ORAS OU Re: Bell, I OU's (ORAS OU Stall)

[Askeia]

Re: Bell, I OU's is obviously a pun on "REBELLIOUS" and "bell" (Bronzong), which translates to being an OU team that features Bronzong.

Introduction:
Hello people, I basically am a very casual player who doesn't usually ladder because there are tons of scrubs up there. Usually I would just battle with a bunch of people which I know, and I'm pretty sure they know what they are doing. Anyways, when ORAS came out to be an extremely hyper offensive metagame, I wanted to challenge myself with Stall to see how it does. And surprise, surprise, turns out fabulous.

Overview:

This team is basically based off the core of Chesnaught + Bronzong which has just amazing type synergy together in general, walling multiple huge threats in the metagame. Charizard X provides lots of useful resistances as well as having extremely good type synergy with Chesnaught as well. Tentacruel rounds off the FWG defensive core as well as providing spin support for Charizard. The last 2 members give more trouble to slower teams since the defensive core takes on most offensive teams really well already. Gliscor is the catch all for slower teams, and finally Clefable is there to provide Wish support and get easy surprise kills against Defoggers in general.

A Detailed Look:

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Spiky Shield
- Leech Seed
- Spikes​

Chesnaught literally only gained Drain Punch in the tier shift, while the threat in the form of Metagross, Salamence, Altaria etc., all pose some threat to it. Yet, I have to say that gaining Drain Punch move than makes up for it, especially when paired with a partner that can take on all of the 3 aforesaid mons. Thanks to its fantastic typing and well distributed stats, Chesnaught is capable of taking on Swampert, Lopunny, Mega Gyarados, Sharpedo, and even some Keldeo if they lack HP Flying. The biggest immediate benefit of using Chesnaught is how it literally makes opposing Ferrothorns into a massive burden for the opponent, easily setting up Spikes on it. Since Ferrothorn literally does nothing on Chesnaught, it can even go for the Leech Seed because the switch is super obvious. These factors combined, means that Sand teams pretty much lost at team preview unless they have something like HP Flying Landorus-T.

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic​

Bronzong is the obligatory second part of the defensive core, covering up Metagross, Altaria, and Salamence that would otherwise pose a problem to Chenaught. In ORAS OU, Bronzong is simply amazing right now. With toxic Toxic easily beats Salamence which is one of the greatest threats out there. Even SubDD versions cannot reliably beat it because its sub is easily broken, you threaten a 2HKO after rocks, while Salamence cannot 2HKO even at +1. Metagross, Diancie and Sceptile struggle to get past it while it can hit back with EQ, Gyro Ball and Gyro Ball respectively. Mega Altaria's is walled unless it has Fire Blast, at which Bronzong still has a good chance of surviving, and KO-ing return with Gyro Ball. SubCM Mega Latias, which is one top tier stallbreaker, cannot set up effectively on Bronzong because it 4x resists Stored Power, and can consistently break its subs, and eventually Toxicing it when it is forced to heal up instead of subbing.

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 148 SpD / 112 Spe
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Roost​

Having 2 mons weak to Fire, it is obligatory to have a Fire resist. Charizard X is the pick here because of its amazing defensive synergy with the 2. Between Chesnaught and Bronzong, Charizard's weakness to EdgeQuake is more than mitigated, while Bronzong takes on all the Dragon attacks it wants. On the other hand, Charizard soaks up burns meant for Chesnaught and Bronzong like no ones business, and handy VoltSwitch resistance makes it less prone to being worn down when against such teams. Charizard also gives stallbreakers a really hard time, being able to switch into Talonflame and Mew easily and knocking them out with 2 Dragon Claws.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 236 SpD / 20 Spe
Calm Nature
- Acid Spray
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off​

Tentacruel is the obligatory spinner for Charizard to switch in more easily. Other than creating a FWG defensive core alongside Chesnaught and Charizard, it's typing has a really fantastic type synergy with Bronzong. Ground and Psychics hits are all taken by Bronzong with little to no problem, while Tentacruel easily switches into any fire attacks. Tentacruel is not meant to be taking physical hits in the first place, so it is built to be specially defensive. Acid Spray is especially useful to defeat CM Clefable, CroCune, and CroBro, which are very real threats for defensive teams in general. Scald is Scald and Knock Off is Knock Off so it is not necessary to explain those 2. Liquid Ooze makes it a good switch into Venusaur, and subsequently getting the Acid Spray on anything else, though Clear Body and Rain Dish both have their fair share of utility, so this part is not really obligatory.

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpD / 96 Spe
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Roost
- Knock Off
- Earthquake​

While the former 4 members covered the most relevant offensive threats, Gliscor just serves as a catch-all for slower teams. Because of its crazy recovery, Gliscor is extremely difficult to take down for any slow teams. Gliscor takes on the very dangerous Landorus with a specially defensive spread, as well as the troublesome Gengar. With a combination of Taunt, Knock Off and Roost, Gliscor effectively shuts down recovery of anything slower than it, which makes life really hard for bulky offense teams in general. When used in conjunction with the hazard support from Chesnaught and Bronzong, Gliscor is capable of racking up a lot of residual damage in opponent teams. Toxic is less necessary because hazard support is generally enough for racking up damage, and Knock Off makes quick work of Gengar, whom otherwise Gliscor cannot touch. Playstyle-wise, Gliscor plays really similar to Charizard, basically playing the same role; i.e. being a Knock Off sponge and to deal with stallbreakers, like Talonflame and Mew, which it actually does better than Charizard. Additionally, it also serves as a status absorber, which is crucial since my team lacks a user of Heal Bell.

Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 244 HP / 160 Def / 104 SpA
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Fire Blast
- Softboiled
- Wish​

This Clefable is an rather unorthodox one, being an offensive CM variant. The reason for an offensive variant is that since Greninja now has Gunk Shot, 96 SpD Lefties Clefable could no longer beat it, so going for an offensive variant that doesn't kill momentum as much is more appealing. Clefable's main purpose in the team is actually as a Wish passer for Bronzong, Chesnaught, and Tentacruel, who can switch into a lot of common switch ins for Clefable, which makes passing wishes to them extremely easy. For a stall oriented team, CM Clefable hardly does anything until late into the game, and for a stall team, the game would have already been decided by then. Hence, I use a Life Orb offensive one, such that it can defeat stuff like Skarmory, and Scizor who likes to come in and Defog. EVs allows it to tank a +2 Zen Headbutt from Mega Gallade, and OHKO in return with Moonblast. This Clefable makes a very effective emergency button to take on dangerous sweepers if it is kept healthy enough, and hence I tend to preserve it if the opponent has something I want to hit with it. An option I am considering is to give it Thunder Wave over Wish or Softboiled so that it can play a bigger role, but it is rather hard to decide which move to forsake.

This basically concludes the RMT. I typed this at midnight, so pardon for any bad phrasing and stuff. Will polish it up tomorrow when I am awake.

 

[Saphi]

Good day sir!

I love the synergy between each member of your team. Thumbs up for using less commonly used pokemons und being so creative. As ORAS is still in it's starting phase and people experimenting left and right, it is hard to define the meta and threats (except for the very obvious new megas) yet. But one thing I can definitely see in your team is a BIG weakness in hard-hitting fire types with the right coverage (ground). The threats I can name is Offensive Mega Charizard X and Mega Camerupt which can potentially 6-0 your entire team with a tiny bit of team support. Now we don't know how these two are going to establish themselves in this new meta but I really feel like you should have an answer for them. Mega Medicham with Ice Punch is also gonna be a pain in the ass to deal with as only Clefable is capable of defeating it.

How to fix that? I can only provide suggestions. A more offensive approach of Landorus-T (instead of Gliscor) could solve the fire/ground problem. Scarfed versions could even beat Medicham but it doesn't fit into your team too well. Also, it makes Wish support even more mandatory and makes you weaker on the physical side. CroBro / CroCune and even AV/Leftovers Slowbro would fit incredible well into your team and mitigate mentioned threats above. If using CroBro you would need to replace Charizard X though. Again, Gliscor is the member to be replaced here, I really feel as if he is the weakest link in your whole team.

Please play around with the mentioned suggestions.

GOOD LUCK!

 

[Askeia]

Certainly agree with Camerupt and offensive Zard X being a problem to the team. Have been experimenting with Mola over Clefable, and is liking it somewhat, and solves some of my Camerupt problems. As for Gliscor, I'm rather reluctant to drop a user of Taunt from my team because that will make dealing with opposing stalls a huge pain.

My concern with Skarmory is that it is too passive, if the opponent figures out that is my only check to Mence or MegaLatias, they can proceed to sack everything else. Zong mitigates that problem because he actually beats both 1 on 1.

Fable has both Wish and Softboiled because I can't think of a 4th move. So I might as well give it Wish to pass on to stuff. WishBoiled is less passive than WishTect, considering I don't have lefties for the protect recovery anw

 

[Kioskate]

You have three users of earthquake so running a fire move on char should be easy if you want it so bad. This means you can sylveon for wish+heal bell.

 

[Albacore]

Hi there! This team looks quite good and I like how creative it is. There are a few things which give you a lot of trouble though :

- You have absolutely nothing that can take on Mega-Medicham. This isn't too much of a concern though, since, given that Mega-Gallade is a thing, no one actually uses it anymore. Speaking of, Mega-Gallade is a big threat to your team too, it can easily sweep you if it gets a Swords Dance off. One fix I would suggest is actually making Clefable more offensive. A spread of 252 HP / 156 Def / 104 SpA maximizes your chances to a) take +2 Zen Headbutt (cannot OHKO, while a +2 Zen Headbutt) and b) OHKO it (guaranteed OHKO) therefore letting you counter it better.
- Knock Off Landorus-I is a big problem. Running more SpD and running Toxic>Acrobatics on Gliscor can help fix that. That that means you deal with Heracross worse since it can now deal more damage to you and SD in your face without having to take Acrobatics, but you can still stall it out with Toxic so it's not too big a deal
- Mega-Camerupt, as people have pointed out, is a big threat for this team too. However, you can play around thta too. Tentacruel, for instance, can take anything that isn't Earth Power and OHKO back with Scald. Charizard-X can take Fire Blast and revenge kill it if it's weakened. I wouldn't worry about MCamerupt too much since it's pretty uncommon. I guess you can run Chansey (or even Blissey since that also beat Landorus-I) over Clefable for this but that kinda removes from the uniqueness of your team so I wouldn't do that.
- Mega Pinsir is also a problem. Once again, since this team was made with the ORAS MMence metagame in mind, you won't find too many Pinsirs running around. This is kinda tricky to deal with without replacing one of your Pokemon. Still, if Pinsir is a concern you can always run Rock Slide on Bronzong. However, it's almost impossible to fit, since you need all 4 of Gyro Ball, Toxic, Stealth Rock. Since you said you were using Wish as filler on Clefable, it might not be a terrible idea to move SR around to either Gliscor or Clefable, free up a moveslot for Rock Slide on Bronzong. But as I said, Pinsir is rare so I wouldn't worry about it, and losing the utility these two Pokemon provide is not really worth being able to beat something as uncommon as Pinsir. What I would worry about is Mega-Salamence. Both the Substitute set and the Fire Blast set pretty much decimate your team. There are 2 things you can do about this 1) You can wait for MMence to be banned or 2) You can run HP Ice on Bronzong. Though doesn't help much against the Fire Blast set, it does let you take on the Sub set, though HP Ice doesn't actually 2HKO so you may need a bit of SpA investment (I would run around 56) Once again, move SR to Clefable to free up the moveslot. Once MMence does get banned and Pinsir becomes relevant again I would revert back to normal or consider giving it Rock Slide over HP Ice as stated previously. Once again, this probably isn't ideal since you kinda need all 4 moves.
- So, the best way to properly deal with these Pokemon (as well as Charizard-X which you basically cannot stop at +1) is by replacing something. You basically have 4 options here : Skarmory, Rhyperior, Hippowdon, and Quagsire. Skarmory deals with MMetagross but loses to XZard. For Rhyperior, it's the other way round. Hippowdon deals with all these threats decently but doesn't really excel (it can potentially lose to both Grass Knot Metagross and XZard if it gets a high roll). Quagsire deals with these threats the best overral, however it can't provide SR support.
Another problem here is what to actually remove for these Pokemon. You could remove Bronzong since it covers pretty much the same threats, but then, you can easily end up losing to Mega-Altaria and have nothing to beat Gardevoir. Running Flare Blitz on XZard would decrease your Gardevoir weakness but even so you'd still have nothing that can reliably switch into it. After thinking about it for a while, I think I figured out the best way to fix it. Running a combination of Jirachi and Hippowdon/Quagsire (if you can fit rocks on Rachi) over Bronong and Clefable both covers these threats and gives you a wishpasser. But although this would make your team "better" I guess, I don't think you really should do that since, once again, that would make it far less unique and it would lose most of its appeal.

Just to be clear, this team isn't bad by any means; it's actually quite good. It's just really difficult to fix its weaknesses without opening up more holes. But that's not really a problem with your team, that's a problem with Stall in general. I think you did a pretty good job with this team overall, even if no matter what, something is going to be able to cut through it.

 

[Askeia]

Hi there! This team looks quite good and I like how creative it is. There are a few things which give you a lot of trouble though :

- You have absolutely nothing that can take on Mega-Medicham. This isn't too much of a concern though, since, given that Mega-Gallade is a thing, no one actually uses it anymore. Speaking of, Mega-Gallade is a big threat to your team too, it can easily sweep you if it gets a Swords Dance off. One fix I would suggest is actually making Clefable more offensive. A spread of 252 HP / 156 Def / 104 SpA maximizes your chances to a) take +2 Zen Headbutt (cannot OHKO, while a +2 Zen Headbutt) and b) OHKO it (guaranteed OHKO) therefore letting you counter it better.
- Knock Off Landorus-I is a big problem. Running more SpD and running Toxic>Acrobatics on Gliscor can help fix that. That that means you deal with Heracross worse since it can now deal more damage to you and SD in your face without having to take Acrobatics, but you can still stall it out with Toxic so it's not too big a deal
- Mega-Camerupt, as people have pointed out, is a big threat for this team too. However, you can play around thta too. Tentacruel, for instance, can take anything that isn't Earth Power and OHKO back with Scald. Charizard-X can take Fire Blast and revenge kill it if it's weakened. I wouldn't worry about MCamerupt too much since it's pretty uncommon. I guess you can run Chansey (or even Blissey since that also beat Landorus-I) over Clefable for this but that kinda removes from the uniqueness of your team so I wouldn't do that.
- Mega Pinsir is also a problem. Once again, since this team was made with the ORAS MMence metagame in mind, you won't find too many Pinsirs running around. This is kinda tricky to deal with without replacing one of your Pokemon. Still, if Pinsir is a concern you can always run Rock Slide on Bronzong. However, it's almost impossible to fit, since you need all 4 of Gyro Ball, Toxic, Stealth Rock. Since you said you were using Wish as filler on Clefable, it might not be a terrible idea to move SR around to either Gliscor or Clefable, free up a moveslot for Rock Slide on Bronzong. But as I said, Pinsir is rare so I wouldn't worry about it, and losing the utility these two Pokemon provide is not really worth being able to beat something as uncommon as Pinsir. What I would worry about is Mega-Salamence. Both the Substitute set and the Fire Blast set pretty much decimate your team. There are 2 things you can do about this 1) You can wait for MMence to be banned or 2) You can run HP Ice on Bronzong. Though doesn't help much against the Fire Blast set, it does let you take on the Sub set, though HP Ice doesn't actually 2HKO so you may need a bit of SpA investment (I would run around 56) Once again, move SR to Clefable to free up the moveslot. Once MMence does get banned and Pinsir becomes relevant again I would revert back to normal or consider giving it Rock Slide over HP Ice as stated previously. Once again, this probably isn't ideal since you kinda need all 4 moves.
- So, the best way to properly deal with these Pokemon (as well as Charizard-X which you basically cannot stop at +1) is by replacing something. You basically have 4 options here : Skarmory, Rhyperior, Hippowdon, and Quagsire. Skarmory deals with MMetagross but loses to XZard. For Rhyperior, it's the other way round. Hippowdon deals with all these threats decently but doesn't really excel (it can potentially lose to both Grass Knot Metagross and XZard if it gets a high roll). Quagsire deals with these threats the best overral, however it can't provide SR support.
Another problem here is what to actually remove for these Pokemon. You could remove Bronzong since it covers pretty much the same threats, but then, you can easily end up losing to Mega-Altaria and have nothing to beat Gardevoir. Running Flare Blitz on XZard would decrease your Gardevoir weakness but even so you'd still have nothing that can reliably switch into it. After thinking about it for a while, I think I figured out the best way to fix it. Running a combination of Jirachi and Hippowdon/Quagsire (if you can fit rocks on Rachi) over Bronong and Clefable both covers these threats and gives you a wishpasser. But although this would make your team "better" I guess, I don't think you really should do that since, once again, that would make it far less unique and it would lose most of its appeal.

Just to be clear, this team isn't bad by any means; it's actually quite good. It's just really difficult to fix its weaknesses without opening up more holes. But that's not really a problem with your team, that's a problem with Stall in general. I think you did a pretty good job with this team overall, even if no matter what, something is going to be able to cut through it.

Thanks Albacore for the long review. Mega Gallade indeed has been a problem for a while, and yet I never found a good enough solution to take it on. Will certainly try out the suggested spread of Clefable though. As for the Mega Pinsir problem, it hasn't been something that I see very often nowadays, so I didn't really consider it in teambuilding. Sub Salamence though, hasn't actually been a problem of those I have actually faced. If it gets a Sub on the switch to Zong and a DD next turn, Gyro Ball will constantly break its sub. At that point in time, Mence is basically forced to Roost every other turn or else Gyro Ball would KO. If it tries to go for the second Sub, then I can safely go for the third Gyro Ball and then Toxic on the forced Roost on the subsequent turn. It is hard to describe in words though, but I never had any problem with Sub Mence so far. FB Mence and Refresh Mence are more of a problem though, but both are less common than Sub ones as of what I have met. Fire Blast Mence in particular usually would not get a DD up that early so Fable can tank a return and OHKO it in very emergency cases. And the offensive Zard X problem is not a overly huge problem either because it does have a rather hard time setting up a DD against anything that is not my own Xard or Tentacruel since everything else can either cripple him with a status or something like that.

As for the Landorus problem. I knew off the top of my head that Gliscor would take on something huge for the team but it never came to me what that something was. And indeed it was Landorus. Though Landorus isn't very common now with Landorus-T running around ever so often, but it is indeed still relevant so I am changing Gliscor to a more specially defensive one.

EDIT: Ran some calcs, Clef would need a spread of 244 HP / 160 Def / 104 SpA to beat Gallade, and not 252 HP / 156 Def / 104 SpA because the latter sums up to 512 EVs.

EDIT 2: Played some games with said Clef, still could tank the hits it was meant to tank, and the 104 SpA allows it to KO Skarm more reliably, so replaced my current Fable with this one. And also might be considering giving it Thunder Wave idk. But if I drop Wish I will lose a wish passer.