Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

[Pikachu315111]

For a change of pace, how about a mechanic oddity?

Grounded. A strange mechanic, it was technically introduced in Gen VI though it always felt its been around. Its simple to understand, Pokemon who aren't Flying-type, have Levitate, holding an Air Balloon, or under the effects of Magnet Rise or Telekinesis are "grounded" (though these "ungrounded" conditions can be undone if these Pokemon are holding an Iron Ball or under the effect of Ingrain, Smack Down, Gravity, or Thousand Arrows). Grounded became a mechanic when the Terrain Moves were introduced as only Pokemon touching the ground are affected.

So why did I bring all this up? Well just a funny thing I noticed: Dig doesn't make a Pokemon grounded for the one turn its underground. So Charizard, Ledyba family, Gligar family, Ninjask, Vibrava, Flygon, Baltoy family, Archen family, Landorus, Hawlucha, and Vikavolt can be both touching (or rather in) the ground yet still not get the effects of the Terrain moves. :P

 

[Talpr0ne]

For a change of pace, how about a mechanic oddity?

Grounded. A strange mechanic, it was technically introduced in Gen VI though it always felt its been around. Its simple to understand, Pokemon who aren't Flying-type, have Levitate, holding an Air Balloon, or under the effects of Magnet Rise or Telekinesis are "grounded" (though these "ungrounded" conditions can be undone if these Pokemon are holding an Iron Ball or under the effect of Ingrain, Smack Down, Gravity, or Thousand Arrows). Grounded became a mechanic when the Terrain Moves were introduced as only Pokemon touching the ground are affected.

So why did I bring all this up? Well just a funny thing I noticed: Dig doesn't make a Pokemon grounded for the one turn its underground. So Charizard, Ledyba family, Gligar family, Ninjask, Vibrava, Flygon, Baltoy family, Archen family, Landorus, Hawlucha, and Vikavolt can be both touching (or rather in) the ground yet still not get the effects of the Terrain moves. :P

Hasn't "grounded" technically always been around for Spikes?

 

[Pikachu315111]

Hasn't "grounded" technically always been around for Spikes?

Well, actually, it's not a mechanic of its own, more like part of the default. All entry hazards (except Stealth Rock) do not affect ungrounded Pokemon. It's more that the Pokemon is a Flying-type, has Levitate, etc. that makes them immune to those Entry Hazards (among other effects) rather than a Pokemon having a "grounded" status condition. Because there is none. It's a bit confusing, it only really became a thing thanks to Terrain Moves.

 

[Siggu]

Hasn't "grounded" technically always been around for Spikes?

Yeah, but it was in Gen IV, with the introduction of Gravity, that "grounded" stopped being the same as "not a Flying-type".

 

[Pikachu315111]

Play Rough, or "Frolic" in Japanese.

Odd choices who gets it: Poochyena family, Slakoth, & Absol. Because I can so see these Pokemon happily hopping through a meadow of flowers. :P

Odd choices who didn't get it: Xerneas, Swablu family, Audino, Cottonee family, Carbink, Klefki, Diancie, Tapu Koko, & Tapu Bulu would kind of like a powerful (and only) Physical Fairy-type move. As for context, how about Deerling family and Stantler?

 

[Carrier]

Play Rough, or "Frolic" in Japanese.

Odd choices who gets it: Poochyena family, Slakoth, & Absol. Because I can so see these Pokemon happily hopping through a meadow of flowers. :P

Odd choices who didn't get it: Xerneas, Swablu family, Audino, Cottonee family, Carbink, Klefki, Diancie, Tapu Koko, & Tapu Bulu would kind of like a powerful (and only) Physical Fairy-type move. As for context, how about Deerling family and Stantler?

Klefki gets Play Rough. That being said, Dazzling Gleam and Play Rough are weird like that; for example, Dedenne gets Play Rough, but not Dazzling Gleam (to actually make use of its "best" attack stat)

I feel like GameFreak just figured most of these guys had a fairy move and didn't think they'd need what was designed to be the physical / special counterpart.

 

[Random Passerby]

For a change of pace, how about a mechanic oddity?

Grounded. A strange mechanic, it was technically introduced in Gen VI though it always felt its been around. Its simple to understand, Pokemon who aren't Flying-type, have Levitate, holding an Air Balloon, or under the effects of Magnet Rise or Telekinesis are "grounded" (though these "ungrounded" conditions can be undone if these Pokemon are holding an Iron Ball or under the effect of Ingrain, Smack Down, Gravity, or Thousand Arrows). Grounded became a mechanic when the Terrain Moves were introduced as only Pokemon touching the ground are affected.

So why did I bring all this up? Well just a funny thing I noticed: Dig doesn't make a Pokemon grounded for the one turn its underground. So Charizard, Ledyba family, Gligar family, Ninjask, Vibrava, Flygon, Baltoy family, Archen family, Landorus, Hawlucha, and Vikavolt can be both touching (or rather in) the ground yet still not get the effects of the Terrain moves. :P

That reminds me of the time when my Flygon used Dig to go underground and still managed to avoid being hit by an Earthquake. Good times.

 

[Siggu]

Psychic Fangs

A biting move that also happens to be a slightly stronger Brick Break. Bruxish is the only Pokemon that gets the move by level up, and the only one that gets STAB on it. Sounds like a signature move, right?

Well... Carvanha and Lillipup, for some reason, have Psychic Fangs as Egg Moves.

Why does this move have so few possible users, and at the same time isn't a signature move?

 

[jordanthejq12]

Also, why is it called Psychic Fangs, plural, and not like Ice/Thunder/Fire/Hyper Fang, singular?

 

[The Squash]

Recently I discovered that because Pokebank doesn't allow the transfer of Pokemon who know HM moves, meaning Strength and Cut are now exclusive moves. "But which mons get them?" you may be thinking. Well the two lucky mons are none other than... Machamp and Kartana respectively. You would think with descriptions like The target is slugged with a punch thrown at maximum power and The target is cut with a scythe or claw more Pokemon would be able to learn these moves.

 

[Siggu]

I was reading Magearna's Uber analysis and I realized of something that is incredibly weird about it - it cannot learn Toxic.

It's the only Pokemon in existence that cannot learn Toxic yet can learn moves through TM that it cannot learn by level up.

Why?

 

[Pikachu315111]

So, how about them Z-Moves? Warning, these will probably be more nitpicks than actual oddities.

NOTE: I'm not going to focus on how some Z-Moves should be impossible for certain Pokemon. Let's just assume Z-Moves changes/adds to a Pokemon's biology temporarily to make it capable. But just to mention a few: Supersonic Skystrike (Flying) has the Pokemon flying, Savage Spin-Out (Bug) has the Pokemon able to create thread, and Hydro Vortex assumes the Pokemon can swim/isn't weak to Water.

1. To start with a small one, Z-Moves ignore type changing Abilities. While it stinks that Sylveon and Primarina with Hyper Voice, it especially stinks for Alolan Geodude family who, if they want to use Gigavolt Havok, can't use Explosion to substitute (or Double-Edge if they don't want a OHKO move).

2. The Pokemon Specific Z-Moves aren't all the same Power. You'd think they'd all be 210 (or higher if an Event Pokemon), 10 points above how high a normal Z-Move could be, but they aren't.

• Normal Pikachu's Catastropika is 210 compared to Cap Pikachu's 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt which is 195. Now yes, 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt has a +2 Critical Hit Ratio, meaning it has half a chance of doing 292.5. Not bad, but still has half of chance of doing less than it could have done with the Z-Move every Pikachu can learn. In this case I'd understand for them to go above 210, or make it like 170 but garuntee it'll get a Critical Hit so it'll actually be 255.
• The Starter's Z-Moves: First, Primarina's is Water-type and 195 while the other two are their secondary type and 180.
  Second, while that this is alright for Decidueye, Incineroar could opt out for Inferno Overdrive via Flare Blitz for STAB 190. But Primarina can outdamage its Z-Move with Hydro Vortex via Hydro Cannon for STAB 200.
• I don't think I need to mention the Island Guardians would rather a normal Z-Move where they have a chance of knocking out their opponent. At least give Guardian of Alola like a chance to OHKO or if the opponent is below a certain amount of HP.

For the ones below 210, it feels like they didn't make it 210 simple because they could get away with it as, hey, it's still more powerful than it would have normally been.

3. The actual reason for this post is actually because I wanted to see if there was any rhyme or reason to some Z-Status Move effects. Here's my findings:

• At first it looked like any Status move that increased your Pokemon's stats would reset your Pokemon's lowest stats. Alright, makes sense. Except I then found a few which rose one of the Pokemon's stats by a stage or two. It just seems odd because like more than half does the reset thing yet there's then a batch which don't. And then there's some moves that does the reset thing yet has nothing to do with the user's stats (like Dark Void, which I think the user would rather a Speed or Special Attack increase).
  
• Some Z-Status fully heal the user's (or the Pokemon whom replaces it) HP, but the choice of which moves does that is odd. Think the normal recovery moves would? Nope, most of those reset user's lowest stat for some reason. So what moves get it? Ghost-type Curse, Spite, Aromatherapy, Mist, Haze, Transform, Conversion 2, Belly Drum, Heal Bell, Psych Up, Stockpile, Refresh, and Teleport. Now a lot of those are fine and neat it gets that effect, though why Spite? Heck, Mist would benefit from the reset effect more. Also, if Curse and Belly Drum gets this why not Substitute which gets stat reset?
  Then there's Memento and Parting Shot. They fully heals the allow switched in, neat, but what about Baton Pass. Baton Pass resets lowered stats, which makes sense I think it would rather have the full healing (though this did help it miss being effected by a glitch).
• There are some rare moves that actually increase the five non-HP stats by 1 stage. These moves are Geomancy, Trick-or-Treat, Forest's Curse, Conversion, Sketch, Happy Hour, Celebrate, Hold Hands, and Purify. Most are understandable... but why Trick-or-Treat, Forest's Curse, Purify? I think the Pumpkaboo and Phantump family would rather another effect like increasing a certain stat multiple stages. And only Pyukumuku gets Purify and I know it would have probably preferred full healing.
  
• There are two moves which make the user the "center of attention": Destiny Bond and Grudge. Makes sense, but why not the Protect variants too? Most of them get the stat reset effect.
  
• There are some which don't have a Z-Status effect: Metronome if it chooses a Status Move, Lunar Dance, and Healing Wish. Why don't the Status Moves that Metronome pick get their Z-Status effect? As for Lunar Dance and Healing Wish, you could have the Pokemon that switches in get something like at least a stat increase?
  
• And finally there are just some status moves who get a stat increase which I don't feel correlates with the effect of the status move. Many do, but I've seen some which don't. Also I think all Signature Status Moves should get a little something extra though only a few do (and then we get the question if that little extra makes sense).

 

[michaeloche]

So, apparently Typhlosion gets Gyro Ball. Okay.

 

[Siggu]

So, apparently Typhlosion gets Gyro Ball. Okay.

Just roll with it (just like I think Typhlosion would pull the move).

And I know this was barely brought up before... but I find odd that Tapu Koko does not learn Play Rough.

The japanese name implies the Pokemon beats up the target as if it were a game.

It's stated multiple times that Tapu Koko is somewhat playful and loves battles. Play Rough would be fitting.

(While it would also like to get Play Rough, Tapu Bulu does not look like the Pokemon that would learn it, with nothing implying some sort of playfulness)



Another oddity is not exactly move related, but the fact the Cranidos line does not have Rock Head as a possible ability. You'd think a species whose whole niche (not competitively speaking) is headbutting things (and whose former signature move is a very powerful headbutt) would have it, but no.

 

[Pikachu315111]

So, apparently Typhlosion gets Gyro Ball. Okay.

Why is that odd?

If its because of its shape we also have the Onix family, Miltank, Rayquaza, Volcanion, Passimian, Solgaleo, Buzzhole, Guzzlord, and Necrozma.
If its because its fast we also have the Voltorb family, Staryu family, Woobat family, Venipede family, Darumaka family (yes, Darmanitan Zen Mode is slow, but it also switched to being a Special Attacker), Togedemaru, and Solgaleo.

Also, there is some slight justification for some of these Pokemon like Typhlosion and Miltank: they can learn moves where they curl up. Defense Curl, Rollout, Flame Wheel show these Pokemon can at least contract/withdraw themselves to a ball/circular shape, and to use Gyro Ball all you need is being able to spin.

Though that of course leads us to the next list of who doesn't get it though could really use it: Registeel, Aron family, Shieldon family, Nosepass family, and Escavalier. I'm sure there are other slow non-Steel types too though for now I'm just focusing on Steel-types.

... say, why doesn't Gyro Ball get a boost from Defense Curl like Rollout and Ice Ball does if that's the case?

(While it would also like to get Play Rough, Tapu Bulu does not look like the Pokemon that would learn it, with nothing implying some sort of playfulness)

Another oddity is not exactly move related, but the fact the Cranidos line does not have Rock Head as a possible ability. You'd think a species whose whole niche (not competitively speaking) is headbutting things (and whose former signature move is a very powerful headbutt) would have it, but no.

Eh, I'd still give it to Tapu Bulu since its not like it can't use it. Actually, I think it would like to use it very much.

As for Cranidos family and Rock Head, its like GF is teasing it with it since they don't have a second normal Ability. I think GF's original thinking is that its mean to be a glass canon, but then they went out of their way to have something which would go against that idea yet purposely keep it away to artificially enforce their original idea.

At the very least GF give Head Smash something like a 10% chance to Flinch. That way it can use Sheer Force (plus Life Orb, can someone do the calcs on that?).

NEW ODDITY: Flower Gift. Cherrim's Signature Ability, and I don't get it. In sunny weather it increases the user and allies Attack and Special Defense by 1.5x. Why Attack and Special Attack? Usually a Pokemon with high Attack doesn't really focus on Special Defense and vice versa, so why these two stats which at best a Pokemon can only take advantage of one stat boost. Heck, Cherrim itself would only take advantage of the Special Defense increase as it has a higher Special Attack! Why not increase the Special stats? Or just increase a Pokemon's two highest stats?

 

[cityscapes]

At the very least GF give Head Smash something like a 10% chance to Flinch. That way it can use Sheer Force (plus Life Orb, can someone do the calcs on that?).

Rampardos is so weak smh
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Rampardos Rock Slide (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 464-547 (121.4 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 492-579 (128.7 - 151.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

NEW ODDITY: Flower Gift. Cherrim's Signature Ability, and I don't get it. In sunny weather it increases the user and allies Attack and Special Defense by 1.5x. Why Attack and Special Attack? Usually a Pokemon with high Attack doesn't really focus on Special Defense and vice versa, so why these two stats which at best a Pokemon can only take advantage of one stat boost. Heck, Cherrim itself would only take advantage of the Special Defense increase as it has a higher Special Attack! Why not increase the Special stats? Or just increase a Pokemon's two highest stats?

This has annoyed me for years. Why can't Cherrim get a boost on Solar Beam? Why does it need sun to function in the first place? Why does it have no physical movepool? aaaaaaaaa

 

[Kadabrium]

Also, why is it called Psychic Fangs, plural, and not like Ice/Thunder/Fire/Hyper Fang, singular?

I honestly don't think there is any logical reason (bruxish doesnt have distinctively more fangs than many other pokemon who previously utilized the other moves, such as sharpedo, and in the move animations the same jaw figure is reused). Now that the move name length limit is expanded, guess they gonna have to find ways to use it

 

[Karxrida]

IMO "Psychic Fang" just sounds weird when said out loud while "Psychic Fangs" doesn't.

There might be a legit grammar reason behind it that I don't know of, but that's my take.

 

[Hyper Cutter]

Another oddity is not exactly move related, but the fact the Cranidos line does not have Rock Head as a possible ability. You'd think a species whose whole niche (not competitively speaking) is headbutting things (and whose former signature move is a very powerful headbutt) would have it, but no.

Or Aerodactyl with the reverse problem: it's a Rock/Flying type with Rock head that learns neither Head Smash or Brave Bird (sure, it's not a bird, but neither is Crobat so *shrugs*).

Also, looking at it now Tapu Koko is the only non-bird other than Crobat that learns Brave Bird, I guess because its shell is a chicken's head. Though if they were giving Tapus moves based on their shells, Tapu Lele should have Quiver Dance due to being a butterfly and Tapu Fini should learn Megahorn like Tapu Bulu does (since both get the explicitly horn-based Smart Strike).

 

[Siggu]

Also, looking at it now Tapu Koko is the only non-bird other than Crobat that learns Brave Bird, I guess because its shell is a chicken's head. Though if they were giving Tapus moves based on their shells, Tapu Lele should have Quiver Dance due to being a butterfly and Tapu Fini should learn Megahorn like Tapu Bulu does (since both get the explicitly horn-based Smart Strike).

Quiver Dance Tapu Lele... *shivers*

 

[Karxrida]

I never bought that Lele was supposed to be a butterfly. It's too fat (relative to butterfly proportions) and its "wings" are too small. It looks like a snail to me when it's doing Guardian of Alola.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Rampardos is so weak smh
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Rampardos Rock Slide (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 464-547 (121.4 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 492-579 (128.7 - 151.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Well, yeah, if you give Mewtwo X Huge Power of course its going to out damage it. :P

Or Aerodactyl with the reverse problem: it's a Rock/Flying type with Rock head that learns neither Head Smash or Brave Bird (sure, it's not a bird, but neither is Crobat so *shrugs*).

Also, looking at it now Tapu Koko is the only non-bird other than Crobat that learns Brave Bird, I guess because its shell is a chicken's head. Though if they were giving Tapus moves based on their shells, Tapu Lele should have Quiver Dance due to being a butterfly and Tapu Fini should learn Megahorn like Tapu Bulu does (since both get the explicitly horn-based Smart Strike).

Well Quiver Dance's Japanese name is "Butterfly Dance" so used to be butterfly/moth exclusive. However Gen VII broke that rule by giving it to Bellossom, Wormadam, Cutiefly family, and Pheromosa (and Lilligant got it too before then). So it looks like GF maybe loosening their strict restrictions relating to move names (course still took Flareon 3 gens to get Flare Blitz so who knows how long it would take for Aerodactyl to be considered to get Brave Bird and Head Smash).

I never bought that Lele was supposed to be a butterfly. It's too fat (relative to butterfly proportions) and its "wings" are too small. It looks like a snail to me when it's doing Guardian of Alola.

Bulbapedia theorizes its origins is a Butterfly emerging from its chrysalis. Also the "Lele" part of its name comes from "pulelehua" Hawaiian for butterfly (its Japanese name is based on an old Japanese way of writing butterfly). Though to me its shell always looked like an ant's face due to the mouthpiece.

 

[Oriolous]

I never bought that Lele was supposed to be a butterfly. It's too fat (relative to butterfly proportions) and its "wings" are too small. It looks like a snail to me when it's doing Guardian of Alola.

Well, yeah, if you give Mewtwo X Huge Power of course its going to out damage it. :P



Well Quiver Dance's Japanese name is "Butterfly Dance" so used to be butterfly/moth exclusive. However Gen VII broke that rule by giving it to Bellossom, Wormadam, Cutiefly family, and Pheromosa (and Lilligant got it too before then). So it looks like GF maybe loosening their strict restrictions relating to move names (course still took Flareon 3 gens to get Flare Blitz so who knows how long it would take for Aerodactyl to be considered to get Brave Bird and Head Smash).



Bulbapedia theorizes its origins is a Butterfly emerging from its chrysalis. Also the "Lele" part of its name comes from "pulelehua" Hawaiian for butterfly (its Japanese name is based on an old Japanese way of writing butterfly). Though to me its shell always looked like an ant's face due to the mouthpiece.

The shell is based on the head of a butterfly, with a curled up proboscis and it's little hairpieces being the antennae.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Just for fun I looked through the new Dex entries and found some stuff which doesn't quite add up (and yes this is a counterpart post to the one in the Mysteries & Conspiracies thread):

In battle, it throws punches with all four arms. The power of each individual blow is piddly, so it aims to win by quantity rather than quality.

Intern Desinger: Sir, I just noticed that Ledian attacks by punching but its Attack stat is pitiful, maybe we could switch around its stats to reflect that.
Senior Desinger: No, drastically changing its stats might upset those who bred a competitive Ledian.
ID: I guarantee there's very little to no competitive Ledian.
SD: Still we got to assume. I know! Let's make it a joke. We're giving new Pokedex descriptions to older Pokemon in the Alolan Dex. Make one of them say it attacks by punching but the punches are pathetic so it makes up by punching a lot.
ID: Oh, well, alright. Though should we give it Skill Link to reflect that?
SD: It has Iron Fist, it'll be fine.

Slowbro Sun Entry: It spaces out while gazing at the sea. With Shellder's poison flowing through its body, it becomes even spacier.
Slowking Sun Entry: A poisonous bite reacted with its system, blessing it with the enhanced intellect of a genius. It has full control of its psychic powers.

Now this isn't the only dex entry that mentions Shellder is poisonous... except Shellder's only poisonous move is Toxic which it learns via TM. I could see it learning Poison Sting at least, maybe Poison Jab since it does have spikes.

It looks down on everyone other than itself. Its preferred tactics are sucker punches and blindside attacks.

Doesn't learn Sucker Punch (though does get Fake Out), also it becomes a Special Attacker.

With magnetic traction, it pulls its opponents in close. When they're in range, it slashes them with its rear claws.

Doesn't have Magnet Pull and only learns Take Down (so no magnet nor slashing moves).

Sun Entry: The shell on its back is chemically unstable and explodes violently if struck. The hole in its stomach is its weak point.
Moon Entry: It gushes fire and poisonous gases from its nostrils. Its dung is an explosive substance and can be put to various uses.

Doesn't get Aftermath.

This Pokémon has existed since the Ice Age. It controls particles of ice, freezes its opponents, and then shatters them with a headbutt.

Doesn't get any headbutting moves (not that it could use them).

Sun Entry: It has long been thought that its crystalline orbs are imbued with the power to control the weather.
Moon Entry: From time immemorial, it has been venerated by agricultural peoples as an entity able to control the weather.

Doesn't learn Weather Ball. I won't bring up the weather Abilities as there's too many for it to have, though I can maybe see it having Cloud Nine (or Drizzle, Dragonite would probably like 100% accurate Hurricanes and Thunders).

Solgaleo Moon Entry: This Pokemon is said to be a male evolution of Cosmog. At the activation of its third eye, it departs for another world.
Lunala Sun Entry: It is said to be a female evolution of Cosmog. When its third eye activates, away it flies to another world.

Solgaleo and Lunala are not gendered. Of course there's reasons for this, they're the mascot Legendaries who always been genderless (Zekrom is presented masculine and Reshiram is presented feminine). Of course that's only been applied, and it's not Legendaries haven't been gendered before.

Spearow Sun Entry: Its short wings make it inept at flying. It moves about hurriedly and pecks at Bug-type Pokémon in the tall grass.
Vibrava Sun Entry: Rather than using its underdeveloped wings for flight, it rubs them together, producing ultrasonic waves to attack its enemies.
Vullaby Moon Entry: It can't fly yet and must wait until its wings have developed more. Since it's still at a playful age, it hops around friskily.

Guess who can learn Fly and in previous gens had no problems with flying the player to visited locations?

 

[Carrier]

Has anyone gone through Tauros' movepool and just been amazed at what weird stuff has been in there?

First, that it learns Zen Headbutt naturally, but not normal Headbutt, despite Dex entries that it slams into trees to calm itself down (a literal headbutt for Zen I guess?). It also doesn't even get Body Slam normally. Maybe it's just me, but these seem like obvious moves Tauros should have.

It also has a wild movepool, consisting of odd things like Incinerate, Water Pulse, Icy Wind, Outrage, Iron Tail, Whirlpool, and Shockwave, Ice Beam, Rain Dance, Solar Beam, Flamethrower, Sandstorm, and the rare Smart Strike.

I guess it's normal type love, because, while neat, a fire-breathing water-controlling bull makes little sense.