was balancing on nerfing the birds - it's not just me

    Golems earned the eternal wrath of the Birds n9 by killing us. Village win with crux dead was the aim toward the end, which happened, so I am satisfied with that.

    I withheld the kill n11 as a type of bartering chip I suppose. Two birds would remain in the morning, and ideally shade wouldn't lynch us to keep the kill on the golems. Of course, and item steps into play, and one of us dies, ruining that plan.
  12. Eagle4

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    Ya, I wasn't dodging your or crux's queries because I was scared of being found out as mafia: by that time, I knew I had no hope because I claimed doubler Audino when I was doubler Regirock without realising that flavor was included -- I woulda been better off claiming a mon which just learns Rock Polish. So I knew I would be found out as scum, the best I could do was to protect my alias (although you guys found that out through one of the numerous information roles at your disposal).

    Bummer that the Golems didn't win since we played relatively well throughout; I'm not going to go picking out names to blame for people to blame since everybody had their share in our demise (except YAYtears <3).

    The game was fun although I was left frustrated at the number of information roles the village had.
  13. jumpluff

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    Okay, so firstly, everyone knows I think this game copped excess flak. Hopefully now the information is all on the table you all will be able to see that, while there were definitely design flaws in the game (sidenote but I really dislike on some levels the role mafia sg), a lot of resentment towards this game arose from misinformed player assumptions and players themselves doing really suboptimal things. Of course, a host should expect their game to play out contrary to their intentions to some extent, but some of the stuff that happened in this game was very irrational. I liked that this game was a return to a more simplistic 2v1 format and that is why I decided to play in the first place.

    With that out of the way:

    I think MM2 broke my spirit wrt village leading and so I didn't really want to lead the village at all. When I was given a role that was wholly unsuitable for public claiming, I was perfectly okay with that. Ironically two of the roles most unsuited for running the village ended up doing so. In retrospect, shade was probably the most ideal candidate, considering both player skill/experience and role. Most of the more experienced players on the village ended up with roles that made it difficult for them to claim publicly.

    I was kinda annoyed by the instability of the village leadership from the start, though, with DLE starting to lead then realising he couldn't. I claimed to AG because I considered my role very minor, wanted to be trusted so I could get in the inner circle (I'm a control freak), and falsely expected that most people would have claimed to him already. When Crux and I inherited IPL's spreadsheet, we were very disappointed to discover that the village had almost zero information, that I was one of the few people who had fully claimed, and that most of the information on it was actually from IPL anyway. I have no idea why this was -- inefficient information gathering, confusion over the Delibird stuff, people being dongers -- but it was for the best in that almost everyone except the town was aware of the information AG already had.

    Normally I have a policy of dealing with IPL as minimally as possible because of his reputation. I don't like complicated negotiations, another reason I hate leading a faction. Just put me in the inner circle and I'm good. He PMed me one day though and spilled that he knew everything about my role. I was really pissed off to find out that IPL was on the sheet, since he was explicitly not village and IPL is not exactly the first person I'd trust with the aliases of the village leadership, but he invited me to his coalition channel (and Crux), which had representatives from every faction except the Birds. In other words, it was an anti-Birds channel. IPL decided to install puppet leaders on the village and at this point I had kinda accepted that I couldn't rest easy until I got village control because I couldn't trust anyone but myself, not even Crux at this point, so I went along with it and RaRe basically just got usurped. I feel bad for RaRe because he had to sub in at such a confusing time and have so much put on his shoulders, heh.

    There was competition from LN and Layell but Crux and I weren't worried, since Layell's fake was really dubious on lots of levels, although for what it's worth I 'moled' (if you can call it that... lol) in the first Pokémon Mafia with a similar claim. Plus we had the sheet, so it was easy to just pull an IPL, tell people we knew stuff about their role, and make them claim. One thing I do think I am useful at in a village is contacting people and gathering information. I began to trust Crux as well because he was acting so unambiguously pro-village. Crux made a bunch of information trades (i.e. handling the stuff he's great at and I hate doing) and used godlike intuition to fill in the blanks on our sheet. Based off a few pieces of information and hunches he managed to guess one of IPL's aliases and confront him, which was particularly useful and amazing to watch. We figured out that it was either UncleSam's alias or IPL had multiple aliases though, in part because there was a fair wait and then IPL was like 'check your inbox' and there was a PM from Ned. Which I accidentally opened.

    I was permanently pissed off this mafia, well, when I wasn't totally amazed by Crux's combination of nerve and intuition (I respect it in particular because I'm a very intuitive person and refuse to listen to it, which usually leads to my downfall), because my village was fucking idle. Tracking everyone down and PMing them was frustrating in itself, let alone having to nag everyone to vote. I died in the lynch because IPL voted me with his aliases for some reason (apparently not actually thinking I'd die) and I thought it would be safe to vote for myself so I could switch form, and because I asked people to switch their votes onto the new lynch target because they were being inactive. If I had neglected to do either, I would've been third in the vote and not second, and thus they wouldn't've used the item. I got myself killed in the first Pokémon Mafia by giving my alias to a false claiming bodyguard to protect (he thought I was a high-value target and killed me, only to discover I was the other mafia's mole) so I was annoyed by that but thought it was funny. At least I died right after Mekkah <3

    I stopped paying attention throughout the mid/mid-late game because I was really disgusted by how much people idled in this game. I know Mekkah and shade intend to make a mafia with a much smaller player size, and for that I commend them, because with a mafia of this size, we don't have the playerbase to supply substitutes, or even active people. It was really shameful how the night got extended for nearly three days or something because the Golems couldn't be bothered to get actions together without billymills there, and we lost lynch control not because villagers died but because they couldn't be bothered to post 'Lynch x' once every four days. A bunch of people were really careless or outright played to lose and those people should seriously reconsider why they want to play mafia if they think of signing up in future. It's not stated in the OP (I think), but yoshinite not only neglected to ever claim or be available to talk to the village, he told his irl friend Celever his role and did nothing else. This was the most egregious example, but there are a bunch of others. zorbees didn't mention this in the OP, but the village bodyguard, whom I REPEATEDLY nagged to get his actions in, idled one night and sent in a rand inspect the others instead of protecting the person they were instructed to, resulting in Spiffy dying. The Birds wanting to go kamikaze and abusing the hosts because Crux, using deduction, figured out who they all were, and because they assumed that this was the result of some super inspector instead of just Crux having information, was pretty bad (if really funny, I won't lie) too.

    So, yea, I sound harsh, but most of the playerbase was really sloppy and/or idle this game and it bothered me a lot. I'm not saying I played perfectly, I got myself killed and I was unavailable to vote in one lynch (not that I knew they had that many lynch redirects...), but people should at least try, and they should at least show some vital signs.

    Also screw deadtalking.

    Thanks for hosting, zorbees and Walrein! I love you, Mekkah!
    Crux and Eagle4 like this.
  14. penguin344

    penguin344

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    to be fair, if exxeggute wasn't in the game, we might not have reached the super info village conclusion.
  15. jumpluff

    jumpluff princess
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    We didn't even have a proper inspector, we had a whole bunch of info roles and a lategame inspector (which is worthless). Not like you can see into zorbees's mind, but knowing that Exeggcute was dead, I probably wouldn't've guessed the village had another role that could inspect like eight dudes in a night

    I don't think your conclusion was totally invalid from where you guys were standing but I wouldn't've gone FUCK ZORBEES LET'S ALL THROW WOW THIS GAME IS THE WORST THING EVER @#($# without more information

    I would've done it to Raikage tho (true story, I complained a lot to hosts in the past)
  16. zorbees

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    In response to the end of jumpluff's big post, I'm working on a bunch of games at once, and they're all small. The main reason I hosted a game like this is because there was a lot of demand for a big, 2v1 style game. I've previously stated that I whipped this game up pretty quickly, which probably contributed to some of the ridiculous roles.
  17. Yeti

    Yeti

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    ah, an excellent idea.................. *takes note in BIGS2secrets.docx*
    Crux and jumpluff like this.
  18. penguin344

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    yeah, part of the reason that things went very sour was crux's touting that there would be five lynches. We assumed it was the role snorlax would get with slowking's death, and that was when layell decided to ragequit so spectacularily

    also, shades role pretty much could inspect 8 people in one night. We didn't know it was on any number of people greater than three, we had thought it was a flat three. The reaction might have been worse had we known that.
  19. Paperblade

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    We thought shade was four because that's what LN said.

    Also I have to wonder what gave zorbees the impression I didn't care considering I was the first/second most active player on my team at pretty much any given time.
  20. jumpluff

    jumpluff princess
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    Party guy (shade's role) isn't OP though! Not like it could've told us who you guys were, just that at least one of you wasn't village. It is pretty good for cleaning people though.
  21. Blue_Tornado

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    From the POV of a useless semi-idling villager: I think the fact that we were so chaotic as a village post-leak is what caused a lot of people to lose interest, including myself. People can feel free to confirm/deny.
  22. jumpluff

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    idk, the post-leak stuff motivated me to take care of the village myself personally, but I acknowledge it as a factor. It made a lot of ppl feel like the game was over, I think.

    Village idleness is always a problem anyway due to the leader system, it was just inexcusably severe this time.
  23. zorbees

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    paperblade it was really more towards the end of the game, mainly because of seeing your posts on the forum that were all shitty, as well as penguin always doing the night actions, i don't know how much you talked on irc though because i wasnt in all the channels all the time
  24. UncleSam

    UncleSam

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    I'm still not sure how we were ever possibly supposed to have a chance to win this game

    At least the retard mafias didn't win though
  25. Paperblade

    Paperblade

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    Well like I said about a thousand times when I was asking for a sub, I had a personal emergency that took priority over this game.

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