[Reffing 202] Approver Birkal v Student jayelt413

Birkal · Dec 21, 2015

Noivern @ Expert Belt

JJayyFeather · Dec 21, 2015

The Box: Shadow Sneak (Noivern) | Knock Off (Marowak) | Ice Punch (Marowak)
IF Noivern is under the effects of P/E when you are to act A1, THEN Phantom Force (Noivern) instead
IF Marowak is not holding an item AND is to use a Damaging Ground Move AND not a combination AND you are the target, THEN Phantom Force (Marowak) that action and push back
IF Marowak is under the effects of P/E when you are to target it AND you do not have a substitute up, THEN Substitute 15 and push back

Bae: Energy Ball (Marowak) | Air Slash (Marowak) | Energy Ball (Marowak)
IF Marowak is under the effects of P/E when you are to target it, THEN Nasty Plot and push back
IF Marowak uses Endure, THEN initiate action string starting on that action Encore (Marowak) | Substitute 15 | Sky Attack (Marowak)
IF Kitsunoh is the target of a Damaging Ground Move from Marowak AND Kitsunoh's second substitution is not going to activate, THEN Protect (Kitsunoh) and push back [Non-Consecutive]

Birkal · Dec 23, 2015

Zoroark @ Expert Belt

Not: Taunt (Togekiss) | Knock Off (Kitsunoh) | Dark Pulse (Kitsunoh)

Tibia: Endure | Earthquake | Stone Edge (Togekiss)

JJayyFeather · Dec 24, 2015

Birkal [XBBAA]

Venusaur @ Venusaurite (3 HP, 36 EN)
Noivern @ Expert Belt (1 HP, 78 EN)

Jayelt413 [XAAOO] - Stealth Rock

64 | 34
56 | 55
Ghost/Steel | Fairy/Flying
Frisk/Limber/Cursed Body | Hustle/Serene Grace/Super Luck
Rare Candy | Scope Lens
5/3/1/3/127 [+19%] | 1/3/6/4/80
None | None

NOTE: Frisk negates Non-Rank changes only
NOTE: If any part of a sub is illegal, it never activates
NOTE: Even if the targeted mon is Enduring, always roll for the effects of moves

Calculations said:
Action 1
Speed Order: Marowak > Kitsunoh > Zoroark > Togekiss

Marowak used Endure! [15 EN]

Kitsunoh used Shadow Sneak on Zoroark! [3 EN]
Crit [625]: 5772 NO
(4+3+1+6)*0.67 = 9.33

Zoroark used Taunt on Togekiss! [10 EN]

Togekiss used Energy Ball on Marowak! [7 EN]
SpD Drop [2000]: 4102 NO
(9+3)*1.5 = 18

Action 2
Speed Order: Kitsunoh > Zoroark > Togekiss > Marowak

Kitsunoh used Knock Off on Marowak! [7 EN]
(10+1.5)*1 = 11.5 = 2
-Thick Club [Marowak]

Zoroark used Knock Off on Kitsunoh! [6 EN]
Crit [625]: 8367 NO
Cursed Body [3000]: 864 YES
(10+3+3)*1.5 = 24
-Rare Candy [Kitsunoh]

Togekiss used Air Slash on Marowak! [5 EN]
Hit [9500]: 1468 YES
Flinch [6000]: 5167 YES
Endured!

Marowak flinched!

Action 3
Speed Order: Kitsunoh > Zoroark > Togekiss > Marowak

Kitsunoh used Ice Punch on Marowak! [6 EN]
Freeze [1000]: 944 YES (8284 | 2a)
Endured!

Zoroark used Dark Pulse on Kitsunoh! [5 EN]
Crit [625]: 8045 NO
(8+3+3)*1.5 = 21

Togekiss used Energy Ball on Marowak! [7 EN]
SpD Drop [2000]: 7387 NO
Endured!

Marowak is frozen!
-1 Freeze Counter (1 Left) [Marowak]

Birkal [XBBAA]

Venusaur @ Venusaurite (3 HP, 36 EN)
Noivern @ Expert Belt (1 HP, 78 EN)

Jayelt413 [XAAOO] - Stealth Rock

Birkal · Dec 24, 2015

Height @ Venusaurite

JJayyFeather · Dec 24, 2015

Who comes out?

Birkal · Dec 24, 2015

Tibia.

JJayyFeather · Dec 24, 2015

ehh
No Counterswitch

JJayyFeather · Dec 27, 2015

Birkal

Birkal · Dec 28, 2015

JJayyFeather · Dec 28, 2015

Kitsunoh: Will-o-Wisp (Venusaur) | Iron Head (Zoroark) | Meteor Mash (Zoroark)
IF Zoroark is KO'd when you are to act, THEN Iron Defense

Togekiss: Dazzling Gleam | Aura Sphere (Zoroark) | Dazzling Gleam
IF Zoroark is KO'd when you are to act, THEN Nasty Plot
=========================================================

Birkal [XBBAA]

Noivern #Expert Belt (1 HP, 78 EN)
Marowak #None (1 HP, 56 EN, Frozen 1a)

Jayelt413 [XAAOO] - Stealth Rock

NOTE: Zoroark's Imprison A1 fails considering in only knows 1 of the 3 moves it tried to imprison
NOTE: Togekiss's KO sub never activates because it can't use Nasty Plot due to Taunt

Pre Round
Venusaur mega evolves!

Action 1
Speed Order: M-Venusaur > Kitsunoh > Zoroark > Togekiss

M-Venusaur used Endure! [15 EN]

Kitsunoh uses Will-o-Wisp on Venusaur! [7 EN]

Zoroark used Imprison! [8 EN]
Failed!

Togekiss used Dazzling Gleam! [5 EN]
Venusaur: (6+3+3+1.5)/1.5 = 9 = 2 (Endured!)
Zoroark: (6+3+3+6)*1.5 = 27

-2 HP [M-Venusaur]
M-Venusaur was KO'd!

Action 2
Speed Order: Kitsunoh > Zoroark > Togekiss

Kitsunoh used Iron Head on Zoroark! [5 EN]
Crit [625]: 9715 NO
Flinch [3000]: 2415 YES
(8+3+1+6)*1 = 18

Zoroark flinched!

Togekiss used Aura Sphere on Zoroark! [6 EN]
(8+3+6)*1.5 = 25.5

Action 3
Speed Order: Kitsunoh > Zoroark > Togekiss

Kitsunoh used Meteor Mash on Zoroark! [6 EN]
Crit [625]: 2700 NO
Atk Raise [2000]: 196 YES
(9+3+1+6)*1 = 19
Zoroark was KO'd!

Togekiss used Dazzling Gleam! [5 EN]
But there was no target...

Birkal [XBBXX]

Noivern #Expert Belt (1 HP, 78 EN)
Marowak #None (1 HP, 56 EN, Frozen 1a)

Jayelt413 [XAAOO] - Stealth Rock

=====================================
Kitsunoh: Fake Out (Noivern) | Shadow Sneak (Noivern) | Fake Out (Noivern)
IF Noivern is under the effects of P/E when you are to target it, THEN Redirect to Marowak
IF Marowak is under the effects of Endure, THEN Will-o-Wisp (Marowak) that action and push back [ONCE]
IF Noivern is KO'd, THEN Redirect to Marowak

Togekiss: Extremespeed (Noivern) | Dazzling Gleam | Extremespeed (Noivern)
IF Noivern is under the effects of P/E when you are to target it, THEN Redirect to Marowak
IF Marowak is under the effects of P/E when you are to target it, THEN Chill and push back
IF Noivern is KO'd, THEN Redirect to Marowak

JJayyFeather · Jan 4, 2016

Birkal friendly reminder since you just got off of LoA

Birkal · Jan 5, 2016

Tibia: Fire Punch (Kitsunoh) | Fire Punch (Kitsunoh) | Fire Punch (Kitsunoh)

Moog: Dodge | Protect | Razor Wind

JJayyFeather · Jan 6, 2016

Birkal [XAAXX]

Noivern #Expert Belt (1 HP, 78 EN)
Marowak #None (1 HP, 56 EN, Frozen 1a)

Jayelt413 [XAAOO] - Stealth Rock

NOTE: Dodge is not a P/E move, and thus doesn't trigger the substitutions of Kitsunoh and Togekiss

Action 1
Noivern used Dodge [5 EN]

Kitsunoh used Fake Out [4 EN]
Noivern attempts to dodge: 10 + (142-127)/5 + 23 = 36% Flat Accuracy Drop
100% - 36% + 19% = 83% Hit Chance
Hit [8300]: 5721 YES
Crit [625]: 5535 NO
(4+6-4.5)*1 = 5.5
Noivern was KO'd!

Togekiss used Extremespeed [6 EN]
Hit [8000]: 91 YES
(8+3+1.5-6)*1 = 6.5
Marowak was KO'd!

Birkal [XAAXX]

Noivern #Expert Belt (1 HP, 78 EN)
Marowak #None (1 HP, 56 EN, Frozen 1a)

Jayelt413 [XAAOO] - Stealth Rock

19 | 34
18 | 14
Ghost/Steel | Fairy/Flying
Frisk/Limber/Cursed Body | Hustle/Serene Grace/Super Luck
N/A | Scope Lens
4/3/1/3/127 [+19%] | 1/3/6/4/80
Fine | Fine

Battle Over!
======
Even though Gardevoir and Cyclohm never actually battled, I can still equip them with items. They both take EXP Shares.
======
Rewards

Birkal ~ 4 [Base] + 4 [Noivern] + 6 [Venusaur] = 14 CC, 5 UC
Marowak ~ 3 MC
Zoroark ~ 3 MC
Infernape ~ 3 MC

jayelt413 ~ 4 CC, 21 UC
Greninja ~ 3 MC
Togekiss ~ 3 MC
Gardevoir ~ 4 MC
Cyclohm ~ 3 MC, 1 AC
Kitsunoh ~ 3 MC

EDIT: Removed all the KOC from this, just remembered that self-refs don't yield KOC. Also gave Birkal his tutor counters

Birkal · Jan 6, 2016

To begin, a quote from the Reffing 202 page:

The Tutor will be advised to use all the tricks at his disposals, up to and including complex substitutions, strange combos, weird attack interactions and even flavor-based maneuvers. Their goal isn't to win, but to see the extent of the apprentice's capacites at reffing.

My goal as a referee is never to win, but to throw a bunch of weird things your way. For the most part, jayy succeeded, particularly when it came to goofy substitutions. However, I'd be amiss if I didn't discuss how much haxed played into this battle. While I don't think this should prevent jayy from becoming white-listed, it was certainly worrisome that I couldn't test a lot of key mechanics due to the amount of hax that swung his way. For example:

Fury Swipes missed on R1, preventing testing of multi-hit moves.
Marowak flinch on R4 prevented re-testing of spread mechanics.
Zoroark flinch on R5 prevented testing of stat lowering mechanics.

Furthermore, there are still some lingering miscalculations. ~~Bide calculation on R1 was wrong (not 6en)~~, while he messed up Mach Punch combo on R3 AND did not factor that into Togekiss' energy (which would have made it lose 9en more). There may be some more out there, I am not sure.

I'm calling in Frosty to make the final conclusion here. Personally, I don't think these mistakes should outweigh his ability to be a whitelisted ref. I'd recommend jayy for the position, but if you feel he's not ready, I can also accept that.

Frosty · Jan 6, 2016

I will get to this at some point. Probably by the end of the month depending on how other things go.

But before anything I gotta give a warning: don't go overboard. You are starting to miss DQs due to taking too much to ref. That will bee taken into consideration. If I feel that white-list will be detrimental to your reffing, I won't do it. Just food for thought while you wait forever until I get to this :).

Frosty · Jan 11, 2016

Let's roll

Timeliness:

3 days: 1
DQ: none

good. I find it amusing how people are putting DQ=48 when it is supposed to be 72. Well I guess making it shorter helps escaping the cut.

Also, you are lucky Birkal is a classy john. If I were the tutor I would probably warn you a couple times for all those tags 9_9

anyway moving on...

Battle Mistakes:

1) I can't think on any situation I wouldn't use subs ordering first on DOUBLES. Keep in mind that dreadful playing is grounds to not passing 202. And can turn a match claiming void. Keep it in mind.
2) This is really pedantic and I won't count towards you mistake totals, but "Kitsunoh is the target of a Damaging Ground Move from Marowak" can be very misleading. Because Kit being THE target is different than being A target. I mean, if the user of the sub were a grounded mon, then you would probably think twice before passing protect on say earthquake. On that situation it would make more sense to limit the sub to one-target moves, since they don't come with risks the user will have to take. Point being: if you want to say sole target of a move, say "sole target of a move". If you want to say a target of a move (that may have more than one target), say "a target". But avoid using "the target" on doubles+ as it can be interpreted as "the only target" on a situation you didn't want it. I know I would interpret it that way, but I am pedantic, so take it with a pinch of salt.

Ref Mistakes:
1) Handbook: Damaging Evasive moves consume half of the energy cost on the evasive part and half on the damaging part, unless otherwise stated in the move description. Charge moves consume all of the energy cost on the damaging part.
2) Infernape is a Normal-type with Rare Candy, giving it +2 BAP on its STAB attacks, specifically Fake Out.
3) Infernape doesn't learn Ice Punch.
4) Dazzling Gleam doesn't hit teammates.
5) All spread moves need to have a x0.75 modifier to BAP.
6) Forgot stab reduction on taunt
7) K, so... Imprison needs up to 3 moves to work, or it fails. It had 3 moves just fine. The problem is that they are illegal and you can't imprison illegal moves. Do note that "won't work" and "can't be done" are different. The first results in fail (which is what you did) and the second results in struggle due to illegal action (which is what you were supposed to do). Rule of thumb: If the handbook or NDA says it "won't work" or "fails" or stuff like that, then it fails and nothing happens. If they say "can't" or when they say nothing on what happens if something off is done, the mon will struggle.

Doesn't matter:
1) You don't need rolls on events that are 100% guaranteed that will or won't happen. This might seem pointless, but if you take too much stuff to ref, small things like that can speed up your work significantly. The same goes for writing out calcs against mons with immunity to said typing -_-.
2) again, pedantic. This wasn't a mistake on the battle per se. Just a note you wrote and I need to clarify. That "IF Marowak uses Endure, THEN initiate action string starting on that action Encore (Marowak) | Substitute 15 | Sky Attack (Marowak)" sub didn't activate under taunt because you couldn't use that action string, not because part of the sub is illegal. If the part of the sub you are to apply is legal, then it activates just fine. This is spliting hairs, but can make a difference. I mean, if your sub were "IF X is under the effects of endure THEN Encore on the first instance this happens, 15 Substitute on the second and sky attack on the third", it wouldn't activate on the first action, because encore wouldn't be a valid outcome. Same with the second action. BUT on A3, the third instance of the mon being under endure, the outcome (Sky Attack) is very possible and in that case rules 2 and 3 apply and the sub activates just fine, since the "result of the activation" is very possible, even if there are illegal fluff there not important in that specific situation.

Verdict: K, so. Inexperience played some role here. But not as much as I expected it to. You managed to hold your own for the most part and, while there are some errors, they weren't THAT game-breaking. Some understanding of substitutions is required, but that is due to inexperience and no one knows our sub rules with any degree of reliability, so don't fuss over it too much.

Watch out what you do. Check the NDA and the Handbook as you will still need them close for the most part. Check on IRC if anything is dubious and you should be good to go. Consider yourself white-listed. Mind you, I will look closely at your battles, so I suggest you don't relax thinking you pass and let the ball drop. You aren't in that stage yet. But you are in a stage where your reffing (probably done after due diligence) is reliable enough for me to allow you to self-ref. with moderation as I don't want it to affect the quality here, k?

Also, keep in mind what I said on the post above. If you DQ while self-reffing once I will be very pissed. Twice and I will cut you off. Also if you start to DQ constantly on other matches due to prioritizing self-refs, I will also be very pissed, k?

godspeed etc.

[Reffing 202] Approver Birkal v Student jayelt413

Birkal

We have the technology.

JJayyFeather

Drifting~

Birkal

We have the technology.

JJayyFeather

Drifting~

Birkal

We have the technology.

JJayyFeather

Drifting~

Birkal

We have the technology.

JJayyFeather

Drifting~

JJayyFeather

Drifting~

Birkal

We have the technology.

JJayyFeather

Drifting~

JJayyFeather

Drifting~

Birkal

We have the technology.

JJayyFeather

Drifting~

Birkal

We have the technology.

Frosty

=_=

Frosty

=_=