Other Pokemon: Smogon Version OU [Route 4]

[WebBowser]

Too strong for this stage of the game. TLS is not only known for breaking rules, but also for using crappy unviable Pokemon. The player should get used to effortlessly beating the crap out of TLS grunts before having a fight with one that is an actual challenge.

Otherwise lots of good storyline stuff. I would like this idea if the bidoof didn't have Moody (and the grunt was wondering why his bidoof couldn't win).

Imma run some calcs real quick just to see what happens. If we need to, we can lower the level or remove rollout or something, but I don't see a moody mon 6-0ing the trainer just by virtue of moody. I'm going to assume that the trainer has 6 level 12s by the time he hits the first TLS grunt.

Hide

0+ SpA level 12 Charmander ember vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD level 13 Bidoof: 9-12 (21.4 - 28.5%) -- 12.7% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Bidoof level 13 Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def level 12 Charmander: 10-13 (28.5 - 37.1%) -- 48.9% chance to 3HKO

Frick, they buffed tackle, but not the rest of the plethora of 40 BP moves out there? Gdi trollfreak, way to make starter pokemon flat out worse then regional rodents for the first 20-30 levels

0 Atk level 13 Bidoof Rollout(30 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def level 5 Golett: 3-4 (13.6 - 18.1%) -- possible 6HKO
0 Atk level 13 Bidoof Rollout(60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def level 5 Golett: 7-8 (31.8 - 36.3%) -- 75.6% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk level 13 Bidoof Rollout(120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def level 5 Golett: 13-16 (59 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Well, at least golette can buy a couple of turns

Hmmm, lemme try lowering the level a bit, I forgot about the tackle buff actually makes STAB tackle the best move out there at this point.

0+ SpA level 12 Charmander ember vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD level 10 Bidoof: 10-13 (29.4 - 38.2%) -- 84.4% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk level 10 Bidoof Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def level 12 Charmander: 7-10 (20 - 28.5%) -- 81.1% chance to 4HKO
0+ SpA level 12 Charmander ember vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD level 10 Bidoof: 6-7 (17.6 - 20.5%) -- possible 5HKO
+2 0 Atk level 10 Bidoof Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def level 12 Charmander: 15-18 (42.8 - 51.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

Ok, at least now it takes 2 moody boosts in attack before bidoof starts 2 shotting everyone. I think level 10 would be better.

Well, good news is that the player can lead with a mon with toxic (please tell me we're introducing TM toxic in either route two or very shortly into the forest) or lead slowpoke with yawn and then just wail on him while he's helpless. I think the purpose of TLS is to show why we ban this kind of stuff, because it forces you into running stupid crap just to beat it.

 

[Salemance]

Imma run some calcs real quick just to see what happens. If we need to, we can lower the level or remove rollout or something, but I don't see a moody mon 6-0ing the trainer just by virtue of moody. I'm going to assume that the trainer has 6 level 12s by the time he hits the first TLS grunt.

Hide

0+ SpA level 12 Charmander ember vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD level 13 Bidoof: 9-12 (21.4 - 28.5%) -- 12.7% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Bidoof level 13 Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def level 12 Charmander: 10-13 (28.5 - 37.1%) -- 48.9% chance to 3HKO

Frick, they buffed tackle, but not the rest of the plethora of 40 BP moves out there? Gdi trollfreak, way to make starter pokemon flat out worse then regional rodents for the first 20-30 levels

0 Atk level 13 Bidoof Rollout(30 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def level 5 Golett: 3-4 (13.6 - 18.1%) -- possible 6HKO
0 Atk level 13 Bidoof Rollout(60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def level 5 Golett: 7-8 (31.8 - 36.3%) -- 75.6% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk level 13 Bidoof Rollout(120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def level 5 Golett: 13-16 (59 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Well, at least golette can buy a couple of turns

Hmmm, lemme try lowering the level a bit, I forgot about the tackle buff actually makes STAB tackle the best move out there at this point.

0+ SpA level 12 Charmander ember vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD level 10 Bidoof: 10-13 (29.4 - 38.2%) -- 84.4% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk level 10 Bidoof Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def level 12 Charmander: 7-10 (20 - 28.5%) -- 81.1% chance to 4HKO
0+ SpA level 12 Charmander ember vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD level 10 Bidoof: 6-7 (17.6 - 20.5%) -- possible 5HKO
+2 0 Atk level 10 Bidoof Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def level 12 Charmander: 15-18 (42.8 - 51.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

Ok, at least now it takes 2 moody boosts in attack before bidoof starts 2 shotting everyone. I think level 10 would be better.

Well, good news is that the player can lead with a mon with toxic (please tell me we're introducing TM toxic in either route two or very shortly into the forest) or lead slowpoke with yawn and then just wail on him while he's helpless. I think the purpose of TLS is to show why we ban this kind of stuff, because it forces you into running stupid crap just to beat it.

*points to wrap up post above yours*
Hopefully that helps a bit.

I'm still all for using a LS Grunt in this route, just if its able to be defeated im all for it. If Cho approves then it could be alright then but I Still think its a nice way to introduce them at the least.

 

[WebBowser]

*points to wrap up post above yours*
Hopefully that helps a bit.

I'm still all for using a LS Grunt in this route, just if its able to be defeated im all for it. If Cho approves then it could be alright then but I Still think its a nice way to introduce them at the least.

I totally missed that post while writing mine. I really dislike invisible items (talking about TM toxic ofc), especially this early in the game, simply due to the fact they have a good chance of being completely missed. I say we make it visible. Besides that, I do hope Overlord Derp's berry grove idea gets implemented, as I think that's a really cool idea and a great way to introduce the first Gym Leader. Besides that, I'm pretty happy.

Anyway, I think level 10 moody bidoof is 100% manageable. Heck, even level 13 can be beaten with a bit of prep (and we don't mind foddering half the team to it). Between toxic, ferroseed, golette, and yawn slowpoke, the player really should have an answer to him. Yes, TLS grunt has a decent shot of winning the first time simply due to surprise alone, but that's the point of these kind of strats, they take unprepared players by surprise for cheap wins.

 

[Salemance]

I totally missed that post while writing mine. I really dislike invisible items (talking about TM toxic ofc), especially this early in the game, simply due to the fact they have a good chance of being completely missed. I say we make it visible. Besides that, I do hope Overlord Derp's berry grove idea gets implemented, as I think that's a really cool idea and a great way to introduce the first Gym Leader. Besides that, I'm pretty happy.

Anyway, I think level 10 moody bidoof is 100% manageable. Heck, even level 13 can be beaten with a bit of prep (and we don't mind foddering half the team to it). Between toxic, ferroseed, golette, and yawn slowpoke, the player really should have an answer to him. Yes, TLS grunt has a decent shot of winning the first time simply due to surprise alone, but that's the point of these kind of strats, they take unprepared players by surprise for cheap wins.

Forgive me but I had thought he ment introduce her in the Forest........... If I missed that, then i'll address that, but I thought that's what it was geared towards. And idk, I always enjoyed the invisible items but I can change that real fast then.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

I totally missed that post while writing mine. I really dislike invisible items (talking about TM toxic ofc), especially this early in the game, simply due to the fact they have a good chance of being completely missed. I say we make it visible. Besides that, I do hope Overlord Derp's berry grove idea gets implemented, as I think that's a really cool idea and a great way to introduce the first Gym Leader. Besides that, I'm pretty happy.

Anyway, I think level 10 moody bidoof is 100% manageable. Heck, even level 13 can be beaten with a bit of prep (and we don't mind foddering half the team to it). Between toxic, ferroseed, golette, and yawn slowpoke, the player really should have an answer to him. Yes, TLS grunt has a decent shot of winning the first time simply due to surprise alone, but that's the point of these kind of strats, they take unprepared players by surprise for cheap wins.

Just don't make it level 13 and we can easily have it walled by our Golett. If we do end up with Ferroseed, it'll be able to damage it just with Iron Barbs. Toxic would be a fine way to deal with it too.

Maybe, we can have an NPC that warns the trainer. Maybe he'll say stop the trainer and say something like:

"Watch out, trainer! There's a weird looking trainer up there with a really weird Bidoof. Every turn one of its stats increase and another decreases! He beat me because his Bidoof's attack and then speed increased and KO'd my Pokemon! He beat another trainer because its defenses boosted to the point where the trainer couldn't pierce them! However, one of my friends passed through, because the Bidoof's defense weakened at just the right point while increasing its special attack. It's almost as if the weird trainer's trying to win exclusively on lucky stat increases!"

Then, if you talk to him again, he'll say something like.

"That weird trainer doesn't seem like he can heal any HP or statuses and his Bidoof only knows Normal typed moves. If only I had a way to abuse that!"

 

[WebBowser]

Mew King Yeah, we might want to have an NPC warn the player. I think we should have him drop all the needed info in one go though, as NPCs that say something new after you talk to them once are exceptionally rare in Pokemon. Alternatively, we could have Youngster Jack from page 24 say something like "toxic is a great way to stop slower setup sweepers like curse slowpoke from getting out of hand."

Salemance If it were something that wasn't absolutely essential like a rare candy, a rare berry, or darn near anything other then TM Toxic, I'd be fine with it, but toxic is a staple move in any stall team due to it's distribution and it's unique ability to force mons to not stay in more then 2 or 3 turns.

You know, speaking of the youngster, now's a good time to propose him.

NPC proposal

Youngster Jack

Happiny
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 10
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Toxic
- Charm

Chespin @ Oran Berry
Ability: Bulletproof
Level: 10
Adamant Nature
- Tackle
- Vine Whip
- Rollout

Slowpoke @ Oran Berry
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 10
Brave Nature
- Yawn
- Water Gun
- Tackle

Venipede
Ability: Speed Boost
Level: 10
Adamant Nature
- Defense Curl
- Rollout


Pre-battle quote: Once I weaken your team, you will not be able to stop my sweep!
Loss quote: You should have let me weaken you more
Post-battle quote: If all your opponents pokemon are weak and you have a fast, strong mon, you basically win the battle, so make sure you keep your team healthy!

Might edit this a little bit later if these guys get any good level up moves by level 10.

*edit*

Changed the movesets to things that made more sense for level 10 mons. This team is a whee bit hard walled by ferroseed, but I'm not super worried about that (future dungeons will need to account for both golett and ferroseed, what a pain... ferro is still worth it tho).

Also, someone propose Timburr for this forest to give not-stall teams a fighting chance against ferro and to give players something that's not a water or grass type to play with (seriously, we have like half of our mons so far are either a grass type or a water type). Timburr even makes sense for the area, because, ya know, he's carrying a piece of timber, which is found in forests, it's a pun, geddit? I'd do it myself, but I can only propose one thing per post and I've been posting a lot today already...

 

[Salemance]

Gonna re-propose my Pinsir trainer here as I forgot it wasn't the forest myself.

NPC Proposal
Bug King Johnny
Self proclaimed bug king with normal bug catcher design except with a golden bug catcher hat!

Pokemon: Pinsir and Venipede

Pre-Battle Quote: my subjects, fight for your king!

Losing quote: My men.....they've fallen.

After losing he starts a discussion with ya over how he feels as if he isn't treating his people well enough. He feels as if he needs to reconnect with them all and asks if you wouldn't mind taking one of his men with him. If no, he says he understands and leaves. If yes, he will hand over his Pinsir to you. After doing so he will ask to fight you and him again once you've gotten his old subject greater power. Then he leaves.

Basically a guy to hand out a Pinsir, and a rematch waiting once you unlock Pinsir's mega stone.if no trade is thought needed, he can just be trainer.

Some of yall said don't let him hand out Pinsir and if that's still the general opinion (and if the guy makes the cut) I'l edit it out. In the meantime, here's to more discussion.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I totally missed that post while writing mine. I really dislike invisible items (talking about TM toxic ofc), especially this early in the game, simply due to the fact they have a good chance of being completely missed. I say we make it visible. Besides that, I do hope Overlord Derp's berry grove idea gets implemented, as I think that's a really cool idea and a great way to introduce the first Gym Leader. Besides that, I'm pretty happy.

Anyway, I think level 10 moody bidoof is 100% manageable. Heck, even level 13 can be beaten with a bit of prep (and we don't mind foddering half the team to it). Between toxic, ferroseed, golette, and yawn slowpoke, the player really should have an answer to him. Yes, TLS grunt has a decent shot of winning the first time simply due to surprise alone, but that's the point of these kind of strats, they take unprepared players by surprise for cheap wins.

Not a point of it being manageable or not. The point is that players should steam roll LS members at first (who should come across as being shitty). As I said, I'd be all for this idea if the bidoof didn't have moody. Something like:

Grunt: What the heck!? The higher ups said bidoof could beat anything as long as I spammed protect! What am I doing wrong????


I won't approve of an LS grunt having ANY chance to even KO one of the player's mons, nvm actually having a slim shot of winning. Not at this point anyway.

 

[WebBowser]

Not a point of it being manageable or not. The point is that players should steam roll LS members at first (who should come across as being shitty). As I said, I'd be all for this idea if the bidoof didn't have moody. Something like:

Grunt: What the heck!? The higher ups said bidoof could beat anything as long as I spammed protect! What am I doing wrong????


I won't approve of an LS grunt having ANY chance to even KO one of the player's mons, nvm actually having a slim shot of winning. Not at this point anyway.

uhhhhh....

0 SpA level 10 Azurill Bubble vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bidoof: 4-5 (11.7 - 14.7%) -- possible 7HKO
0 Atk level 10 Bidoof Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azurill: 9-12 (27.2 - 36.3%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO

Bidoof op, nerf STAB tackle

More seriously though, if we really want the beginning grunts to be pushovers, then so be it. I just figured moody bidoof would make sense at this point because it allows us to illustrate stupid banned **** without being overwhelmingly op, which I figured was the point of TLS. TLS is going to score some cheap wins unless the player is a clairvoyant or has a guide to this game due to the very nature of what they represent (especially once BP gets involved), so I see nothing wrong with introducing a moody bidoof at this point as long as it's actually manageable. At level 10 (give or take a level) I believe it in fact is, especially once the player knows what's actually coming.

That being said, you obviously get the final say in this, I'm just stating how I feel on the matter.

 

[FierceDeity1]

I actually think that a Moody Bidoof woul not be overpowered at this point. Remember, the chances of getting an attack boost from moody is like 1in 8. While it is true that it can potentially become an extreme threat, it is not gonna happen to everyone. I imagine most people will steamroll right through him with repeated assaults. However, I may suggest removing Protect. I understand that is the whole gimmick, but first off, we probably can't OHKO with anything, so it will still get aboost turn one, and second, we can have this grunt return later with a vengeance and a more fleshed-out 'strategy' with Protect.

Also, if the pIayer does cry about getting destroyed by a +6 evasion Bidoof, then I think we can use this as an introduction to the concept of 'uncompetitiveness' and why there are strict rules and bans placed upon things deemed uncompetitive all throughout SmogSmog.

 

[JebusChrist]

I think the player definitely should have some trouble with the earlier LuckSack grunts. They should be able to win most of the time, but we should show the player why things are banned (Moody being obviously luck-based) instead of the player always stomping them and wondering why these strategies are banned if they aren't at all effective

 

[Chou Toshio]

They're going to get actually annoying later (early-mid game we can start mixing in more double team, bulky mons with OHKO moves, moody bidoof/bibarrel). Also remember this is still super early in the game (despite the pace the thread moves). In RBY for instance, we're still in Viridian forest-- still a whole route and gym away from the first rocket grunt.

Remember LS is not only there to show why banned strategies are banned, but also why unviable mons suck--

With low-rank grunts reflecting mostly the later (unviable mons)

And more advanced LSers (later grunts and admins) representing the former (übers and banned strategies).

The final battles with team LS admins will be where broken crap reaches they're pinnacle (though still, not like a perfected Übers team that would stomp anything the player could bring). There's still lots and lots of opportunity ahead to annoy the crap out of the player.


Also, you could just go back to the OP and READ the description of team LS to understand why I'm saying what I'm saying.


Also as long as we put the return or frustration TM in this forest somewhere, anything should stomp bidoof.

 

[WebBowser]

FierceDeity1 Yeah, I can see some merit in removing protect, as stalling for turns makes bidoof more consistent, and we would rather not have that. I'm all for it.

Chou Toshio I second the introduction of return regardless of where we go with the whole bidoof thing. Frustration is going to be outclassed by return really fast though, due to 70 base happiness (break even is at 128) and the fact that happiness goes up by walking of all things. Good news is that return will allow huge power azurill to beat bidoof assuming the trainer hasn't been sucking with it.

Anyway, time for Pokemon Proposal.

Pokemon Proposal
Forest
Timburr
Level 7-8
Reasoning: Conkeldurr is the OU bulky fighting type, and Timburr's level up movepool isn't bad either. Also, it gives the player something that isn't a water or grass type, which we have been throwing a lot of at the player for some odd reason. Lastly, it grabs low kick at level 12, which will help against ferroseed (I do have to wonder about sticking ferroseed in an environment where it resists darn near every available move so far except for charmander's ember). And it holds a piece of timber, which can be found in the forest, and it's, like, his name, it's a pun, see?

 

[Salemance]

Turtleye I hate to ask, but hows the maps looking?

 

[SparksBlade]

Chou Toshio pls update the op to include town 2 as completed. Also, sorry if it's too late, but I just remembered that the first route(mostly) has a guy who gives us a free potion and the tells us of the pokemart, and I think we should have him as well

 

[Fourth Inversion]

I think we need to continually have the enemy trainers one step ahead of the player. This is obviously going to come into play later, with Team Lucksack pulling out Swagger, breaking Sleep Clause, facing Ubers, etc., etc., but at this stage of the game, the player has access to far more (and far better, especially if we accept the current proposals for the Forest) pokemon than they'd have in a normal pokemon game, and it's likely to be too easy. I've tried to make a trainer proposal by browsing through the level up movepools, but Golett and Ferroseed collectively wall most of the pokemon at level 10, as most either have only normal type moves, or a bunch of resisted contact moves. I'm not sure how well this proposal fits from a flavour perspective, but I'm going to include some pokemon that the player might not get access to for a while, along with some of the weakest TMs, HMs and Egg moves as coverage moves.

Trainer Proposal:

Youngster Ralph

Pre-battle: My older brother bred me some pokemon, and told me that they each have a special move that they can only learn through breeding. I'm new to battling, but I'm going to take you down!

Loss: But... well, you're older than me, so that's my excuse for losing!

Post-battle: Alright! I'm going to go in search of some new wild pokemon, so I can start breeding my own team.

Chimchar
Ability: Blaze
Level: 9
Naughty Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Double Kick
- Ember
- Taunt

Deino
Ability: Hustle
Level: 9
Naive Nature
- Focus Energy
- Bite
- Fire Fang

Ferroseed
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 9
Impish Nature
- Curse
- Leech Seed
- Rollout

Starly
Ability: Keen Eye
Level: 10
Adamant Nature
- Quick Attack
- Wing Attack
- Pursuit

 

[WebBowser]

Fourth Inversion Golette is fine because of the plethora of water and grass types we have already introduced, any team hardwalled by it at this point is simply a poorly made team. On the other hand, I have worried a fair bit about ferroseed. Timburr alone really isn't going to fix matters, I think we may need to axe ferroseed for the time being until some fire types get introduced (fletchling does not count). As for your team, I think introducing a dragon with such a powerful ability (don't underestimate hustle) this early is a bit of a bad idea. Wing Attack Starly may or may not be a bit much but besides that the team looks fine.

 

[dwarfstar]

WebBowser It bears mentioning that Starly gets Wing Attack at LV9, so avoiding Wing Attack means decreasing Starly's level or removing it entirely.

 

[WebBowser]

WebBowser It bears mentioning that Starly gets Wing Attack at LV9, so avoiding Wing Attack means decreasing Starly's level or removing it entirely.

That it does, that it does (stupid GF and their power creep). Wing attack Starly is not going to be sweeping teams by itself, it is true, but outside of ferroseed (whom I am becoming increasingly convinced should not even be in this forest), Starly can pretty much 1v1 any other mon obtainable at this point. This alone isn't enough to break a pokemon, but when combined with 3 other respectable teammates, it could possibly be too much. I personally am more worried about dienos then starly just because dienos has better typing, more power courtesy of it's ability, and more bulk.

TL;DR Starly alone is not broken, but it is a major threat at this point in the game due to having the strongest STAB available to anything at this point. The team as a whole is probably a bit too strong for anything less then the rival trainer. I personally suggest subbing out dienos before reexamining starly.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

I just want to point out one thing. In both BW and XY, Ferroseed are found in caves (usually dropping down or something). Why don't we save Ferroseed then for the first cave? It'll be like our version of Zubat

 

[Fourth Inversion]

Fourth Inversion Golette is fine because of the plethora of water and grass types we have already introduced, any team hardwalled by it at this point is simply a poorly made team. On the other hand, I have worried a fair bit about ferroseed. Timburr alone really isn't going to fix matters, I think we may need to axe ferroseed for the time being until some fire types get introduced (fletchling does not count). As for your team, I think introducing a dragon with such a powerful ability (don't underestimate hustle) this early is a bit of a bad idea. Wing Attack Starly may or may not be a bit much but besides that the team looks fine.

Regarding the player having a Golett, what I meant is that if we stick purely to level up movepools, several pokemon we could potentially give to a trainer, such as Timburr aren't going to be an option, as Timburr's movepool only consists of Normal and Fighting type attacks until it learns Rock Throw at Level 15. The same goes for Eevee, Riolu, Cleffa, and probably a few other pokemon too.
I see your point about Deino. It might be better to give it to save it for the first gym, or something like that.
Azurill
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 10
Adamant Nature
- Bubble
- Charm
- Slam
might be a possible replacement?

Incidentally, if we really want to break the game, we can give an enemy trainer in the forest a Gible. It learns Dragon Rage at level 7...

 

[Salemance]

I just want to point out one thing. In both BW and XY, Ferroseed are found in caves (usually dropping down or something). Why don't we save Ferroseed then for the first cave? It'll be like our version of Zubat

...........A Zubat that swaps confusion out with just tanking hits? That's just evil. I like it.

 

[WebBowser]

I just want to point out one thing. In both BW and XY, Ferroseed are found in caves (usually dropping down or something). Why don't we save Ferroseed then for the first cave? It'll be like our version of Zubat

Just make sure we give the player something that is actually capable of killing it. I remember starting out in gen 5 being quite frustrated with the number of things that couldn't kill a ferro (on my first team, I had exactly one mon that could kill ferro, infernape, and I didn't know about mixnape either).

Fourth Inversion Remember, we are assuming intelligent ai capable of recognizing bad matchups and switching. Having one mon hardwalled by golette isn't a big deal because you can easily swap something into it and wreck its face. Having an entire team hardwalled by gollette, on the other hand, is a massive no no. The azurill should be a fine replacement for Deino.

*edit*

Also, Dieno has dragon rage as a starting move, so it breaks the game about as hard as gible would.

 

[Turtleye]

Turtleye I hate to ask, but hows the maps looking?

Sorry, Busy and lazy. I have Redarulse almost finished (omg it takes so long for some reaosn T_T), but I assume the not-forest part of route 2 is quite short so that won't take as long.

But I'm mostly lazy and the Minecraft Build Team I'm part of has been revived

Edit: Turbo mode on

Redarulse

Also I should probably participate to the discussion


I dislike that Ferrothorn is available at this point in the game already, since a player can only hit it if it has choosen Charmander or if there is some Fighting Type available, but imo the fact that we need Fighting Type to justify the introduction of Ferrothorn is something that makes me dislike Ferro this early. Besides that, as Mew King said, they usually live in caves and such (Refer to my habitat list o3o).

Also we need to be introducing some Non-Flying/Grass/Water/Bug types since thats all the player can get right now.


Pokemons aside, Chou Toshio , how many Items should be located in the Forest, and if so, which ones (I think some free Pokeballs would be useful)

I already know my post-forest nomination :]

 

[Chou Toshio]

Feel free to suggest any items.

Btw, I really like tangela and am personally fine with it being here, but I just wanted to point out that this thing does have 100 base spA (same as Starmie) and a medium fast growth rate-- it's stronger and grows up faster than the starters and small birds. Not to mention 115 def, and coming with Sleep Powder, ingrain and regenerator. Wooaaah. Sure it has to make to with Absorb (which it only gets at level 10) but still plenty strong (and unkillable), and will get Mega Drain early enough.

I guess Tangela wrecking or not really depends on when TMs like Sludge Bomb and Shock Wave are made available. In the 30's, Giga Drain + Ancient Power looks pretty impressive