Other Pokemon: Smogon Version OU [Route 4]

[Chou Toshio]

Heyo, I'm kinda on break from Smogon atm, but I just wanted to say I vote normal. I dislike rock because I want the rock gym to be a sand team and it is far too early for sand storm. Normal is good because we got happiny(wall), bunnelby (sweep who may or may not be broken atm, but if the player can use it, so can the player's enemies!). Now we just need a special attacker (proygon?) and something to make the team not so timburr weak.

I think the early game should be about teaching good basic team comp, and normal types happen to be versatile enough to provide that. They are also relatively not OP.

Hey all, this post is not me putting forth my opinion on which type it should be (I personally will stay out of this one and just tally), but I do want to say I do not think it's too early for a sand storm team, or anything really. I believe in a format where we give the player a lot of good options...

But that means the main battles (especially gym leaders and E4) need to be that much harder!

Something like Slack Off Hippo, Lairon + Head Smash + Thunderbolt, Swords Dance Aqua Jet Kabuto, Eviolite, Leftover, CB, I'd be all for it. Even if we give the players tools giving them the chance to win, the expectation should be that without extra prep (even in hours of grinding), they should expect to lose, at least a few times.

 

[Yayz]

I'm gonna list a few pros and cons with that idea.

Pros:

• The player knows exactly what they're in for with this game. They're not gonna be able to breeze through it effortlessly like other games.
• The player gets a taste of a well-built competitive team early in the game. Learning early is good.
• It's more fun for us to be able to do this. :3

Cons:

• Losing on the first gym is quite discouraging. "If I lose this early, where it's supposed to be easy, I must suck then. I give up" they might say. This would completely go against what we're trying to do: learn them good pokaymans.
• That's the only con I can think of, but it strikes me as pretty big.

We're gearing this game towards players who know almost nothing about competitive Pokemon (correct me if I'm wrong). Punishing them early seems like the wrong approach, but that's my opinion. Thoughts?

 

[Darth Manaphy]

I'm gonna list a few pros and cons with that idea.

Pros:

• The player knows exactly what they're in for with this game. They're not gonna be able to breeze through it effortlessly like other games.
• The player gets a taste of a well-built competitive team early in the game. Learning early is good.
• It's more fun for us to be able to do this. :3

Cons:

• Losing on the first gym is quite discouraging. "If I lose this early, where it's supposed to be easy, I must suck then. I give up" they might say. This would completely go against what we're trying to do: learn them good pokaymans.
• That's the only con I can think of, but it strikes me as pretty big.

We're gearing this game towards players who know almost nothing about competitive Pokemon (correct me if I'm wrong). Punishing them early seems like the wrong approach, but that's my opinion. Thoughts?

Maybe, if we end up going this path, we could introduce the idea slowly via the trainers in the gym. Like, for instance, each trainer will have one portion of the gym leader's strategy and they'll explicitly mention that the gym leader will use their strategy. That way, the player will have to think about what the best strategy for each trainer was and how to combine that into a coherent idea for fighting the gym leader. I would think more now but I have to head off to something else, but I would like to throw the idea out there

 

[SparksBlade]

i agree with Yayz that we shouldn't make the first team completely OU viable i.e. we should tone it down so that it's not impossible to someone who just completed XY..."but i have grass and water types against a rock gym(or timburr and gollett against normal) how can i lose). I think that we should emphasize somewhere that gym teams aren't monotype and that they try cover the weakness

 

[Chou Toshio]

I'm gonna list a few pros and cons with that idea.

Pros:

• The player knows exactly what they're in for with this game. They're not gonna be able to breeze through it effortlessly like other games.
• The player gets a taste of a well-built competitive team early in the game. Learning early is good.
• It's more fun for us to be able to do this. :3

Cons:

• Losing on the first gym is quite discouraging. "If I lose this early, where it's supposed to be easy, I must suck then. I give up" they might say. This would completely go against what we're trying to do: learn them good pokaymans.
• That's the only con I can think of, but it strikes me as pretty big.

We're gearing this game towards players who know almost nothing about competitive Pokemon (correct me if I'm wrong). Punishing them early seems like the wrong approach, but that's my opinion. Thoughts?

I never said this game was for beginners. I never said this game is meant to raise competitive players.

This is Pokemon, the Smogon Version.

At Smogon, we give you a lot of great resources (as the game has and will continue to do), but battle at the highest level of battle. We're not here to nurture mediocrity-- if a player would get discouraged at this level, then they weren't meant to be a competitive player. We're here to raise the best. Insanely strong gym leaders are the natural fit.

Gradual introductions of conservatively useful mons and weaker battles is a game that tests your skill in RPGs. A game with lots of great team options and extremely strong gym leaders is a game that tests you as a battler.

Just remember that every game super amps up the gym leaders. The fact that they're actually weak is a joke. We're just making them actually live up to the hype-- as role models of competitive battlers.

 

[Millky95]

I do think the gym leaders (as well as other major characters) should introduce or really highlight important aspects of competitive battling such as weather, hazard+phazing tactics, stall etc. They should be harder than basically everyone else

 

[UUisthebest]

The gym leaders shouldn't be impossible. You are going to have a team with level 15-20ish pokemon with moves like tackle, ember, and peck. Giving the gym leaders fully evolved forms of OU and UU mons with good moves and little cup ubers with strong items is just going to get the player destroyed unless they grind out ten levels or something dumb.

 

[WebBowser]

I never, never said that the first gym leader should be easy. I just said that the first gym leader should have a basic, yet solid team. No gimmicks or advanced strategies, just a defensive core, bulky bruiser, fast sweeper, and some 6th mon. I'll take a stab at what I think the gym leader should look like.

Hide

Azumarill @ Oran Berry
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 20
Happiness: 170
EVs: 128 HP / 128 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Aqua Tail

Porygon @ Pecha Berry
Ability: Analytic
Level: 20
EVs: 128 HP / 128 SpA
Modest Nature
- Psybeam
- Recover
- Swift
- Shock Wave

Happiny @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 20
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Toxic
- Heal Bell
- Counter

Diggersby @ Oran Berry
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 20
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Take Down
- Swords Dance
- Quick Attack
- Bulldoze

Clefairy @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 20
EVs: 128 HP / 128 SpD
Calm Nature
- Disarming Voice
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss

Eevee @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 20
Happiness: 170
EVs: 236 HP / 20 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Bite
- Quick Attack
- Wish

I feel like that should be plenty challenging enough for the first gym, no? The numbers and moves may need some tweaking, but I like this team.

 

[Yayz]

I never, never said that the first gym leader should be easy. I just said that the first gym leader should have a basic, yet solid team. No gimmicks or advanced strategies, just a defensive core, bulky bruiser, fast sweeper, and some 6th mon. I'll take a stab at what I think the gym leader should look like.

Hide

Azumarill @ Oran Berry
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 20
Happiness: 170
EVs: 128 HP / 128 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Aqua Tail

Porygon @ Pecha Berry
Ability: Analytic
Level: 20
EVs: 128 HP / 128 SpA
Modest Nature
- Psybeam
- Recover
- Swift
- Shock Wave

Happiny @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 20
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Toxic
- Heal Bell
- Counter

Diggersby @ Oran Berry
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 20
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Take Down
- Swords Dance
- Quick Attack
- Bulldoze

Clefairy @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 20
EVs: 128 HP / 128 SpD
Calm Nature
- Disarming Voice
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss

Eevee @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 20
Happiness: 170
EVs: 236 HP / 20 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Bite
- Quick Attack
- Wish

I feel like that should be plenty challenging enough for the first gym, no? The numbers and moves may need some tweaking, but I like this team.

Looks fine, but remember we're only voting on type for the moment!

 

[Chou Toshio]

The gym leaders shouldn't be impossible. You are going to have a team with level 15-20ish pokemon with moves like tackle, ember, and peck. Giving the gym leaders fully evolved forms of OU and UU mons with good moves and little cup ubers with strong items is just going to get the player destroyed unless they grind out ten levels or something dumb.

No one said fully evolved, but this first gym can have 1 or 2 semi-evolved (2nd formes) and really good movepools. Weaker fully evolved mons like Shuckle should be fine too.

WebBowser I was pointing out that a sand team would be totally fine for the above reason. The gym leader will have advantage going far beyond a bit of sand.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

The whole thing of gyms is also to prepare the trainers for the league. (If you watched the Origins special, it was suggested that the Gym Leaders keep different rosters for different experienced trainers. So, in fact, the Gym Leaders, in the games, are letting you win compared to them using their main team)

It's fine for them to be ridiculously strong, but we should prepare the players for the gym match. That's why I believe we should introduce the strategies the gym leader uses in the minion trainers before you fight him so that way no one is confused about the total strategy (I'm trying to go for the idea that the gyms teach competitive battling to players more than willing to learn, aka newbies to Smogon).

For instance, if we WERE to go for Rock, we could have one trainer who's strategy is hazard control (putting up Stealth Rock and Rapid Spinning them away) and like another trainer that uses a sandstorm team (for that battle, Hippototas SHOULDN'T have Smooth Rock so the player has an extra win condition). So, that way, the player will be well aware of both hazards (which none of the trainers before use) and weather (which none of the trainers use before as well) and then the Gym Leader combines both of them.

 

[Explorer]

I would vote Grass but basically then you have a Servine Foongus, a Phantump, and 4 Ferroseed. Thus I vote for a Rock Gym, preferably with Sandstorms and a SR user.

 

[Salemance]

Ight i'll be calling type voting tomorrow morning (if that be alright with Cho cause I think the allotted time has been sufficient). Continue discussing type if you wish or what the rival is doing in the town, what story progress is going on, or what color pants the gym guy is wearing. Just have at it yall. :D

 

[Millky95]

Should we have someone blocking off the exit to this town ala gen 1? maybe the Rival saying "I'm not letting you go until we battle! Oh wait- No badges? You ain't worth my time"

 

[SparksBlade]

I like milky's idea, though I won't actually back it 'cos I don't wanna participate in these relatively big discussions. I think milky should think beforehand of the future of this gym, like the background of the leader and stuff

 

[Prof. Almeida]

I found this so amazing. Answering here to subscribe to the thread, and get the game when it's on =D

 

[Salemance]

The Gym's Type has been decided!

With a score of 3 to Rock, 4 Normal, 1 Grass, 2 Poison, and 1 Dark--

Normal is the type we will be utilizing for the first gym of the SmogSmog region!



...........Now on to the other sections of discussion :D

 

[Chou Toshio]

Alright, so taking General Gym a Leader designs-- what we want is:

-Gym Leader Name (based off a top player in Smogon who would work well as a first leader, and works with normal)
-list of 6 Pokemon (no sets)*
-any fun character details like speech or storyline

*4 normal and/or has a normal type in evolution line somewhere, and 2 non-normal support. Please no fully evolved B-S ranked mons though.

Aside from gym leader nominations, we also need gym trainer designs, and TOWN storyline (though I am fine with this being like pewter city where you just show up, beat the first gym leader and move on).

 

[Darth Manaphy]

Since I'm not too familiar with the top players here I'll just suggest 6 Pokemon (Like I did earlier):

Porygon, Happiny, Smeargle, Bunnelby, Fletchling, and Marill

ALL 6 of them are either Normal or evolve from Normal types. Smeargle can provide Stealth Rock support and, since we're at a low level with non-fully-evolved Pokemon, we can even give it a powerful attacking move (Boomburst Smeargle anyone?) if we don't want to try to break it with the fast Spore (seriously, most of our Pokemon aren't going to be fast enough to overcome Smeargle). Happiny and Porygon are bulk with Porygon being a good special attacker too. Bunnelby is for power. Fletchling is another powerhouse. Marill would be great against fire types, rock types, ground types, steel types (if we give it Superpower). It's something at least.

I'll come up with more for the rest of the story later.

 

[Salemance]

Someone had suggested have the rival stop you from leaving the town, but id like to add some mons to the team :D

NPC Proposal
Rival 1 (The one who has the type strong v you)

Opening if no badge: Guess I should ask if you want to battle so we can compare the power of Badge holders huh? *sees you have non* WHA?! *takes you over to the gym* Don't ask, just go in. Some Gym Guy will be in shortly to tell ya what to do. Just come back to me when ya get it.

Opening if Badge: Guess I should ask if you want to battle so we can compare the power of Badge holders huh? Lets have at it!

Team:
Starter opposite of you (listing all available options for that is a hell of a lot.......)

Slowpoke LvL 23
-Headbutt
-Disable
-Water Gun
-Confusion

Tangela LvL 23
-Mega Drain
-Poison Powder
-Growth
-Bind

Larvesta
-Ember
-String Shot
-Leech Life
-Take Down

NOTE! These three are all just there for a basi F/W/G core, and one will be replaced by the starter as to not over crowd one type. Such as if Greninja was picked, Slowpoke would not be seen.

Honedge


In Battle Quote: A lot of power you got there, but it isn't enough to quell me!

Losing quite: ..........or maybe it was.

Victory Quote: Go do more research before ya take another crack at me.

The rival accepts your power as you defeat them, and heads off into the direction of the next route taunting ya with it wont be the same strategy next time ya see em.




I'll be polishing that up a bit later (as I sorta am stretched for time atm) and will just leave with this: Honedge was added as to give the rival an advantage over the first gym in theory (most gyms will often find their bane available in some nearby grass or trade such as Mankey for Brock or Throh/Sawk for that one lady) and was wondering if we would like to include something like that in the town as well. I'm also still juggling the team a little too to make it not seem like a big f u to the guys who start with Bulbasaur so to be expanded on later. :D

 

[Hclegend]

First Gym Leader Speech Type Thing
"Yeah I'm THE Normal type Gym Leader!
What's a Cheren?"
Yes it's 2 lines of dialogue, but I think it'd be good SOMEWHERE. I'm not saying we should exaggerate this gym leader too much, just exaggerate them a bit.
Also, I have a team prepared:
Starly, Bunnelby, Fletchling(?), Happiny (For stall), Something that resists Fighting (for a wild card) and.... Er... Marill?(ANOTHER WILD CARD BECAUSE FUCK ORIGANALITY ^^)
Note: I'm mostly supporting these. Just sayin :P

 

[thdhted]

alright, I have a small question, may we suggest NPCs/suggestions for the first town now? Or should I wait until we've finished discussing the gym? (I've got several ideas bouncing around in my head and REALLY want to share them, but I don't want to interfere with gym discussion)

 

[Slashari]

Just so you guys know, Happiny has no form of recovery besides Rest and is kind of shit in general... I feel that another Pokemon would create more of a challenge and make the battle more fun, as Happiny is basically useless.

 

[Salemance]

alright, I have a small question, may we suggest NPCs/suggestions for the first town now? Or should I wait until we've finished discussing the gym? (I've got several ideas bouncing around in my head and REALLY want to share them, but I don't want to interfere with gym discussion)

You can suggest what you feel man. Just we are presenting stuff that is required to be discussed now but you are free to offer more if you so wish :D

 

[Fourth Inversion]

For the gym leader, Fletchinder (signature pokemon), Ditto, Smeargle, Porygon, Gastly, Wobbuffet. I'm not sure who to suggest as the leader though, which would influence the introduction they give.