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Altaria isn't the greatest thing in the world but it is very splashable, It can run Specs with its decent coverage, DD but it competes heavilly from Fraxure, nice cleric movepool. I have to give it credit to performing quite a bit of roles where a lot of pokemon can not really do that.
C to B-
Audino is a less bulky Lickyicky that recovers by switching out which is very important for a wish passer it also has a variety of coverage options such Grass Knot and Fire Blast
B+ to A
Beedrill, please stop saying it is decent. It has ONE thing over Venipede and what most people are comparing it Ariados which is Knock Off. It is terribly outclassed even with its speed. Knock Off is not enough to Justify itself from being any better than the other TSpikers
E
Camerupt faces the same problem Octillery does. It has good coverage but it is slow AF. I will give it credit for having Stealth Rock though.
E to D
Glalie, OK i'll give it some credit that it stands out from other Spike leads. If you have ever used lead Qwilfish this thing will seem natural, get up as many layers of spikes as possible and boom. Beat out slower hazard leads with Taunt. Super Fang is fun on occasions as well to.
C to B-
Lopunny is a bit of an odd one. Haven't really seen anything that stands out to much as being a normal type attacker besides its one time Flame Orb trick. It has fighting coverage as well which I will give mention of that hits rock and ice types
D to C
Feel free to complain and give me BS about my oppinions
I didn't mean to confuse you on that part I meant if I were to rank it would be somewhere in between to two rankings I listed.
U-turn and Tailwind are two things I didn't even think of. But there are pokemon who can do those better such as Pelliper and Articuno (Personal set I have used)
Lopunny is a bit of an odd one. Haven't really seen anything that stands out to much as being a normal type attacker besides its one time Flame Orb trick. It has fighting coverage as well which I will give mention of that hits rock and ice types
D to C
I had said much that stands out I am fully aware of choice band, I didn't say that it the only set I only said it doesn't stand out as a normal type attacker. I suppose it can Baton Pass things to but that isn't revolved around that.
On another note, I really think this needs to happen. Servine to D/E
Current meta trends and the existence of a few very competent Sap Sipper users makes it so hard to justify Servine on any real team. It does have Contrary going for it (ie great matchup against webs and also does well on webs) but I find it almost impossible to justify its use over Exeggutor. Also, its pretty weak before the boost (and is pretty underwhelming even after one tbh) and has a rather meh speed tier compared to the speed that most teams are running in the current meta (ie Floatzel, Zebstrika). Glare sets are cool and all, but Roselia has Natural Cure, Bouff is already pretty damn slow, and Zebstrika can't be para'd. Like, Eggy is just better and leaves no room for poor Servine. I think it may have some niches that could keep it in D, but I won't be suprised if it goes to E.
uh I suppose it's not too early to talk about preliminary rankings for the new drops then?
Altaria is being massively underrated so far. It is pretty splashable due to being a Monferno check, and having some nice resists. Specs and SpA Life Orb is a nightmare to switch into and from playing with it, Dragon Dance sets are not half bad as well. I can't see it in anything less than B+
Beedrill seems to be viable to me, obviously a lot worse than Ninjask but it has Drill Run and Knock Off, making it harder to counter. Tspikes Beedrill doesn't seem so good though because there are better Tspikes users imo. I could see C- or D rank.
Audino may see a bit of hype, but I would be hesitant to put it in anything higher than A- rank. Don't get me wrong, Wish+Regen is amazing, but it's just super passive, much more so than Lickilicky, so it practically forces you to run a counter to Machoke on your team- a.k.a not very splashable. Also anything with the move substitute can set up on it.
So apparently since this is the hip thing to do I'll post my preliminary thoughts:
Lopunny is kinda weak and hard walled by ghosts but this isn't a huge problem since it has ways to at least annoy the things it's walled by and this doesn't really detract all too much from its niche as a fast Healing Wish user. The highest I can see this going is C+ since its flaws do still hold it back a decent amount but the lowest I could see it in is C-.
Glalie is really hard to place since against a lot of teams it will really never be getting more than one spike (though against some teams you can not lead with it and get up two spikes on something else), but it's so much better outside of just setting Spikes than any of the other offensive spikers (aside from offensive Roselia but Spikes isn't great on that). I'd probably put it in the same rank as Venipede, which is B-.
Camerupt isn't great but it's not as bad as some people are making it out to be, it walls non-Rotom electrics just like Stunfisk but it hits a lot harder and isn't a free switch in for Eggy and Rotom without a specific 4th move (it also beats Rotom 1v1 which is good). Not the best choice for a Stealth Rock setter but not the worst either, C+/B- seems about right for it.
Beedrill is awful lol any "niche" it might have doesn't change the fact that it's straight up inferior to other options in 90% of scenarios. E please.
Haven't had enough experience with Audino or Altaria but I'd imagine Audino being somewhere in the A ranks and Altaria somewhere in the B ranks.
I have to admit that I haven't used all drops but that's just because Beedrill sucks. I will not waste time talking about it since it is pretty clear it is a strictly worse Venipede (and even Sash Tentacool or Omanyte) that has access to the ever so short lasting Tailwind and U-turn which is totally shit when Endeavor and Toxic Spikes are better moves to use in the one turn Beedril is going to live because of Focus Sash lol. E for sure.
Glalie is something I have slightly overhyped but it is a Spikes user that has access to Taunt which is quite amazing (freeze dry for pelipper also is to an extent but ye) but also doesn't have sturdy or speed boost or much outside of that so its use on teams is quite limited. B- to B is fair
Altaria is a pretty cool Pokemon and while I have only experimented with bulky dragon dance + roost I have seen a few other sets used well so its use can be justified on teams. It does a very good job at checking a lot of troublesome grass types for balanced teams and does well with fire-types as well so b/b+ rank is probably its place
Camerupt also surprised me for being quite decent to be honest. It is nothing short of amazing but can get Stealth Rock up fairly reliably against a few Pokemon and its electric immunity is useful as always. I've used a spdef set since that's needed to have any sort of bulk so yeah I would say B rank is its place.
Audino is in my opinion a top 10 Pokemon in the current metagame even just because of its resilience and mixed bulk that are quite unheard of on a PU pokemon. The fact that it also gets Healing Wish and can be used as a pivot on bulky offense is also very useful but yeah it is hard to condense all my thoughts on such a relevant threat in a few lines so yeah wait for more in the future
Lopunny is like C to D since its underwhelmingly weak a lot of the time and walled by any ghost but its role as a Flame Orb lure coupled with Stoutland is definitely unique and access to Healing Wish makes everything nice
Some clear beedrill have access to drill run with which you can defeat pokemon pokemon rock type, steel and fire which are very common in the metagame with its typing becomes a good check of Exeggutor and Roselia beedrill has a decent special defense which allows you to hold some special hand strokes access to drill run and knock off make it a very deadly weapon though this tier below certain pokemon which make their work better access to the back Tspikes a good lead in to add this pokemon has access to tailwind and endeavor which render it a pretty decent lead.
It has several niches on Venipede and unlike any other lead.Also you have access to U-Turn.
Ok i think Beedrill talk is enough but people overrate its power really and the fact that Drill Run is absolutely useless. For instance:
252 Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 110-130 (26 - 30.8%) -- 4.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Relicanth: 110-130 (32.2 - 38.1%) -- 94.4% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Relicanth: 110-130 (27.2 - 32.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Relicanth: 82-98 (20.2 - 24.2%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Probopass: 200-236 (61.7 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (this does a little bit but not even that much)
252 Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Camerupt: 136-162 (39.6 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Golem: 110-130 (30.2 - 35.7%) -- 33.1% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golem: 110-130 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252 Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Arbok: 124-146 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Metang: 90-108 (27.7 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Metang: 68-80 (20.9 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
As shown by the calcs it does absolutely pitiful damage to the point that min hp endeavor does more, especially from Venipede WHICH ALWAYS OUTCLASSES BEEDRILL IN ANY SITUATION.
There is absolutely no way Beedrill will be more than E rank so refrain from posting about Beedrill or you will be infracted. FOCUS ON THE GOOD POKEMON.
To not make this double post useless i have a suggestion on Stunfisk.
After the latest tier shifts Stunfisk really has struggled in the PU metagame especially considering to the number of Pokemon that can take advantage of it very easily atm. First of all Exeggutor and Rotom-F are incredibly hard Pokemon to beat in the current metagame and Stunfisk is just an opportunity for them to come in freely, which is very problematic for balance and bulky offense. Other Pokemon that do very very well are Bouffalant and Vigoroth that simply set up to no end on Stunfisk and are at their highest of their viability at this point and two massive threats to take account for. The fact that it does incredibly well versus Pawniard makes Stunfisk very important on many teams but the fact that the tier also has other very strong Water- and Grass-type presences in Roselia, Simipour / Simisage, and Floatzel also limits its effectiveness against offensive playstyles that just have options to deal with it. It is obviously still effective but in my opinion it doesnt deserve its place as the best Pokemon in the A ranks now.
Even without the fact that the set is completely outclassed by Floatzel, the set isn't even that good. You will almost never be in percentage of Brine without being KOed because of Basculin's lack of bulk, and if you do you will be outspeed by the majority of teams now days and not have time to even use Brine. Basculin's Special Attack stat is weaker than his Attack stat, and his Speed isn't even good enough to be a revenge killer or sweep. It would be better for Basculin to drop than rise in all honesty, he just faces way too much competition from other Water-types. So I actually propose:
well, not with your dissection of that set in particular. that set is very not good. but basculin is certainly and absolutely deserving of B-rank and i would actually consider advocating it for B+.
this is my favorite set. it's only slightly updated from the currently on-site set (link!) but that's also from may and is otherwise outdated in regards to how basculin's effectiveness is discussed. major checks like poliwrath and carracosta aren't around anymore, and with roselia as virtually the only zen headbutt target, you're free to run the much stronger and more viable alternative superpower. superpower drills lapras, relicanth, regice, the multitude of fat normals (audino, lickilicky, bouffalant), etc. bulkier variants of eggy are cleanly 2hkoed by uninvested neutral ice beam as long as they aren't yache. all the new drops help basculin too since it owns all of them without even flinching. i'd actually say that basculin has a favorable matchup against the majority of s- and a-rank barring the couple fast resists to aqua jet (simis, jumpluff, & floatzel) and dumb evio pokes (roselia, vullaby, tangela).
knock off support is also disproportionately beneficial for basculin:
252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Basculin Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Vullaby: 226-268 (65.8 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Life Orb Basculin Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Vullaby: 200-237 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Life Orb Basculin Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tangela: 283-335 (84.7 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Basculin Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Roselia: 146-172 (48 - 56.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
outside of these guys + pelipper, there aren't that many bulky mons that can handle basculin straight up. and with voltturn team support...
it's got its weaknesses and i probably forgot to list something here, but i struggle to see where an offensive monster like basculin merits a potential drop to B-. (ps: i don't think special basculin is particularly worth it, but i'd run surf / ibeam / superpower / jet @ 252/252+ if you'd like to try it)
Yeah B- is definitely too low for Basculin, but I'd hesitate to put it in B+ when there are so many great mons there already. Huntail, Metang, Murkrow, and Articuno are all amazing and clearly a step above it, and most of the other mons there are a bit better than it too. However this could easily change as the metagame seems to be favoring defensive teams a bit more with the introduction of Audino into the tier, since the better slower teams get the better Basculin becomes, so I could definitely see it rising in the future.
My take on the new drops:
(btw the first thing you need to know is that im fairly new to PU so the arguments will stink a little).
Glalie:I could look at glalie as a semi fast spiker that doesnt quite lose to stunfisk and balanced stats make it hard to predict whether it is special or physical(you would be running special because freeze-dry alone checks alot of things such as gourgeist stunfisk slow waters etc etc) or is it a lead spiker(sashboom+spikes and filler filler).Allthough it is nice at what it does i wouldnt put it higher than venipede because the bad defensive typing make it for a bad spiker and it sucks against many common pokemon.(zebstrika,monferno,machoke etc etc)but it has good merits at beating walls such as stunfisk and gourgeist with a special set.I think i would put it at C+(it is kind of outclassed by veni).
Audino.Audino has an excellent defensive typing(being weak to 1 type and having an immunity is quite important),pretty nice bulk,good coverage but nothing to abuse it with.It is sort of like amoonguss in RU.A Health Freak(ability is centered around health and it has alot of HP).It has a wide movepool and a supporting one with Heal Bell,Healing Wish,Encore,Toxic etc etc.It can also serve as a good cleric due to the regenerator ability and it has Wish.It can also have a lure set with CM 3 attacks which is quite bad i may say but it can be usable on certain teams due to having a large movepool.All in All i could see audino possibly in A- but B+ i think its whats best for it.Im basically 51% for B+ and 49% for A-.
Altaria.Altaria while it is quite a good drop it isnt great as audino for the tier.The Specs set is hard to switch to because of the coverage altaria gets so you need to either switch into something that can possibly take a hit or to sack.Altaria hasnt got much rolling for it though as it is 4x weak to ice which floatzel and basculin can utilize,and it is easy to revenge kill due to ice shard or if weakened, by any priority that isnt mach punch.It is also slower than gabite which leaves it open to take an outrage which it wont appreciate.It also doesnt have quite the raw power like stoutland and it doesnt utilize both of its stabs which can be quite problematic from time to times.It also needs hazard removal because it will be taking 24% any time it comes in.I would put altaria up to B-,i wouldnt go anywhere near B+.
Camerupt.Ah camerupt.Im sorry o say but you are not as good.Floatzel ruins your day,basculin is there,but the good thing is....you are a stealth rocker that isnt beat by Rotom-F.Yay.You also have an outstanding niche in switching to defensive rose and beating stunfisk.So you are not completely garbage.You have a niche at beating Zebby since you resist overheat and are immune to Tbolt and HP hits neutrally.You cannot beat stoutland,Unlike Stunfisk you have offensive pressure can beat pawn 1v1,can beat raichu etc etc.I think i would go C to C+ on you but im not the expert so...
Lopunny.Lopunny isnt a great pokemon per say and i think its stats show it.It has next to 0 offensive pressure not that great of a bulk and not the greatest offensive typing.High BP STAB dont make up for the weak Attack stat that it has.It is Heavily outclassed by Stoutland the only thing it has going for it is Encore.I think that this should go to C or C- if it exists.
Beedrill.Beedrill is a bad venipede that it only has some offensive pressure and HP fire would bring it to sash haha.It has a really low offensive pressure and it really isnt good.E rank because it really isnt worth it.
Bit of a weird time for an update but there will still be one this saturday
Altaria added to B+
Audino added to A
Beedrill added to E
Camerupt added to B
Glalie added to B
Lopunny added to C-
Rapidash from A to A-
Gorebyss from A- to B+
Lickilicky from B to B-
Servine from C+ to C-
Drifblim from C to C+
Seaking from C to C+
Trapinch from C- to C
Chimecho from D to E
Altaria was put in B+ because the LO set is quite effective, especially since most of its switch-ins really dislike Toxic and Pokemon such as Clefairy have fallen out of favor. Bulky DD sets and offensive DD sets with Yache Berry are also decently effective. Audino was added to A because it is amazingly useful to all sorts of team archetypes and can switch safely into a wide variety of attacks thanks to Regenerator. Glalie was added to B because it and Venipede are about as viable as each other and each have certain things going for them. Camerupt was added to B almost completely because of the specially defensive set, which takes on a variety of special attackers well, especially Electric-types, has Stealth Rock, and hits quite hard even without investment. The rest of the changes are pretty minor but feel free to VM me if you want to know why they happened.
It's been a while since I nominated anything to rise in viability. This is partly because I haven't been captivated by a mon's power in ages. However, I have finally found something that I'm enthusiastic about.
I wanna begin by saying that this thing is the absolute definition of annoying. This set is fairly standard as far as I'm aware but the changes in the meta are the true reasons why it deserves a bump up. The point of the set is to set up a sub on something that can't touch it and proceed to protect disable seed your way to victory. Gourg-S does well vs choice locked mons by subbing on something that can't touch it and protect/disabling the choiced mon after it has used the move that could touch gourg. This forces it to struggle and allows you to re-sub on its switch.
In terms of the meta changing, gourgeist-S has benefited greatly from the drops. Exeggutor and Pawniard being so common have threatened roselia out of S and pushed PU into HO mode. This in turn improves Gourgs chance of not encountering one of the only defensive stops to this set (Roselia). The monferno rise has actually helped gourg-s as it can sub on it (flare blitz or not) and seed it/disable flare blitz accordingly. Monferno can however mach punch to get out of the flare blitz disable, but if tspikes/seeds are up, Gourg-S wins this battle. With sub Vigoroth being so common and hard to deal, gourgeist-s's presence can be used to combat it and check it on the bulk up. In addition, if gourg can disable a subbed vigoroth frustration, you can switch out, break sub, and go into gourg again to plant seeds. This in turn will win you the match up without taking damage on the switch. Audino being PU's stall savior has also benefited tspike gourg-s teams because Gour-S does very well again a slow/passive playstyle. Lastly and most importantly, we received a sap sipper mon in tier shift. Bouff hard walls Gourg-S with this ability, however gourg can still win the matchup 1v1 with tspikes.
Synergy. This is where Gourg-S gets really fun and viable. On t-spikes teams, this mon is a monster. With the help of disable + tspikes, gourg can beat all of the grass mons it would normally have huge trouble with (minus roselia). I feel like this is where the set truly shines. In terms of the role it plays on teams, it can serve as a physical water check and lead vs many of the rockers (especially problem ones such as golem) giving it huge momentum going into the battle to soften your opponent's team. The grass mons that it has trouble with are easily walled by pawn/rose. Roselia can serve as the tspiker and pawn benefits from a defiant boost on the tspike defog as well as handling roselia for gourg. The infiltrator mons that gourg has trouble with (ninjask/jumpluff) are easily walled by rockers and sleep resist mons respectively (probo/golem/stunfisk/vigoroth/vullaby). Also protect allows Gourg to scout on bando ninjask. Bouffalant with sap sipper gives gourg a lot of problems, but with tspikes and mons like vullaby (which already cover its weaknesses) it can handle these threats decently well. One last thing that Gourg-S can do is kill stall fairly easily once tspikes are up. Because of its speed, gourg can sub on most mons on stall and whittle them with the above set. Disable helps for preventing consistent wishes and protect can stop defogs if followed by disable (keeping tspikes up). So all in all, there are several mons that give gourg-s a tremendous about of trouble 1v1. However, with a little team synergy and hazard stack, none of these mons are out of the realm of handling.
The last thing I want to show is some replays using Gourgy. I didn't play perfectly in these matches, but it shows just how intimidating gourg can be using the above strategies.
EDIT: I have found that being able to take a rotom-f tbolt in sub is quite useful, so here is an alternate set that is tailored to outspeed rotom-f and sponge tbolt most times without breaking sub. However, you lose speed and can no longer outspeed anything faster than timid rotom-f, which I believe are just leafeon, sawsbuck, articuno and swanna as far as viability goes.
It's been a while since I nominated anything to rise in viability. This is partly because I haven't been captivated by a mon's power in ages. However, I have finally found something that I'm enthusiastic about.
I wanna begin by saying that this thing is the absolute definition of annoying. This set is fairly standard as far as I'm aware but the changes in the meta are the true reasons why it deserves a bump up. The point of the set is to set up a sub on something that can't touch it and proceed to protect disable seed your way to victory. Gourg-S does well vs choice locked mons by subbing on something that can't touch it and protect/disabling the choiced mon after it has used the move that could touch gourg. This forces it to struggle and allows you to re-sub on its switch.
In terms of the meta changing, gourgeist-S has benefited greatly from the drops. Exeggutor and Pawniard being so common have threatened roselia out of S and pushed PU into HO mode. This in turn improves Gourgs chance of not encountering one of the only defensive stops to this set (Roselia). The monferno rise has actually helped gourg-s as it can sub on it (flare blitz or not) and seed it/disable flare blitz accordingly. Monferno can however mach punch to get out of the flare blitz disable, but if tspikes/seeds are up, Gourg-S wins this battle. With sub Vigoroth being so common and hard to deal, gourgeist-s's presence can be used to combat it and check it on the bulk up. In addition, if gourg can disable a subbed vigoroth frustration, you can switch out, break sub, and go into gourg again to plant seeds. This in turn will win you the match up without taking damage on the switch. Audino being PU's stall savior has also benefited tspike gourg-s teams because Gour-S does very well again a slow/passive playstyle. Lastly and most importantly, we received a sap sipper mon in tier shift. Bouff hard walls Gourg-S with this ability, however gourg can still win the matchup 1v1 with tspikes.
Synergy. This is where Gourg-S gets really fun and viable. On t-spikes teams, this mon is a monster. With the help of disable + tspikes, gourg can beat all of the grass mons it would normally have huge trouble with (minus roselia). I feel like this is where the set truly shines. In terms of the role it plays on teams, it can serve as a physical water check and lead vs many of the rockers (especially problem ones such as golem) giving it huge momentum going into the battle to soften your opponent's team. The grass mons that it has trouble with are easily walled by pawn/rose. Roselia can serve as the tspiker and pawn benefits from a defiant boost on the tspike defog as well as handling roselia for gourg. The infiltrator mons that gourg has trouble with (ninjask/jumpluff) are easily walled by rockers and sleep resist mons respectively (probo/golem/stunfisk/vigoroth/vullaby). Also protect allows Gourg to scout on bando ninjask. Bouffalant with sap sipper gives gourg a lot of problems, but with tspikes and mons like vullaby (which already cover its weaknesses) it can handle these threats decently well. One last thing that Gourg-S can do is kill stall fairly easily once tspikes are up. Because of its speed, gourg can sub on most mons on stall and whittle them with the above set. Disable helps for preventing consistent wishes and protect can stop defogs if followed by disable (keeping tspikes up). So all in all, there are several mons that give gourg-s a tremendous about of trouble 1v1. However, with a little team synergy and hazard stack, none of these mons are out of the realm of handling.
The last thing I want to show is some replays using Gourgy. I didn't play perfectly in these matches, but it shows just how intimidating gourg can be using the above strategies.
I can back this nom up in good conscience. Good speed tier, access to an array of team disrupting slots and the aforementioned speed to abuse said slots alongside reliable bulk and recovery makes Gourgeist-Small a very nice check to alot of the metas current threats. Good nom.
Leafeon from B to B+
This nomination is kind of a long overdue, as I'm not the only one that started recognizing the potential and both utility / power Leafeon can bring to the table. I decided to post this nomination since I had the opportunity during these weeks to try out two Leafeon's sets: the classic Swords Dance set, and another one which task being a bulky WishPasser, and it didn't disappoint, despite I ended up replacing the bulky set for Tangela :[, but I won't talk about the bulky set, as I think the set that makes Leafeon threatening and B+ worth is the SD one. Swords Dance Leafeon, after sun becoming less viable with the ban of Victreebel, kind of become an hidden and very underestimated pick, despite being pretty strong itself even without sun support. In fact, Leafeon still sits in a pretty good speed tier, reaching 317 Speed when running investments + Jolly nature, and that + things I'm going to list later on in the post allow it to be really threatening to bulky builds and cores that are getting more used because of drops such as Audino. Despite running Jolly, it still carries a surprisingly good 110 base Attack stat, which makes it hit extremely hard after setting up a Swords Dance. Finding a set up opportunity isn't that hard either, because of a whooping 130 base Defense that comes in hand often even if not running any investments, and its capability of forcing many switches due to access to an effective coverage in Leaf Blade + Knock Off, which hits most of the current metagame. To that, you can also add another coverage move such as X-Scissor that can be used to break through things such as Tangela or like Aerial Ace to get a KO on like Monferno, but I haven't tried that yet. As I already said, Leafeon is particularly effective against defensive builds, but it isn't underwhelming against offensive teams for sure: in fact, 95 base Speed is also enough to outspeed many offensive threats, and Sunny Day in 4th slot + Chlorophyll is a potentially good combo to screw most HO teams in the lategame, especially when running something such as Life Orb / Meadow Plate as item. Leafeon has plenty of choice regarding items, in fact, other than the two aforementioned items, Leafeon can also run things such as Yache and Occa Berry, which make it even more unpredictable and harder to revengekill(I've found Yache Berry pretty effective of late because of how popular Rotom-F and Floatzel are atm). Grass-type might sound flawed and not that great, but Leafeon is still able to provide a valuable Ground- and Water-type resist to offensive teams, so yeah B+ worth imo.
Purugly to B
Pugles got the short end of the stick when Pawniard dropped back down with people immediately stating pawn is just a better defiant user even so does that really make Purugly all that bad? Its still lightning quick and packs a punch with a silk scarf or life orb, access to knock off/U-Turn/Sucker Punch and Wake-Up Slap all provide a decent move selection along with supporting options such as taunt. Purugly didn't really need a drop since it just hasn't gotten less viable.
I feel like this nom is past overdue. Golem is clearly one of the best rockers in the tier (if not the best). It condenses so many roles for offensive or even balanced teams that I find it hard not to use it on every team. Serves as a flying, electric and normal check while still maintaining offensive pressure. It threatens most of the tiers defoggers (even vibrave fears explosion) while also threatening most relevant spinners. Weakness policy + sucker is the set that makes it the most effective though, easily setting rocks, and then threatening the mon in front of it with its dual stab and strong sucker punch. I honestly feel this is better than Relicanth or at the very least on the same level as it so it should be at least as high as it.
What do you even use for Stealth Rock over Golem? Stunfisk checks Electrics but also opens up free switches to stuff like Roselia and Exeggutor (Sludge Bomb punishes Exeggutor switches but at the cost of not having Toxic for the many things you can't do shit to with Stunfisk) and is terribly passive. Relicanth probably does well against Vigoroth which I imagine is the reason for its high ranking because it does shit all else. Golem has that perfect combination of ability to check important Pokemon, set up Stealth Rock reliably, and bring incomparable offensive pressure for a Stealth Rock setter all in one slot. I swear if Golem wasn't PU, I just wouldn't use Stealth Rock in this tier because the rockers here are really trash.
Ninjask should probably be somewhere in A. PU has tons of good Grass-types, which give Ninjask a chance to come in and start racking up damage and gaining offensive momentum. They also do a great job of threatening the few Rock-types in the tier that can consistently switch into Ninjask. The thing I really like about Ninjask is that it means pretty much the entire rest of my team can be slower than base 100 as long as I have some priority, which is great when teams usually have at least two of Floatzel, Raichu, Zebstrika, Jumpluff, Ninetales, Dodrio, Kadabra, etc. Electrode would be good too if teams weren't so well prepared for Electrics thanks to Raichu, Zebstraika, and Rotom-F.
I thought PU was a really diverse tier regarding SR users, I guess I was wrong all along...
nah but for real, I approve the nomination to A, but while I think Golem is one of the best Stealth Rock users in the tier right now and I'm starting to prefer it over like Stunfisk most of the time, it still receives competition by other Stealth Rock users such as the aforementioned Stunfisk, Relicanth, but also others such as Clefairy, Metang, Probopass, Solrock etc.
Stunfisk, for example, while it is more passive and bait for things such as Exeggutor and Roselia(the first is half true as most Stunfisks now run coverage to damage Eggy), it provides WAY more utility to the table than Golem. The ability to net paralysis thanks to Discharge + Static alone is pretty huge and a reason for Stunfisk to be ran on teams, as it also opens more possibilities regarding team synergy, for example with other Pokemon that can provide Thunder Wave / paralysis support, and slow sweepers that appreciate paraspam such as Mightyena. To this you can also add the fact that Stunfisk is a more reliable check to way bigger plethora of threats, specifically common physical attackers such as Pawniard and Monferno thanks to its decent typing.
Others I mentioned are also worth running depending on the team needs: Metang is nice as it is one of the few good Steel-types we have, isn't susceptible to Ice-types as Golem and Stunfisk, and access to Pursuit allows it to be a reliable answer to things such as Psychic-types, especially Grumpig, therefore makes it have nice synergy with Pokemon such as Ice-types themselves and Monferno.
Clefairy might look terrible on paper but similiarly to Stunfisk it is used more as an utility Stealth Rocker, taking advantage of its wide support movepool and typing, which gives it a resistance to Fighting-types, coming handy especially when facing damn Machoke, + the two types it is weak to are rather uncommon, making it hard to bring down along with reliable recovery. Probopass is good because provides Slow Volt switch + can trap things such as Pawniard with Magnet Pull which is pretty neat paired with like Swords Dance Leafeon and other stuff.
Solrock isn't that great but has an unique typing in the tier and ok bulk, allows it to check things such as Stoutland and Bouffalant, but also things such as Rapidash and Golem itself because of Levitate, even though it can be caught off guard by coverage moves given it is weak to common types such as Grass, Water, and Dark. Unique access to Will-O-Wisp among Stealth Rock users is also cool as that helps it being an efficient physical wall and have a good matchup against other SR users.
Relicanth has access to a really strong Rock-type STAB in Head Smash which proves itself to hit quite strong even when running a defensive set, also because Rock-type hits decently almost everything in the tier. Plus has great physical bulk and handful resistances, and can be quite unpredictable given it can run things such as Stealth Rock + Rock Polish, while access to Scald on defensive sets is another annoying as hell move that provides huge utility. Also it can be run on rain teams too i guess.
Gourgeist-S from B- to B
Leafeon from B to B+
Purugly from B- to B
Golem from A- to A
Glaceon from E to C-
All of these had reasoning posted except Glaceon, which I haven't personally used but a few council members have been using the Choice Specs set to moderate success, as it is very strong and has coverage for Grumpig and Metang, which wall (or check in Metang's case) most other viable Ice-types.
Also we've decided to order the Pokemon in B+ rank by viability. Just like all of the other ranks ordered by viability, this order will not be open for discussion in this thread, though the council will periodically update it. Here is the preliminary order:
Golduck from B+ to B
Golduck is best known for being a Self-Setting/Rain Sweeper and this role has been its main justifiable use in pu to stand out from all the other water-types we have to offer however ive found that Floatzel is just better in most circumstances over Golduck. Float doesn't hit as hard but its speed outside of rain is really the main selling point allowing it to not require rain support and while Golduck does have a nice speed tier (85) it misses the mark on so many threats before the rain is up most of which Floatzel does outspeed and kill. Ive probably undersold Golduck so much it is still a viable mon after all but i just don't see why it should be B+ when it suffers quite a bit of competition in its own role.
Lickilicky from B- to C+
I've been one of the few not sure on how Audino would affect Lickilicky in there role as just a Fat cleric and by now many of us know that Audino has shown to be superior in that role and while Lickilicky still has a niche in CBoom and some mixed or offensive sets i guess but it suffers even more competition in our massive selection of offensive Normal-Types this is just an unfortunate case of something better came along and former can no longer shine as anything in particular.
Drifblim from C+ to B-
Drifblim was something that got a lot of hype a while ago from Dodmen and ever since then Drifblim has been a favourite choice for many as an offensive spin-blocker. Drifblims interesting arsenal and rather flexible sets along with statpassing and the ability to run Physical/Special/Mixed sets this thing has a whole lot going for it combine that with nice offensive stats and speed with decent bulk (mostly from its fat hp stat) and a fantastic ability in Unburden Drifblim can force out/clean-up/pivot through-out matches and be quite the annoyance while doing so its main downside is its bulk is rather lackluster and it cannot hit with a full powered Acrobatics until its berry is eaten. Stealth Rock weakness is also something to consider however Drifblim has the ability to turn this into its advantage wittling itself down to berry range using its opponents hazard against them. Now this something i most likely overhyped but for such a unique mon with its typing, stats and niche nothing else can do it was kind of hard not to.
So this will probably be a bit controversial and I'm not 100% sure I agree with it myself, but it would be good to have discussion.
Rotom-F is insanely good in this meta. Both of its sets (including all variants of the sub set) have very little in the way of actual answers and are hard to both play around and accomodate during teambuilding (the latter is almost impossible). The only real flaw this mon has is the sr weakness, which can be accomodated for with not too much difficulty. The main reason this is so good is that it's an Electric type that easily beats almost every answer to other Electric types. This not only gives it few answers in general, but it makes it so that unlike other Electric types, it can easily wear down its counters with Volt Switch provided that Stealth Rock is off the field. The sub set can set a sub up on some of the most common Pokemon in the tier (Audino without Encore, Stunfisk without Sludge Wave) as well as on the huge amounts of switches it forces, and nearly always requires sacking at least one mon just to break its sub. This mon is pretty ridiculous and I could definitely see it in S.
Turn 12
Floatzel, come back!
Go! Audino!
Pointed stones dug into Audino!
The opposing Rotom-Frost used Thunderbolt!
A critical hit! Audino lost 41% of its health!
Audino restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 13
The opposing Rotom-Frost used Thunderbolt!
A critical hit! Audino lost 41% of its health!
Audino is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
Audino used Wish!
Audino restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 14
Audino is paralyzed! It can't move!
The opposing Rotom-Frost used Thunderbolt!
Audino lost 18% of its health!
I think the only thing that might honestly keep Rotom-F out of S is the fact that Blizzard WILL miss. Of course there are games you will hit the ones that matter but the inconsistency of it makes it somewhat difficult for me to see Rotom in S.
That's a valid argument, though I do want to say that Tauros was S for a really long time before we banned it despite it missing almost as much (and not having a 100% accurate secondary STAB like Rotom does).
So this will probably be a bit controversial and I'm not 100% sure I agree with it myself, but it would be good to have discussion.
Rotom-F is insanely good in this meta. Both of its sets (including all variants of the sub set) have very little in the way of actual answers and are hard to both play around and accomodate during teambuilding (the latter is almost impossible). The only real flaw this mon has is the sr weakness, which can be accomodated for with not too much difficulty. The main reason this is so good is that it's an Electric type that easily beats almost every answer to other Electric types. This not only gives it few answers in general, but it makes it so that unlike other Electric types, it can easily wear down its counters with Volt Switch provided that Stealth Rock is off the field. The sub set can set a sub up on some of the most common Pokemon in the tier (Audino without Encore, Stunfisk without Sludge Wave) as well as on the huge amounts of switches it forces, and nearly always requires sacking at least one mon just to break its sub. This mon is pretty ridiculous and I could definitely see it in S.
Turn 12
Floatzel, come back!
Go! Audino!
Pointed stones dug into Audino!
The opposing Rotom-Frost used Thunderbolt!
A critical hit! Audino lost 41% of its health!
Audino restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 13
The opposing Rotom-Frost used Thunderbolt!
A critical hit! Audino lost 41% of its health!
Audino is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
Audino used Wish!
Audino restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 14
Audino is paralyzed! It can't move!
The opposing Rotom-Frost used Thunderbolt!
Audino lost 18% of its health!
I agree with almost all your points (besides the "proof" part that is just bad hax)
Im honestly not sure what defines S rank right now for the majority of my time in PU its always been told that S is for the most meta-defining pokemon and while many can agree it is fantastic personally for me i dont really find it meta-defining more just another top mon we have. If S is just for ridiculously good pokemon right now it would honestly just be filled up with others like Golem and Machoke which many find as two of the biggest threats in PU despite the fact they can be be dealt with as goes for other pokemon.
