Does Precipe Blades land some notable KOs over EQ?
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Gen 6 Primal Groudon
- Thread starter yohoE
- Start date
- Status
Assuming 252+ Atk:
-OHKO 4/0 Ogre after SR
-OHKO 252/0 Primal Don after SR
-OHKO 4/0 Primal Don (EQ needs SR to OHKO)
-2HKO 252/0 Arceus (EQ needs SR to 2HKO)
Offensive PDon secures some notable KOes with Precipice Blades, but defensive variants can probably get away with running EQ for better accuracy.
Is there a reason to use regular Groudon ever again other than sun support for Ho-oh and Reshiram?
Well it isn't weak to EQ, kind of checks PGroudon without Overheat and handles SD Arceus better from the top of my head.
So for the record, what is generally a reliable way to check Primal Groudon, if anything? With the new updates, none of the old options (Kyogre, Burn or Physical Walls) really work anymore. Any suggestions?
Surf Mega Rayquaza is the best check since it can take a hit from anything PDon has and secure an OHKO.
But why not just use the either the DD or SD set with earthquake? It's a guaranteed 2HKO at +1, and forget about it at +2, and that's using max HP, max DEF+ for the calcs. Sure you have to set up, but PDon does too. I don't see a reason to use surf for anything other than the shock value.
EQ 2HKOs regular offensive PDon regardless, especially with LO factored in, so Surf is basically pointless. The thing is, unboosted 1v1, Rayquaza wins anyway, and Surf is a horrible waste of a moveslot just to KO something that gets 2HKOd by your 2nd coverage move over something useful such as Extremespeed. Also, imo the best check to PDon rn is Lugia, since it can actually take unboosted hits rather well and force it out with Whirlwind.
i've been using regular groudon to beat pgroudon lol
it's worked out for me so far.
i've also been using landorous-t. he probably gets bopped by a special variant that can outspeed but he's worked relatively reliably for me as a switch in so far. and often forces the switch. if not it takes a chill 80% or so from EQ (i don't know for sure, depends on the lando set/pgroud set obvi)
Offensive checks: Giratina-O, Arceus-Ground, Mega Rayquaza, Lati@s, Mega Salamence (sort of), Primal Kyogre
Defensive checks: Lugia, Skarmory (if no Fire moves), regular Groudon, Landorus-T (if no special attacks), Cresselia (sort of, SD probably overpowers it)
There are still a fair few checks if you know where to look, you mainly just can't slap a Wisp on Groudon and call it a day anymore.
Dragon Claw is more common than Stone Edge in my experience. Having some ability to deal with Mega-Ray is more valuable than securing the kill on Ho-Oh in my opinion.
So, I started playing ORAS some ubers today with a new team. It includes a P-Groudon set I wish to share.
Sleeping Giant set:
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Precipice Blades/Earthquake
- Fire Punch
I'm not sure how viable it is. From my experience, it seems like it could be too squishy to really carry out its job, so I might change the EV spread to / 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD /. The limited offensive moves might also be a bit of a problem, so perhaps a rest-talk set might not work on P-Groudon. But hey, I just wanted to try it out.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Sleeping Giant set:
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Precipice Blades/Earthquake
- Fire Punch
I'm not sure how viable it is. From my experience, it seems like it could be too squishy to really carry out its job, so I might change the EV spread to / 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD /. The limited offensive moves might also be a bit of a problem, so perhaps a rest-talk set might not work on P-Groudon. But hey, I just wanted to try it out.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Do you lose any potential KOs at +2 max attack investment if you decide to run Jolly over Adamant?
Last edited:
Just off the top of my head:
252+ Atk Primal-Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 301-355 (88 - 103.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Primal-Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 274-324 (80.1 - 94.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Primal-Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 268-316 (89 - 104.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Primal-Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 244-288 (81 - 95.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Primal-Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Latias: 268-316 (83.4 - 98.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Primal-Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Latias: 244-288 (76 - 89.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Primal-Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 294-348 (97.3 - 115.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Primal-Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 270-318 (89.4 - 105.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Primal-Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 194-230 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Primal-Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 178-210 (40.3 - 47.6%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Ah, ok.
I updated my post with asking anything at +2 while Jolly, and I can see that Giratina-O would be the potential loss of a guaranteed OHKO after rocks, with about a 50% chance to OHKO after rocks at level 100 play and a 68.8% to OHKO after rocks on level 50 (or 3DS) play.
+2 252 Atk Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 354-418 (80.2 - 94.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (lvl 100)
+2 252 Atk Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 186-220 (82.6 - 97.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (lvl 50)
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Rock Polish
- Precipice Blade
- Dragon Claw
- Overheat
I really like this set. It's a fantastic wallbreaker and late game sweeper. Overheat can destroy it previous checks and counters. Max speed because it's better to be safe than sorry. Lonely nature so that Overheat power won't be reduce and sacifice physical defense rather than the more important special defense. Only thing is it doesn't do good against Ho-oh so set up your rocks asap.
Why use Dragon Claw when most Dragon types are hit hard by Stone Edge? Also, you can run an Adamant nature and not worry about too much loss in Overheat's power. Besides, you still have the sun to boost its power. Although I don't know any KOs it misses out on by running Adamant, Overheat really only hits the physically bulky mons.
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Rock Polish
- Precipice Blade
- Dragon Claw
- Overheat
I really like this set. It's a fantastic wallbreaker and late game sweeper. Overheat can destroy it previous checks and counters. Max speed because it's better to be safe than sorry. Lonely nature so that Overheat power won't be reduce and sacifice physical defense rather than the more important special defense. Only thing is it doesn't do good against Ho-oh so set up your rocks asap.
Hack, would you recommend a specially defensive nature for all sets then? or just max HP and more into SDef, even if you want to run double dance? having a ahrd time thinking of the right EV spread
First off there is no reason to run max speed on any set unless you desperately want to creep other groudons, which can easily backfire and isn't worth it- meaning even RP sets have a lot of spare evs. You don't need sdef nature on every set, there are numbers I don't want to reveal yet that are quite intuitive for for sets like mixed wall and rp if you just think more about it. A hint is that you should never be afraid of losing some attack evs if you feel a little extra bulk is needed.
So, Adamant/Relaxed Groudon can still spare EVs for special bulk quite well.
So, Adamant/Relaxed Groudon can still spare EVs for special bulk quite well.
1. There are solid Xerneas checks out there, so teams that possess these don't necessarily have to run enough bulk on Pdon to survive whatever from xern. Something to note: if you sacrifice atk you might not have enough power to kill xern off from where it's at when you come in to revenge meaning xern can kill you off with other attack and sweep your team, and so it may backfire. If you sacrifice atk, you can fall short of a ohko on opposing pdon even with p blade. Not to mention, no bulk pdon can still survive a +2 focus blast.
2. Usually you should not risk a speed tie with opposing p don unless you absolutely have to but given this generally hyper offensive metagame having this advantage is nice. Note that there are other relevant base 90 such as p orge.
3. "there are numbers I don't want to reveal yet" these are easily calculated there's no reason to hide them. Since the meta is still new, people may run certain bulk on offensive pdon for xern, but once the meta settles down a bit typical offensive spread will be seen more.
Sadly you are far from the truth, I don't really know why you want to argue this but ok here we go:
1. a) There aren't actually many good Xerneas answers out there, and not nearly enough teams can afford to not compress with Pdon when given the chance. Klefki is certainly viable, yes, but other than that there is actually a relative scarcity of true Xern answers.
b) Run roar.
c) calc before talk: 252+ Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 366-432 (90.5 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO you still have a chance to miss out on KOs vs opposing pDon.
d) calc before talk 2: +2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 316-372 (92.6 - 109%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock, no it can not.
2. meta isn't hyper offensive, it's bulky offensive, but you may believe whatever you want.
3. i said the numbers were intuitive for anyone bothered enough to find out, don't give me the "i'm good enough to know what spreads are good" when you clearly have used up every last bit of credibility posting an utterly useless set with even more baseless evs. your last sentence is such a bad argument i don't even
1. a) There aren't actually many good Xerneas answers out there, and not nearly enough teams can afford to not compress with Pdon when given the chance. Klefki is certainly viable, yes, but other than that there is actually a relative scarcity of true Xern answers.
b) Run roar.
c) calc before talk: 252+ Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 366-432 (90.5 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO you still have a chance to miss out on KOs vs opposing pDon.
d) calc before talk 2: +2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 316-372 (92.6 - 109%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock, no it can not.
2. meta isn't hyper offensive, it's bulky offensive, but you may believe whatever you want.
3. i said the numbers were intuitive for anyone bothered enough to find out, don't give me the "i'm good enough to know what spreads are good" when you clearly have used up every last bit of credibility posting an utterly useless set with even more baseless evs. your last sentence is such a bad argument i don't even
Except doesn't Xern get Earth Power now? That's gonna kill you regardless.
- Status