Rarely Used (RU) Tier

[Hot N Cold]

Yanmega is very strong in the RU tier, I think it should UU but isnt problem for me.

 

[His Eminence Lord Poppington II]

oh, so strong

 

[GtM]

Is Lumineon viable at all in this tier? With Storm Drain to switch into bulky waters and Substitute to block status, it could possibly become a pretty good special attacker, despite having only base 69 SpA.

Lumineon @ Life Orb
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Grass

The main (and only advantage) it holds over Gastrodon is its high base speed of 91, which lets it outspeed a lot of RU threats. Crucially, it allows it to completely block status from bulky waters. With Storm Drain activated, it has an effective Special Attack stat of 389, which should be enough. Whilst it doesn't have the amazing power or STAB of Gastrodon, its speed allows it to get two hits on opponents that Gastrodon would only be able to get one on, arguably giving it a small niche. If you're a lunatic, other coverage options include Psybeam, Ominous Wind and Signal Beam.

I suppose the fact that Blastoise gets Roar would make this kind of moot, however. :(

 

[DTC]

Sigh.... Why do I even.... When Yanmega first started being played, everyone was saying how broken it would be. Quite a few were scrambling to change their teams to beat yanmega directly and were looking for counters to it. Same with Cress. Now, nobody is talking about yanny and it's died down. Meanwhile, people are still talking about cress. And what about eviolite bronzor and ferroseed? Cant it counter yanmega? Yanmega usually runs protect, air slash, giga drain, and bug buzz. Only one move is effective per pokemon. And what about after yanmega gets a KO? If it's speed boost, just send in cress. It can survive bug buzz and then hit back with ice beam. And if it's a spec, then just send in something that is faster than it. That's how I kill yanmega. And set up rocks, duh. Then priority kills it. So there you go.

Eviolite Bronzor gets 2HKO'd by Specs and can't really do anything back. So as Ferroseed. Cressilia shouldn't even go near Specs. It can't even do anything to LO Speed boost. Priority is unreliable for killing Yanmega, especially speed boost since those usually invest in bulk. (It's worth investing in bulk for speed boost btw) Stealth Rock isn't reliable for killing Yanmega, a lot of Yanmega users use a rapid spinner...or two. (Using Claydol and Blastoise on the same team is actually pretty good with all the super power flying types running around.) And good luck setting Rocks if Yanmega comes out first. And sending something faster then Yanmega isn't a reliable way of killing it at all, they would get KO'd trying to switch in so you'd have to sac something which is revenging not countering.

Both sets have two different counters, one can't be outsped after a few boosts and has investment in bulk usually and has a recovery option (giga drain) while the other just hits extremely hard and barley cares about pokemon resisting it. Only 3 pokemon can counter all of his sets and they have a tad bit of trouble doing it. Two of them lose their effectiveness because they are clerics and one lacks instant recovery and still takes quite a bit from Yanmega's attacks. They all have to dedicate a moveslot to counter him too. Clefable needs fire blast, Lickilicky needs rock slide, and Munchlax needs rock slide. (Unless of course Munchlax wants to rely on body slam's paralysis which is a crappy way of countering Yanmega.) And the worst part is Lickilicky and Clefable don't have a perfect chance of beating Yanmega. If Yanmega happens to use Air Slash Clefable only has a 55% chance of beating Yanmega and Lickilicky 60%. (Because of the nasty air slash flinch and their somewhat low accurcey moves they beat Yanmega with.)

Yanmega has a pretty decent physical defense for a sweeper, his special defense is lacking but the physical defense he has is good enough to survive the few hits that can manage to come his way usually.

 

[Furosuto]

@ Master Win: Talk of Yanmega and Cresselia have both died down. In fact discussion in general has died down I think because people are waiting for an official forum and suspect tests to begin. And everything that can be said about these Pokemon has already been said.

I think most people will have the opinion that Yanmega is broken, and there are solid arguments for why it is broken. To save some time, it's basically because of Tinted Lens and it's great power output, thus preventing any sort of safe switch in.

Some people may find Cresselia broken. The argument here isn't as clear imo, because Cresselia is just a bulky Pokemon. CM variants lack power so many viable Pokemon can come in and phaze it away, or haze it, Taunt it, set up alongside it or just outright kill it. Most Dark types, Water types, and Psychic types can win against it one on one and I'm not talking about a gimmicky eviolite thing either. Alakazam, Gallade, Drapion, Honchkrow (with Taunt and Roost), Blastoise, Crawdaunt, Sharpedo, Ferroseed... hell even Weezing can stop it dead (if the enemy Cresselia carries Psychic then you should just forfeit in awe of their power). Munchlax of course, being the best special wall in the tier, can give Cresselia a head start of +6 then come in to pick on something its own size. Need I mention Quagsire? Or SubSeed? Or Trick? So CM Cresselia is just another bulky booster that can be slapped around by almost anything not weak to it. In fact, it is pretty ordinary as a Pokemon and doesn't possess anything to distinguish it from other wannabe CroCunes...

Now we get to the support sets and here things get interesting. The power of Cresselia to guarantee a dual screen set up for the team because of its bulk and it's access to instant healing as well as good support options in Thunder Wave and Lunar Dance really sets it apart. This set is definitely a pain because Cresselia itself is ridiculously hard to OHKO so it is inevitable that it will give your opponent some sort of advantage before going down. If it even does go down. I can see how Cresselia is bordering on broken in this role because it can come in easily and set up support for your opponent to take advantage of, while you can do little about it. Cresselia doesn't have infinite healing, Moonlight's PP is a measly 8, so it can be stalled out if need be and support variants aren't going to be doing much damage in the meantime so there are pros and cons to using it.

This really requires more investigation I think, because how much advantage does Cresselia really bring? Would a team with defensive Cresselia really fare better than defensive Claydol? The team with Claydol will pack Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock of course but Cresselia's team will feature an almost guaranteed screens set up. The two teams will likely have different strategies to capitalise on the different benefits that these two Pokemon bring. I honestly think Cresselia and Claydol are quite evenly matched and I'm actually finding Claydol the more useful Pokemon. They compete with each other for a similar teamslot but bring different skills to the table. I'd be more than happy to keep it like that. Nothing solid has been presented to suggest that Cresselia is breaking the tier into it and its counters. At least not yet.

Hmmmm, I see what you mean No Luck. I guess I just have better luck with yanmega than with cress. But now I'm running gallade so it shouldn't be a problem. I will admit, Yanmega is a powerhouse on most teams and it does get recognition as being powerful. But also, in every tier there is a mon that is considered "broken". Sometimes, it could be a mon that focuses on weather (Excadrill). But without weather it is something quite underwhelming. In the 4th gen, a ton of OU teams ran scizor which was a common threat to most teams. Heck, Salamence was proving so powerful that it got moved to ubers. But that's just the thing. Every tier has a powerful pokemon that takes a long time to stop. And there will always be the players who think that just because THEY can't beat that certain one, it should be moved up. Every tier has that. And I'm accepting the fact that there's one even in RU. Anyways, I think that's enough of the Yanmega/Cresselia moving to UU talk for now.

 

[Hitmonchan_for_Ou]

jynx is really viable in this tier.
Jynx timid life orb
252 speed 252 spa 4 hp
lovely kiss/hp fire/ice beam/focus blast
Rock types like kabutops cant threaten you because of lovely kiss and focus blast.
I always set up dual screens before sending out jynx though.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

jynx is really viable in this tier.
Jynx timid life orb
252 speed 252 spa 4 hp
lovely kiss/hp fire/ice beam/focus blast
Rock types like kabutops cant threaten you because of lovely kiss and focus blast.
I always set up dual screens before sending out jynx though.

right...

so we also ignore the fact that the 2 moves you use to deal with Kabutops have 70 Accuracy. :/

 

[DTC]

Jynx isn't exactly that viable in a tier that stealth rocks are running all over the place and where there a ton of bug, fire, and rock types too. Jynx gets outsped and OHKO'd by a ton of common pokemon and has a lot of trouble getting past quite a few walls. Jynx is also (for the most part) outclassed by Alakazam. Jynx's speed is only decent and it doesn't really have the raw power to back it up (Like Porygon-Z) and it has an awful typing, not to mention almost non existent physical defence and a still not amazing special defence.

The top 10 pokemon have no trouble at all beating Jynx 1 on 1 (Except maybe Porygon-Z, but relying on focus miss to beat it isn't exactly the best way...plus quite a few Porygon-Z are scarfed). (Unless of course it gets to set up a sub which isn't exactly that hard with lovely kiss but then you either lack one STAB or lack a coverage moves)

 

[melvni]

right...

so we also ignore the fact that the 2 moves you use to deal with Kabutops have 70 Accuracy. :/

Excuse me good sir, Lovely Kiss has 75% accuracy. Clearly this completely invalidates your criticism of him entirely, especially with Jynx's amazing 272/212 Physical Bulk when Reflect is active.

 

[Shiki1335]

Yanmega really isnt a problem for me. I run a Eviolite bulky shed skin dragonair to counter and she works 99% of the time or porygon.

 

[Skwog]

Yanmega really isnt a problem for me. I run a Eviolite bulky shed skin dragonair to counter and she works 99% of the time or porygon.

From personal use, Dragonair isn't even close to a counter to Yanmega. It hardly even checks it. Sure it might survive a hit, but it doesn't pressure Yanmega out while it sits there and KO's you.

 

[Shiki1335]

twave+ ice beam = easy way to kill yanmega.

 

[DTC]

Choice Specs Modest Yanmega's Bug Buzzes do 41-49% damage to Eviolite 252 HP/252 +Special Defense Dragonair...meanwhile all Dragonair can do is paralyze it and then either the switch in will get killed (Or weakened and Yanmega successfully crippled 2 pokemon on the opponents team)or Dragonair will have to let itself get defeated. Porygon does survive the hit better but it also can't do much back.

Both Dragonair and Porygon can't even OHKO if they try to attack back at Yanmega. (And yes even at +1 Porygon's Thunderbolt only does about 55-65% damage) Dragonair's fire blast only does 60-71% damage to Yanmega. Yanmega has about a 50% chance to KO Dragonair if Rocks are up before Dragonair gets to status Yanmega. Plus just because you status something doesn't mean you beat it...Yanmega is still incredibly threatening even when paralyzed.

Plus both of those pokemon are very rarely seen in the RU metagame so relying on not so useful and rarely seen pokemon to check Yanmega won't help you much...

 

[THATSAplusONE]

twave+ ice beam = easy way to kill yanmega.

Yanmega=easy way to kill yanmega.

 

[Furosuto]

Hmmmmm.... What about typhlosion as a counter to yanmega? With choice scarf, typhlosion should be able to outspeed speed boost yanny and KO with eruption or fire blast. Now, I'm not very good with calcs. After one speed boost, what will yanny's base speed be boosted to from 95? Cause I'm pretty sure it won't go over typhlosion's base 150 (which is after scarf).

 

[athleteandy1]

Hmmmmm.... What about typhlosion as a counter to yanmega? With choice scarf, typhlosion should be able to outspeed speed boost yanny and KO with eruption or fire blast. Now, I'm not very good with calcs. After one speed boost, what will yanny's base speed be boosted to from 95? Cause I'm pretty sure it won't go over typhlosion's base 150 (which is after scarf).

A Scarfed Typhlosion doesn't have the equivalent of base 150 Spe. However, after 1 Speed Boost, it (Yanmega) still gets outsped by Scarf (Timid. I say this because mine is Modest to get more power) Typhlosion. But since most carry Protect, the Yanmega could kill something / attack as Typhlosion switches in, then Protect to get up 2 Speed Boosts and outspeed Typhlosion.

 

[DTC]

Scarf Typhlosion is a pretty good counter to Yanmega. It just has to avoid being hit by Hidden Power Ground/Rock on the switch and make sure that Stealth Rock is not on the field with Tinted Lens Yanmega.

Speed Boost Yanmega can't OHKO Typhlosion with hidden power and usually investing in bulk is more worthwhile for speed boost. (Since it outspeeds nearly everything at +2 and the bulk comes in handy with surviving priority and other attacks since Speed Boost doesn't have the raw power Tinted Lens has)

So Typhlosion can defeat Tinted Lens Yanmega as long as Stealth rocks aren't on the field and it doesn't switch in on hidden power ground/rock and it can beat any speed boost Yanmega lacking those moves too. (And it has to switch into one of those moves)

A bit risky of a counter but it still works.

 

[Furosuto]

A Scarfed Typhlosion doesn't have the equivalent of base 150 Spe. However, after 1 Speed Boost, it (Yanmega) still gets outsped by Scarf (Timid. I say this because mine is Modest to get more power) Typhlosion. But since most carry Protect, the Yanmega could kill something / attack as Typhlosion switches in, then Protect to get up 2 Speed Boosts and outspeed Typhlosion.

It isn't? Oh darn. Seeing as it has a base 100 speed and scarf boosts speed by half of that, I thought 150 would be it. Wonder where I wen't wrong..... Now see, once a typhlosion begins wreaking havoc with eruption, there's little to stop it. So you would make sure the rocks and resisting type pokemons are off the field. Then you hit with typhlosion. Yanny comes in. It protects and gets one speed boost. You still outspeed and kill with eruption.

 

[No Luck Involved]

You're not accounting for nature and EVs in your calculation. To simulate having a beneficial nature and max EVs, you have to add 50 to the base stat. Thus giving Typhlosion 150 'normalised' speed. Then apply the choice scarf boost which brings it to 225. To find out what speed tier that is equivalent to, simply take 50 away from that to remove the beneficial nature and EVs and you get 175. Thus a Timid Scarf Typhlosion has roughly the equivalent speed of a base 175 speed Pokemon.

Of course that calculation isn't necessary at all because Typhlosion naturally outspeeds Yanmega which would remain the case if both were at +1 given the same EVs... And it is even more unnecessary considering the fact that most Yanmega don't opt to max out speed. And even then a Typhlosion is 2HKOed on the switch by SB and OHKOed by Specs... Typhlosion is not a counter at all, at best it is a revenger and it needs to be healthy to do that.

 

[Percussionist]

Speed Boost Yanmega can't OHKO Typhlosion with hidden power and usually investing in bulk is more worthwhile for speed boost. (Since it outspeeds nearly everything at +2 and the bulk comes in handy with surviving priority and other attacks since Speed Boost doesn't have the raw power Tinted Lens has)

How much Speed does Yanmega need to outspeed most notable threats at +1 and +2?

 

[Pombo]

When is the round going to end?

 

[melvni]

When is the round going to end?

RU isn't having suspect tests yet, so it won't be till that happens.

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

Do we know when suspect testing will begin?
And if you're gonna say: "When OU and UU settle down," then when is that going to be?

 

[Demoness]

Do we know when suspect testing will begin?
And if you're gonna say: "When OU and UU settle down," then when is that going to be?

How the hell are we supposed to answer that? OU and UU still have some ridiculous stuff that people think are broken in them, and it could take any amount of time for either tier to finally settle down.

 

[melvni]

Do we know when suspect testing will begin?
And if you're gonna say: "When OU and UU settle down," then when is that going to be?

Just a note: I spoke to Oglemi a while ago and he thinks that RU suspects might start when OU suspects round 5 ends, but for some reason it seems that voting has been held off for a month or so, which is unreasonable even considering the server downtime. He also said that RU analyses will be opened when the first round of RU suspects end, so tough luck for anyone who's still in school who wants to write an RU analysis.

This is from last page (well two pages ago now), so that's the best I can do for you.