-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokemon you gave TOO MUCH credit...
- Thread starter Crash Hard
- Start date
Regice has STAB Ice Beam and significantly better SpA to Boltbeam over Blissey. It's outclassed by Blissey purely as a Special wall but Regice can fire back at its enemies fairly hard while still being quite serviceable at eating Special attacks (kinda like Gallade with less [Sp]Atk and more SpD). It still takes physical hits better, too.
As for Slowbro, the way most people use it is merely as an overspecialized Gyarados counter; a bad Starmie. It would be nice to see more Fire attacks and other unique things out of it.
However, I find that hard to believe for Dusknoir. Considering how bulky it is and its amazing versatility, it can pretty much be tailored to counter the rest of your team's biggest weaknesses and thus be plugged into pretty much any five-man team looking for that last pokémon to round it out. Its only real weaknesses are all crippled by BRN even if they manage to kill Dusknoir and it walls Heracross and Electivire for free. I don't think it's Dusknoir not fitting into their team, as it can fit into pretty much any team, people just aren't using it properly.
As for Slowbro, the way most people use it is merely as an overspecialized Gyarados counter; a bad Starmie. It would be nice to see more Fire attacks and other unique things out of it.
Most of the people who are saying Gallade is too weak haven't been using it effectively. If you give it enough HP EVs, you can use it Late Game to cripple Sweepers. Hypnosis/Twave something on the Switch and use Night Slash/CC to put them in Ko range for yourself or for your Late Game Sweeper.
I'm surprised at the number of people who have been disappointed in Gyarados... it's incredibly good. I think a lot of people have problems with not being willing to switch out after DDing, thinking they can take anything down.
I have been disappointed in Starmie, even as a spinner. I'm not that huge a fan of Yanmega either - 4x SR weakness and not enough versatility and power for how fragile it is.
I have been disappointed in Starmie, even as a spinner. I'm not that huge a fan of Yanmega either - 4x SR weakness and not enough versatility and power for how fragile it is.
Dragonite, Salamence, and Flygon.
gallade is very durable, maybe not too much for physical attacks, but certainly for special.
and with a lot of HP EVs, he can take hits pretty well (hes not a wall guys, hes a supporter)
also, starmie is awesome, it takes hits surprising well too. it can take out any gyrados, even switching in.
the thing is, these two are more supporter pokes, with good atk/spatk stats.
and with a lot of HP EVs, he can take hits pretty well (hes not a wall guys, hes a supporter)
also, starmie is awesome, it takes hits surprising well too. it can take out any gyrados, even switching in.
the thing is, these two are more supporter pokes, with good atk/spatk stats.
I got owned by a stupid Slowbro with Flamethrower today.
Pretty boring saying it now, but Rhyperior is definitely at the top of my list. I haven't tried an all-out attack CB version yet, though, and I think that'll definitely be better than the more tanking type.
When I started getting ready for D/P play everyone on the boards were all over Electivire's nuts, but even when I'm not running Cresselia he's a complete pushover, dies easily and does little damage. Definitely one of the most overhyped.
I'm not sure why people have mentioned Gyarados; I think one reason might be the players using him are pretty much bad and try to set up right away instead of doing something useful. Garchomp, as well, is pretty amazing.
Gallade is very good i don't know where the hate is coming from.On the other hand Electivire is hugely overated and is walled too easily.
Kyogre: I thought Scarf/Water Spout was pretty deadly, until I realized that Blissey walls it to death and Giratina takes Waterfall/Aqua Tail with ease. Specs is really what you need to worry about, unless you have Mewtwo.
Agreeing with all the Electivire hate. Umbreon shrugs off Cross Chops and Charms it, and he's all I ever needed in an Electivire counter. Forretress takes him pretty well too, without Thunderbolt. And he's so easy to bait into things like Gengar. Magmortar has given me more problems.
Agreeing with all the Electivire hate. Umbreon shrugs off Cross Chops and Charms it, and he's all I ever needed in an Electivire counter. Forretress takes him pretty well too, without Thunderbolt. And he's so easy to bait into things like Gengar. Magmortar has given me more problems.
I can never get Weavile to take out teams. Whenever I do get a Swords Dance after Focus Sash, my opponent always seems to have a Sand Steamer, Abamasnow, or a priority move.
that is why most experienced people would argue it's best as a CBed "revenge killer" who makes arguable the best of the fantastic threat Pursuit poses with Weavile's STAB and high speed and attack
phiphler is correct to wonder what evidence most of you are basing your conclusions on, and i would appreciate it if from now on you would give real evidence to back up your frustrations with x pokemon
phiphler is correct to wonder what evidence most of you are basing your conclusions on, and i would appreciate it if from now on you would give real evidence to back up your frustrations with x pokemon
Skarm just isn't common enough (or dominant enough like it was in ADV) to justify carrying Magnezone.
Yes, Rhyperior should be used as a CBer, not a tank. In general, you want it taking as few hits as possible.
I think HP Ice > Ice Punch should be an option for Electvire, so as to at least threaten the bulky grounds.
Like it was said before, you need lots of prediction for it to work.
Yes, Rhyperior should be used as a CBer, not a tank. In general, you want it taking as few hits as possible.
I think HP Ice > Ice Punch should be an option for Electvire, so as to at least threaten the bulky grounds.
Like it was said before, you need lots of prediction for it to work.
aamto
on whom the three Fates smile
That's the worst possible kind of thinking. Magnezone is NO LONGER Magneton, the "trap skarm and then become a dead weight" pokemon.
Let's not forgot that Magnezone can trap a variety of other Steels (not to mention deal big damage to anything not named Blissey). Bronzong and Forretress come to mind. Sure they can EQ you, but you are faster and can just Magnet Rise in their face (which I think should be standard on all Zones), sub up, and slaughter them. Unlike Dugtrio, Zone can also trap any Metagross (speaking CB/CS here, pretty much) that isn't stuck using Hammer Arm/Earthquake. And its 130 base Sattack is just half of his awesome -- the fantastic typing and great defense bases really help him.
Magnezone just isn't around to trap Skarmory anymore, especially with the advent of Shed Shell (although people on Shoddy seem to not want to use it). However, he's a far cry from his dead-weight Magneton self. Great stats and typing really help here.
True I totally agree and magnezone VS a Donphan I wouldn't leave my Donphan there, so Sub and start hitting people with that 130 base sp atk. It can explode when done and paralyze if you want it too, it's a great poke.
Eh - I see your point; but I think what I said about Skarm applies to all bulky steels - whereas in ADV there was so few ways to beat Skarmory or even Forretress, in DP, there are many ways to beat Skarmory, Forretress, or Bronzong within the context of a team, so even if you say "Magnezone can trap other steels", getting rid of the steels isn't as important as before.
The thing that made Magneton dead-weight ish in ADV was not its stats, it was the bad offensive movepool, and Magnezone hasn't improved much there.
But that's just been my experience.
I used Dusknoir and Electivire in my first ShoddyBattle team, and they did their works pretty well. The problem with Dusknoir was just paralisis/burn/whatever; that's why I feared all the Cresselias I saw in my front, even if I had Pain Split at my side. Electivire, obviously, was hampered by Donphan, Tangrowth, Hippowdon and Weezing, so I'm gonna ditch Ice Punch and use HP Ice (who suggested this in this thread? Anyway, nice idea).
About Gyarados... It's wonderful. There are a lot of people that God knows why still use their walls/supporters without any decent attacking move (lol Drifblim), letting Gyara start the DD rampage. Ice Fang is shitty for him, Stone Edge misses but has a way better Base Power, and my team deals with Garchomp well anyway (and Gyara has Waterfall).
I won't say a thing about Rhyperior because I saw only ONE of them, and the guy using it wasn't too good at the D/P metagame (Yanmega raped his team, lol).
About Gyarados... It's wonderful. There are a lot of people that God knows why still use their walls/supporters without any decent attacking move (lol Drifblim), letting Gyara start the DD rampage. Ice Fang is shitty for him, Stone Edge misses but has a way better Base Power, and my team deals with Garchomp well anyway (and Gyara has Waterfall).
I won't say a thing about Rhyperior because I saw only ONE of them, and the guy using it wasn't too good at the D/P metagame (Yanmega raped his team, lol).