Policy Review Policy Review - Order of Events

[DougJustDoug]

What would be useful would be to find a step that is not affected by art (and does not affect art) that can be placed almost directly after Type.

Hold that thought for a little while longer. I have another PR thread that I have been working on that may affect this discussion...

 

[tennisace]

Is it ok if I propose that we Remove Pokedex Entries from the main process? Really, they're completely unnecessary, and we use them for absolutely nothing since we play on a battle simulator.

 

[DougJustDoug]

Sure, that's a valid proposal for this thread. And I agree with it. It's pretty harmless, but it does extend things unnecessarily.

 

[Hyra]

Agreeing with Tennis, I didn't pay attention to any of the dex entries until the last poll. They were nice for the first CAP, to flesh it out, but they really seemed tacked on now.

 

[Goodbar]

I agree with you Doug about the art... About moving the ability poll before the stats poll, I have a slightly different proposition: why don't the stat spread submitters also submit an ability or list of possible abilities to go along with their spreads? I mean both arguably can have a pretty good impact on a pokemon's niche, so why not do them together?

 

[eric the espeon]

@tennis's idea

I would also support having the Dex entry poll running alongside the movepool section, or maybe removing it entirely.

As I said there: Dex entry's could go entirely but we could also run them alongside a competitive poll.
I also ignored the Dex entry section of Strata but it seemed like quite a few people enjoyed it, maybe putting it next to the movepool poll would be a good idea?

 

[jagged_angel]

Interesting idea Mr Goodbar.

I am worried that this would give the Stat Submitters unneccessary responsibility and power.

How about the Ability Discussion is moved to open simultaneously with the Base Stat Submissions so that the process looks like this:

(Multiple parts with a single bullet, means they are initiated simutaneously)[LIST]
[*]Concept Submissions
Topic Leader Nominations
[*]Part 1 (Concept Poll)
Topic Leader Selection
[*]Part 2 (Main Type Poll)
[*]Part 3 (Secondary Type Poll)
[*]Part 4 (Style Bias Poll)
Stat Spread Submissions
Art Submissions
Part 5a (Ability Discussion)
[*]Part 6 (Build Bias Poll)
[*]Part 7 (Stat Rating Poll)
Part 5b (Ability Poll)
[*]Part 8 (Stat Spread Poll)
[*]Part 9 (Art Poll)
[*]Part 10a (Name Discussion)
[*]Part 11a (Attack Moves Discussion)
Sprite Submissions
[*]Part 10b (Name Poll)
[*]Part 11b (Attack Moves Poll)
Part 12a (Defense and Support Moves Discussion)
[*]Part 12b (Defense and Support Moves Poll)
[*]Part 13 (Complete Movepool Poll)
Part 14a (Pokedex Entry Discussion)
[*]Part 14b (Pokedex Entry Poll)
Part 15 (Sprite Poll)
[*]Server Implementation
Finalize Analysis
Misc (Pre-Evos, Height, Weight, etc.)
[*]Playtesting[/LIST]

Ability Discussion opens simultaneously with Base Stat Submissions and Art Submissions.
Ability Poll opens simultaneously with Stat Rating Poll.

This way Ability and Stats can be decided on together, before Art. This change gives Art Submissions longer to run which means artists can spend more time on their work.

This also gives equal weight to Ability and Stats, so that if an 'extreme' Ability fits the concept, it is not ruled out because the stats are too high.

This would also place Ability alongside Art so that no Abilities are ruled out for flavour reasons and no Ability is favoured as it strongly fits with flavour (as Levitate was with Stratagem).


I definitely support the moving of Name Discussion and Poll to earlier in the process, name is easily decided on as soon as Art is chosen and will definitely encourage users to become more attached to the project.

I support the removal of Pokedex Entries as an official step of the process but it would be nice if they could be discussed in the sprite poll along with the weight of the CAP with the TL picking 3 entries plus a weight at the end of the poll.
This way those who enjoy the flavour aspect of CAP can vote on sprites and suggest pokedex entries without slowing down the process. People unconcerned with non-competitive aspects of the CAP can still discuss the small issue of weight affecting Low Kick and Grass Knot damage.

 

[darkie]

[LIST]
[*]Concept Submissions
Topic Leader Nominations
[*]Part 1 (Concept Poll)
Topic Leader Selection
[*]Part 2 (Main Type Poll)
[*]Part 3 (Secondary Type Poll)
[*]Part 4 (Style Bias Poll)
Stat Spread Submissions
Art Submissions
Part 5a (Ability Discussion)
[*]Part 6 (Build Bias Poll)
[*]Part 7 (Stat Rating Poll)
Part 5b (Ability Poll)
[*]Part 8 (Stat Spread Poll)
[*]Part 9 (Art Poll)
[*]Part 10a (Name Discussion)
[*]Part 11a (Attack Moves Discussion)
Sprite Submissions
[*]Part 10b (Name Poll)
[*]Part 11b (Attack Moves Poll)
Part 12a (Defense and Support Moves Discussion)
[*]Part 12b (Defense and Support Moves Poll)
[*]Part 13 (Complete Movepool Poll)
Part 14 (Sprite Poll)
Misc (Pre-Evos, Height, Weight, etc.)
[*]Server Implementation
[*]Playtesting
Analysis[/LIST]

I like this for OoO. I made changes mostly at the end. First off, I added the Misc. with the movepool poll, because this thread is basically a short discussion; it hasn't taken more than about a day so far. I got rid of Pokedex entries and polls, because it is pretty much useless, imo. Finally, I added the Analysis after the playtesting. It is worthless to write an analysis without playtesting, and dumb to think that it will be quality if it is written before implementation.

 

[ParadOxymoron]

I got rid of Pokedex entries and polls, because it is pretty much useless, imo.

Personally, I think it should go under Miscellaneous. People can talk about them there.

Finally, I added the Analysis after the playtesting. It is worthless to write an analysis without playtesting, and dumb to think that it will be quality if it is written before implementation.

I agree on this. This was a problem with Fidgit and Stratagem.

 

[DougJustDoug]

Conclusion:

I've taken darkie's proposed order (which was fairly derivative of jagged angel's proposal) and changed it a bit to accommodate a step from the Countering PR. See that thread for its conclusion.

Here is the new Order of Events we will use for CAP 6.

[LIST]
[*]Concept Submissions
Topic Leader Nominations
[*]Part 1 (Concept Poll)
Selection Panel
Topic Leader Selection
[*]Part 2 (Main Type Poll)
[*]Part 3 (Secondary Type Poll)
[*]Part 4 (Style Bias Poll)
Stat Spread Submissions
Art Submissions
Part 5a (Ability Discussion)
[*]Part 6 (Build Bias Poll)
[*]Part 7 (Stat Rating Poll)
Part 5b (Ability Poll)
[*]Part 8 (Stat Spread Poll)
[*]Part 9 (Art Poll)
[*]Part 10a (Name Discussion)
Part 11 (Counters Discussion)
[*]Part 10b (Name Poll)
Part 12a (Attacking Moves Discussion)
Sprite Submissions
[*]Part 12b (Attacking Moves Poll)
Part 13a (Non-Attacking Moves Discussion)
[*]Part 13b (Non-Attacking Moves Poll)
[*]Part 14a (Complete Movepool Discussion)
[*]Part 14b (Complete Movepool Poll)
Part 15 (Sprite Poll)
[*]Misc (Pre-Evos, Height, Weight, etc.)
Server Implementation
[*]Playtesting
Analysis
[/LIST]

I'm sure we will be tweaking the order more in the future. But this will let us try out some new things, and see if it helps.

EDIT: Removed the Voting Panel step, since there is still more to discuss.