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Quagsire's successor; Kyogre's new arch nemesis

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by locopoke, Oct 30, 2010.

  1. locopoke

    locopoke indulges in unsavory behavior
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    Aug 18, 2007
    Gen 5 ubers team

    Tyranitar (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Atk / 88 SAtk / 80 SDef
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Fire Blast
    - Payback
    - Stealth Rock
    - Superpower

    Tyranitar is probably the best lead in Ubers, it beats most of the common leads and prevents multiple layers of hazards. EVs allow him to OHKO Deoxys-S with Payback and survive Focus Blast 100% of the time and OHKO Darkrai with Superpower. While also allowing me to bring Sturdy Forretress down to 1% with Fire Blast, I generally use Payback first to break Sturdy and then Fire Blast for the KO. Most Forretress hold Custap Berry and using Payback means that they're essentially going to get 1 less layer down than if I had Fire Blasted right off the bat.

    Tyranitar pretty much handles all leads but I need to watch out for Deoxys-A as it sometimes carries Superpower. Kyogre and Groudon are also troublesome and force me to switch, but for the latter if I'm feeling ballsy I'll stay in and use Stealth Rock as they generally expect a switch and use Stealth Rock as well. Against Kyogre, I switch to Nattorei and get free layers of Spikes.

    Nattorei (M) @ Shed Shell / Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Spikes
    - Power Whip
    - Toxic
    - Gyro Ball

    On the Gen 4 version of this team I had Skarmory in this spot, I added Nattorei to help deal with Zekrom who, without Nattorei, could pick this team apart easily. Nattorei is a great spiker and generally gets more than one layer in every battle. I use Shed Shell for Shandera which I haven't seen yet so I'm considering using Leftovers. While being very defensive, Nattorei is also quite powerful and can deal a lot of damage to Kyogre and Groudon with Power Whip as well as being able to fire off STAB Gyro Ball attacks with 40 speed to severely damage anything with above average speed. He's also a good Palkia / Giratina-O counter.

    I currently use Toxic but am considering replacing it with Leech Seed.

    Gastrodon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Recover
    - Yawn
    - Ice Beam

    Gastrodon is pretty nifty. If you didn't realize by the title, I used to have Quagsire here in Gen 4. Now that Storm Drain gives an immunity to Water attacks and raises special attack by 1 stage I figured I'd give Gastrodon a shot. It has more HP and special defense than Quagsire and with 88 defense EVs it has higher defense as well. It's job is to basically switch into Kyogre and take advantage of the situation by using Yawn on whatever switches in to cause switches and rack up entry hazard damage. Gastrodon is very bulky and can also deal with some other special attackers like Dialga and Palkia. Gastrodon is very bulky and takes people by surprise. He can take Draco Meteors from Dialga and Palkia and Recover the damage, forcing them to switch out.

    I could use Quagsire in this spot, but the only thing Quagsire has over Gastrodon is Encore which is essentially useless now that it's duration has been reduced from 5-8 turns to 3. As mentioned above, Gastrodon has more overall bulk.

    Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 244 Atk / 252 SAtk / 12 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Outrage

    Basic spin blocker set, also a monstrous hard hitting sweeper. Giratina-O often serves as my last resort answer for RP Groudon if Kyogre is down, as it can survive LO Dragon Claw even after SR damage. Amazing powerhouse and it can take some hits as well. This team has a big Ho-Oh weakness so sometimes I end up relying on this guy to take a Brave Bird and then KO with Outrage. Just a great Pokemon to have on any team. 12 speed is to outrun Jibaku's which has 8 speed. I'm sure before I know it people will be running 16 speed or 32 or some shit.

    Dialga @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Aura Sphere
    - Fire Blast

    Great revenge killer. Reason for using Dialga over Palkia is for SD Rayquaza and Lucario where the resistance to Normal-type moves comes in handy. Dialga is good for picking things off with Draco Meteor and then switching out. Sometimes I can even orchestrate a sweep with Dialga by racking up enough damage on all of my opponent's Pokemon with entry hazards and then cleaning up with Dragon Pulse. Considering Outrage somewhere on this to help with Blissey and stall in general but I don't know what I'd remove for it.

    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Roar
    - Surf

    I kind of put Kyogre here because I had no idea what to use but much to my surprise it works really well. Roar is great for this team and most people don't even expect it coming from Kyogre. Kyogre also serves as my main Ho-Oh check who is really hard to take down. If they have a sub up then I'll roar them which means they come back taking 50% from SR, if they don't have a sub I just use Surf for the KO. Kyogre also kills RP Groudon, if it's dead my backup is Giratina-O. Great at walling shit and shuffling Pokemon to rack up entry hazard damage. Walled by the obvious stuff(Palkia, Dialga, anything that resists water).
  2. Curtains


    Jul 6, 2009
    This is a nifty team but you have issues with recovering stat uppers like rest calm mind kyorge after naittori dies.Opposing stall is difficult for this team to beat.Mix jirachi can be a pain for this team because its so unexpected. id replace tyranitar with a polytoad or another pokemon so you dont die to that mole pokemon.
  3. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    Jan 18, 2009
    Mix Rachi is not getting through Kyogre.

    Also he has Kyogre, there is absolutely no need for Politoed. -_-
  4. Jibaku

    Jibaku Who let all these plants survive??
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    Dec 13, 2005
    I guess this isn't much of a rate since this team looks pretty good and only has a few flaws from what I can see anyways. So to recap everything I've said on irc

    Leech Seed > Toxic on Nattorei. You already have a Toxicer and Leech Seed helps make up for the lack of recovery. Furthermore, Leech Seed aids Nattorei in doing something to Specs Dialga (who could almost completely steamroll your team atm with just Dragon Pulse), Bulk Up Dialga (who gives issues when your Scarf Dialga is weak or dead), and Steel Arceus (who will give your team issues in rain, since it can Roar Kyogre away before Kyogre can).

    I'd consider Boiling Water (Boil Over, whatever), over Surf on Kyogre to help patch up against Steel Arceus to an extent. Between burn and Leech Seed, it'll take 25% per turn, forcing Arceus to constantly Recover.
  5. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    Ubers Co-Leader

    Jan 18, 2009
    I don't agree with dropping Toxic since otherwise CM Grass Arceus 6-0es this team. It can literally set up on anything and you can't touch it aside from Giratina-O's Outrage. I would actually put it over Power Whip as you have Groudon/Kyogre handled well enough and you need Gyro Ball more for DD Rayquaza. Leech Seed however is very helpful for the reasons Jibaku mentioned.

    Also I second the suggestion of Boiling Water>Surf.

    This is a pretty nice team, Gastrodon is a cool Pokemon. :)
  6. calze6


    Nov 28, 2009
    Nice team! I'd personally take out dragon pulse on dialga for outrage as I see little need of being locked onto dragon pulse as you can hit and run with DM and outrage is generally more useful if dialga is trying to sweep. It also OHKOS latias. The downside, though is that you cannot switch.

    What is the point of having EVs to OHKO forry if all forrys run sturdy? I suggest removing the SAtk EVs.

    I have a problem with gastrodon. It was only encore that really helped counter kyogre. Without encore, sub CM kyogre sweeps you. Therefore, I don't think that gastrodon works.

    Finally, if you are in search of the BEST spin blocker, try shadow tag shandera. It can trap AND kill forry.
  7. trickroom

    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 13, 2009
    Nice team there. I am unsure about the usefulness of Gastrodon though. Reshiram can wreck Gastrodon with Draco meteor or ram it with Outrage. Dragon dance Rayquaza destroys the team if it managed to set up and ohkoing Nattorei with overheat. Swords dance Arceus can be a problem if Nattorei is weaken enough
  8. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    Jun 21, 2010
    Gastrodon is there simply as a kyogre counter. I'd reccomend trying Boil over in place of Ice Beam, because of stab and rain boost.

    Leech Seed over Toxic on Nattoerei. It lets him have some sort of recovery and you already have Toxic and Yawn.

    Hmm, as I was writing this post, I noticed that the main threats to the team are Setup sweepers (pretty much threats to any uber team) like Arceus and Rayquaza. And, Using Quagsire, with Unaware isnt a half-bad Idea. Most of your team resist pretty much all of Kyogre's main attacks between them.

    Ice Punch KO's Rayquaza after Rocks and LO damage.
    Boiling water could be used for burn chance.
    Then Recover, and maybe a support move like Yawn or Encore.

    I havent looked into it too much, but its worth considering

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