Reflecting on BW and Looking Ahead to Gen VI - SEE POST #508

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Huntofthelion, Jan 8, 2013.

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  1. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal Intelligence is a curse.
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    Those prospects are scary. They don't seem like good defensive types but its quite offensive! I still say Scizor is a good overall check to the type as well as Jira and Venu, while the Lati Twins might be able to do something (is it weak to psychic or is this only offensively speaking?)

    Edit; got link nvm on Lati mention. Also, for your sash smeargle set, explosion works to fuck Tenta and Forrey while doing 66% to bulky ThundyT and effectively smashing dnites multiscale
  2. ChaosAkita

    ChaosAkita

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    I love the idea of Poke-amie but I hope it does't affect link battles. Although with in-game Pokemon being as easy as it is, I don't feel like players need the boost at all, but I guess that is another discussion.
  3. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan stay stay stay
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    tl;dr
    Is eliminating only broken threats more important, or is creating a diverse metagame important, even if it's an "artificial" metagame?
  4. IcyMan28

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    Obviously the Fairy type is a huge introduction, but I don't think Dragons will have the cataclysmic fall every is implying. Choiced dragons will need to play a bit more carefully, much like choice EQ users, but outside of that they do have other options. Sylveon came into Latios' LO Draco Meteor? That's fine, it'll just switch to Psyshock while not fearing Fairy attacks much at all. Garchomp has a viable alternative STAB to work with. Other examples apply I'm sure.

    While it's obviously not possible to predict too far ahead, I could think of a few pokemon that could spare a slot for Poison or Steel in their moveslot. Gengar could easily run Sludge Bomb (if Blissey becomes Fairy type, this is actually advantageous), as could Venusaur or pokemon with a spare special slot. Iron Tail, an otherwise unimportant move, is also fairly well distributed. Who knows what other moves will be released?

    Now for the pokemon. Fairy-type Wigglytuff will be unimportant and probably STILL outclassed by Clefable, who I think will inevitable become Fairy-type. Water / Fairy Azumarill is amazing.

    Other potential reclassifications I could see are Celebi becoming Grass / Fairy, or even Steel / Fairy Jirachi.
  5. TLo

    TLo

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    You don't think Fairy type will have a major impact on dragons?
    Look at Azelf. If Azurill gets Fairy typing and the Lake Trio doesn't then something is wrong.
    WHEN Azelf gets Fairy typing, what happens when he outspeeds EVERY OU dragon in the current metagame and now serves as the greatest dragon check of all time? Guarded with Levitate he can easily come in on a dragon that's choice locked onto EQ because said dragon was trying to kill a steel type.

    They released like 5 pokemon with Fairy typing, who knows what other pokemon could possibly wreak havoc on the dragons.
  6. X5Dragon

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    Well we never did anything to make lesser used playstyles be more competitive so I don't know why that would change next gen, although stall with the new fairy type should get more boosted if anything.

    Dragons will just switch to DD sets and Life Orbs/EBs along with including a powerful neutral move or Steel move coverage, Dragonite has both Iron Tail and Iron Head for example.
  7. Katakiri

    Katakiri ディアンシー! ディアンシー...ディアンシー!
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    So far, it's looking like Fairy + Levitate/Flying-typing is going to be pretty amazing. Something that could come in on Garchomp with complete immunity to both its STABs just sounds delicious. From something like Salamence, a neutral Fire Blast is the most you'd have to worry about. That alone would change entire movesets but beyond that, we have Gardevoir walling and crippling Lati@s, Azumarill blocking Dragonite's Fire Punches, on top of any airborne Fairy walling Garchomp and pals. We have relatively hard counters to all of the most common Dragons in just 3 type combinations. That's meta-game-defining stuff.

    People talk about how we could end up with no useful Fairy-types but making a useful Fairy-type is fairly simple even without digging into the pool of legendary Pokemon that may have a small chance.
    Take Mismagius for example, a Pokemon that is decently likely to net itself a Fairy-typing. Ghost/Fairy Mismagius is immune to Dragon, Fighting, and Ground while out-pacing Garchomp and having a STAB that's SE against Dark-type Pursuit users. A nearly unresisted STAB combo doesn't hurt either. From sub-par Ghost to arguably the best Ghost-type in OU all with the addition of one typing.
    Another one? Granbull. Normal/Fairy-type with Intimidate, great coverage, and the Attack to abuse it. That Intimidate would make Defensive Granbull a tough foe for physical Dragons.
    One more? Absol. A Sucker Punch that powerful isn't to be taken lightly even if Dragons want to switch to their coverage moves. Fairy/Dark has near perfect coverage. The Lati are crying.
    Bonus one? Sure, why not? Milotic. Water/Fairy. That one explains itself. It's even neutral to Steel. Gg, Dragonite & Mence.
    I could name off 5 or 6 other winners but my point is that Fairy doesn't have to be slapped onto something like Chansey, Cresselia, or Azelf to shake OU. If it's not a brand new Pokemon, I'd bet it's likely a UU or RU Pokemon that becomes the premier OU Fairy-type.

    Because of Fairy-type, Dragons have a big issue that will entirely change how they play. But at the same time, they can't change how they play all that much because Steel-types still exist and they will likely still be used for way more than just Dragon-checking. Dragonite can run Iron Head on his DD Set but now he has to choose between Fire Punch, Earthquake, or Superpower which is basically making Dragonite choose which Steel-type entirely walls him that day; Jirachi, Skarm, or Heatran? Could be all of them in Rain.

    But Fairy is just as much and offensive typing as it is defensive. Even non-Fairy Pokemon might make use of Fairy coverage. Fairy/Ghost coverage is pretty nice. Heatran, Aria Meloetta (as if Girafarig is relevant), and Litleo are the only Pokemon I can think of that resist the combination while Fairy hits Ghost's Dark-type resists Super Effectively and Ghost hits Fairy's Psychic-type resists SE. Fairy/Dark is similar as Fairy covers Dark's Fighting- and Dark-type resists.
    Pokemon like Zoroark would appreciate HP Fairy or let's say "Fairy Ball" as a way to hit Dragons and Dark-types without having to split that coverage between HP Ice & Focus Blast which leaves more room for Flamethrower or w/e it wants to run.
    Something like Stoutland would love to have a move like, let's say "Fairy Tail" (GF is not above names that bad) to replace Ice Fang for Dragons while also hitting Fighting-types and Tyranitar SE all with the same move.

    But these are just thoughts that cross my mind because I have nothing better to do this late. Venting and all that.
    Fairy-type Hypno. Try to sleep at night. As if Sylveon's flesh-ribbons weren't enough.
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  8. Shokwav

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    I'm just glad Normal isn't (offensively speaking) strictly outclassed by Dragon anymore.
  9. ChaosAkita

    ChaosAkita

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    Do you guys think the addition of Fairy means that Gamefreak is starting to care more about balance?
  10. Katakiri

    Katakiri ディアンシー! ディアンシー...ディアンシー!
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    They certainly have to with VGC being as big as it is. There's also the fact that their servers are always collecting data and they use that data to craft the next games. Aside from Doubles & 3v3, they still see that "Free Battles" are very much 6v6 Battles and I would go so far as to tell you that they know the gist of our tiers as well. When they look at all that data showing Politoed being used more than Kyorge or Arceus, you'd better believe that they look for a reason. Whether or not they know of Smogon's existence, they certainly know there's a force in place that restricts those Uber Pokemon so they may be balancing as such.

    Also, I'm completely convinced Game Freak has someone that at least keeps tabs on Smogon just by the fact that Honedge not only exists, but it was given its own reveal trailer.
    The fabled Steel/Ghost-mon EXISTS, folks! Not quite Kitsunoh, but good enough!
    3D battles, a hard nerf to Dragons & Fighting-types, a Steel/Ghost-type, AND they still haven't released Shadow Tag Chandy, I mean it must be the Year of Jirachi because all of our collective wishes are coming true.
    Spirit and Princess Bubblegum like this.
  11. Dem Mudkipz

    Dem Mudkipz

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    Wishlist of gen VI

    1. Instant trick room ability. With this , it gives a big advantage to slow pokemon such as forretress, and shuckle. That will allow them to set up entry hazards or bulk up a little.

    2. I dont think this will happen but a combination of 3 types. Positive thing about this : Less supereffectives to be 4x( such as bug, steel, ground.

    3. Able to "copy" moves and turn it into the users primary type, or secondary. Ex. Mudkip "copies" Tepigs flamethrower, becomes (Water) flamethrower, since mudkips primary type is water. If dual type the user should be able to choose the move type.

    4. New type combos ( I agree with articblast) about ghost/steel, there should also be a combo of fire/water.

    5. We should be able to choose a second region to travel like on a boat. Ex Kalos 1st region, hoenn 2nd region, this was one of the best ideas in HG/SS

    6. Moar shiny interactable pokemon like shiny gyrados, and haxorus.

    7. Something similar to the pokewalker and dream world. Or they'll just keep the dream world with the fascinating DW abilities.

    8. Finally last one. More PC boxes unlike BW/BW 2 there should be enough for every single pokemon including NFE's.

    Thank u for reading, really looking forward for what gamefreak is gonna do
  12. HolyAvatar

    HolyAvatar

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    More gen 6 news:
    Xerneas is fairy. His ability reinforces fairy type moves for himself and other pokemon, don't know if it's like weather or only for duo/tri battling. He has a signature fairy move.
    Yvetail is dark/flying. His ability reinforces dark type moves for himself and other pokemon, don't know if it's like weather or only for duo/tri battling. He has a signature dark move.

    Xerneas could be very good in ubers.
    Yvetail has a 4x rock weakness and no regenerator. Depending on stats/movepool, this may drop him to OU.
  13. vyomov

    vyomov

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    How does Yveltal have a 4x rock weakness??? Dark isn't weak to Rock so ...
  14. HolyAvatar

    HolyAvatar

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    Well it was just waking up, I'm dumb.
  15. X5Dragon

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    With regards to trick room and gravity the best you can hope for is rock items that make them last 8 turns although making new abilities for insta rooms/gravity is interesting and certainly doable...

    In which case one must ask does that stack with other auto abilities? Can we have Auto Trick + Drought teams or Gravity + Sand Stream?
  16. Plastic Moose

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    Some of things that I really want from gen 6 are:
    1. A reliable spinner for sun teams. Sun teams are so powerful offensively, but their strongest abusers are stealth rock weak; with some (Volcarona and Moltres) being 4x weak! If Sun teams had a good spinner (donphan is crap) then these pokemon would be completely unstoppable
    2. A viable user of Harvest. LumRest with Harvest is great defensively, but the only users are Tropius and Exeggutor. if a good Harvest user existed, sun stall would be far more viable then it is now, and would be a reason to run it over rain stall
    3. A ghost/steel pokemon. I know lots of people say this, but it would be an amazing addition to stall and balanced teams. without the fighting weakness, it would be a great addition, bringing down the viability of the plethora of fighting types, as well as helping against steel types.
    knowing Nintendo, these things probably won't happen, but if it did I would be over the moon
  17. vyomov

    vyomov

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    Honedge(http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Honedge_(Pokémon))
    Your dream just came true
  18. MikeDawg

    MikeDawg

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    I didn't know where to put this observation so here seems like a good place.

    In X+Y, dragons get incredibly nerfed by fairy.

    Even if fairies aren't run frequently, lest the typing ends up canceling outrage, dragons now pretty much have to use dragon claw, otherwise they risk 3 turns of inactivity while they are locked into outrage.

    Of course one can just make sure to eliminate fairies prior to outraging, but then the dragon type is practically useless for the whole match.

    80 bp is a huge gain over 130 bp (for the other end of the dragons) and maybe it won't be as neccesary to stack steel types (though dmeteor spam still sucks kind of)
  19. Homeslice

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    Dragons don't become incredibly nerfed... If I remember right, they're weak to Steel moves?
    Magnezone just has a bigger role now in that the player also needs to click Flash Cannon instead of Thunderbolt and HP Fire.
    And who's to say Fairies are as good as they're putting them out to be? What if they're primarily defensive and once they get out there they can't do much to them besides spam Toxic? We don't know what OU fairies will look like yet, but as far as I'm concerned 4Drag2Mag might turn into 3Drag2Mag and another steel or something. I can't think of a clever name. Poison types do just the same, Gengar can just spam Sludge Bomb.
  20. Lord of Bays

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    Well, we know so far that at least Gardevoir, who has a very appreciable 125 Special Attack is becoming part-Fairy. Marill is also getting Fairy, and if that carries over to Azumarill then that's another hard-hitter. Sylveon will also likely carry the trend of Eeveelutions having those base 130 and 110 stats (thought we don't know where those are going) so it could potentially be hitting hard. In my opinion, this could mean the end of Choiced Dragons. I mean, I know Choice Specs/Scarf Latios is the only one that's really common nowadays, but an immunity to Dragon no matter what other factors is still absolutely huge.
  21. IcyMan28

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    I don't know about the rest of you but I'm really liking the idea of a Ghost / Fairy pokemon; it would almost certainly be OU. As it is, Mismagius is already a perfect candidate with Misdreavus being based off a banshee, and I think if it were to become Ghost/Fairy it would be the premiere OU Ghost. A whopping 4 immunities (thanks to levitate), along with some more niche resistances like Bug and Normal are fantastic. And if the other rumors are true, Missy will have super-effective coverage on Fighting and Dark types as well, making it a difficult pokemon to trap with Pursuit. A simple set of Sub / CM or NP / Shadow Ball / Fairy Attack would have stellar coverage, allowing Mismagius to check a wide range of pokemon while still maintaining its own offensive presence. Enough speed to outpace Garchomp is nice too.
  22. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Don't forget about Banded Dragonite (one of the best Choiced Dragons in OU), Scarf Moxie Mence, Kyurem-B's Choiced sets, and Banded Chomp will take a huge hit if 2-3 Fairy-types make it to OU. IF, of course, Fairy is indeed immune to the Dragon-type. I don't think they'll be non existent, but they'll have to resort to a more late game sweeping role. Salamence, Dragonite, and Kyurem-B will probably be affected the most out of all the Choiced Dragons, because they depend on their Dragon STAB more than some of the other Dragon-types in OU. Garchomp has EQ, Latios has Psyshock, Hydreigon has Dark Pulse, etc.
  23. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    Dragon users are pretty much hoping at this point for good trappers, namely Shadow Chandy to be released early. I guess Goth is another good option, there is still hope...
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  24. MicfiJasan

    MicfiJasan

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    Just thinking about the addition of Fairy-type and how I would have preferred modifying the type chart like they did for GSC, and I realized it's still technically possible for them to do both. If they want to nerf the Dragon like they nerfed Psychic, then they would probably want to give something like Ice-types a Dragon resist, since Dragons are still really powerful. This is also assuming the other weaknesses/resists/etc. are true. I know this is pretty heavy speculation, but I felt it fits in with the discussion and not out of the question given GameFreak did this last time a new type was added.
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