Pokemon Platinum - The definitive thread: Mach 3 (Competitive Discussion)

[Age of Kings]

Isn't it interesting, though, that we still continue to use RBY moves in regularity in spite of all of the generation changes...?

Hell, the elemental punch tutors themselves....

Just a wandering thought.

 

[Khyl]

Aww...... No Zen Headbutt on Relicanth. :(

Really, that would've been WAY better then Double Edge on the Choice Band Set. All it's good for is hitting Breloom. >.<

Relicanth got nothing good. ._.

 

[Tytus]

Aww...... No Zen Headbutt on Relicanth. :(

Really, that would've been WAY better then Double Edge on the Choice Band Set. All it's good for is hitting Breloom. >.<

Relicanth got nothing good. ._.

Especially since the Japanese name is Reminiscent Headbutt. Relicanth is old as dirt he has plenty to reminisce about while he's headbutting you...

 

[FiveKRunner]

New set for Honchkrow:
Anti-lead Honchkrow @ Life Orb
Insomnia
Naughty
6 HP/ 252 Att/ 252 Sp Att
~Heat Wave
~Hp Electric/Drill Peck
~Sucker Punch
~Superpower/Drill Peck

All stats over 100% have been omitted and lowered to 100% (OHKO)
Heat Wave to Bronzong- 56% minimum (2OHKO even with Leftovers)
HP Electric to Gyarados- 99.5% minimum lol
Superpower to Tyranitar- 100%
Suckerpunch to Gengar- 100%
Suckerpunch to Azelf- 100%
Superpower to Blissey- 100%
Heat Wave to Yanmega- 100%
HP Electric to Aerodactyl- 100%
Suckerpunch to Jolteon- 100%

It's good to see that Honchkrow is getting a little bit more attention. Here's the anti-lead set that I used since late July:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44970

My abuses Sucker Punch/Pursuit for surprise KOs. Thunder Wave when coupled with Focus Sash completely ruined any sweeper that I wasn't able to take on and Taunt could keep Bronzong from setting up early on in the match. I'd be likely to add Superpower over Taunt though since the one main thing that it couldn't take on was Tyranitar.

I do like the thought of adding a Life Orb though. It gives that extra power to Sucker Punch that allows it to KO some of the other frail leads. When it comes down to it though, I think I'm going to end up sticking with Focus Sash for the surprise factor that it has.

 

[Khyl]

He didn't even get IRON HEAD!

Headbutt-like things are his speciality that he shares with Rampardos. HEAD SMASH anyone?

Maybe he's been using that so much that he got amnesia, and couldn't reminisce because he can't remember anything. >.>

 

[Dormin]

I hope I'm not the only one excited about Thunderpunch Charizard. I've been waiting for this ever since goddamn Typhlosion got it. I'd have to run some calcs, but I'd like to see bulky waters defend against Bellyzard now :naughty:

 

[Deck Knight]

Isn't it interesting, though, that we still continue to use RBY moves in regularity in spite of all of the generation changes...?

Hell, the elemental punch tutors themselves....

Just a wandering thought.

RBY pretty much formed the foundation of every attack type except Bug(GSC), Fighting (GSC), Dragon(ADV), Dark(GSC) and Steel(DP).

ADV marked the advent of usable Dragon attacks. Outrage in GSC was nice and all, but it was a Thrash move and underpowered. Dragon Claw was the first Dragon Move people started actually using on Dragons. Cross Chop was the first widely used Fighting move, since Submission sucked and HJK was Hitmonlee only. And uh, well, Megahorn was invented in GSC. Hidden Power was kind of a catch-all for everything else, so, yeah. Honestly, unless you want to count Metagross with Meteor Mash, Steel moves didn't start being used on sets until DP.

 

[Problem2]

Magikarp get's bounce? .... wait.. that mean's that Gyarados get's bounce! That means that Gyarados finally has a flying type move! OMG! EVERYBODY! GYARADOS HAS A FLYING MOVE NOW!!! AMAAAAZZZZIINGGG! HOLY CRAP!

 

[Bogmire]

Magikarp get's bounce? .... wait.. that mean's that Gyarados get's bounce! That means that Gyarados finally has a flying type move! OMG! EVERYBODY! GYARADOS HAS A FLYING MOVE NOW!!! AMAAAAZZZZIINGGG! HOLY CRAP!

bounce might actually be semi useful for hitting bulky grass types and starmie.

 

[RBG]

bounce might actually be semi useful for hitting bulky grass types and starmie.

Because when you use grass, someone is going to leave their Bulky Grass in to take a super-effective hit.....

 

[corynorhinus]

Ha - I guess Gyara does get a flying move now...though i'm definitely not sold on Bounce's effectiveness.

I personally am most excited about Vaporeon's new addition of Muddy Water. Playing doubles, this provides greater versatility and is essentially Surf that doesn't hit your partner AND has a 30% chance to lower each opponent's accuracy. The 85 accuracy isn't as good as Surf, but the ability to hit only opposition while de-buffing them is very nice.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Because when you use grass, someone is going to leave their Bulky Grass in to take a super-effective hit.....

Are you kidding? Do you have any idea how often Celebi is treated as a Gyara counter? I'd say after Starmie and Vaporeon, it is the most common switch in to Gyarados. Bounce would destroy celebi. However, that seems all it's good for and then inaccuracy and 2 turns is rather fail. >.>

Bounce/Earthquake would have beautiful coverage though. I still don't see it getting much use though. I mean, how many Fly Salamence do you see, despite Fly being pretty much superior to Bounce?

 

[Thunderhorse]

I hope I'm not the only one excited about Thunderpunch Charizard. I've been waiting for this ever since goddamn Typhlosion got it. I'd have to run some calcs, but I'd like to see bulky waters defend against Bellyzard now :naughty:

Dude, way ahead of you:

Assuming a 252 Adamant +6 Charizard using ThunderPunch

Vs 188/252 Bold Vaporeon: 117% - 138%
OHKO

Vs 212/252 Bold Slowbro: 94% - 110%
May very narrowly survive the OHKO. Stealth Rocks destroy what little chance it has of surviving.

Vs 252/252 Bold Milotic: 113% - 133%
OHKO

Vs 216/176 Adamant Gyarados (+ Intimidate): 241% - 283%
lol OHKO. Normally, Gyarados' Intimidate would be canceled out when it switches in due to Belly Drum, but I added it in just for kicks in case someone wanted to revenge kill Charizard with it. It would do even more if Gyara was switched in as a direct counter. Not even the Electric reduction berry would help it out should someone be crazy enough to use it.

Vs 252/252 Impish Swampert: 0% - 0%
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Vs 252/252 Bold Suicune: 86% - 102%
It's possible! It's not good...but it's possible! Best to get a bit of damage on this thing. But how bout...

Vs 4/0 Timid/Modest LO Suicune: 139% - 163%
...that new and popular LO Cune set that's been going around? You'll beat that just fine. Just pray it is actually that set, or rough it up a bit before you bring Zard out

Anything else is either faster (Starmie) or would die to EQ anyway (Tentacruel)

Who do you think I am?

 

[Tytus]

Are you kidding? Do you have any idea how often Celebi is treated as a Gyara counter? I'd say after Starmie and Vaporeon, it is the most common switch in to Gyarados. Bounce would destroy celebi. However, that seems all it's good for and then inaccuracy and 2 turns is rather fail. >.>

Bounce/Earthquake would have beautiful coverage though. I still don't see it getting much use though. I mean, how many Fly Salamence do you see, despite Fly being pretty much superior to Bounce?

I think that was a typo and he meant:
"Because when you use [Bounce], someone is going to leave their Bulky Grass in to take a super-effective hit....."
Meaning what retard brings a Celebi in, sees Gyara's first turn of Bounce, then leaves it in to take the hit the next turn.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Oh well yeah. You would definitely pull Celebi's ass out of there before taking the hit. But if you think about it, what are you planning to switch in after? There aren't many pokemon who both can shrug off Gyarados' bounce and want to fight a gyarados after that. Best option I can think of is Magnezone, but seeing as Bounce would likely be paired with Earthquake . . . Oh, Zapdos seems like a perfect Bounce-Gyarados counter. Unless it gets paralyzed and you find out Gyara has Stone Edge. Seriously, I've seen Zapdos switch into Stone Edge too many times. It's always fun to see. xD But honestly Gyara can't carry everything. Earthquake has the best coverage with bounce, but without waterfall you can't beat tyranitar, and without stone edge you can't touch zapdos (or Salamence to a lesser extent). Foregoing taunt/DD is sad. Actually without taunt you can't stop Bronzong from screwing you. hmm . . . well, no 1 pokemon can do everything anyway.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Waterfall hits 20% harder on Ttar, but not much more. I suppose EQ/SE/Bounce/DD could work, given how good an offensive combination Rock-Ground is.

It's kinda like putting Fly on Bellyzard. You Fly on their bulky water, then what? Nothing likes taking a +6 STAB Fly, no matter what. It basically turns into a game of "What do you want to die?"

 

[Chou Toshio]

The difference between 120 and 100 base power does not amount to a 20 percent difference in damage, especially with Super Effective involved. We're talking about getting hit by a 200 base power move v. a 240 base power move-- that's big.

I wouldn't say Bounce on Gyara and Fly on Bellyzard are very comparable-- Gyara's power is no where near there.

 

[gorm]

eh superpower/outrage/fire punch/aqua tail cbdragonite seems cool :D

beats everything not named cress ;D

 

[ShinyElite]

My apologies if this has been asked/the data is somewhere,
but have we tested Rhyperior yet? It'd be awesome if it got the Punches, I'm interested in taking the Rock Polish set for a spin and Ice Punch would have more power than Ice Fang.

 

[RBG]

Check the stickied Move Tutor Research Thread

Anyone else find it funny that baby forms can learn Uproar but their evolved forms can't?

 

[ShinyElite]

Check the stickied Move Tutor Research Thread

Anyone else find it funny that baby forms can learn Uproar but their evolved forms can't?

Oh, I completely overlooked it.... sorry. I kept checking the first post of this thread for info.
Thank you

 

[Syberia]

eh superpower/outrage/fire punch/aqua tail cbdragonite seems cool :D

beats everything not named cress ;D

If Garchomp's CB Outrage was a 2HKO on Cress, and Dragonite has more attack than Garchomp, then it can indeed beat Cress.

 

[Tytus]

Check the stickied Move Tutor Research Thread

Anyone else find it funny that baby forms can learn Uproar but their evolved forms can't?

Makes sense to me, haha. Baby Pokemon have hissy fits too I guess.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

The difference between 120 and 100 base power does not amount to a 20 percent difference in damage, especially with Super Effective involved. We're talking about getting hit by a 200 base power move v. a 240 base power move-- that's big.

20% is 20%, since both numbers get the super-effective "bonus". Unless one of the random rounding parts of the damage formula affects this, the percentage difference should be the same, super effective or not. Percentage is usually more useful when talking about damage calculations in Pokemon anyhow.

 

[gorm]

The difference between 120 and 100 base power does not amount to a 20 percent difference in damage, especially with Super Effective involved. We're talking about getting hit by a 200 base power move v. a 240 base power move-- that's big.

have you ever seen the damage formula