[QC Ready 2/3] Sylveon

[Governess]

[Pros]

<ul>
<li>Can run a decent support set with Wish</li>
<li>Great SpA and SpD</li>
<li>Decent coverage moves against Poison- and Steel-types</li>
<li>Can take the offensive route with Calm Mind as well</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>Subpar Speed to work with</li>
<li>Has a limited and undesirable abilities to choose from.</li>
<li>Strong physical attackers can easily plow through it<li>
<li>Even with offensive investment, Sylveon has trouble getting past bulky walls such as Hippowdon</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

<p>Sylevon @ Leftovers<br />
Ability: Cute Charm<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD <br />
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)<br />
- Wish<br />
- Protect<br />
- Moonblast<br />
- Shadow Ball / Hidden Power Fire</p>

• Great way to take advantage of Sylveon's great special bulk and support moves
• Basically the set supports the team with Wish support
• Partners would include offensive Pokemon who can sweep teams but cannot heal themselves (Lucario, Gyarados, Salamence)
• Magnezone works well in particular due to removing Steel-types for Sylveon and being immune to Poison-type
• C&C: Fast Taunt users such as Sableye and Crobat are good to consider because Sylveon is rather slow and becomes useless when it can't support the team
• Setup bait for hazard setters (Skarmory, Hippowdon) and setup Pokemon though due to its average offenses

<p>Sylevon @ Leftovers<br />
Ability: Cute Charm<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe <br />
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)<br />
- Calm Mind<br />
- Moonblast<br />
- Shadow Ball<br />
- Hidden Power Fire</p>

• Appears outclassed by other CM users such as Gardevoir, but its better physical bulk sets it apart
• This set was made to set up Calm Mind preferably mid- to late-game, as even with CM boosts Sylveon isn't strong enough to outright sweep teams
• Basic coverage moves against Poison- and Steel-types
• Good partners would include sweepers that could weaken the team for Sylveon, including Alakazam and Volcarona (can deal with Scizor, one Pokemon Sylveon would prefer to have gone before it sweeps)
• If it gets poisoned it's screwed, so status relief from Blissey (can even offer Wish) works wonders
• C&C - Gengar and Scizor by far the best checks for Sylveon; while it has the coverage moves to deal with them, they have the power and Speed to KO it
• If it lacks HP Fire any Steel-type in general could wall it
• Even with Defense investment most physical attackers will have no difficulty getting past it

[Checks and Counters]

• Aegislash, Lucario, Scizor, Metagross, other relatively strong Steel-types
• Gengar
• Bulky Pokemon such as Hippowdon, Blissey, Skarmory if Sylveon hasn't set up yet
• Physically strong Pokemon such as Gyarados, Garchomp, Mawile

 

[Governess]

I'd like input on the sets if possible to see what others think about them; otherwise I'm still testing.

 

[Halcyon.]

I'm unsure why I would use Sylveon over Gardevoir when going for a Calm Mind set. Gardevoir has higher Special Attack and Speed, and has Focus Blast in its movepool, meaning it isn't completely walled by Heatran, and has a much better ability in Trace. Sylveon has higher HP and Special Defense, but it still seems relatively outclassed in the role of CM sweeper. I'm not outright saying Sylveon shouldn't have a CM set, I'm genuinely just asking what the pros of using it over Gardevoir.

 

[Governess]

I'm unsure why I would use Sylveon over Gardevoir when going for a Calm Mind set. Gardevoir has higher Special Attack and Speed, and has Focus Blast in its movepool, meaning it isn't completely walled by Heatran, and has a much better ability in Trace. Sylveon has higher HP and Special Defense, but it still seems relatively outclassed in the role of CM sweeper. I'm not outright saying Sylveon shouldn't have a CM set, I'm genuinely just asking what the pros of using it over Gardevoir.

Halcyon. In those aspects, yes, Gardevoir does outclass Sylveon in terms of Speed, power, and offensive coverage, which I why I taken the path with focusing on more of bulk and being able to set up; for instance:

Calculations (Hope I did them right qq)[/hide

(changed the typing so that Bullet Punch would be super effective, as Gardevoir is now part Fairy)

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Gardevoir: 289-343 (86.52 - 102.69%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO

While this isn't even the right EVs for Gardevoir in a CM set (usually it runs an offensive 252/252 Speed / Attack EVs), this version of a Scizor could KO Gardevoir without too much trouble, granted there aren't any hazards on the field. However, for the set I'm proposing for Sylveon:

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def ---: 265-315 (67.25 - 79.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(once again, edited the stats [HP is now 95 for Sylveon] and nature for my specific set)

Which allows Sylveon to KO Scizor with HP Fire if it runs it, without hazards on the field. Also, Gardevoir would have trouble fitting Focus Blast into its set due to it having Sub to be able to set up CM, (It would have CM, STAB, STAB 2, filler) and without Sub, it would have trouble setting up due to its physical fratility. It also differentiates an OHKO on Gardevoir from a near 2HKO on Sylveon when a +2 Gyarados opposes them.

If this set is deed invalid, that's ok as well; TL;DR its main niche over Gardevoir is just being able to take physical hits much easier due to its EVs and higher HP.

 

[Bughouse]

Higher HP also means bigger Wishes. These sets are the only ones Sylveon can run that won't be outclassed by either Gardevoir or Florges, so I'm in strong agreement with what Governess did. (I do agree that Gardevoir probably does it better, but Sylveon isn't strictly outclassed in that role.)

As for the first set, I wonder if mono-attacking is really the way to go, but Sylveon is one of the only decent Heal Bell users, so I guess it's probably necessary to distinguish itself. I'd at least slash HP Fire or HP Ground with Heal Bell though (not Moonblast.)

 

[Governess]

srk1214 Yeah, I'm not fully convinced that it's the way to go either, but passing up Wish and Heal Bell for Sylveon isn't bright either, so I just went with it. I had Moonblast just for the good coverage it had, but with a tier full of Steel-types, it does make sense to go HP Ground or Fire (I'd only truly use ground for Heatran, though). I'll finish this up later tonight. :)

 

[Governess]

Alright, this is finished and ready to be looked at by QC! :)

 

[TROP]

Pc++ because i can. Heal Bell is illegal for Sylveon atm because Eeeve line can only get it from the BW2 or HGSS Tutor.

 

[Governess]

Thank you, TropiOUs; I fixed the set with that info in mind. :)

 

[Disaster Area]

So currently if we want to run heal bell with wishpassing then we have to go florges?

 

[Governess]

• Piexplode apparently so. Without Heal Bell, larger HP stat and better bulk is the only thing going for Sylveon at this point for support, which is a nice boon over Florges and Gardevoir.

 

[Snunch]

Mega Gengar is by far the most threatening pokemon to Sylveon right now, so Shadow Ball should be slashed in front of HP Fire on the defensive set to hit Gengar super effectively. It's a better coverage option than Psyshock because of Aegislash, and because there aren't any relevant offensive poison types yet other than Gengar, so it should similarly replace Psyshock on the CM set.

I want to talk to other QC about the EVs on the offensive set (max modest might be the right way to go) but other than that this looks good.

 

[Governess]

Thank you, and I add Shadow Ball in the suggested places on the two sets.

 

[Kavatika]

Heatran and Jirachi are currently unavailable, I'd recommend removing them from the set comments.

 

[PK Gaming]

Pixilate boosts the power of Fairy-type moves by 30%, so it isn't useless.

I also think that the CM set would be better if it used a more offensive spread (252 SpA / 252 Spe w/ a modest nature), because it's too weak in it's current state. Don't forget to remove mentions of illegal Pokemon.

 

[Governess]

Thank you, Kavatkia and PK; I removed all of the illegal Pokemon and adjusted the set's EVs and nature to an offensive spread. :) Akso, I fixed the wording so that Pixelate is not perceived as completely useless.

 

[alexwolf]

Purely offensive CM sets are outdone by Florges and Gardevoir. Either use a max HP / max SpA spread with 3 attacks or a max HP / max Def spread 3 attacks.

 

[Governess]

Mmk, I'll take the former EV spread, as Sylveon still needs that additional power, then.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

I don't really agree with maxing Sylveon's special defense...it's already quite high, and Sylveon would appreciate being able to switch into physical Dragon-, Fighting- and Dark-types, as well as stuff like Life Orb Latios' Psyshock, much more easily. 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef Bold seems like the best spread to me, but a Calm nature could work if Sylveon really needs to perform the role of "special wall".

Regardless, 252 HP / 252 SpDef is overkill, and I can't really pinpoint much that it walls that a spread with no Special Defense EVs can't wall.

 

[Halcyon.]

I agree with Super Mario Bro. I think a defensive set is the best choice for Sylveon. I've been using a stall team with Florges and quickly found that a defensive spread of 252 HP / 252 Def was much better than the specially defensive equivalent. Since those two are so similar in terms of stats, I would assume that the same applies for Sylveon. Since it takes half damage from Bug, Fighting, and Dark moves, which are primarily physical, I think it only makes sense to capitalize on these resistances by increasing Sylveon's defense.

 

[ninjawhitetiger]

Just one more thing to note, it has another niche over gardevoir if anyone on the team can lay down toxic spikes, Sylveon can do a great job at toxic stalling with a CM, protect, wish, Leftovers combo, and it can play the same role as alomola did in NU during gen 5, of course this takes away quite a bit of coverage, but i think sylveon is clearly a support based pokemon and is never going to be viewd as an immediate threat

 

[PK Gaming]

I agree with SMB; I think Sylveon has a lot more to gain from maxing def rather than SpD. It's SpD is already fairly high, and Def investment would actually let it take resisted hits (most of which are physical!)

You forgot to changed Cute Charm to Pixilate on both sets.

 

[Ckarasu]

Round can be used to hit through subs, having a 119-ish BP after Pixelate and STAB. Just an option until Hyper Voice comes out.

 

[Governess]

Ok, updated the sets with the suggested listed above. :)

 

[nikovan]

I know for a fact that Pixilate gives a 30% boost to Normal moves after turning them to Fairy, but I don't think Pixilate boosts all fairy type moves.

So unless you are running a normal move to retype, Cute Charm would be the better option.