It was:
Electabuzz (necessary on all teams)
Not necessary, but ideal for every team, the same way Tauros is in OU.
Vaporeon (ridiculously overpowered, beats Electabuzz one on one, as well as basically every other pokemon)
How are you getting that? Electabuzz uses Thunder Wave and follows with Thunderbolt until Vaporeon is dead. They both 3HKO each other, and after using Thunder Wave, Vaporeon gets the first hit. Across three turns, Vaporeon has a 42% chance to avoid FPing, and Electabuzz about a 50% chance to not get CH'd. That's in Electabuzz's favor.
Vaporeon is good but not
ridiculously overpowered.
I dont know if mimic is glitched on NB, but the one in 4 chance of getting amnesia is actually just bad.
It's glitched; you can't get a move you already have. So for a Golduck with Ice Beam, Surf, Amnesia and Rest, if you use Dewgong (who's immune to Ice) with Ice Beam, Surf, Rest and Mimic, you're guaranteed to get Amnesia.
Not to mention it is slower than Golduck and ties Poli, so you probably have to take two amnesia boosted surfs before you can use amnesia.
The main thing with Vaporeon is being significantly stronger and Dewgong being immune to Freeze. Golduck/Poliwrath Freeze wars are fairly common.
And the issue I really have is the water type centralisation forces it too often into a freeze war. If you can counter waters with more waters, you arent really solving the problem. Sure you could use Dewgong instead of Vaporeon, but really, that's like using Rhydon instead of Golem.
Not really. If you switch to a Physical on Rest (such as Fearow, Raticate, Pinsir, and others), you can finish them off before they wake. I currently just use Golduck for Waters, and Vaporeon users can also use Haze.
Really if you arent using three water types in a UU team, then I think you are doing something pretty silly. In light of this, I am not surprised Charizard isnt overbalancing.
I use 1 and have had a lot of success. Actually, in our UU tournament a long while ago, all of the top three players used different Pokemon and slayed us Water users (when I believed what you believe now).
Here's some logs from Grand Finals. We're actually running a UU tournament currently and the heavy usage of Waters isn't really happening. Come play me and I'll show you. ;D
Pinsir is definitely top tier UU as far as I can tell, the only thing that would make it more of a threat than the waters is if there are three waters on everybodies team.
Tangela, Graveler, Charizard, etc beat Pinsir. He's pretty tricky to setup and he's good, but I wouldn't say top tier UU.
Tangela is top tier too, but really that is more as an Electabuzz counter and status spreader. It just doesnt do enough damage.
It walls a lot of things too, and Tangela/Electabuzz go about even.
Eh, I am going to listen to people, You will just need to be convincing is all. There isnt actually any real process for changing RBY tiers, I dont think I will be able to just make a decision without a lot of support.
Our tiers are pretty solid, but we ban Wrap, so I don't know how they'd be different for you. One thing though is you should make sure everyone knows whether you're making tiers based on OU-effectiveness or if you're trying to make them all competitive.
Am I correct in my understanding that rby2k10 tiers are based on wrap being banned?
Yup.
Do you think this would have an impact on the tiering?
Definitely. Dragonite, Cloyster and Victreebel are all OU, but I don't know about lower tiers with Wrap legal.
Zapdos > Jolteon > Raichu > Electabuzz > Electrode / Magneton
For OU effectiveness only, Zapdos/Jolteon is a bit debatable, though I'd lean on Zapdos. The rest looks good.
Tauros > Snorlax > Persian > Kangaskhan > Dodrio > Raticate > Fearow / Pidgeot / Lickitung > Farfetch'd
Dodrio has a lot more usefulness than Kangaskhan in my opinion. Lickitung can also be a beast with STAB Normal Swords Dance.
Golem / Rhydon > Nidoking > Nidoqueen > Sandslash > Dugtrio > Marowak > Onix - onix is probably worse than graveller..
Graveler is better than Onix, and Dugtrio is third by far for taking out Gengar, doing fair damage to Tauros/Starmie and going about even with Alakazam. Much more useful than the Nidos. Sandslash is overrated and not really worth trying to setup with.
Slowbro > Golduck/Poliwrath
Golduck has Hydro Pump which can help in some cases, but Slowbro is by far better for sure.
Charizard / Moltres > Ninetales > Rapidash > Arcanine / Flareon / Magmar
Ninetales is nice for anti-Jynx, but Fires are pretty horrible in general.
wat
There isnt much in there that is really that controversial. Yes weaker pokes do have some advantages over their stronger counterparts, this isnt saying that the greater poke should always be used over the weaker, just that it almost always should.
I disagree.
So from that hierarchy's perspective, the best cutoff point is to legalise Jolteon.
Jolteon is pretty powerful...
In the fighting tier we could ban champ, and it would be a lot more balanced. But this tier sucks too much to do that.
Machamp is pretty useless in general.
To explain the fire tier decision to ban Zard. It was that the best balance here is between ninetales and the rest. They are all pretty close, but Zard is just way better than all of them.
I disagree. He has Earthquake and Swords Dance, but they're not making him significantly better than the other Fires.
But seriously, Vaporeon is fucking ridiculous. The only thing stopping this from being patently obvious to everyone is the presence of the even more ridiculous amnesia users.
lol
Yes, Wrap and these moves are banned, and I guess it has an impact on the tiering
Waters dominate UU, but Vaporeon not really so much when you realise that amnesiers and Kingler can set up in his face, and although Vap lears haze, it takes damage from Kingler's Slam in hte process and can't really touch amnesiers much meaning hell have to rest against them. Moreover, a predicted haze cures status problems.
This.
tbh, if I battle somebody who uses Wrap, I make sure to remember their name so that I don't find myself in a battle against them again. Really aggravating move to use in competitive RBY.
And this.