QC Round 3 - remlabme

[remlabmez]

Remlabmez: Weavile, Zapdos, Abomasnow, froslass

Pre-Test notes!

Weavile

• Everything looks good to be honest, lead would have to be decided by QC team most likely but I will test.
• Everything about weavile was fine, it did was it could do best during testing.

Zapdos

• Choice set should be 252 speed EVs with a timid as main nature, for both choice specs and scarf.
• I think agility sweeper should be taken out of analysis, seems pretty gimmicky, I will test this set to see if I am proven wrong.
• Agility and sub baton pass sets should be merged as one
• MS Dos I have no clue about to be honest, just something I have to test and find out the hard way.
• Zapdos was taken care of by snorlaxe

Abomasnow

• Swords dance aboma seems pretty bad on paper, will test but leaning to remove this.
• Swords Dance aboma was awful, removing please
• subseeder set looks fine, I was going to mention something about a calm aboma but it is mentioned in the description
• Needs a calm mention like I said before, I prefer using a calm nature on sub aboma.
• Remove choice specs
• Of course choice specs was just as awful as SD, maybe even worse as a pokemon weak to sr being locked in on a move is pretty bad

Froslass

• Shadowball slashed in along side with destiny bond on lead, everything looks good on this set
• everything is pretty much good to go

Final version will be in this text

 

[Snorlaxe]

Yay Weavile! Anyway, as the person in charge of the Zapdos Update, I have to say that Agility sweeper is actually pretty cool. With it, Zapdos outspeeds stuff like fucking +1 DD Mence after a boost all day, and if you run Life Orb or whatever, then you're hitting basically every Pokemon who you encounter for a large chunk of damage. In my Update (which is currently still sitting in C&C -.-), I've already merged the Agility and Substitute Baton Passer sets, so that's taken care of. I've also taken the liberty of removing Metal Sound Zapdos; it really wasn't too impresive, and even though it works decently if you manage to get like three layers of Spikes down or something, it still requires a LOT of team support to be good -.- As for the Choice set thing, I'll make that change in my analysis right now.

As opposed to slashing Shadow Ball on Froslass, I think a simple mention in Additional Comments will be sufficient. Destiny Bond is one of the main reasons to use Froslass as a Spiker imo (that and her Speed), and I think it's probably superior enough to Shadow Ball to have it not be slashed, but rather just talking about in Additional Comments.

EDIT: it seems as if I already had 252 Speed EVs and Timid as the main nature for the Choice set, so that means that once my analysis gets uploaded, Zapdos will basically be good-to-go from a Quality Control standpoint (unless you choose to remove the Agility set, hoping you don't). ^_^

EDIT2: yeah, actually Agility sweeper isn't that good anymore... I removed it from my update, but I'll wait until you've finished testing to do anything else

 

[remlabmez]

I trust your word on the agility set and all the work you have done, meaning I dont really have to do anything with zapdos ^_^

QC members can decide if 252 speed timid should be on choice set

 

[Philip7086]

Yes, 252 Spe IMO. BS son, I am having trouble believing the Agility sweeper set is very good. Test that shizz :P

 

[eric the espeon]

Maybe try out Expert Belt on the Revenge killer Weavile set? Ashib made the case for it here, and it seems like a fun Pokemon to bluff CB with (plenty of Pokemon would love to set up on choiced Ice Shard/dark move, far fewer want to take a targeted hit in the face).

 

[cim]

MS-Dos works on an interesting, kinda sorta weird level last time I tested it. You kinda have to build a semistallish team around it for it to be any good but in that limited context it helps with counters it outspeeds in particular (Tyranitar, Blissey, etc) by forcing them around. I'll test it and get back to you, I really think it's not the kind of thing you can test just by putting it on a team and firing away.

 

[remlabmez]

bump for deadline updates

 

[MetaNite]

I have used Swords Dance Abomasnow for a long time and the only way you can say it is outright awful is if you are using it wrong. No, it's not the next Lucario but being able to reliably revenge kill Salamence should make it at least half-decent. If you don't mind, I'd like to get logs to prove to you it is not nearly as bad as you think. Furthermore, maybe you should leave more of a comment than simply "was awful, removing please"

 

[Setsuna]

I have used Swords Dance Abomasnow for a long time and the only way you can say it is outright awful is if you are using it wrong. No, it's not the next Lucario but being able to reliably revenge kill Salamence should make it at least half-decent. If you don't mind, I'd like to get logs to prove to you it is not nearly as bad as you think. Furthermore, maybe you should leave more of a comment than simply "was awful, removing please"

I'll answer this for you. Firstly, Abomasnow doesn't need to use the Swords Dance set in order to revenge kill Salamence, and the fact that Ice Shard is probably the move that makes this set be kind of considerable is a pretty mediocre reality, in my opinion. In addition to this, you can't state that "the only way one can say this set is awful is because it's not being used properly", since you first need to consider a lot more of details, and apparently, you have not done so. Pokemon such as Heatran, Lucario, Scizor, Skarmory, Bronzong, Jirachi, Infernape, Metagross, Rotom-A (should I continue?) can perfectly revenge kill SD Abomasnow or in some cases switch in for free and shut him down with no problems at all. Furthermore, Abomasnow's subpar base Speed added to the fact that every type of priority moves (barring Aqua Jet) can hit him for supper effective or neutral damage make this set be even more awful... In all seriousness, Swords Dance Abomasnow is far from deserving the current analysis that's on-site.

 

[MetaNite]

Use Earthquake on the switch??? Dead Heatran, Lucario, and Infernape with a severely weakened Jirachi to go along (75% min to Choice Scarf set) and Tyranitar (66% min, Seed Bomb / Wood Hammer will OHKO). This would be using Abomasnow to the best of its ability, instead of Swords Dancing and then dieing next turn like I'm sure the all knowing QC members do. Plus, a +2 Earthquake kills Metagross, so unless it has a lot of Speed EVs or Bullet Punch you should win against it. Offensive Rotom-A takes 57% minimum from an Ice Shard, while slower defensive variants are outsped and taken out by +2 Wood Hammer (or Seed Bomb but it needs to be at 74% health or less). Okay so, you killed their Heatran already and now they bring in a Lucario to revenge kill you. What do you do? Switch out! Genius, I know right? If they need to rely on Lucario now to beat you, that means they can't switch in. Wonderful! Then let's not forget the hail damage adding up every turn. Now how would a stall team handle Abomasnow? Let's see, Blissey comes in to take a Blizzard. Whoops! Dead. In comes Gyarados who can't do much damage at all with Waterfall. It takes a hefty chunk and then Roars it away, not really solving the problem if you have a decent Rapid Spinner. Or alternatively, Rotom-A comes in, another mistake. Hippowdon? No problem. The only real problem a stall team gives Abomasnow is Skarmory. Hopefully you have a MixMamo to lure and take it out or a Magnezone, or a Starmie, or a Rotom-F. You name it.

Luring and killing Heatran and/or Infernape, Lucario, Tyranitar, and Jirachi while checking the ever dangerous Suicune, Starmie, and most importantly Salamence while supporting your hail team with hail. This seems to warrant a set on a certain BL Pokemon that needs some love eh? Maybe we can work out a compromise? Looking into a mix abomasnow set.

 

[Setsuna]

Did you read that I expressly said "or in some cases switch in for free"? -__- For your information, in case you are not aware of, Adamant 252 Spe Abomasnow reaches a maximum of 219 of Speed, which is so slow that Ice Shard and prediction are the only things that possibly save him. At this moment, the most used Pokemon in OU are Scizor, Heatran, Infernape, Tyranitar, Jirachi, Rotom-A, to name the firsts on the list, and they all happen to be able to destroy Abomasnow. Moreover, this Pokemon presents a considerable weakness to Stealth Rock, takes damage from every type of hazard, and is weak to almost every priority move out there, what does this say to you? You can obviously argue that you can predict and EQ Heatran (etc) on the switch but I can also play wisely and prevent you from doing this. However, this matter of prediction doesn't work for considering an analysis to be on-site or not, it's just not enough; what matters here is that Abomasnow needs his teammates to get rid of the most important Pokemon of the metagame in order to have some chances of success at using Sowrds Dance. Period.

 

[Bologo]

I personally don't think that the SubSeed Abomasnow should even have 252 SpA/252 Spe as the main spread. I've been trying 252 HP/252 SpD Sassy on my SubSeed Abomasnow, and it's quite frankly amazing. This spread basically lets Abomasnow counter any specially-based Water type out there, and being able to counter Jolteon, Blissey, and any HP Ice-using Grass types is quite handy too. This also makes it so that random HP Fires won't be OHKOing it. In fact, it takes a hell of a lot of special attack to guarantee a OHKO on this spread with a Fire attack. I use Sassy because I don't really want to lower my Attack so that Focus Punch can do reasonable damage, and the Speed isn't really needed. Blizzard is still doing a hell of a lot of damage to Grass types that try to come in and take a Leech Seed, and it still really hurts frail sweepers too.

I personally just think that Abomasnow should leave the fast SubSeeding to fast pokemon, and that he should instead make use of his nice HP and Special Defense as the main spread.

 

[Philip7086]

I agree with Bologo on the spread change for SubSeed Aboma.

As for Swords Dance, I really fail to see how it works well outside of a surprise switch-in KO. On offensive teams, everything will outspeed and KO back (sure you can switch out, but the gig is up, and you won't be getting away with any surprise kills anymore), and versus defensive teams, you won't really be damaging things like Skarmory very hard. Honestly, I just don't see it.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Yeah, Swords Dance gets a no from me. It's too slow, and if the key to making it work is to have the prediction skills of a god and EQ Heatran every time it comes in, then I'm far from convinced of its sweeping skills.

 

[remlabmez]

MetaNite you kind of proved my point, needing to switch out as an SD user while being weak to SR is pretty lame, not something I would ever want on my team. Spamming EQ and hoping for a surprise kill on heatran is something that can be done without SD and no I dont save logs of me testing QC pokemon on ladder to prove it wasnt a great pokemon.

also I agree with that bologo said